New and frustrated.....newbie...TeraJo and Lola

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Hope + (((Baby)))GA

Hope + (((Baby)))GA

Member Since 2009
New and frustrated
TeraJo24 » Thu Jun 27, 2013 12:10 am

I'm sorry, I don't know if this is the right place to post my question? I have been reading through many of the posts and responses and I am panicking because I need some support. I just got the phone call that my 13 year old tortie, Lola, has diabetes and I'm overwhelmed. It feels like yesterday that I had to put down my 19 year old Peaches and there has not been a day that's gone by in 4 years that I could even mention her and not get crushed all over again. I will do whatever it takes for Lola but money is not unlimited for me. I struggle with a terminal illness myself and my income is not stable. The kind vet wants to keep her all day Monday to watch the glucose curve...
After reading some things online, is this necessary? Is it something I can do? Safely? I don't want to waste money on things that I can do myself, but I certainly don't want to sacrifice Lola's care. Can someone help please??
 
TeraJo and Lola,

Welcome to the board!
Yes, this is something that you can do at home that doesn't need to be done at the vet.

First some questions.
Has the vet decided on an insulin for Lola, and do you know which one he's prescribing?
Do you think you would be able to get a human glucometer and learn how to test the blood glucose at home?
Do you know if your vet is supportive of home-testing?
Did your vet mention diet? A low-carb canned food diet is what works best for diabetic cats. No prescription food is needed. You can feed Friskees pate varieties or Fancy Feast classics, or any number of other easily available canned foods. What does Lola eat now?

At first, diabetes is overwhelming for just about everyone. It was for me. But with a good insulin, and a logical dose, along with a proper diet and home testing, this is something that can be managed at home once you learn the steps. And it won't cost you a fortune either. We can help with all of that.

Now that you're "here", you're never alone with this.
Carl
 
Thank you so much Carl. My vet hasn't prescribed the insulin yet. We did a blood panel and it came back with glucose over 5oo but no abnormal ketone levels. I am most willing and eager to learn as much as possible and I will go to Walmart this weekend for a glucose monitor and testing kit + syringes to get started on the preparations. The vet wants to keep her on Monday to monitor her glucose curve, which I assume, helps them determine which insulin to use? Is that first monitoring that's done best to have handled by the vet? I believe she is open minded to assisting with home care. She has ordered
One more test with the sample they took so I will speak to her more
Tomorrow and ask. I actually brought up the topic of
Drastic diet change being able to eventually stabilize her to the point of not needing insulin. She asked me if I was a nurse and I said, "No" but I have studied the powerul effects of diet, nutrition and alternative health choices for 15 years during my own health journey. My father was also recently diagnosed as pre diabetic and given oral medication. After a dramatic change in his diet and a year later, he is nearly to the point where he can get off meds.
That being said, she of course recommended no dry food right away and agreed that changing her diet could eventually stabilize her to the point of not needing the insulin. We both agreed that for the time being, it would be best to
Combine it with a healthier diet to bring her levels down immediately.
 
You'll need to know which insulin before you buy the syringes, since insulin comes in two different "formulas" (U40 and U100 depending on the type) and you will get syringes appropriate to the insulin she prescribes. Many states require a prescription for the syringes as well.

The "big three" insulins we feel work the best for cats are Lantus, Levemir and Prozinc. Other types of insulin don't seem to work well for cats.

My cat never had a curve run at the vet. They did treat him immediately because he also suffered from diabetic ketoacidosis and spent three days in the ER. But once he was prescribed PZI (which is an "older" version of Prozinc), the vet showed me how to test and how to give a shot, and Bob never had to have his BG levels checked at the vet again.

If Lola has been a dry food junkie prior to this, it's very likely that a switch to low carb canned food will drop her numbers significantly. If at all possible, it's best to make that switch prior to starting insulin. For some cats, that is all it takes, and they never need insulin. At the very least, it will lower her numbers overall, and that might determine that her starting dose of insulin would be lower than it would be if she were still eating higher carb food like dry food.
 
Welcome TeraJo and her tortie Lola. The best place you never expected to be.

This can be a scary time, full of uncertainty and stress. Feeling overwhelmed is normal. Now that you have found us, we can help you.

With our experience in the day to day management of feline diabetes and the help of your vet, we will get you to the point where you will easily be able to help your cat Lola.

Some good low carb canned food options are Fancy Feast classic pate style, Friskies pate style, Wellness. We look for foods that are <10% carbs for our diabetic kitties. There are a couple of dry food options also if your cat is a "dry food addict". We prefer the canned because it has so many other benefits such as urinary tract and kidney health with the increased water consumption.

Where do you live?

We may have a member close to you that could help with the home testing.

Please, ask us any questions you need to. We have a broad collective experience with the day to day management of diabetes and can answer most questions.
 
Welcome to FDMB!

One of our favorite references for good feline nutrition education is Cat Info. There is a printable food list with nutrition values for protein, carbs, and fat for most major Us brands. Any with 10% calories from carbohydrates are good for regular diet. Should he need insulin, you'll also want a few cans of high carb gravied foods in case he were ever headed into possible hypo (on insulin, < 40- 50 mg/dL of glucose, though rare cats may have symptoms at higher numbers).

An inexpensive choice I feed is Friskies Pate Turkey and Giblets. With 14 cats in the house, I get the 13 oz cans and the lowest I've found them is $0.78/can at WalMart.
 
My Lola loves her wet canned food so keeping her on that will be no problem. The vet would like to start her with Prozinc. I would like to purchase the glucose monitor and testing strips right away. can anyone recommend the brand and where to get it? I live in Stockton, CA. I am going out tonight to stock up on some low carb canned food for her. She loves Wellness and basically anything canned. Any recommendations for low carb treats as well? I would also like to think about supplementing her diet with raw meats but I will be sure to get free range and hormone/antibiotic free meats since they will be raw.
 
Since you are going shopping.. Here's a list.

Getting started shopping list
1. Meter ie Walmart Relion Confirm or Micro.
2. Matching strips
3. Lancets - little sticks to poke the ear to get blood . new members usually start with a larger gauge lancet such as 28g or 29g until the ear learns to bleed. Optional - lancing tool.
4. Cotton balls to stem the blood
5. Neosporin or Polysporin ointment with pain relief to heal the wound
6. Mini flashlight (optional) - useful to help see the ear veins in dark cats, and to press against
7. Ketone urine test strips ie ketodiastix - Important to check ketones when blood is high
8. Sharps container - to dispose of waste syringes and lancets.
9. Treats for the cat - like freeze dried chicken
10. Karo syrup/corn syrup or honey if you dont have it at home - for hypo emergencies to bring blood sugar up fast
11. A couple of cans of fancy feast gravy lovers or other high carb gravy food- for hypo emergencies to bring blood sugar up fast

Wendy
 
Thank you Wendy&Tiggy!
You all are a lifeline for us. I can't tell you how much I appreciate all of the advice and I am sure I will have so many more questions!
 
Has anyone heard of Prozinc?
That is what the vet has recommended to start her with.
Any thoughts from anyone?
I picked up the Relion micro kit, blood glucose and ketone strips last night from Walmart but they don't carry Prozinc. I am doing a search online and I saw that 1800PetMeds has it for $129. I may get the syringes from Walmart there too since they are probably less expensive.
I also picked up some Fancy Feast Classics and in the refrigerated pet food section they have fresh cat food that comes in little bits that you can freeze and use as treats. It doesn't have any frains, just protein and some vegetables.
Also, is the ear the only place to get the blood sample from? Any tips there?

Thanks for all of the help!
 
Of course we have heard of Prozinc. ;-) It's a good insulin for cats. More flexible dosing schedule than with the Lantus and Levimir insulins. In and out, no depot to be concerned with.

Prozince is a U-40 strength insulin so you will need the U-40 needles. Unless you use the conversion chart.

in the refrigerated pet food section they have fresh cat food that comes in little bits that you can freeze and use as treats. It doesn't have any frains, just protein and some vegetables.
Click to expand...
Anything with vegetables is going to have carbs. You want pure protein, no spices. Here is a list. http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=9172 of low carb healthy treats.

Also, is the ear the only place to get the blood sample from? Any tips there?
Click to expand...
Ear is easiest. Some people test on the paw pad.

Here are tips for testing. https://docs.google.com/document/d/13c_CPZVKz27fD_6aVbsguadJKvjSrSAkD7flgPPhEag/pub

Here are tips for making your cat comfortable with the testing. https://sites.google.com/site/michelangeloprofilefdmb/feline-diabetes/ear-testing-psychology

Read these over and than ask any questions you may have.
 
Terajo, When you get a chance I love to see some info in your signature. It's totally optional, but it does help us to help you better.

Would you please provide us with some more information and put this in your user control panel? It helps us to help you better. This will take about 5 minutes of your time.
Think of this as having some very useful information at our finger tips for those that are replying to your posts. One reason we like to see this information in your signature is because if there is ever an emergency situation like a possible hypoglycemic episode, we don’t have to ask a lot of questions like what meter you are using to give you the best advice. Doing this signature update is totally optional, but it does help us to help you better.
If you are willing to do this, would you please do those updates when you get a chance? Thanks.
Go to the upper left corner of your screen and click on the words, User Control Panel
On the next screen, a row of tabs is presented. Select the Profile tab
On the next screen, there are a number of choices along the left hand side. Select Edit Profile.
Go down to the location field and enter your country, state/province, and city if you are willing to share that info.
Click on submit to save this change.

Still in the User Control Panel, Profile tab, this time select Edit Signature from the left hand list of options.
A free form text box appears.
We like to see information like your name, your cats name age and sex, the diagnosis date for the diabetes like this (DX 4/30/13), what meter you are using for testing, what insulin you are using , what you are feeding (wet or dry, what brands/style of food), any complicating health issues your cat may have, any additional medications your cat is receiving. If you are using a pet specific meter like an Alphatrak or Ipet, please change the font size on that text from Normal to Large (using the drop down arrow list in the middle of the editing commands)

Click on submit to save this information. Now, this will appear at the end of every post you make. You can update the info when you need to.

There is an additional document you can create to provide even more information about your cat. This is also optional to create this google document and link it into your signature. The profile is in addition to the synopsis info in your signature. See this link on the how to's of profile creation. http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=79123
Click to expand...
 
Yes, Prozinc is one of our three favorite insulins. The other two are Lantus and Levemir. The "L's" are human insulins that work extremely well on cats. Prozinc is only available from a vet (or with a vet prescription you can get it online). It was actually designed specifically for use on cats.

You'll need to get the correct U40 type syringes for Prozinc, and you can get them online or directly from your vet. You said online the Prozinc is $129? That sounds right, but will your vet get it and give it to you for the same price? It should be a 10ml vial?

What's important is how much experience your vet has with Prozinc. How many cats has she prescribed it for, and how did they do on it? The other thing is the starting dose. The AAHA has a set of guidelines for starting dose of insulin, and for most cats it's 1u or less, twice a day. Did your vet mention dosage at all?

These are the AAHA guidelines:

http://www.aahanet.org/PublicDocuments/AAHADiabetesGuidelines.pdf
Three or four pages down is where the dose information is.

Most cats are well regulated on insulin at 0.5 U/kg q 12 hours, with a range of 0.2 to 0.8 U/kg.
The pane lrecommends a starting dose of 0.25 U/kg q 12 hours, based on an estimate of the cat’slean body weight.
This equatesto 1 U q 12 hours in an average cat. Even in a very large cat, the starting dose ofinsulin should not exceed 2 U per cat q 12 hour
Click to expand...

If your vet says a dose of higher than 1u twice a day, you might ask her "why?". Sometimes there are valid reasons for a higher dose, but if so, you should know what they are.
 
TeraJo24 said:
...I also picked up some Fancy Feast Classics and in the refrigerated pet food section they have fresh cat food that comes in little bits that you can freeze and use as treats. It doesn't have any frains, just protein and some vegetables...
Click to expand...

Peas, potatoes, beets, and carrots are starchy vegetables; cats don't need those in their diet. In fact, they don't need vegetables, nor fruits, nor grains. Cats are obligate carnivores, designed to thrive on meat/poultry based diets. A printable food list at Cat Info has the % calories from carbohydrates for numerous US cat foods. Pick any with 10% or fewer calories from carbohydrates for routine feeding. Snag a few high carb gravied foods in case you ever need to intervene for low numbers.
 
I have spoken to the vet and office staff a couple of times over the last week and a half. They seem to be very supportive of my having Lola's "curve" day at home. I'll take the day off and be able to monitor her at home where I know she is most comfortable and I will be in contact with the vet to be able to relay the numbers that day. This will not only make it easier on her, being at home, but it will be me who is with her all day comforting her. Not to mention the cost savings. That is part of what held me up was accumulating the funds to purchase the insulin and syringes after I went and got all the other supplies. I wanted to make sure she would be completely safe doing it at home and I was reassured that many people prefer to do the curve testing that way.
So, after having ordered the Prozinc on Friday morning (7.5.13) from VetRx.com, I called the vet's office to let them know they would be contacted by the company to obtain Lola's prescription and then it would be shipped overnight. I went and picked up the syringes from the vet's office on Saturday but they still hadn't received the prescription request. Unfortunately, as of today, still no update. I will call the vet tomorrow morning to check once more and then contact the company directly if they have not yet sent the prescription request. I can't imagine paying an extra $35 for overnight shipping should take 5 days to arrive? Are there any other recommended sites online that you all use? Any where you can purchase the syringes as well? They were $25 for a box of 100 at the vet. I am most impatient as I watch my little tortie eat her fancy feast food and act as if she is starving because she is not getting the nourishment from her food.
 
Hi there!
I have a 13yo tortie called Lola, too! :-D It's her brother who is diabetic, though.

Have you started home-testing Lola yet?
If so, what are her blood glucose levels like before she starts her insulin?

Juliet
 
I get a box of 100 insulin syringes from Wal-Mart for $12-13. They are the U-100 insulin syringes though. You need a conversion chart to use those syringes with the U-40 syringes. We can get you that conversion chart if you want. The 3/10 cc U-100 insulin syringes with 1/2 unit markings on the barrel will allow you to get doses as little as 0.2U with the use of the conversion chart.

Our shopping partner. ADW, link at top right of screen, has U-40 insulin syringes for $13.99 a box of 100.

If you want to save more money, we recommend the Walmart Relion line of glucometers, Confirm, Micro, Prime. They are made for humans but I would estimate 95% of the people here use a human glucometer for blood glucose testing. Even those people that start off with the expensive Alphatrak 2 soon switch over to the less expensive test strip cost of the human mater.

You can get Relion Prime test strips for $0.18 each where a Alphatrak test strip is $1 to$2 depending on vet markup.
 
Thank you everyone!
It is such a relief to feel like I have support from people going through the same thing. It makes it less scary and I truly appreciate it.
Hope: Thank you for the website link... I'll be going on today to check out the Prozinc.
Juliet: Today is Lola's first day of insulin. I began testing her bg levels last night and this morning at 6:00am before any food her level was at 275. I gave her breakfast and then started with her 1/2 unit of insulin. I have the timer set so in 40min. and every two hours after wards I will be testing her bg levels and I have kept the readings in a little diary so we can track the changes. I am nervous, of course... I had her up on my lap and she was purring through it all (testing, insulin shots and all)... sweet little girl doesn't even realize what's going on. I think she just trusts me enough to know whatever I am doing is to try and make her feel better.
Deb: Thank you for the tip on syringes. I will be checking Walmart for my next box. I thought the $25 was incredibly high at my vet, I just wanted to make sure I could get everything to get her started today. I purchased the Relion glucometer and it is very user friendly.
... So far, so good everyone... fingers and toes crossed and lots of prayers!
 
Hey! Go you!

That's a brilliant start.
Lola sounds like an angel! (Not like mine at all.... :roll: )
With a preshot number of 275, I think you've probably dosed her about perfectly too.

FMDB has a system for post Blood Glucose (BG) numbers, which allows you (& us) to easily see what's happening throughout a curve:

AMPS: 275 (<--- Morning pre-shot)
+1: (<--- 1 hour post-shot)
+2:
etc....etc....until:

PMPS: (<---evening pre-shot)
+1:
+2:

etc.... you get the idea!

Good work, anyway. Lola's obviously in loving hands.

Juliet
 
Then, after you have a few numbers written in your little notebook, we have a helpful spreadsheet you can enter them in and share that spreadsheet with us to get helpful suggestions.

For those people home testing, we have a wonderful way to keep track of the test data and shots. There is a google spreadsheet template you can use so you don’t have to start from scratch and figure out what you want it to look like.

We have instructions on how to set one up. how to setup a SS and link to your signatureThe color coding is helpful to see trends over time in how the insulin is working. We even help set them up for people that may be technology challenged. Please ask if you need help.

Having a SS set up and linked to your signature is a great way to get some suggestions from the experienced people on FDMB. You can even share the spreadsheet with your vet, by email. It's totally optional but it can get you some great advice on how to manage your cat with his BG numbers.

What do you think? You can look at Wink's SS in my signature to see what one looks like. I found it invaluable.
Click to expand...

Keeping our fingers and paws crossed for Lola in your sugardance journey. Let us know how things go.
 
great job on the testing! Thats the biggest hurdle for sure. Would love to see that spreadsheet too - helps you, your vet, and us track whats going on and help to advise you!
 
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