New diabetic dosing help

I’m returning after many years with a new diabetic. Haven’t developed a new spreadsheet as Petunia was just DX today. I forgotten most of what I knew many years ago when I was here with Thumper GA. She got her first dose of Pro Zinc tonight. We started with 1 unit. PMPS was 295 her +2 is 68 I gave her some gravy food but I’ve really forgotten the protocol. Going to test again in 15 mins. Any advice?

The attached SS is not for my current cat! I’ve got some updating to do!

 

WELCOME BACK! Sorry for the reason though. What meter are you using human or pet?

 

Human....Relion

 

good I'm not a dosing veteran so wait for more replies you may want to read here to get the hang of things again:

PROZINC DOSING METHODS

 

Retested 20 minutes later she is 66. She had maybe 1/2 can of FF gravy lovers after +2

 

@Deb & Wink is our prozync pro!

so it depends on whether you’re following SLGS or the modified. But if you’re going with SLGS she just earned a .25 reduction on her dose moving forward. You’re stalling without food right?

 

Well I’m not entirely sure what you are asking me. This is her first shot.

 

So now she’s going down with food. Can you retest in 30 minutes? I’d also update your thread title to help 66 @+2.5 down from 68 or something like that so members know to reply

 

You said you didn’t remember the protocol. The protocol is called SLGS. Check the link JT posted.

 

Not sure who is around to help

@Panic
@Bron and Sheba (GA) @Red & Rover (GA) @Chris & China (GA)

 

@Red & Rover is
or was
I have to get dinner on bbl

 

Yes, the Prozinc dosing methods were recently gone through and updated. It is closer to the Lantus protocols now with a Start Low Go Slow (SLGS) method and a modified for Prozinc Tight Regulation (TR) method.

 

Keep feeding a tsp of high-carb food every 20 minutes until she's over 90. Don't let her gorge herself early in the cycle, she needs to be hungry enough to keep eating if she keeps dropping.
Is the gravy food 18+%?

I'd reduce down to 0.75u next time, that's a steep and early drop.

 

I just tried to get some KARO in her...not very successful, she maybe got a teaspoon.

I THINK this gravy food was listed in Dr Lisa’s list as 13 carbs.

 

I had a feeling I should have started less than 1 unit!

 

Welcome back, Barbara and sorry you are back.

Since you do not have a spreadsheet, we'll have to keep track. You can also edit your thread so anyone looking at the threads will see what's happening. It's a busy time in Health right now.
To edit your title, go up to the top right hand corner of this thread and click on Thread Tools, then Edit Title.

First shot – 1 unit Prozinc
Human meter – Relion
PMPS 295
+2 68 (fed aprox 1/2 can gravy (13%)
+2.3 66
+2.5?? 1 tsp karo

 

I didn’t get the stalking part. I see now it should have been stalling!

 

It's the gravy in the food where the carbs are.
Press the lid down on the can to push the gravy to the top.

 

You are the second person within days to have a newly diabetic cat go from a high number straight to a low number.

Are there any underlying conditions?

Was Petunia (great name, btw) given steroids for anything?

You've got this, Barbara.

I didn't get it either.

 

No other conditions. No steroids. Just DX today at vet with a 360 at his office.

 

Was that 360 a BG test or a fructosamine?

 

360? Was a fructose test done? 360 could be just stress induced no?

 

When using Karo, you should just use a few drops. When China was new to all this, I knew if she dropped below 50 (we were doing TR with Lantus) I should give her some Karo/honey/syrup but I hadn't learned how much so I dumped about a cup full into a bowl and was shocked that she loved it. Needless to say, her numbers came up. I learned later that I was supposed to use a drop or two, not half the bottle

13% is medium carb. We usually suggest over 16% as high carb. The Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers beef flavor is 20% on Dr. Lisa's chart so that's what I used most of the time.

Stress can elevate the blood glucose as much as 200 points. You might want to hold off on the insulin for a day or two and see how Petunia does at home. As long as there aren't any ketones in the picture, a day or two isn't that important in the grand scheme of things

What other signs was she showing of diabetes?

 

At +3 she is 89 after the KARO some background:

I suspected something was going on so yesterday I tested twice she was over 400 before both meals. She has been eating the FF Gravy lovers. He did do a Fructosamine, but I don’t know where he got that number. It’s difficult these days since I’m not allowed in & just talk to him over the phone so I didn’t even think to ask. I sorta felt like 1 unit might be too much but I’m not experienced enough anymore to question him.

 

First shot – 1 unit Prozinc
Human meter – Relion
PMPS 295
+2 68 (fed aprox 1/2 can gravy (13%)
+2.3 66
+2.5?? (1 tsp karo)
+3 89

 

I was surprised she wouldn’t have anything to do with the KARO cause she’s been a pig lately! See my updated post....she tested 410 & 415 yesterday at home. She’s lost weight been drinking tons of water & screaming all day for food!

 

Thank you! I’m so behind, I’m having a hard time catching up!

 

1 unit is a fairly common starting dose....a lot of vets recommend much higher doses to start with! The vet that gave me the script for Lantus for China told me to start her at 4U (she weighed less than 7lbs) but thank God I'd spent several days reading and asking questions here! I told him I wasn't comfortable starting that high and he just kind of rolled his eyes but agreed I could start lower....and then said he thought she'd end up needing a much higher dose eventually. She never needed more than 2.75

 

What was Petunia in for? Any diabetic signs like excessive peeing/drinking? Any infection or dental needed?

Better safe than sorry?
I need to write that down. I never had to break the seal off my bottle of karo.

 

I only had to once with Thumper many years ago & she managed to lick a few drops! This girl wasn’t having it!

 

Barbara, can you retest in another 30 minutes to see if she’ll continue to go up?

 

I suspected & tested her at home yesterday. She as slightly over 400 both times. I added more details above.

 

Yes am planning on it! At this point if she drops again should I try more gravy knowing it’s only 13 carbs or go with some dry food? If so how much dry?

 

The dry isn't entirely helpful, it takes a while to hit the system and even longer to leave it.
What was it someone said - you can mix low carb and karo together to get high-carb?

 

No dry takes too long to work on the bg. Do you have any wet food with higher carb content? I think 13% is okay but remember just a table spoon so she doesn’t get full

 

Oh that’s brilliant!

 

def signs!

 

Sorry must have overlooked it!

 

Actually, I said you could mix a teaspoon of low carb with a teaspoon of high carb to make a medium carb....LOL

But yes, it's fine to add a few drops of Karo to low carb if that's all you have. You just have to remember that the simple sugars raise the BG fast but they wear off fast too

 

That would make more sense LOL. I just rechecked, it was Bron who said that but she only said "higher" carb, that was when a caregiver only had LC available. She probably meant MC.

 

Bron and I usually say the same things. Many people think we're the same person...LOL

 

+3.5 156

sheesh! Welcome back to me! I will test again in an hour. IF she starts going down again should I just try some of the MC gravy since that’s all I have or add some KARO? Also what should I shoot tomorrow morning?

 

It would depend on how much she dropped.

I'd probably start with .5

You can always go up in dose if it's necessary

 

First shot – 1 unit Prozinc
Human meter – Relion
PMPS 295
+2 68 (fed aprox 1/2 can gravy (13%)
+2.3 66
+2.5?? (1 tsp karo)
+3 89
+3.5 156

 

Great! Fingers crossed she stays up for you tonight.

Welcome back indeed!

 

It's a wonder you still had a roof on the house. (((China)))




Mogs
.

 

Yes, talk about making a Grand Entrance!

 

BTW, I noticed on the main forum it looks like a pair of glasses to the right of my thread post. What does that mean?

 

That you're "watching" the thread. Since you started it, you'll always have that

 

Thanks!

 

+4.5 229

So at this point plan on shooting .75 tomorrow morning? I also noticed my meter is the Arkray which was the manufacturer of the Relion if I remember correctly. It’s pretty much the same.

 

First shot – 1 unit Prozinc
Human meter – Relion
PMPS 295
+2 68 (fed aprox 1/2 can gravy (13%)
+2.3 66
+2.5?? (1 tsp karo)
+3 89
+3.5 156
+4.5 229

Phew.

 

Barbara, @Chris & China (GA) can help you start a spreadsheet. She's a wizard.

I never used Prozinc. I'll leave dosing advice up to the Prozinc people but I expect they will be. It all depends on what the AMPS looks like. If you could get a +11 and post, that might be a help.

@Deb & Wink
@Panic
and I think I saw
@JanetNJ on the forum earlier.

 

Chris recommended doing 0.5u tomorrow.

 

so I’m calling it a night. Plan on shooting .50 in the morning unless someone posts something different before then. I will check here & post AMPS before shooting in case any one is around. That should be around 5:50 am EST.
I guess I need to check the ProZinc protocol for a do not shoot number also. Thanks everyone!

 

8/29 AMPS 354 shot .50 moving this to Pro Zinc forum in hopes she doesn’t go so low today!

 

Just FYI, prozync forum is mainly @Deb & Wink i believe these days

 

This has been niggling me since last night.
The can you were using last night, you thought was 13%.

Prior to diagnosis, were you feeding higher carb food on a regular basis?
Was some of this food super high in carbs?
Were any of the tests done at home or at the vet food influenced?

There's another newly diagnosed cat who is a bit of a conundrum. Elise and Nan were having a discussion about it. Tagging
@tiffmaxee and @Nan & Amber (GA) for their thoughts.

 

I’m not familiar with anything as far as dosing except for Lantus and Levimar, but I do think a diet change prior to starting insulin can for many lead to a need to be very cautious with dosing, especially if a carb sensitive cat. Couple that with a stress induced bg check at the vet and my red light goes up even more. Since most people don’t have a lot of blood tests and thus don’t know how long their cat might be diabetic, I am even more cautious. It’s a reason I learned the hard way to ask for all test results to be emailed to me and keep a file. Vets often tend to be in a hurry and don’t go back to check all the old blood tests. I haven’t read the thread yet to see if there was glucose spilling into the urine or a fructosamine done. Just wanted to answer your question.

 

And @Panic
Sometimes, @JanetNJ is able to help, when she is not too busy with her job.