New diabetes cat :o(

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chatcat24

chatcat24

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Hello,

This is the first time posting any news about my cat, Harry. He's 10 years old, has been losing weight (from 17 pounds down to 12 1/2 now) over the last 7 months. I have just had him diagnosed as having cat diabetes, and wow is it emotional! Since he's "older", and I am financially in the severe lows right now, this is a problem. But, as many other cat lovers are out there with me saying that this is something I can get thru, it's definitely hopeful to Harry and myself.
His blood reading last week, (first time ever) was 21, apparently the norm. for cats is a 6? All other blood tests and urine were taken, as far as I know everything else is pretty much in the normal range. He will need insulin shots via Lantus, I've been doing research and this one seems to be the one to go with.
My initial questions are:
1) What all do I need to purchase for him? Lancets / testers, the strips, insulin of course, a blood monitor checker, and the needles. Is that all?
2) He has been eating Fancy Feast canned food for years, and likes it. From the forums I've been looking at, taking away the dry food and giving him a low carb, high protein wet food diet is the way to go - should I completely take away dry food (which he has access to thru the day) and the temptations treats that he loves? (also high carb, he would normally get 4-6 a day at least, which now I know is junk?)
3) Until I take him to the vet and pay muchos bucks for the initial testings, (of blood sugar thru out the day, insulin testing for approx. of where to start and day visit) is this possible to do the rest at home?
4) I am quite nervous - specifically being FREAKED OUT by needles, altogether!!! Do I always test his ear for blood sugar? (and always the same one?) Or, can you use his belly or hips too?

......Help!!! I am so new to this, is a sense. My mom has type 2 diabetes, and she's used to it. But I am for sure needing some guidance and help here please!!!!!

- Chatcat24
 
Hi and welcome.

This is scary, I agree, but after a few weeks, it actually gets pretty easy.

I'm in the States, so when I read your cat's BG at diagnosis, it's 378 (taking 21 and multiplying by 18). That's high, but I've seen higher.

Taking away the dry food and using just the canned is the right move. Hometesting is going to save you a lot of money. Jus the ears get tested, some folks use the paw pads, but very few that I've seen do that. You'll find info and vidoes here: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=287

You can keep the Temptation treats, if you want to give just one or two as a treat for hometesting, but if you switch to a better treat that would help too. Freeze dried chicken or even regular cooked chicken as a treat would be great.

Are you in the UK or Canada? Others who live in the area may be able to better advise as to where to buy things.
 
Welcome! You are in a great place for you and Harry.

Here is the hometesting shopping list:

A human glucometer. Any one that sips and takes a tiny sample is fine. The meters are often free at drug stores; it’s the strips that are expensive. You can, however, buy them on ebay at less than half the price of stores. Lots of people here also like the ReliOn from Walmart. It is an inexpensive meter and its strips are the cheapest around.

Lancets and a lancet device. Usually, until the ears “learn” to bleed, a 25-26 gauge is good. Any type will work.

Ketone strips. Just like human diabetics use. You will sometimes need to test urine if the numbers are high.

Rice sack. Make this out of thinnish sock, filled with raw rice or oatmeal and then knotted. You heat this in the microwave until very warm but not hot. Then heat the ears before poking.

Also nice to have. Flashlight: so you can look at the ears and find the little capillaries that come off the vein running down the ear. Vaseline: Put a tiny smear where you want to poke. It will help the blood bead up.

#2 Yes, wet food is best. Even a little dry can make a difference. Here are some other ideas for treats: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=9172

# 3 You do not to take Harry to the vet unless he is sick. You can do all the blood glucose testing at home including curves. Some vets want to keep the cat the first day he is on insulin which isn't a horrible idea, just to make sure that there are no adverse reactions. But if you can already home test, you can keep a close eye on him at home and save the money. Yes, they have to prescribe the insulin UNLESS you are in Canada, which you may be since you are using metric. (On this site, we use the US numbers. Multiply yours by 18) If you are Canadian, you can purchase insulin on your own ( I am pretty sure) You would want to do some research into types, costs etc. Tour the Insulin support groups to do some research: viewforum.php?f=5

#4 You give the shot in the scruff of the neck. You poke the ear for the blood glucose level: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zE12-4fVn8

Keep reading and asking questions. You can do this; we'll help!
 
Welcome to the FDMB family.

You are now in the best place on the planet to help you help Harry.

Okay first step....Deep Breaths...you can do this and it really isn't as hard as it seems at first, but is a fairly steep learning curve and we will hold your hand and paw through it all.

Glad to hear that it sounds like you are planning on home testing. Absolutely the first best place to start to keep your guy safe and get him on the road to recovery.

First off by your BG readings I would say you aren't in the United States, but that's okay we have members everywhere, but since I'm in the US I'm not that familiar with the system you are using so I will let other comment there.

Lantus is a great insulin and we have lots of members that have really good success rate with it.

I'll try to answert your questions in order, as for the list of stuff to get, yep you have it pretty much covered, although you might also want to add Ketostixs they same ones human diabetics use to test their own urine to make sure he doesn't get Ketones..

Once you are home testing then yes I would personally ditch the dry food especially since he loves the FF. Many cats here have gone into remission on just the diet change alone, including my own dear boy Max. But because it can drop the BG numbers drastically you want to be home testing first to make sure it is safe to give him his insulin. When my first diabetic was dxed I switched all 10 of our cats to the low carb high protein wet diet and I have 11 happier and healthier cats for it, not just my diabetic.

3 You most certainly can do your own curves at home, in fact we encourage it as you will be getting much better readings. Almost all cats are stressed at the vet's so the numbers are higher. If you are dosing according to those numbers at the vet's then the dose is very likely to be too high for Harry when he is at home and relaxed. Even my very laid back civie Bert who loves his vet will shoot up almost to diabetic range at the vet's. And there is really no reason to stress out Harry and your wallet for curves at the vet's. In fact I simply take my readings at home and then email them to our vet.

4. Most of us use the ear to test but you can use the paw pad too if he really hates to have his ears messed with, and with Max I tend to change it up on which ear I use, and will move to a different spot with each check. The only thing with using the paw pad is that you have to make sure it is well cleaned before poking and then watch for signs of infection. Paws go places like litter boxes that ears don't. =)

But seriously most of our kitties don't mind the ear pokes at all. When we first start getting them into a routine, pick a spot that has good lighting and make that the "test spot" for us that is on the bed, with a special pink blanket. Now when Max sees me get out the blanket he hops up to be tested. Also find a special treat he loves and give those as a reward for each test attempt regardless of if you get blood or not, you want him to think ear poke=treat. I personally never have given any commerical kitty treats, so can't comment on temptations. Here our entire crew gets chicken jerky treats for rewards, they are 100% freeze dried chicken.

Others will be along with tons of links for you, and other suggestions. But just remember to keep breathing and asking questions and we will walk you through it all.

But if it helps at all I just adopted Max from this board a month ago as a diabetic, if it wasn't so very doable I certanily would not have adopted another FD kitty after my first girl passed away. (not from diabetes).

Mel & Max
 
Hello and welcome
It would help to know where you are located because there may be someone near you who can help to show you how to test, among other things. I am in Toronto, ON, and I recognize your numbers.

1. If you are in Canada, you can't get the Relion meter that many others use, but that's OK; you can simply go to the pharmacy and pick up a OneTouch meter, or a Bayer or Aviva meter. Quite often, you can get the meter free with the purchase of a box of test strips. I know people are talking about diff size lancets, but I have not seen any diff sizes. All I see is a box of lancets for the lancet device that came with my meter. The syringes you want should have 1/2 unit markings; make sure of that detail because it makes for easier small doses.
- meter
- test strips for meter
- lancets for lancet device with that meter
- keto-stix for testing urine for ketones
- u100 syringes with 1/2 unit markings.

Actually, I just realized I don't know which insulin you would be using, but I have used Lantus and Levemir and both are great. Others use PZI types but I think those insulins use u40 syringes that you would get from the vet.
If you are in Canada, you don't need any rx for the insulins or syringes, so it's all your choice.
Caninsulin/Vetsulin are not great choices.

2. feeding fancy feast is perfect; he likes it, it's good low carb (make sure only the pate flavors and no grilled or gravy ones), so pull ALL the dry food and then do your home testing. Sure he may test at 21 now, but after he's at home and not stressed, and the dry food is out of his system, he may well test much much lower. At the least he will be healthier and you will have a good idea of what his real numbers are.

3. Please do not waste your time on money for curves at the vet office. The stress on your poor cat at the vet will only result in higher and untrue numbers. Everyone here can help you get the hometesting started, and all for the cost of test strips. Just a poke on the tip of the ear, and get a drop of blood for the tip of the test strip. You may be upset about it and think it's hurting your cat, but it's not... my two sleep through my poking the ear and sipping up the drop with the test strip in the meter.

4. testing is usually on the ear or paw pad as mentioned by others. The insulin shots are usually in the scruff.

Don't worry; you will be just fine.
Let us know where you are located and maybe someone can help you locally.
Got questions? Ask away!
 
Welcome to you and Harry. Hey, 10 is not old! I know vets call that "senior", but I think that is not old. Beau was, lets see, 8 when he was diagnosed (he is 12+ now) and Jeddie was 9 (he is almost 11 now). Both of them, once regulated, play like 2 year olds!

I think everyone answered your questions. I didn't see of you mentioned a starting dose? It should be either .5u or 1u twice a day to start. And dose increases should be after 3-5 days AND having done a curve. Don't let the vet tell you to raise the dose based on just one blood test.

You will probably see a big difference in his BG numbers once the dry is gone. Beau's BG came way down and so did his dose once I started home testing and phased out all the dry. He gets regular dry food kibbles as treats once a day now (they both do), but just a few pieces. I buy chicken breast on sale, cut it up in cubes, boil it and freeze packages of it in those small plastic containers. That is the treat all my cats like best. Even more than Temptations.
 
;-)
Well thank you to everyone who responded!! I reallllly appreciate the support from this site - I've never found anything like it yet! It's really great to know that you all will be there with me during the initial and future steps of dealing with a diabetic kitty. I'm sure it will get easier - but geez is it overwhelming at first!!
I have been doing quite a bit of research today, videos, but wow is there a lot to know.

I am in Kelowna, BC (Canada), I will be taking him to the vet (already had the appointment earlier today) tomorrow and will get the vets' help with the blood sampling, how to, when to take it, and I think it will be the first and last time. After the initial costs of blood tests and having them sent over to Vancouver for a thorough look-over (who knows how thorough it really was), $300 later the answer was: diabetes, the rest looks pretty much normal. So, here I am, trying to look at my cat with love and hope that things will get better!! The one thing I am not used to is the weight loss. It seems to be so dramatic and he barely wants to be petted (hard, or a little rough) at all, only if it's soft and gentle. . . . not like him at all. I'm hoping that after he's regulated then he will get some spunk and feisty-ness back!!

I did get a blood tester and a new box of strips from my mom (thanks ma!), she has type 2 diabetes and was going to get a new machine anyways. I do have some lancets, they are 28's - is that too small? Too big? But I will need to get more soon. And one thing I have been wanting to get was the freeze-dried kitty treats that everyone seems to mention. I'll be looking into getting those tomorrow - and I love the idea of giving him praise and a treat whenever I test his blood or give him a shot.

So after he's back from the vet, do I give him food right away? Do most people schedule their feedings with the insulin shots? And what happens if I'm not home at the right time to give him the shot? (and my husband is not available to - thank goodness he's around for the weekends when I'm working, and Harry will need his kitty shot)
...I guess all the scheduling will be worked out on a daily basis, for me it will include having several charts with feeding times, shots given, GL levels, ......
I do have yet another question, and thank you again for everyone who is there to help me out!!! . . . . How do you know when to up the level of insulin? (by a 1/2 unit) Apparently the vet is supposed to make that call, but what does everyone else do that can't afford it?

I'm sure I didn't get a chance to answer everyone's questions they had for me, for that I apologize. I'm sure I will get better at answering / being in a forum, this is truly my first!!
Oh - and to Sheila, Beau and Jeddie: I haven't started a dosage yet for him, that will be as of tomorrow. I'm hoping that he responds well and we'll see how it goes. I am already wanting him home tomorrow night, and he hasn't left the house yet for his appt.!! - Should I feed him an hour or so before he goes off to the vet tomorrow? Or hold off? he always seem so hungry when my hubby wakes up at 6 a.m. - Appointment is at 9 a.m.. . . . ?

- Chatcat24
 
Hi!

As far as feeding him before his vet appointment, I guess that would depend what the vet appointment is for, but since they have already run a blood panal unless the vet has told you otherwise I would go ahead and give him his breakfast. For somethings they want them fasting but will usually tell you ahead of time. But if you are just going in so they can start you on your insulin and show you how to test then eating before hand should be fine.

Yes, it will get easier and easier until it becomes a habit like brushing your teeth.

I can completely understand how scary the weight loss can be. Max when he got here to be was a bag of bones, now since I adopted him as a diabetic I have no idea what he looked like before I got him, but I can tell that 10.5lb is NOT enough weight on him. But since I have had him just a mere month he has regained about 2 lbs and is just now pushing 13lbs and will still need a couple more pounds before he will be completely back to where I would like to see him. But the weight will come back as long as all you are dealing with is diabetes, now there are some kitties that have trouble putting the weight back on but they usually are dealing with multiple health issues.

Once you get back and know what your starting dose is and what insulin you will be using come back and post, then we can help you start getting your spreadsheet set up that we all use, you can see Max's in my sig below. While it isn't required it does make it easier for us to help you once you start getting data and need help with dosage and numbers. It just saves us asking you the same questions over and over and over again.

Hang in there and we will get you through it all.

Mel & Max
 
You can find the freeze dried treats at PetSmart. They are sometimes called Bonito Flakes.

You would probably be better off with 25-26 gauge lancets. They make a bigger hole and usually work better at first. (The ear seems to "learn" to bleed.)

As for dosing, you get blood glucose levels before every shot and at the nadir. The nadir is the lowest point in the cycle, usually around 6 hours after the shot but it varies with the cat, so you will need to do tests at various times to find it. Those two numbers will help you decide how the insulin is working and whether he needs more or less. Many members fax their numbers to the vet and get guidance on dosing. Many members ask on the forum for guidance.

Re the insulin. Please ask your vet for Lantus, Levemir or ProZinc. Humulin N and Vetsulin are not good choices. They are harsher and harder to regulate with.

You can free feed, although some insulins need you to withhold food a few hours before the shot so the number is not influenced by food. Diabetic cats are literally starving because their bodies are not processing the food well, so most new diabetics need more food than usual.

Keep asking questions and reading. You are learning fast!
 
OH I have to comment on the weight thing first off! Don't worry, because you are now on the right track and before you know it, if you are not careful, you will be posting to ask how you can get your oinker of a cat to lose weight! Oh wait, that's me!

I adopted Oliver and he was only 15lb, skin and bones; I was in tears. He had been recently dx and the owners seemed to decide that he was too much trouble and wanted to have him pts! Well, once I got him regulated, after having let him eat what he wanted, he is now a hefty 23.6lb! Yeah, I know I may have overdone it a bit but he is a big boy and he is alot happier now. He was eating close to 30oz a day when he arrived but is now close to maybe 12oz or so.

He may seem quite hungry but since his body has trouble processing the foods to produce what he needs to function, he asks for more foods. I let both mine eat till they were regulated and I knew that was happening because they stopped eating so much.

OK you do not need to wait for the vet to tell you to increase or decrease the dose; you will find that the protocol followed here is great for guidelines.

Ask for a copy of the blood work test results; I keep a binder of all the test results for my cats because I like to be able to compare the current with the past and see where there's been changes. I go to the vet only as I would for myself; regular annual checkups and if ill. You have a starting point with the recent test results; that's good enough.

In BC, you have London Drugs I think? Anyways, being Canadian, you have it easier than those in the US. You can just go to London Drugs or some other pharmacy, buy whatever meter strips you like and also get the syringes and insulin you choose. No rx is needed from your vet and since Lantus and Lev are not vet supplied, I can't see where your vet would have the knowledge to advise on dosing. YOU can select whatever insulin you like, so I would suggest Lantus or Levemir. If your vet suggests Caninsulin, do NOT accept that suggestion. Tell your vet you want to use Lantus or Levemir and ask if the vet thinks one is better than the other. Seriously, the Caninsulin from the vet is not the way to go; it's a poor choice.

For your scheduling, think about what would be the very best and convenient 12/12 schedule for you. I like 6am/6pm because of my work hours during the week. I can be up to get ready for work, then test, shoot, feed at 6am and be out the door for work. I am home by 6pm but even if I'm just a few minutes late, it's fairly OK. For some people, it's not really possible to do the 12/12 thing due to maybe shift work or shifts of 12hours, but others on this site can offer their system that they have been using. It's fairly important to stick close to the 12/12 as the insulin works better in that fashion.

For feeding, you can get yourself an autofeeder, like many others use. It spreads out the food during the day which makes for no concern about hunger when you get home. I set my feeder to turn at 4pm because it's best to offer no food for 2hrs prior to shots at 6pm.
Petsafe 5-meal Auto Feeder
The feeder takes some of the food worries away.

The dosing is normally based on the BG numbers you get from testing your cat.
Here is a bit of the protocol, with some general guidelines:
"General" Guidelines:
--- Hold the initial starting dose for 5 - 7 days (10 - 14 cycles) unless the numbers tell you otherwise. Kitties experiencing high flat curves or prone to ketones may want to increase the starting dose after 3 days (6 cycles).
--- Each subsequent dose is held for a minimum of 3 days (6 cycles) unless kitty earns a reduction (See: Reducing the dose...).
--- Adjustments to dose are based on nadirs with only some consideration given to preshot numbers.

Increasing the dose...
--- Hold the dose for 3 - 5 days (6 - 10 cycles) if nadirs are less than 200 before increasing the dose.
--- After 3 consecutive days (6 cycles)... if nadirs are greater than 200, but less than 300 increase the dose by 0.25 unit.
--- After 3 consecutive days (6 cycles)... if nadirs are greater than 300 increase the dose by 0.5 unit.

Reducing the dose...
--- If kitty drops below 40 (long term diabetic) or 50 (newly diagnosed diabetic) reduce the dose by 0.25 unit. If kitty has a history of not holding reductions well or if reductions are close together... sneak the dose down by shaving the dose rather than reducing by a full quarter unit. Alternatively, at each newly reduced dose... try to make sure kitty maintains numbers in the normal range for seven days before reducing the dose further.
--- If an attempted reduction fails, go right back up to the last good dose.
--- Try to go from 0.25u to 0.1u before stopping insulin completely.

Random Notes...
Because of the cumulative nature of Lantus and Levemir:
An early shot = a dose increase.
A late shot = a dose reduction.

A "cycle" refers to the period of time between shots. There are 2 cycles in one day when shooting twice a day.
Sometimes a dose will need to be "fine tuned" by adding some "fat" or "skinny-ing up" the dose.


Everyone here knows how you are feeling, that it's alot all at once, but as has been said, in no time, it will be like brushing your teeth. I get up in the morn, start coffee, get food out to put in the feeder, give the civvie food, pour the coffee, get ready for work, test the cats, shoot the cats while they are eating, leave for work.

So take your time to learn home testing (if your lancets are too fine you can poke twice in a spot with the lancet device and the drops will be big enough to get a result), get yourself organized and set up a spreadsheet so you can track the numbers, and so the others here can help you with decisions. Take a look at mine and others ss and profile links in our signatures to see what we record.
 
Hello!

Well, it seems that I will know about Harry's curve as of 5pm today. . . he's been at the vets' all day getting his first curve testing, and I will be starting the 1st shot soon!! (breathe!)
Few comments for the awesome people that have been watching over me and Harry. . . .

MommaOfMuse: Yes, I'm hoping that his weight will gain as well, I will reply shortly on what his BG's / SIG's were. With him normally at 17 pounds, and happy, being a 12 1/5 pounder now is just odd. He's so thin on the back and sides!! Can't wait until he puts on a few. But if he's "overweight", technically, as well as on insulin, does that mean he's not healthy still? Can you have a slightly overweight cat that's on insulin and still be ok?

Sue And Oliver: I do currently have Lantus, I got some today for $70, instead of the $150 the vet was going to charge. And I slimmed down the 2 visits they wanted to one, I would rather (as requested, and talked about) do home testing to have his true numbers be shown for the BG's. As I've read, his numbers will be higher than norm. at the vet's due to stress? So it will be good to attack this on my own (with my supportive husband) and not have the vet "have his way", which may be more rough. . . you never know what they do in the back room!!
I have heard about Vetsulin being a disc'd product, was that one you've used before? I'm hoping Lantus will do it's job.

Gayle & Shadoe: ....Firstly, your cat looks like mine!!! SOO cute. Although, aren't they ALL adorable, if you are truly a cat lover like me! :o)
Thank you VERY much for noting that I should ask for the blood test results / copies of, no one has suggested that. I do have them, but have a problem loading them / adding them onto this site. So I have them below. I have no idea what they mean!! If there is anything that could tell me what any of it means, and if it's good or bad, that would be most helpful.
I haven't heard of Caninsulin before, but as per your sheets that you've posted, it seems it didn't work at all? Or, do you think that it was because Shadoe was somewhat insulin deficient? I don't meant to get so personal, just wondering about that product as well. We do have London Drugs here in BC, which I will be picking up syringes and needles from. I do have 28 mm Lancets that were given to me, (small amount, will have to get more), so I will try out the double-pricking method as discussed in many forums, incl. mine. Luckily, my hubby will be around to follow (as close as possible) with the testing and shots when I am at work, so the 12/12 should be ok.
....The autofeeder i haven't heard of before, specifically to use with wet food! I thought it was only for dry? (and wouldn't that be high-carb, unless I guess you have the spec. formulas for being low carb) So the feedings should be ok. . . . .
One more thing - "Early shot: dose increase", "Late shot: dose decrease". . . did you mean with regards to being late for that shot, or being 1st thing in the day for his first shot? Sorry - learning curve here. :smile:

Blood work paperwork. . . . received today. Anything that I have highlighted in bold was also in bold on the paperwork.

Hemolysis - Normal
Icterus - Normal
Lipemia - +
Glucose - 20.6 (apparently supposed to be 4-8 range, no more dry food for him!)
Urea - 12.8 (5-12 range is normal?)
Creatinine - 103
Bun/Cr ratio - 31.2
Sodium - 156
Potassium - 4.7
Na/K ratio - 33.2
Chloride - 110 (111-125 is normal?)
Bicarbonate - 19
Anion Gap - 31.7 (12-26 is the norm?)
Calcium - 2.63
Phosphorus - 1.29
Total Protein - 81
Albumin - 38 (23-33 is normal, apparently)
Total Bilirubin - 4
ALP - 56
ALT - 155 (28-76 is normal...why is Harry's so high?)
GGT - 2
CK - 113
Amylase - 548
Lipase - 54
Cholesterol - 14.15 (2-6 normal, will this go down with no more dry food also?)
Calc Osmolality - 332 (285-314 is normal?)

Endocrinology - 15.4 (apparently supposed to be in the 16-45 range?)

Hematology - all is in normal range (phew).
...Except the "Lymphocytes", this is what what written, and I don't get it:
5.0% abs = 0.585 (downward arrow) 1.770 - 6.580 x 10E9/L

...No idea on that one. he's lower than what he norm is?

Urinalysis:
Color: yellow
Clarity: Clear
Specific Gravity: 1.050
Ph: 6.5
Urobilinogen: 3.2
Blood: Negative
Urine Bilirubin: Negative
Glucose: Positive +3
Ketones: Negative
Protein: Positive +1
Sediment: Small amt.
Other (RBC, WBC, Crystals, Bacteria): None seen

I apologize for this mega long and drawn out email / reply / post, but as I get better with how-to's in the forums, I'm sure this won't happen again. I will be posting Harry's results from the curve done today, and that should be a lot shorter!!
Hope this helps some of you help me out. . . more-so with the items listed in bold. Besides the Glucose....I am confused.

Harry & Helena (chatcat24)
 
Noting really strikes me.
A high Urea goes hand in hand with a high protein diet. Since Creatinine is normal and urine specific gravity are goo kidney are good.
High Cholesterol seems to frequently high with no problems.
A high Alt (liver enzyme) with symptoms is usually OK.
 
First, no need to apologize for any long post! Lots of info is way better than too little!
I am pitiful at reading the b/w test results, but there are many here who can explain the ones that are out of range.
The glucose in the blood & urine is kind of expected, so that's not a surprise.
The negative for ketones is awesome as they are nothing you want to see.
Speaking of ketones, it's already been mentioned to test his urine with keto-stix, yes?

The caninsulin is in Canada, vetsulin in the US. See the below - vets are not supposed to be offering it i believe:
Lawsuit against Vetsulin Manufacturer
Vetsulin FDAs Warning December 15, 2009
For sure, I most likely got lousy results because of Shadoe's being acro, but even then, it's not a long enough lasting insulin, so I would have had problems anyways.
I am sure you will like Lantus; if Shadoe was not acro, I would likely have stayed using Lantus.

I keep a binder of the test results and all other papers from the vet for each of my cats. While there are numbers that show out of range now, you can check for changes on the next results. I ask my vet to explain each of the values that is out of range, and I take notes.
How many times has a vet said the results look fine, but if you have a copy in front of you and there are a couple numbers out of range and bolded, you can call the vet on it and say if all is OK, how come these are out of range???
Then I go home and ask here and also research online to see if I can get more info.

I did not realize that vets could sell Lantus; it sounds like a rip off to me because you can go directly to the drug store and not have to pay your vet's 'markup'. I just go to the pharmacy for all my stuff. I go to Shoppers Drugmart here because I get points on their Optimum card and so a few times a year, I have enough points to be my pack of 5 cartridges of Levemir for no money, only points! You can't beat that!

I attached pictures of the feeder. it's for whatever you want! If you wanted to leave one section with 6 dried chicken treats for a mid day snack, you can. I just divide up Shadoe's food for the day into the 5 little bowls, plop them into the feeder and that's that. She knows the sound of the feeder turning so she just has to get there before Oliver and she is fine. I love the feeder for her wet food.
 

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Hello again.

Not too much to add on today, waiting for the email with Harry's curve results from the other day. (vet forgot to supply me with a copy when asked, instead he gave copies of the curve sheets for future reference) As far as I know, his initial reading of the GB was 20.6, and thru the day of 5 readings at the vet, they were from 15-17 or so. but his weight is down as well, from 12.5 pounds a month ago to 11.5 as of today. (darn you - put on weight already!)
My husband and I got the low-down on how to get the GB readings and how to give insulin shots. . . which went well yesterday, he was very relaxed even though he had so many shots / pricks and pokes. . . . but when it came to me trying (key word here) to get a GB reading this morning (alone, my hubby was off at work), it was a no-go. He kept flicking his ears and walking off. I had everything set up with his fave blanket, the flashlight in my mouth and I could see the vein, (the opposite ear was totally hemorraged) but he didn't like me pricking him at all. So I gave up on that (for now) until I have a second pair of hands.
The vet said that I am to give him 1 unit BID, (I've chosen the 9pm/9am routine) and to hold off on the GB readings until we see how it goes with the 1 unit BID and my hubby and I will be doing another full blood curve on monday, testing the GB every hour or so. They / we are seeing how the initial injections go, how he reacts, etc. The vet was pretty good with talking me thru any future testing, or I could send the GB paperwork his way and get his opinion...but kept asking me to bring Harry in for any reason. ($31 a day plus $11 / GB adds up!) So....due to the whole money-thing again, I'll do my best to work it out at home and with all of your support and help for the dosages, etc.
.....When I gave Harry the insulin this a.m., he meowed when I initially poked him with the needle (and I took it out, went to another spot that was shaved), he meowed and moved a second time when i poked him again. I tried to be quick, but he really seemed annoyed, VERY much unlike how he was getting it done at the vet. Hm. Obviously technique needs a little work, my husband will be doing the shot tonight, taking turns will help.
......The whole thing about "am I hurting my cat?", which I was pretty brave on as of yesterday, turned on me quickly when I felt like I was hurting him this a.m. with the shot. :o( I know I'll get better, and he'll get thru it, and it's not like I'm trying to hurt him at all, but GEEZ talk about the guilt I felt all this a.m. and afternoon!!! I've used the 1/2" syringe with 3/10 mmol size, with unit markings every notch. (couldn't find the 1/2 unit markings, but will try another location to get those)
- Gayle & Shadoe: Thanks for the tip about going to Shoppers to earn points and use them towards the future insulin, I'll be doing that. Might as well get something for all the money spent, hey?

Sigh. I can totally see how pet owners go thru the range of emotions with their pets.
Helena & Harry
 
If he is hard to get to sit still you can try turning him into a kitty burrito, just take a big towel and wrap him up so that only his head is sticking out, Kitties usually like to be in a nice tight snuggly place it makes them feel safer, plus it keeps those nasty razors on their feet from contacting human skin if he gets really annoyed...lol. But honestly alot of times it helps in the beginning until they get use to it. I used it the first few days with Max because I was so new to him and he to me it was just easier than trying to convince a very big cat that this stranger only meant him good things, now I just take out his blanket, but it on the bed, show him the treat can and tell him "It's ears time" and he jumps up on his blanket to be tested.

Mel
 
...That's exactly what I will be waiting for, when it comes to Harry's tests!!!!! Ah, the day. . .
Thanks MommaOfMuse. I will try out the burrito technique, or at least have him in his fave blanket for the next time so he can "hide" like he did at the vet.

- Helena & Harry
 
So, today is a new day. We have (my hubby and I) given him shots SID, taking turns, and every time that we do we praise him before and especially after - and use different spots too. But every time, he gets whiny, meows like we're killing him slowly, and wants to get away! ARGH. ...for the moment. He seems ok afterwards, happy he gets his treats, but without my hubby's help it seems to be a problem. We tried rolling him up, but he scrambles to get away so we end up holding him and doing it as quickly as possible. I honestly do not know how things will go on Monday, when we get his GB's every hour as recommended by the vet - I guess we have to??? (for the curve)
....Can't wait to get that day over with. I am waiting for a routine to work.....well.

I may try the pulling the skin tight, instead of tenting it like shown by the vet, maybe that will be "less painful", even though I'm wondering if it's the technique or maybe just him being held (when he doesn't want to) that he is annoyed with.

Cats. So temperamental!!

...Tomorrow's a new day.
Helena & Harry :-|
 
A couple of questions...

Is your insulin warmed slightly or cold?

What needles are you using and are you using more than once?

Do not apologize for the shots or make a big deal.

Instead invision it ahead to him as you calmly tell him what you are doing and why. Matter of factly walk up, grab a cgunk of fur and inject. Pat and walk away. The end.

For tests, instead of restraining try sitting down on the floor with him between your legs. Brush him with your right hand, warm his ear with the sock in your left. Grab lancet device, keep sock in his ear and and poke the grab your tester. This worked wonders for me as squeak hates to be restrained

Jen
 
Hello!

Jen & Squeak: to answer your questions. . . .(and thanks for having 'em)
We take the Lantus out of the fridge (and into the syringe) about 10-15 mins. before, or we've been taking the Lantus out the fridge about a 1/2 hour before to slightly warm up.
We are using the 1/2", 29 gauge, ultra fine syringes for his injections, making sure the bevel is up every time. We haven't done (successfully, besides once when I tried to alone) the GB yet, but we will be attempting that fiasco multi-times as of Monday, with my husband helping. I do have 28 gauge lancets for this.
Yeah, I totally agree about not making a a big deal out of it. That's probably why he's meowing and getting annoyed - the fact that we are hanging around him for a couple minutes instead of the 5 second procedure. Guess we're still ...wanting to make sure it goes in all the way, that we haven't hit a vein / too far under the skin, etc.
I have read many times about the warm sock "treatment", so I will definitely be using that for the GB tests. :smile:

Thanks!! I enjoy having these discussions with everyone, it helps me mentally achieve success with this whole thing!!
- Helena & Harry
 
Hi Chatcat24 and welcome. I'm on day 3 of my cat's diagnosis & day two of injecting insulin so I eagerly read through your thread since I have many of the same questions as you. You're not alone in finding this frustrating, but the people on this forum are awesome, and extremely helpful. Thanks everyone! As Red Green says, I'm pulling for you. We're all in this together!

My cat is on Caninsulin so I'm very interested in the comments everyone has about it... obviously we'll have to change that on Monday.
 
Hi and welcome! I know this is all overwhelming in the beginning, but you are clearly quite dedicated to doing what is best for your cat, so you will learn quickly. The people here are wonderful, very informed and eager to help. I had great difficulty with my cat in the beginning. I am needle phobic and found the whole thing excruciating. But what one does for the love of a cat!

I found BD ultra fine needles 31 gauge 8mm 3/10 capacity with half unit markings to be the best for my cat. They are shorter than other needles and were not as scary to me. THe 1/2 unit markings are invaluable in measuring smaller doses. The larger the gauge, the thinner the needle---I believe you said you were using 29 gauge?--so my cat doesn't even seem to feel the injection.


My cat was very difficult when I tried to test her BG. I found this "clothespin trick" to be extremely helpful. It simulates the mother cat holding her by the scruff of the neck, and almost magically calms her down. I also wrapped her lightly in a fleece blanket, just so I had something to hang on to if she tried to get away. It was MOST difficult at first, and I had trouble believing I would ever get it right, but now it's a breeze! Here is the clothespin link:http://www.felinecrf.org/giving_sub-qs_giving_set.htm#clothes_peg_trick

Good luck and keep asking questions!
 
Hello again!

Well, to another newbie like myself to this whole thing, hi to dholowiski! Yes, I was like you last week, scouring the forums for hours trying to find someone to help me out with the details of how to do this. I sure DO appreciate comments from people like yourself, it keeps me in touch with the fact that there are thousands going thru the same thing we are!!
Judy and Squamee: Yes, I agree about the needle size. I changed (new box) from the 28 to the 31 gauge for his injections. They only had the 5/16", but I'm sure that will be fine.
Had to give Harry his first shot today by myself without my husband around. . . after a little hesitation, an "oops" moment (which I'm sure everyone has done) of poking the needle, after tenting the skin, right thru to the other side - sorry cat. He could tell I was a little antsy over this one, but when I did achieve the main goal he didn't make a sound and barely moved, instantly got treats and foodie right away!
That's one thing that has worked very well - immediate treats along with his fave food.
hahahaha - I fell asleep on the couch with my husband yesterday after one of those incredibly loong days where man does it feel so good to have your eyes closed. . . and Harry woke US up with loud meows 10 mins. after he was supposed to get his shot and treats!! So that's great - just when I thought I could train him, he's trained us!! :-D

One question to all your diabetic kitty owners out there. . . . advice on pet food, with regards to following the vets' advice and buying their low carb food, or go ahead with low carb / high protein foods that are listed thru many forums, staying away from the high carb ones? If the price is pretty close then I'll say "go for it", (still am going to do the cost analysis on this, just to see) but if it ends up being so much higher per month (or if the cat is super picky like mine, and doesn't like the soft food, just the flaky tuna cans), do you do it?
How bad is it for your cat to continue with wet foods that he likes, that may be "not as good" as what the vet says? (keeping in mind that of course they will support their vet offices' exchange of funds between them and the owners)

Ok - off to give Harry a few more pets, his before-bed snack (for my bedtime, not his!) and a noted word of advice or two for my hubby that will be giving Harry his shot tomorrow a.m. alone too! ("Don't hover!! He hates it!!")

Helena & Harry
 
Hey Helena & Harry of course

Well with 11 to feed, the prescription stuff was a complete no go here. All of them found it absolutely disgusting, even my one little tux who we refer to as the garbage deposal turned up her nose to it. So at least here we feed several different flavors of either 9-lives or Friskies. It took some experimenting to find flavors that everyone liked bbut after about a week or two of buying every flavor on Binky's list that were under 8% carbs, we came up with about 10 flavors that the whole crew liked and that is what we decided to go with.

To feed my hoard it runs us about 40/week which worked out to be a little cheaper for us than feeding them a high quality dry with canned in the morning and evening, like we were before we adopted Max. And they are much happier for the switch. And actually I personally feel that the ingredients in the commerical food is superior to those used in the prescription stuff. But regardless of how good for them or bad for them it is if they won't eat it, it does them no good.

Mel & Max
 
Hi Helena,
It sounds like you and Harry (and DH-dear husband) are making great progress! One thing was unclear to me---after you went through to the other side when giving a shot, did you shoot again? When one misses like that, we call it a "fur shot" and don't advise a re-shoot, because it is unclear how much insulin was given and we don't want to overdose.
 
Hi again,

Well thanks for the input Mel & Max! I was wondering about the cat food at the vet's - when I saw it at a friends house, it looked very pasty, non chunky, and...non edible. I'm sure there are different brands, but like you say - might as well go with something that the cat can eat!! 11 to feed - all cats? All with diabetes, or 1/2 & 1/2?
That's quite the commitment, but it's easy when you love animals!! ;-)
To answer your question MommaofMuse - When I did the poke-right-thru, I didn't inject anything. So that's when I went to the other spot on him (that was shaven from the vet) and injected all the goods. So I didn't do the fur shot - I've been watching for that / paying attention to make sure he gets the full injection. We have bought a pack of the 5/16" syringes (but I got a pack of the ones with the 1/2 unit markings, what I wanted), 31 gauge, and they seem to be working better than the 28 gauge. He doesn't seem to mind them as much.
....But now TODAY'S THE DAY!! - Full blood curve that me and hubby will do at home. . . . .and the first one is in a few minutes. GB test and then the shot. ....Breathe, Helena. You can do this. I will await the week (in a few, hopefully) when it's only testing GB a few times a day instead of all day - but this is the start of a better and (fatter) future kitty!! I'll advise how it goes.
I have already noticed that he's more attentive, is able to be pet more roughly (as he liked it before he got all thin and nervous) - so the changes that I am seeing are great!! I hope he's coming around. He sure likes sitting with us during the day / night more than a few weeks / months ago, so that's good news. :smile:

Helena & Harry
 
Glad to hear he is feeling better and more like his old self...feels great doesn't it.

And to answer your question...Only 1 diabetic, (Max) who I adopted from this board after my first girl (Muse) went to the Bridge. Out of the other 10, I have 1(Onyx) with severe food allergies, 2 (Duvessa & Myrrdin) that were still born as kittens and revived, and are now healthy happy 7 month olds. 2 (Casper & Patches) that came from abusive homes, 1 (Angel) I bottle fed after finding her thrown in the trash at my job when she was about 4 weeks old..she is now going on 2 years old, and 2 (Tre'Vona & Sophia) former ferals that decide maybe inside with humans is just alright by them, 1 (Amon Ra) that is a sole surviver of a pit bull attack and lastly Bert who is the only one that didn't come with baggage, he was actually born right here.

And to top it all off we also have a 75lb drooler again a former abuse case. It can be hectic at times, but I wouldn't trade it for the world. A while ago I was joking with my husband that I should have been a Vet or at very least a Vet Tech, so for our anniversary this last September my super sweet guy, paid for me to go back to school to do just that become a Vet Tech. Afterall if I'm going to be up to my neck in critters I might as well get paid for some of it...lol. Actually he is as nuts about them all as I am.

Mel
 
Frustrated girl here. :cry:
We gave Harry the first Gb test this a.m. and it was 11.1 (with his usual 1 unit dose afterwards) - great! Last week at the vets' it was between 15-17 all day, and that's better than 20.6 when we first had him tested. But now, as we are trying to give him another GB, he keeps flicking his ears, bending them so we can't hold them to get a reading.
Finally with much trouble got him pinned down to do this second one, (he hates it!!!!!!!!!!!) and it was 17.5 .

...What do you do if the ear that the vet gave the GB curve on is still hemorraged and all red inside (when shining on it with a flashlight) from last week? Do you avoid that ear until healed? And we were told to start at the bottom of the ear and work up, is that right?

....I am trying to avoid the feelings I get when taking out the lancets (which are too short, we will have to return those and get needles instead), as I freaking HATE needles. I get all hot inside from head to toe, and feel like I am a) getting a shot myself, or b) that I am going to pass out.

I know this will get easier, but am I willing to get money (somehow) together to take him to the vet again for another curve? ..I don't know. Right now I have a kitty who is happy he got fed, but annoyed that we are playing with his ears altogether.

Any tips? The burrito method is not working, he just wants to get away. As soon as we start to touch his ears, he flicks and wants to run. ...Someone come and take my place so I don't have to do this!!!!!!

Helena & Harry
 
That is a possibility, Helena. Have you listed your city and state to see if anyone lives nearby?

If getting him still is really a problem, you could try the clothespin trick. It mimics the way mother cats pick up their kittens by the nape of the neck. http://www.felinecrf.org/giving_sub-qs_ ... _peg_trick Often people with difficult cats have used it at first until their cats settle into the routine.

Are you using neosporin on his ears? That will help.

And if he moves away, you can collect the drop on your fingernail and test from there.

I would stick with lancets for the ear pokes. The 25-26 gauge make a bigger hole and tend to work better at first.

The trouble with the numbers from the vet is that they can be heavily influenced by vet stress - strange noises, animals and people. Stress raises bg levels, so you often wouldn't be getting true readings. Doses based on inflated readings can lead to hypos once the kitty is home and relaxes.

You will get this. We spent a weekend poking poor Oliver before we got a drop. Once you get the routine down and both you and Harry are more relaxed, it will be easier. Promise.

And don't forget to breathe. It helps!
 
Also, I am wondering why you think the lancets are too short? I use them freehand (not in a device) and go in at a 45 degree angle. All it takes is a small prick. I also have a horror of needles, and when I first started I used the lancet with the device on myself (the side, NOT the pad of my finger, which would be more painful)===just to see what I was doing to my cat, and it really wasn't so bad. That made it easier to poke my cat. I use the BD ultra fine ll 30 gauge lancets. Also,if you use a little neosporin on the ear, it helps the blood bead up, not run into the fur. There is also a neosporin with pain relief that some people find helpful. And it may speed the healing process. After you poke you should hold the ear tight for 10-29 seconds (like after they take your blood) It reduces bruising. Good luck! And keep posting
 
Most of those lancet devices are adjustable. If you have it at the extreme one way, it could seem too short and hitting nothing and the other extreme would go right through the ear.
Play around with the settings in case that's the problem.
I don't do freehand as it seems too slow and would hurt, unlike a quick fast poke from the device.
 
I tried a lot of ways when getting it down to an art form, including enlisting unwilling volunteers of my other cats. Now this is what works for me, I still use the lancet device, I just take the cap off. That way I can see where I'm aiming and yet still have the device to do a very quick firm poke. Left to me I'm sure I would pull the poke free-hand so this is at least for me the best of both worlds.

Mel
 
Hello to all the pet lover's out there.
Well.

Through today, and 5 times (trying, key word here) to get a GB going, only three were successful. It was hard when we were poking him 3 times in different spots in the same session with blood to no avail! And one time we got some blood, but it wasn't enough to fill the meter strip, and then Harry got so pissed off he went and hid, so I decided to leave it alone.
So we ended up trying to poke him again at 6:30 ish, but no go, and we poked him for nothing, three times (again) But we got him with a warm rice filled sock against the ear for a couple mins, then pinching slightly the bottom of the ear to help stop the flow of blood, and then a quick prick and firmly but gently hanging onto his ear so he can't move when it starts to bleed.
Numbers for today:
11.1 at 9:30 a.m.
17.5 at 1:30 pm today
19.1 at 9:30 tonight.
Well, now we know to up the dosage by a 1/2 unit....Right? Am I wrong to say this - I'd just like to confirm before I go ahead. 9:15 / 9:15 are his dosage times right now. But we were a little late today.

We used the lancets, I was going to use / buy some hypodermic needles like the vet used (as the lancet needle is so short it's tricky to get it in at the 45 degree angle), but I couldn't find any that he had, so lancets it is. At least they are cheap. ($12 for 100)

Tomorrow we will do it 3 x, to see what it is. Hopefully it's lower! But again, his personality is getting more attentive and friendly, especially when it's all over. And his fave food arrives.

Sock method with rice - works great!! Pinching method - also good! Will go with this again for sure.
More stats tomorrow.

Helena & Harry - things are looking up.
 
Congratulations! And I promise you it will get easier and easier! Once you get blood (and join us vampires! :lol: ) you soon get the hang of it and it becomes routine. You should probably start a new thread. That's what we typically do each day. We start a thread with the date and the cat's name---otherwise the thread goes on and on and gets too long. Have a good day and keep up the good work! (Also, it would be easier for most if you converted your numbers into USA format. I am not sure how---I think you multiply by 18?)
Hang in and I am sure others will come to discuss the dose.
 
:RAHCAT :RAHCAT :RAHCAT Yah! Welcome to the Vampire Club. Yes, warming the ear does seem to make a big difference in many kitties.

Sorry, you didn't get help with dosage last night. One thing you can do to help that is to go over to the Lantus Support group and read the stickies: viewforum.php?f=9 They have a specific protocol they use for dosing. And you should really post over there to ask about dosing. They all use your insulin and have seen lots of different scenarios.

They will want a spreadsheet as they are very numbers driven. Here are the instructions for it: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=18207 If you have trouble with it, just post again. We can help. It is color coded and a great tool to really see what is happening.

Oh, and stick with the lancets. Sometimes, if the kitty moves away with the needle, the ear can get torn. The lancet makes a much better hole. And you can always poke again in the same place to enlarge the hole.

You are doing great!
 
Hi!

I have done my best to enter all info into the ss given from this site, but still had a few questions about how to enter certain things (but have posted this on a new Lantus forum).

Good news - Harry's weight as of today is one pound heavier than a week and a half ago! (yay!) He seems to be more friendly, definitely loves the treats he gets, and more attentive.

We will still be testing his GB mid-day today and before his p.m. shot, hopefully it will be lower (than 18 Cdn / 324 US)!

The vet called me, we chatted about his habits and he "approved" his dose BID to 1.5 units (from 1). Which I had already decided, so that's great. I mean, initially when his GB was tested it was 370.8, and now it's averaging at 286.2, or so, but mainly in the early 300's. That's good, right? Even a small bounce from 380 down to 340 is good? (before compared to after starting insulin)
Hopefully this will keep improving. He's still eating a lot, but the mega water thirst has started to not be as bad as it was. He was jumping in the shower as SOON as I was done, or even still had the water running just to lick up all the water at the bottom and would still drink even more afterwards. . . and he hates getting wet at all! But this last week he hasn't gone into the shower once, and doesn't even come into the bathroom when I have a bath going (to lick up and down my arm for all the excess salty-skin-water)! So, I'm thinking that's an improvement, as small as it is.

Yay!!
:smile:

Helena & Harry
 
Helena,

Great job on the spreadsheet! It looks great. It sounds like Harry is feeling better.

Edited to add: Went over and looked at your questions on Lantus about the spreadsheet. Yes, it is a good idea to put in the food. You may find that some foods result in higher/lower bgs. The way you add the numbers between the shots in the am and pm is to use the + system So if you have a number 2 hours after the morning shot, you put it in the +2 box. The 333.2 doesn't matter. Just round up or down.
 
I'm trying. . . .

Hello!

So today I had a chat with hubby and we decided it's time. . . . time for us to try (with the other person there for support) giving the GB tests on our own to see how we do, and to of course get used to it. It's been a bonus that only one GB test a week will have to be done alone, so far. And that ended up to be a double burrito roll up method with two pokes and a struggle. . . but it was success as the reading was achieved.

AND today I actually did a successful GB test! I have been so nervous (with very shaky hands), but ended up poking him three times in the one ear, switched and two pokes with FINALLY the glorious drop of blood appeared! I was nervous because I've found my hubby poking him with the 28 gauge lancet and going thru his ear, poking too hard (and I don't like that!!! It shouldn't be that way!), so I was too soft at first, but then did it without being too hard.
.....This will get easier!! The shots now, of insulin, are easy to do and he doesn't mind too much. Harry just turns around and stares and then walks away when he's done.

The numbers have been high, but that's only the AMPS and PMPS digits - not the mid day ones. Or, they have been a little high but he was given Friskies Turkey n' cheese dinner with gravy an hour earlier, so the food spiked his GB levels.
I have found a mega pack of friskies, containing:
-Mariner's Catch
-Turkey n' Cheese dinner with gravy
-Chicken Dinner
-Whitefish and Tuna Dinner
...From what I looked up on the different food charts, these are ok to my sweet diabetic kitty except for the turkey one with gravy. . . . any comments on the food? We don't have the $$ for the higher end food, so I'm hoping this will do. They seem to be lower in carbs and higher in protein.

I'll keep up with the charts (all up to date as of today) and with bugging my cat for the vampiric sample!!!
(if that's even a word, haha!)

Helena & Harry
 
Put aside the Turkey& Cheese with gravy packs to use as your HC high carb when Harry has low numbers later on. I keep a couple cans of that flavor and mine LOVE it, but the gravy is higher carb.

As he starts feeling better, having lower numbers, he won't mind the tests at all, and as you get more practice, you will not be so nervous, and if you are less nervous, then he will be less upset about your being nervous! The day will come when he comes to you to remind you that it's testing time. Mine have done that often, but now they are just lazy and even sleep through my poking their ears ... what a bunch of lazy kitties I have.

You are doing fabulous; keep up the good work.
 
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