New and Need Help

Status
Not open for further replies.

Carrie & Trouble

Active Member
My cat, Trouble, and I have been been working in this blood sugar issue now for 12 days(feels like months and I am so envious of people who get off insulin). This is such a huge world I didn't even know existed. He was diagnosed at 460, went to 288 five days later, read a 322 at the vet this morning, now at 434 before evening shot. He was on 2u morning and night, but vet switched today to 3u morning and 2 u evening. I finally bout my home tester today (strips are crazy expensive) and now feel much better about know is daily levels. I have a couple questions that have been bothering me...

I have asked two different vets at my cat's office about switching over to all dry food and they keep playing it down as if the dry Purina DM will be sufficient. When I mention "carb" or "protein" they seem to think the shots are what is important and the food is not as crucial. I see almost all posts on this site say switch to all wet. I am wondering what the motive would be there...their ultimate goal may not be for Trouble to get off insulin?

Also, I noticed tonight someone was worried about giving their shot 15 minutes late. Is 15 minutes late/early a big deal?

If I do take him off dry grazing, how do meals work for some of you? Twice daily with shots? How much should a 13 lb. cat eat in a day?

Oh yeah, I can't seem to find the page on this site that tells me what all of your abbreviations mean. Please direct me!

Thanks for all the help in advance!
 
Welcome Carrie and Trouble!

It can be very frustrating in the beginning but hang in there!

Lower carbs are the key to helping kitty become regulated.. so take a peek at Janet and Binky's food chart..
viewtopic.php?f=14&t=115

My Pepper was also on DM and I saw a dramatic change in his numbers when we went to all wet low carb food..
Transitioning to wet food can be very difficult in the beginning, I purchased a timed feeder so that Pepper could have snacks in the wee hours of the AM.. and in time he adjusted. I'm sure that he would prefer dry food (his favorite); but, his health is first and foremost :-D

Also, there are some wonderful stickies to read at the top of this board regarding Lantus and dosing. Dosing of Lantus should be consistent on a 12/12 time frame.. and should be the same amount of insulin AM and PM.. As for being 15 minutes late, it is really not a big deal but we just try to keep kitty on a consistent schedule.

This board has sooo much to offer diabetic kitties and their owners.. There are some wonderful people here with a wealth of information on what has worked for their kitties. Post again in the AM for assistance.... and remember.. it does get easier!

Hugs to you and Trouble!
 
Welcome to lantus land--The key with lantus is consistancy & patience--Shots are given every 12 hours, as close to that as possible for maximum effect..Our goal here is to make our cats well, if a cat happens to go into remission, that is a gift.
Please read the stickys at top of lantus page--They are essential.
Our protocol here is a little different than vets..We are quite up to date on latest vetereinary studies re:feline diabetes, have analyzed the content of the major cat foods, and use our combined knowledge & experience to make our cats well regulated.
What you are experiencing with the numbers is normal for a newbie. The food makes a tremendous difference & wet food is what works--We are here to help.
 
sounds like paula basically covered it all.

listen, it's not critical that you shoot every 12 hrs religiously and never late or early. yes, i think it gets them regulated quicker and keeps the amount of insulin stored under the skin at a more predictable level (you can look up insulin depot to find out more about how insulin is stored subcutaneously). but we're all human and sometimes we're not on time. just do the best you can. if you're gonna have to shoot early (or late), try not to make it more than 15 minutes early (or late) or you'll have to worry about too much (or too little) overlap of insulin between one shot and the next. so for instance if you know you're gonna have to leave early some days from now, you just shoot a tiny bit early each shot til you get to that day, rather than shooting early all at once. so it helps to plan these things when possible.

if you oversleep or get home late you'll not be shooting on time but eventually after more timely shots your cat will get back to where he/she should be. kitties are pretty adaptable that way.

lots of vets just don't seem to realize how bad dry food is for cats. if your cat is sick and not eating, that takes precedence and you feed what he/she will eat. but dry food is bad for their kidneys, dehydrates them, and raises their blood glucose levels. you can read more about it on dr lisa's site:http://catinfo.org

many of us have different feeding schedules. i try to feed small meals more often during the day. some feed 4 to 6 meals a day if possible (smaller meals to spread the same amount of food out but give it more often). some feed a larger meal at shot time and a smaller meal sometime in between. we also use food to slow a drop if a cat's blood glucose is dropping too fast after a shot. a little bit of food can really help low that drop.
 
Welcome to LantusLand. Yes we speak in a crazy language here, but you'll get used to it. Glad you are testing, and hope you can find some time to read all those Sticky's Paula pointed you to. Janet and Binky's charts are indispensible.

Get your catty off the dry and onto timer dishes as soon as you can. Eating wet food throughout the day helps you regulate, but if your cat is like mine (would eat all food left out in ten minutes), you must get timer dishes.

Be patient, don't beat yourself up, cry (alone or with the rest of us), drink wine and eat chocolate (personal favorites - LOL)...then read all this stuff again and again until it clicks. Relax and breathe - you can do this. And all of us are here to help you. You are not alone, and Trouble isn't either. :)
 
Hi Carrie-welcome to FDMB and LL :mrgreen:

I echo what the others have said about the dry. If you go to www.catinfo.org-lots of useful reading material and helpful tips from Dr Lisa (our resident knowledgeable and invaluable vet on this board) about transitioning kitty from dry to wet.

Would really really recomend hometesting. The 3u and 2u seems high to me for a relative newbie. The ethos of this board is start low, go slow. We recommend beans (us humans) hometest and start at usually 1u (sometimes less depending on numbers) and increase in.25u increments.
This is so you don't miss ideal dose and keep kitty in safe numbers.

Would also suggest you get keto diastix from pharmacy and monitor something called keytones until kitty regulated.

Until you get a spread sheet set up (if your prepared to hometest) you can post numbers in your profile and/or condo-then others can help you. Without a record of kitty's response to insulin it is almost impossible for other beans to advise.

OTJ for some is achieved easily, others it's a long haul (up to 2 years) and others not going to happen, but kitty is kept in non-diabetic numbers and lives a happy life.
Please keep asking questions-oodles of help here :mrgreen:
 
HI WELCOME!!! You are in the right place! My first vet that diagnosed Scrabble also told me that diet didn't make a difference and said I could just buy the DM food and he would be fine. I am so glad I didn't listen to him and switched my kitties over to a low carb canned diet and they love it! Lantus takes patience but it is an amazing insulin. Post all of your questions here, they are always people around to help. I don't know what meter you are using but the relion from Walmart is pretty cheap and the test strips are about the cheapest around. Good luck and so glad you are here!!!
About the feeding, I feed mine 4 times a day, 2 mini-meals and 2 bigger meals. It seems to work for us. You can experiment with your food schedule and see what works better for you. The timed feeders are great especially if you are not going to be home for a while.
 
Also, use the link at the top to purchase your supplies from Hocks.com. They charge 1/2 what my local pharmacy charges for the test strips and lancets. Jez and I are on day 14 and I understand your confusion and frustration.
Jez is also having a hard time transitioning to wet food. So to make sure she does eat, I still have to leave out the extra wet she didn't eat in the morning and some lo carb dry (Evo). Having two cats makes it more difficult to monitor who is eating what.

Hang in there!

Debie & Jez
 
Thanks to everyone who has been offering advice. I am going to work on getting a spread sheet set up today. Trouble seems to enjoy eating the wet food, so that won't be a problem, but his much finnickier brother, Double, has decided to make the switch a challenge. Eventually, I will get them both switched over to a full wet diet. I am off to do more reading!
 
HI! I just wanted to pop on in and say welcome! and you have found an amazing place. I will leave all the advice giving to the experts - there are some very knowledgeable people here. It is a bit overwhelming at first, but fear not - within no time it will become easier. Welcome to Lantus land!
 
Welcome to LL you are going to find so many good people to help you here but let me tell you upfront that changing your cat from dry to wet DOES make a difference a big one my cat Do Lou was dx'd in Nov and we only recently really pushed to get him to wet and its with this change came much better BG numbers for Do Lou as well as a insulin decrease and he was a big time dry food addict it was so hard to not give in to those give me kibble eyeballs :-D but I made myself stick with it knowing I was doing whats best for him and no it did not happen overnight it was a gradual process but if your cats likes wet then the sooner the better. Good luck and take time to read the stickys at the top of this page :mrgreen:
 
The food is extremely important. So important that you should know there are cats who are diet controlled and do not even need insulin. Just by changing their food.
Wet food and low carb wet food is the way to go. There is no reason to pay for the expensive foods, dry or wet, that the vets push you to buy; you can just select from binky's food list that was given and there is a huge amount of foods there.
The dry cat food, even the ones claiming to be 'low carb' are just like kitty krak.

About the timing of shots. A late shot is like a dose decrease, and an early shot is like a dose increase. The dose you give is good enough to last to the next one in 12 hours, but you have the shed with a reserve equal to your current dose.
If you wait too long, kitty has to dip into that reserve shed and when you finally give the late shot, not all of it goes to kitty because the shed has to be topped up again.
The time when you give an early shot is like an increase because kitty is still using the last shot and now it's getting more and you can have the body think it's an increase and it will add a bit to the shed. Then you get a bit of NDW new dose wonkiness where it's got to settle down again.
So late shots and early shots are not advisable as it distrupts the routine.
It's why a missed shot may not seem too bad right away but that's because kitty is using the shed and you won't see the effects of the missed shot till the next time when the shed's got to fill.
Bottom line: It's best to stick to the 12/12 as much as you can.

For foods, I found that Shadoe was eating like crazy when she was first dx and started on insulin. 4-5 cans were the usual. Now, she is eating maybe 2 cans or less. It will change as kitty adjust to insulin and I was advised to just let her eat until she got regulated because the body can't properly use the nutrients in the food at the moment. I have found that even Oliver is changing in his eating habits now too. It just takes some time.
 
Welcome Carrie and Trouble!!

I love that your other kitty is Double!

I hope we haven't overwhelmed you yet. The front end of this learning curve is huge and we may be contradicting your vet. There is, however, a tremendous amount of expertise here and an enviable record of getting cats either tightly regulated or into remission.

Please don't fault your vet for not being well informed about feline diabetic nutrition. There are any number of MDs who don't know very much about nutrition either - and they have to deal with only one species. Nutrition constitutes probably an hour of lecture in vet training. Most of the information that vets get is based on the sales reps from the prescription pet food companies. If your vet believes that a low carb diet is critical to diabetes management, he shouldn't have any trouble with your returning any unopened food and your using canned foods that are low carb. Once you've had a chance to look at Dr. Lisa's site, you will notice that while the Purina DM isn't horrible carb-wise, it is a very poor quality food -- mostly animal by-products vs. muscle meat. There are brands of cat food in every price range that are under 10% carb and that, hopefully, both of your cats will eat.

You're absolutely correct -- the biggest expense is strips. Many people here use the Walmart brand, Relion, meter and strips. Both are very inexpensive. I use a Bayer Contour meter and have found that Amazon has very competitive prices. DON'T buy strips at your local pharmacy. You will end up spending at least double what you would pay using pretty much any other outlet.

It didn't sound like you've had an opportunity to test much yet. I would suggest taking a look at videos on YouTube. (It's actually how I learned to home test and shoot.) You can also post a note on the Health Board asking if there is anyone in your area who could show you how to test. Members will routinely help a new person learn how to do this. Home testing is very important. We test before each shot - AMPS and PMPS (AM and PM Pre-Shot). However, Lantus dosing is based on the lowest point, or the nadir, of the cycle. So, it's important that you get spot checks at various points throughout the day. Many of us are confirmed testaholics (and yes, I'm raising my hand!). If you look at the spreadsheet (SS) attached to my signature, you'll see what I mean. The test data will allow you to make good decisions about Trouble's dose and it will allow us to help you.

We follow a dosing protocol. A modified version of the protocol is in the Tight Regulation sticky above. I would also suggest you read the New to the Group sticky. Both notes contain links to the formal versions of the dosing protocols. I'd actually recommend reading all of the stickys but those two are a good place to start.

A couple of questions... What was Trouble's starting Lantus dose? There is a formula based on Trouble's ideal weight for calculating starting dose. Further, how were Trouble's doses increased? Lantus dose should be increased in small amounts -- no more than -.25 to 0.5u and the doses should be held for several days. Does Trouble have any medical problems or is he taking any other medications?

If you are planning on setting up a SS, it would also be helpful if you completed a Profile and attached both to your signature. The instructions for the Profile and its template are also in the Tech Center along with the info on a SS.

Please ask questions. Visit our condos and read our SSs. It's the best way to learn. And again, welcome.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top