New and frustrated

Status
Not open for further replies.
K

Kaia's Mom

Member Since 2013
My 6.5 year old Maine Coon was diagnosed on March 22. His dose was increased to 2.5 units twice a day on Tuesday after a glucose curve on Monday with all values over 300. He is eating only moist food (Fancy Feast and Friskies).He does look better than he did in March, but I am frustrated because I know he is still not feeling well. He is clicker trained because he was having a lot of issues with chasing and biting our other 4 cats, as well as biting and scratching me. We are supposed to work with him and the clicker each day, as well as play with him to continue to build bonds with him. He can't have his clicker treats (Temptations) any more, and I can't find much else he likes. We haven't been able to do "play therapy" with him because he doesn't feel like playing. His behavior is deteriorating again, and he is hungry all of the time, meaning he hisses at anyone who gets in his way whenever someone is in the kitchen. I feed him every time he "asks", but he is still very irritable, and wants his dry food back. I am frustrated because I don't see his numbers getting any better, and all of our hard work building a relationship with him seems to be for naught. Tonight he grabbed me and sunk his claws in because I tried to break his eye contact with the cat he bullies.
 
I am so sorry you are going through this. Does he like chicken? You can poach off some chicken breasts and give that for treats or you can get some freeze dried Pure Bites. My cat loves them and he was addicted to Temptation treats before his diagnosis. He easily transitioned with those.

As for the dose increase, are you home testing? If not, I suggest that you learn how to do it. Buy a meter and some test strips and then you will know if the numbers might have been inflated at the vets due to stress. When they are not in their home environment, their numbers are often a lot higher. My cat is almost 500 at the vet and at home, has rarely broken 400 and his highest is usually in the low 300's. What type of insulin are you using?

Soon someone with more experience will be along to walk you through some ideas. This community is filled with very knowledgeable people as far as diabetes and what you can do to get your cat to cooperate.

Best to you.
 
You are at the right place!! The people here can walk you through anything! I know some days are better than others and sometimes its hard not to get discouraged however it will take time.
The time it takes will help you build a stronger bond than ever before with your cat. Do try cooking a little fresh chicken. I buy it when its on sale at the grocery store and cook a package at a time and keep it in the fridge. Most cats do like some real chicken. When Im in a hurry or dont have time to cook it myself then I buy some caned chicken. I keep a few cans of it on hand for an emergency. When I cook it myself I find that its really a lot cheaper than buying treats plus I use the juice as well. I put a little of the juice on the Fancy Feast and she seems to like it a lot better that way. She was a "dry" cat food cat and I never thought she would be eating canned but she is!! Just don't give up!! With a little time and a little help you WILL get there!
Keep us posted and how its going and a BIG WELCOME!!
Terriy
 
Welcome to FDMB!

We strongly encourage home blood glucose testing using a human glucometer. Home testing will let you know if it is safe to give the insulin, and how low the glucose is going with the dose given. Meters many of us include the WalMart ReliOn Confirm, Confirm Micro, or Prime which all use small blood droplets, and often are available 24 hrs - helpful if your cat goes too low and you need to monitor. A generic version of the Confirm and Confirm Micro are available from our shopping partner ADW (link at top of page), as the Glucocard 01 and Glucocard 01 Micro. Let us know once you have your testing supplies of glucometer, test strips, and lancets (27 gauge to start) and we'll help you learn how to do this.

An unregulated diabetic cat may need as much as 50% more food than a normal cat, so increasing the food may help keep him in a better temper. Its OK to leave it out for the 10 hours after the shot, then pick it up 2 hours before the next preshot glucose test and use insulin shot. Smearing it across a wide plate may helps slow him down to reduce scarf 'n' barf from happening when he gets too hungry.

My signature link Secondary Monitoring Tools has some additional tactics for assessing your cat including urine ketone monitoring. Ketones are a by-product of fat breakdown. Too many ketones may indicate diabetic ketoacidosis, a potentially fatal, expensive to treat, complication of diabetes.
 
I have been there sweetie. I was so frustrated too with Abigail. She just never seemed to be thriving. I started home testing and got her on better food and her numbers are looking good. Please forgive my spreadsheet. I have not been recording their numbers. I really need to. Been a busy month of May! I came here and learned about lots of things my vet didn't even know. Regarding dry food- if your cat is like mine Abigail will starve before she eats wet food. I am trying to transition and since she is on insulin she has to eat. The folks here turned me on to Young Again zero carb. It made a big difference in her numbers and I was using the "prescription" food from the vet.
 
Was that curve done at home or the vets?

What kind of insulin?

What flavours of fancy feast and friskies? Not all are low carb - best ones are the pates.

we can help, just need to know more

Wendy
 
I wasn't seeing any of these replies-sorry!!!! Thanks for all of your input. Since I first posted, we had a situation wher my husband and I both gave him a 2.5 unit dose. Raced him to the vet. They monitored him all day but his blood sugar did not drop. Due to this the vet decided to have him tested for acromegaly.after I looked that up I cried a LOT. I haven't gotten the results back yet. I exPect to have then mon or tues. He is eating mostly canned now- 9lives, Friskies and Fancy Feast. All pate. I am monitoring him at home when he will let me. He us on 5 units twice a day now. Yesterday pre **** was 325 am and 493 pm. Very discouraging. He seems ok-bright eyes, plays a little. His fur is greasy but he has gained some weight. He is not as ravenousky hungry over the last 2 weeks.
 
Kaia's Mom said:
I wasn't seeing any of these replies-sorry!!!! Thanks for all of your input. Since I first posted, we had a situation wher my husband and I both gave him a 2.5 unit dose. Raced him to the vet. They monitored him all day but his blood sugar did not drop. Due to this the vet decided to have him tested for acromegaly.after I looked that up I cried a LOT. I haven't gotten the results back yet. I exPect to have then mon or tues. He is eating mostly canned now- 9lives, Friskies and Fancy Feast. All pate. I am monitoring him at home when he will let me. He us on 5 units twice a day now. Yesterday pre **** was 325 am and 493 pm. Very discouraging. He seems ok-bright eyes, plays a little. His fur is greasy but he has gained some weight. He is not as ravenousky hungry over the last 2 weeks.
Click to expand...

How often are you testing him? Yes, the preshot numbers maybe be high but what's his numbers in mid cycle?
Also, what insulin are you using? It makes a big difference to some cats.
It's great that you are feeding all low carb canned food; it will help him to get his best numbers.
Had he lost much weight before you started giving insulin? Is the weight gain just putting his old weight back on, or is he gaining more than he had before?

Wonderful news that he's no long ravenous; they truly are starving before they start getting insulin and learn to extract what they need from the food.

If your vet has already sent the blood draw to MSU for the IGF-1 test, that's great news, but the crying.... hey, no need for that.... he will still be the same lovable cat only he needs more insulin than other cats and a bit more care in other areas.
Two of my cats tested positive for acromegaly, and we did just fine. One of them actually stopped needing insulin over a year ago, in January 2012, so cheer up and enjoy all your time with your cat.
There is an upside to a positive result for acromegaly.... it means that your cat has a perfectly functional pancreas and is NOT diabetic. He actually has a very strong pancreas but currently has diabetes because of the acromegaly.

Please post when you get your test results; many people can help you with whatever you are told.

Gayle
 
We can help no matter whether he has acromgealy or not. But it will involve home testing if you are up to it... That way you get a better and cheaper idea of what his blood is doing and when to change dose. It will give your vet more valuable data too.

No need to cry, with a little work we can get your cat happy and healthy again if you are open to it?


Wendy
 
You have no idea how helpful all of this information is. my vet basically told me that acromegaly is a death sentence within a few months of diagnosis. (And I apologize-of course I meant pre SHOT, not pre **** lol...)

I have done 3 curves on him at home. His glucose doesn't move much all day and never goes below 300. Yes I an definitely up for doing whatever it takes to help him. I will look into the freeze dried treats as well so that we can continue with his clicker training.

Insulin is Lantus.

Mid cycle numbers are also high.

His weight gain is back to his previous weight, not in addition.


I need to check into "Young Again". I have everyone eating moist food almost all the time. When I have to resort to dry (one of the other guys had a bladder infection last week that kicked his Herpes infection into high gear, making him not want to eat anything but dry), I have been giving them Orijins which is low carb and high protein.

And yes, the blood test did go to MSU. I'm glad to gave the support here BEFORE I get the results. I foster kittens and cats for a rescue here in CO. My husband and I have had over 180 kiddos go through here on their way to forever homes. We are completely committed to spending as much if not a great deal more energy on Kaia to make sure that he receives the best care possible. We are cat people to the bone.

Thanks again, and I will update when I get the results. As I am writing this, he is on the bed talking to me. :RAHCAT
 
I just posted this in another persons topic. Copying it here for you too.
It's not just the quality of the dry food, but the carb content which will make a difference. There are a couple of dry foods that are lower carb than the Orijen you bought and might help a great deal with the BG control for a diabetic cat.

1. Natura/Innova Evo Cat & Kitten 8% carb but it has been hit by another recall.
2. Young Again Zero Carb, mail order only, expensive, some cats refuse to eat the different sized chunks, a couple of cats have achieved remission on this dry food. Manufacturer claims 0% carb but carb calculators indicate 5%
3. Nature's Variety Raw Instinct chicken 7%
4. Wellness Core Grain-Free Original Formula (tan gold bag)11%

Most dry foods are coated with animal digest and that is what cats love the taste of. There is a product called Fortiflora that you can buy to sprinkle on the canned food. Similar to the animal digest coating of the dry foods and cats love the taste.
Click to expand...

The Orijen dry cat foods are higher carb then we recommend for diabetic cats. Orijen Cat and Kitten and the Six Fish are both 17% carbs on guaranteed analysis basis.

The water content in the wet food is very important for diabetic cats. When their BG (blood glucose) levels are over renal threshold, 230-280, excess glucose is excreted in the urine. This sugar rich environment makes diabetic cats more prone to UTI's and kidney infection. It's another reason we recommend wet food as much as possible in a diabetic cats diet.
 
You do say you have been doing some home testing. We have a standardized color coded spreadsheet to track the BG numbers and insulin dosages. We would love for you to create one and link it into your signature to see what is going on.

Directions here: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=18207 There are people here that can help you with the setup and signature link if you have a problem.

The most current week or two of data would be most helpful.

Would you be willing to do that? Please?
 
Three curves is great, but here's the thing.. If he is bouncing, depending on when you did the curve you could easily miss him going low. Or he could go low at night. So we need a bit more focused testing to be really sure. Best way to do this is, for say the next three days get the following tests

Before every shot
Midday (5-7hours after shot) and/or spot checks at other times during the day (or night)
Before bed

And if you put it in the spreadsheet like deb said, we can look at it and see if we can tell what's going on... We can help with the sheet.

Let us know.
Wendy
 
Ok-I copied the spreadsheet into the signature. Now, every day do I fill it out here or where I've saved it on my computer and paste it in or ???

I got a reading of 298 on him today 8 hours after his shot. that's the lowest value I have ever seen, and there was much rejoicing. I'm using the lancets without the popper, as he seems to dislike the sound the popper makes. Is this how you all do it? Poor guy-the lancet goes all the way through his ear.

I was feeding him EVO (when he got dry food which was not often and not much) before the recall. I went out and got Wellness today. They have all had it before and seem to like it. He is getting very good about eating the moist food, but there are days when he craves something crunchy. Oh yeah, and every morning around 4 am.

Still no word on the test results.
 
I can't access your sheet, can u "share " it?

Caregivers vary, some people use the tool and others freehand the lancet. It's up to you and whatever you and your cat find works best!

For something crunchy you can try sprinkle freeze dried chicken on his wet?
 
You could also cut up the meat from a raw chicken thigh for him to chew on. Raw meat chunks are good for cleaning and sharpening their teeth while strengthing their mouths. If his teeth are exercised on raw meat, he won't miss the crunchiness of the dry as much. I know it's a long-shot because I am an advocate for a raw diet because my cats are so healthy and happy on it. Cats mouths, teeth, and digestive systems are designed for this kind of food. My cats sit around the bowl drooling while I am cutting it up. Just a suggestion - I don't expect other people to be as crazy as me - it kind of is my soap box. See catinfo.org

I also support free-hand lancing because I can control the force of the poke. I don't have to poke very hard or deep to get a drop. The ear really does learn to bleed and my sugarfoster doesn't seem to feel it if I am gentle.
 
Cooking the raw removes the nutrients and makes it softer. The raw is tougher and better for their teeth and is like what a cat would eat in the wild if it caught a chicken or bird. You should see them labor a little with it but if he takes to it, he will come back for more. A complete raw diet includes ground raw bone along with liver and heart to make up for the cats needed nutrients. But for a snack to strengthen and clean his teeth raw pieces are just fine. I cut it up with kitchen scissors and my cats grab it before it hits the bowl.
 
I may try the chicken thigh idea today. I know cats are carnivores, but I'm vegan..lol :-x it grosses me out, but I get that they need it.

I've had 3 readings in the last 2 days come out under 300, which is a first. Maybe things are finally starting to even out. STILL no word on the test. I will call today. I found out that all 5 of my foster kittens have ringworm, so I'm stressed about that too. Ugh. At least they are isolated in the basement. My adult cats (including Kai) have had it before, so I'm not too worried about them.

Trying to figure out how to set up the spreadsheet still..do I open the one that is in my signature and enter numbers on it? Someone said I needed to hit "share"? Working on it...
 
Ringworm spores are AIR BORN!!! If they are anywhere near the intake vents for your AC, spores may be spread throught the house and every cat is potentially exposed.

Merck Manual Online Dermatophytosis in Dogs and Cats Info on how to decontaminate environment.
 
That's how I do it - I click on the link in my signature and if I can't add numbers then I go to top right hand corner to sign in to my google account. The share button is there too. I think if you choose "anybody with link" from the menu, it allows the expert number watchers to view it. When you update it, you do not have to save it or anything. Google updates the link automatically.
 
I'm sorry, I don't know if this is the right place to post my question? I have been reading through many of the posts and responses and I am panicking because I need some support. I just got the phone call that my 13 year old tortie, Lola, has diabetes and I'm overwhelmed. It feels like yesterday that I had to put down my 19 year old Peaches and there has not been a day that's gone by in 4 years that I could even mention her and not get crushed all over again. I will do whatever it takes for Lola but money is not unlimited for me. I struggle with a terminal illness myself and my income is not stable. The kind vet wants to keep her all day Monday to watch the glucose curve...
After reading some things online, is this necessary? Is it something I can do? Safely? I don't want to waste money on things that I can do myself, but I certainly don't want to sacrifice Lola's care. Can someone help please??
 
Terajo and Lola the kitty.....

I started a new thread on Health...should be at the top.......New and frustrated...newbie

Please look for response in that thread ....your post was way down in another thread and might have been missed.
 
re: contagious.. yeah, I know. We have had ringworm here before. 2 of my own cats came to me with it, and are pretty much immune to it now. Once this group has gotten well and been adopted we will do the full cleaning protocol.

Working on the spreadsheet. It is not being very user friendly right now.
 
If you need help with the spreadsheet, just ask. There are people here that can help. Sometimes, google is throwing a little snit but will get over it.

Ok, I see the SS in your signature. but when I try to access it, google wants me to sign on. I believe you need to change the share options in the upper right hand corner to 'whoever has the link'. Google drive is giving me that stupid 'blank page' error again when trying to access but I believe this is what you need to do to let us see the SS. That gives us read only access.

How are things going with you and Kaia kitty today?

Would you be willing to add some data to your signature to help us help you better? Totally optional of course. Signature data takes about 5 minutes max.

Would you please provide us with some more information and put this in your user control panel? It helps us to help you better. This will take about 5 minutes of your time.
Think of this as having some very useful information at our finger tips for those that are replying to your posts. One reason we like to see this information in your signature is because if there is ever an emergency situation like a possible hypoglycemic episode, we don’t have to ask a lot of questions like what meter you are using to give you the best advice. Doing this signature update is totally optional, but it does help us to help you better.
If you are willing to do this, would you please do those updates when you get a chance? Thanks.
Go to the upper left corner of your screen and click on the words, User Control Panel
On the next screen, a row of tabs is presented. Select the Profile tab
On the next screen, there are a number of choices along the left hand side. Select Edit Profile.
Go down to the location field and enter your country, state/province, and city if you are willing to share that info.
Click on submit to save this change.

Still in the User Control Panel, Profile tab, this time select Edit Signature from the left hand list of options.
A free form text box appears.
We like to see information like your name, your cats name age and sex, the diagnosis date for the diabetes like this (DX 4/30/13), what meter you are using for testing, what insulin you are using , what you are feeding (wet or dry, what brands/style of food), any complicating health issues your cat may have, any additional medications your cat is receiving. If you are using a pet specific meter like an Alphatrak or Ipet, please change the font size on that text from Normal to Large (using the drop down arrow list in the middle of the editing commands)

Click on submit to save this information. Now, this will appear at the end of every post you make. You can update the info when you need to.

There is an additional document you can create to provide even more information about your cat. This is also optional to create this google document and link it into your signature. The profile is in addition to the synopsis info in your signature. See this link on the how to's of profile creation. http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=79123
Click to expand...
 
yes-I will work on this tonight when I get home (spreadsheet and signature).

Kaia is looking pretty good. he has had several readings under 300 this week which is GREAT!!! he and his little flame point friend had an adventure this morning because I'm SO TIRED when I feed him at 5 am that I opened the window on the side without the screen, and they had a little walkabout until the neighbor rang the doorbell at 8. Argh!!!!!!
 
he and his little flame point friend had an adventure this morning because I'm SO TIRED when I feed him at 5 am that I opened the window on the side without the screen, and they had a little walkabout until the neighbor rang the doorbell at 8. Argh!!!!!!
Click to expand...
:lol: :lol: :lol:

They went on a little walkabout this morning did they? ohmygod_smile Wanted more than just a breath of fresh air? :o So glad to hear your neighbor found them and they are safe back at home.

Have a good day at work and we'll check back on you tonight.
 
Thank you! It's actually my first day! (long story!!!!!!!!!)

Oh, they were quite proud of themselves, and were showing off for the other kids. "Smell that? That's OUTSIDE you smell on my feet!" :mrgreen:
 
The spreadsheet is giving me a lot of problems.

I called the vet today to see if they have the test results back, but they haven't. It's been 2 weeks.
Kaia is doing really well lately! His fur is soft and glossy, and he has been willing to play a little with his Da Bird. Right now, he is sleeping at the foot of the bed which I have seen him do maybe twice in the last year. He is also within 6 inches of his mortal enemy cat.
 
Sounds like he is doing well but lets see if we can work out what the SS issue is. Firstly, are you sure you are logged in? Can you see the file/edit etc at the top?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top