Never glucose tested.

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Nereus & Jennifer

Member Since 2012
I am going tomorrow to get a glucose tester looking at the relion micro from Wallmart or the Wallgreens System Radiant Red? Any suggestions.
I have been avoiding doing the testing but realize after reading posts how necessary it is. I posted once before when he was fairly newly diagnosed and had gotten very sick over a weekend. Nereus is a rescue cat with many issues, FIV+, asthma, glaucoma, a bad eye,( eye vet would like to remove), ringworm or some fungus, eye herpes, IBD or intestinal cancer and Diabetes( been about 2 months since diagnosis).Just this last year he has had the glaucoma, herpes, ringworm, and intestinal problems and diabetes.
He is about 12 and I have had him for about 8 years with just eye and asthma issues. He isa big gray tiger stripe long hair almost looks like a Maine Coon.
(when I rescued him he was an abandoned cat, he had a dilated open eye and probably a fractured jaw so his tongue hangs out most of the time.) My vet who I love said to give him 2 units Lantus every 12 hours she tested him about 2 weeks later and said he was good and keep up that level. She did say I could do blood glucose testing if I wanted to. So now after coming to this site I see that I need to.
He has had weak back legs and I am afraid that is symptomatic of the diabetes? Will it go away if I get his blood glucose right?
And my Vet said to come in and she would show me how to test him. I can also get all his numbers form when he has been tested from her as well. I am embaressed to say I am not even sure what they are.
He gets 4 pills 2x a day and eye drops 2x aday and lysine.
He eats canned am and pm but has dry food available for snacks and shares his inside house with 2 tuxedo cats and a tortoiseshell all sisters.
thank you
 
Regarding the food, honestly, you need to remove ALL dry food and feed all your cats only low carb canned food. It is the only way you will get consistency with the BG and it is much better for all the cats to eat this way. For more information as the reasons, please read Dr. Lisa's site: www.catinfo.org - she can explain much better than me.

It's good that your vet is supportive of home testing, we cannot begin to tell you how important this is. By injecting insulin blindly, you have no idea what you are doing and it is something you would never do to yourself or another human. So, good that you are going to get a meter.

The walmart relion is just fine to use. I never heard of the radiant red and would advise against using an unknown meter. DO NOT get any meter with TRU in the name. I know Walgreen does sell this. It's unreliable.

I am curious how the dose of 2 units was determined. Was this the starting dose? We recommend on this board to start at 1 unit or even 1/2 unit and to go slow with adjusting the dose and do it in small increments of 1/2 unit at a time. Have you visited the lantus group yet? If not, I suggest you read all the starred posts, which will give you the detailed information you need to know about working with Lantus.

Regarding the weakness in the legs, this is most likely diabetic neuropathy and regulating the insulin and vitamin B12 - methylcobalamin is how to help this condition. It must be this type of B12, any other will not help.

You want to mix 3-5 mg per day in the food. Whatever the body doesn't absorb will be peed out. and it is ok if the other cats eat it too, it won't hurt them. This is the one I used for Maui. You can find this in any store that sells vitamins.

http://www.vitacost.com/vitacost-vitami ... 0-capsules

If you would look at the name of the pills you are giving and the eye drops, it will help us to help you. Some eye drops contain steroids and that can just aggravate the diabetes - as steroids has been known to cause diabetes in cats.
 
Welcome Jennifer and Nereus!

I use the Relion Micro and the plus is it has the cheapest strips available- that is the one thing you need to really look at because while you only buy the meter once, you buy the strips a LOT :lol: ! Micro strips at Wal-mart cost $36. for 100 but you can get 250 for $72 at the ADW site- linked from the FDMB sale page- it is called Akray instead of Relion but it is the same strips- basically buy 4 boxes and get 1 box free.

Food... the dry food you leave out for snacks will continue to raise his BG levels and his chance of becoming diet controlled will be rather slim. Changing to an all wet diet for him and the other furkids is a better way to go all around- those than need to loose weight will, those who need to gain weight can, they will poop less once you get rid of the air-filled candy you are giving them. And don't think it is cheaper to feed canned- we have members on here with 8 and 11 cats and they all get fed canned food. While they spend more on food- and they do shop around to get the best quality that they can afford- they save on litter costs and don't have to worry about things such as crystals and other UTI's because of a dry food diet. Their fur is silkier and soft as well. And if you add water to the canned food to make it more like gravy (recommended) that increases the water intake beyond the canned food moisture.

Here are two links:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc ... hYXc#gid=0
and
http://binkyspage.tripod.com/canfood.html

Good luck on the switch.
 
I like the Relion Micro from Walmart. It's small, easy to hold, and comes with a carrying case that will also hold your lancets and test strips making it all very convenient. Also, you can order the Arkray test strips from American Diabetes Wholesale and save about $0.08 per strip, which adds up over time!

You'll do fine home testing since you already have a routine down of giving Nereus pills and eye drops. In the beginning, using a old sock with about 1/4 to 1/2 cup of rice in the bottom and tied at the top, heated in the microwave for about 12 - 15 seconds, and rubbed gently on the ear you are going to prick helps get the blood flowing. I used to alternate rubbing Pumbaa's ear with the sock and rubbing his neck with it, to make it a pleasurable experience. Now, 3 months later, I seldom use the rice sock anymore, and can just rub his ear a little before pricking to get enough blood for the test.

Hillary brought up some very important points, and people here will be very helpful when you have questions/concerns.

Good luck to you and your little guy!

Suze
 
Okay I am armed and dangerous with a Relion Micro. JK
Anyway to I just start testing every two hours. I am a total Novice, I don't even have a family member with diabetes.
Should I wait and have Vet show me how to do it? and get numbers from her first?
sorry to be so slow.
and I am headed out now but will come back and go to look at all the newbie sites her for getting started.
thanks,
jennifer and Nereus
 
If you have the tools, there is no reason why you can't start testing now! You don't need to wait for the vet.

http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=287

This link has great instructions and demos on how to home test.

Remember to use a rice sock - take one sock, put 1/4 regular (not minute) rice, oatmeal or dried beans in it. Knot the top.

Put in microwave for 15-30 seconds until warm to touch.

Place behind kitty's ear until ear is warm.

And you can keep it there to use as a buffer when poking - this way you don't poke your fingers.

The point of the sock is to warm the ear to help the blood flow.
 
Nereus & Jennifer said:
Okay I am armed and dangerous with a Relion Micro. JK
Anyway to I just start testing every two hours. I am a total Novice, I don't even have a family member with diabetes.
Should I wait and have Vet show me how to do it? and get numbers from her first?
sorry to be so slow.
and I am headed out now but will come back and go to look at all the newbie sites her for getting started.
thanks,
jennifer and Nereus
Click to expand...


Always test before giving the insulin injection. So twice a day every single day. That way you know if your cat's blood glucose level is at a safe enough leve for insulin to be given (over 200 mg/dl for newbies). Even if you are running late and need to get out the door, please take a minute to test the cat before you give the insulin. It's better to be late for work or whatever than to risk your cat having a hypo at home because you blindly shot the insulin.

In addition to the befoer insulin tests, take random tests whenever you can. Two or three a day is plenty for most cats.

Testing every 2 hours is a curve. You don't need to do a curve right away. Get familiar with the basics of testing first and get your cat used to the process.
 
Ok first test right before evening meal and 2nd dose of Lantus.
Success I did his ear he had a drop of blood and it was 270. I don't know what that means. In addition to all his other drops and pills I gave him his 2U dose of Lantus.
He is a complicated cat.
As for his medications they are as follows:
I know now that the prednisolone probably brought on the diabetes, however he takes it for asthma and has for a few years, prior to that he got shots of steroids in his thigh which were supposed to last about 6 weeks. His jaw is not aligned properly and he trys to correct it and Vet has suggested he probably has some arthritis there which the pred probably helps, I have also heard the pred might help either his IBS or intestinal CA which ever he has.
He also takes methazolamide every 12 hrs 25 mg and dorzolamide drops for his glaucoma. he takes refresh ointment for his eye which he can no longer keep closed every 12 hrs.
He takes 1/4 tablet of 250mg metronidazole once a day for his intestines.
He takes 1/2 tablet of a 100 mg fluconazole for his ringworm/ fungus
he takes 5mg prednisolone 2x a day and 1/2 tab terbutaline 2.5 mg 2x a day for the asthma and arthritis in jaw.
He takes oflaxicin drops and idoxuridine eye drops as needed if he has an ulcer or problems with his eyes.
he takes 500 mg L-lysine on his food once a day
He has some pain medication if he needs it so far he hasn't needed it.
 

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Jennifer, you are a wonderful woman doing all you do for Nereus! And congratulations on getting the first BG test done! Whooohooo! The first time I tried testing Pumbaa, my knees were shaking so bad I got nothing. *LOL*

To me, 270 is great considering he's eating high-carbed dry food! Just another reminder that the more you reduce his carb intake, the less insulin he should need. Also, cats die slowly from untreated feline diabetes (no insulin) but can die quickly from too much insulin, so it's a double-edged sword, that is for sure. If you ever err on injecting insulin, err on the lower side. Also, many cats have their lowest BG number 6 hours after their injection, which is when the Lantus should be working at optimum strength. As someone else explained, the pre-shot tests just tell you how your cat is reacting at the end of the 12-hour insulin dose, and whether or not you should shoot the full dose. But the most important numbers are the nadirs, or, the lowest number of the day, which could be six hours after the injection, or somewhere else in the timeline, depending on your particular cat.

At the bottom of our posts, you'll see a link to our cat's spreadsheets, where we document all of our tests as well as the units of insulin the cat received, and sometimes other data. I document Pumbaa's food and the %KCal for protein/fat/carbs to help me understand if he is reacting to higher carbs or not. It's highly recommended that you create a spreadsheet for Nereus as well, and you don't have to do it from scratch, there is a template you can use with Google Docs, and the beauty of this is that when you have any questions, people can go to the spreadsheet and see Nereus' history. Here's the link for the spreadsheet download and instructions: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=18207. In any case, it is great to look at the spreadsheets of other cats to see what they have been going through, and find correlations to your kitty.

Hope this helps!

Suze
 
Have you considered using an asthma inhaler to treat the asthma? It is actually easy to use, you just need to purchase the aerokat unit which is a tube and mask. You place the inhaler at the end of the tube, the mask over kitty's mouth and nose, squirt and hold.

This inhaled steroids are very different from oral steroids and do not contribute to the possibility of diabetes. www.fritzthebrave.com/ Is a great site to help you better understand how to do this.

Now, I get that you are using the steroids for dual purposes, but I wonder if there may be an alternative you can use for the arthritis? And if not, maybe you can reduce the amount of pred being used?

Just something else to consider.
 
I'm not going to even go over all the excellent advice already given foer the diabetes, but I was just curious as to why you have not yet enucleated the eye? You said the vet wanted to remove it, and odds are that it's quite painful at this point (is the bad eye the one with the glaucoma?) He would probably feel much better, and it would eliminate one of the med routines you now have to do. Cats get along beautifully with this procedure - perhaps another conversation with the vet would be helpful.

Sometimes we just have to use the Pred, and treat the diabetes that it causes. In your case, the Pred is doing more than just one thing (IBD, arthritis, etc.), so I can understand you wanting to continue with it, but perhaps the dose can be tweaked a bit? Has he ever had a lower dose, or was this worked at to be the best dose for him? In any case, you have given this guy 8 years more of a wonderful life than he ever would have had if he didn't cross your path, and what you have done for him (and continue to do) is nothing short of AWESOME. He's a lucky boy.
 
Last bg at 7:30 am prior to Lantus was 370.
Haven't yet joined the google to get the page started but will do it.
His Eye
When I found him in my backyard 8 years ago I thought he had been hit by a car and was going to die quite literally because his one eye was was completely dilated open and his tongue was hanging out and he was panting. Hot in Tucson summers but still.
Anyway long story short after feeding him and he came back I decided to trap and neuter but realized immediately he was abandoned not a feral cat.
Eye Specialist Vet has seen him and his eye from the beginning and in the beginning when he was healthier Vet said he still had vision and was against taking the eye out. Only this last year when he got the glaucoma and eye herpes and his bad eye just looks different has Vet recommended taking the eye out about 3 months ago. However he was also just diagnosed with the diabetes and whatever the IBD or Intestinal CA. So his health isn't really up to a major operation. And I have felt this last year that the FIV has really taken over his immune system and I am concerned that any operation with potential for infection might just be too much for him. My main goal has been to try to keep him as comfortable for as long as possible. Which is what took me awhile to go for the glucose testing as I wasn't sure he was going to survive the intestinal thing. But he has good days and not so good days where he just camps out under a chest.

But and after reading more I realize that I am going to have to take him and my other 3 girls off of dry food which he loves by the way. He also has a difficult time eating because of the jaw so it takes him awhile just to eat the canned food and I have to keep piling it up so he can get a good bite into his mouth as some of it falls out. I think he gets hungry and then goes after the dry food.
His pred I know is way high. I do bring it down periodically to 1 or 1.5 tabs a day and will try again. When he gets the asthma he just gets a really bad cough which he continues for awhile, with his jaw and tongue hanging out as he coughs. i just don't know which to attend to first.
Thank you all so much for all the comments I appreciate the support and ideas.
He has just been such a wonderful cat and given me so much it is hard to keep poking him and putting stuff in his eyes and now taking away his kibble ( sorry had a little pity party)
Jennifer & Nereus
 
Nereus & Jennifer said:
His pred I know is way high. I do bring it down periodically to 1 or 1.5 tabs a day and will try again. When he gets the asthma he just gets a really bad cough which he continues for awhile, with his jaw and tongue hanging out as he coughs. i just don't know which to attend to first.
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Jennifer, you are amazing! That is a lot of things to take care of. Sometimes treating other illnesses takes precedence over diabetes. This isn't because diabetes isn't very serious, because it is, but it can be treated with insulin. So if you have to use steroids to keep Nereus breathing, you do it but realize it will make the sugar dance more complicated.
 
A couple tips:

1) Add water to the wet food. This will keep it moist longer and may make it easier for him to lap up the food with his tongue rather than attempting to chew it.

2) If your cats truly are dry food addicts - here is a product my addict loves: it's freeze dried raw food by Stella & Chewy's. http://www.stellaandchewys.com/cat-driedchicken.php

I just discovered that Wag.com has the best price for this. And yes, it is expensive. But it's diabetic friendly and an alternative to dry food.

The intent is to add water and serve it that way. My girls prefer it dry in a bowl. So, they get that and wet food as their buffet options.
 
okay after an awful morning trying to get a stick with blood first time hadnt stuck test strip in far enough, so didn't work then after the 3rd try sent the lancet completely through the ear he was 319 at 7:30AM then at 7:00PM with help from my daughter got a better opportunity first time and after not letting have any dry food today he was at 132 so now what? Is there a link telling how to start reducing the amount of Lantus?
I have gotten onto Goggle and a document is up it is taking me a little while to figure out how to fill it out and what all the acronmyms mean? Is there a link telling how to fill out the page? I will also have to get the historical data together which I didn't keep very good records of.
Maybe I need more info before I take away the kibble.
It is time for his Lantus so I will give just a bit less than the 2 Units I was directed to give.
Help
Thanks so much!!!!!!!!
 
Once you get your spreadsheet up, you can post on the Lantus support group and get daily dose advice.

amps= am preshot number
U= units given
+2= the number 2 hours after the shot, +6 is 6 hours, etc.
Pmps= evening preshot number
The rest of the +2, +6 spaces are the evening numbers.
 
Jennifer, if Nereus was at BG 132 before his evening shot, you need to test him regularly tonight to make sure he doesn't drop to dangerous low levels. It will be good practice for your ear-poking. :)

Make sure you have honey or Karo syrup on hand...you might need it if he drops below 50 and start showing any signs of going hypo (too much insulin).

Go to this link about how to identify and deal with hypo's. Read it, print it out, embed it in your brain.

Now would be a good time to test Nereus...it's been 1-1/2 hours since the last test.

Don't worry...the first couple of times I was home testing...I forgot to push the test strip in, etc. *LOL* It will get easier. Also, I find that not using the lancing device and just using the lancet gives me more control. And, make sure you are aiming for the area of the ear between the vein and the outer edge of the ear, and not for the vein itself (that wasn't very clear on the catinfo.org website).

Post your new BG readings here and people will walk you through what to do if Nereus starts dropping too low.

Good luck!

Suze
 
okay I feel kinda stupid not knowing I shouldn't have given such a high Lantus dose.
so I probably overcompensated and gave him a little whip cream and let him have some kibble he tested after 2 hours at 99.
i also now have the goggle doc up.
thanks so much for all the support.
i do have the low blood sugar docs printed. I have real maple syrup on hand.
I will post to the Lantus site next.
So do I need to stay up and test him all night?
jennifer :sad:
 
Jennifer, sugars only increase their BG levels temporarily. Just like when we humans eat a piece of chocolate.

So yes, you need to stay up and test him and make sure he doesn't keep dropping. Sorry!

Make sure you feed him high protein foods as well, as those won't artificially inflate his BG numbers as carbs will. Give Nereus some human tuna or human chicken, or any pure protein you have around the house right now and that he will eat.

99 isn't a bad reading yet, but you have to remember that Lantus is a 12-hour insulin, and it usually peaks somewhere around 6 hours after giving the injection. Meaning, the lowest BG reading is usually somewhere around 6 hours after the injection.

Don't worry. Just breathe deeply, and keep testing the little guy. :) You want to watch for him really going up in his numbers, and not just temporarily due to giving high carbed (whipped cream) foods.

Suze
 
Tuna or high carb food as per link?
Depending on how carbohydrate sensitive your cat is, feed approximately a teaspoon or less of food with high carb (HC) gravy or HC food only. (If you have a cat with GI issues, using syrup plus LC food is an alternative.)
Test again in 15 – 20 min. Depending on the numbers, give more HC food.
Repeat the above steps every 15 – 20 min. until your cat tests in the 50 mg/dL (2.8 mmol/L) or above range for 2 consecutive tests. Continue to feed in small amounts to keep numbers in a safe range.
Test in 30 - 40 min. and repeat the test and feed process until there are 2 consecutive tests where numbers are stable or rising.
Test in an hour and follow the same steps.

And then what do I do at 7am in morning when he would get next lantus and how much?

I'm a little bummed I feel like I got ahead of myself without enough information about taking him off
of dry food and how to reduce the Lantus to go along with it.
:(
 
What time was his last reading and what was his value of his last reading?

That is the most important question right now. :)
 
High carb food will bring the numbers up quickly, but not for the long term. For the long term, you need to feed him more protein, and give the insulin something of substance to work on. Does that make sense?

Still waiting to hear his BG numbers after that last 99 test.

And, in the morning, if he tests below 200, you might just opt to skip the shot. That is advised if you won't be there to test him over the course of the cycle. And until you have more test data to see how he reacts to the insulin.

2.0 Units could be too high for your little guy if you are also trying to wean him off of dry/carbed cat food. Please take that into consideration!

Suze
 
Nereus & Jennifer said:
Just tested about 4 hours post he was 192
Click to expand...

That 192 sounds great! But how much of that was the high-carbed food you gave him?

Test him again at +5 and determine if he is still dropping or rising. Document anything he's been eating in the meantime.

This part of the FD is not fun, that is for sure, Jennifer. FD can kill over time due to damaging body parts, but too much insulin can kill quickly. That is why everyone here promotes home testing regularly.

You're doing great so far! Just keep testing Nereus, and figuring out if his numbers were caused by a sugar spike, or if they are going up naturally, via being fed protein. If he drops to 50, you need to start testing every 15-20 minutes or so, and watch him for sings of going hypo.

Suze
 
He had a T of whipped cream and some dry food just prior to the +2 hour test. No food until just prior to the +4 hour test he had some Fancy Feast Chicken about 1/4 can just before the test, don't think that would have been in his blood yet.
 
Just keep testing him until you are sure that his numbers are going up, naturally, and not due to the extra carbs. You will know when you have reached this point and can go to bed safely! (((HUGS)))
 
You're welcome, Jennifer! You did great with Nereus last night!

Since you gave him 2.0U this morning, are you able to test him during the day to make sure he doesn't drop too low again? If not, did you give him his normal higher-carbed diet?

Also, before reducing Nereus' carbs, you might want to post a question asking what would be the best insulin dose to have Nereus on before you start reducing the carbs.

I think you already have these links, but just in case:

How to deal with low preshot numbers.

How to handle low numbers.

Suze
 
yes,
I just gave him his regular diet which is canned food am & pm and then kibble to snack on.
I need to be much more ready and knowledgeable myself before I change his diet. He has so many issues that i am worried about changing something and that will affect something else.
thanks again for hanging out with me last night.
Someone else suggested I post on the Lanuts support group.
Are there people there that suggest what doses?
thanks,
Jennifer confused_cat
 
Yes, do post in the Lantus support groups, as people there with a lot more experience than me with dosing can help you out, especially while transitioning to the low-carb foods.

Let them know Nereus' current weight and ideal weight, and his other medical problems, what he's currently being fed, and what you think you might switch to. People might also have suggestions for low-carb canned foods based on your little's guy's other medical problems.

You're welcome for last night. The first time I had to deal with a low number like that, it sure helped just to be online with someone instead of dealing with it all by myself. It kept me calmer. :)

Suze
 
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