Need some help!!

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wombat88

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Shaikha is off the charts high, and I don't know what to do. I gave her 2 units (I thought) at around 7pm my time tonight. I just took a reading at +4 and she was at 587!!! Today was a bad day -- no time to do a curve like planned, but her readings today have been absolutely awful.

She started out okay I thought -- only 284 AMPS, then dropped quickly to 139 by +3. Unfortunately by +6.5 she had spiked to 395. I didn't think I could give her a shot then, so I waited trying to see how high she'd get on a full 12 hours. Unfortunately, she was up to 476 by PMPS and even after giving insulin after dinner, she's now seriously high.

I don't know what is going on with her. The only thing I can think of that the PM dose must have been a fur shot. I always check to ensure I can see her skin, but maybe I missed it because I was rushing around here. She's acting okay, but obviously with levels like that I'm scared.

What should I do? Give her more, like a token dose to try to get her down some? She's had issues with neuropathy before, but this is almost as bad as when she spiked a high fever in Feb. and was reading over 600 quite a bit.

Help! I am cross-posting this here and in the main forum because with the holiday I don't know how many are on.
 
just wanted you to know i'm here...now i'll go read your post.
 
ok Wendy, first before anything else...breath and be calm. yes it is a high number...i just looked at your SS. Much Higher numbers have been seen and for long stretches of time. My cat for one lived for a long time in the 600+ range and now is doing fabulous.
from what I can gather it may very well be a bounce...but clarify for me what you mean when you say you 'think' you gave him 2U's
and you would know if you blew 2u's on him becuase i think you would see it and/or smell it.
A bounce is...well, do you know what that is?
and no, do not shoot this number now..ok. he may very well come down off of it if it is a bounce.
 
soooo, were did you go? i'll wait for another 5 min. hope you come back.
 
I typed up a reply and I got a prompt to log in again and lost the dang thing! I'm not sure what is going on, but for whatever reason my browser isn't keeping the cookies.

I'm here, but basically I think I may have given her a fur shot because I did feel liquid on her fur, but thought it was from my hands because I'd been washing dishes. She's a Persian with thick fur, so sometimes unless you dig down to see skin it is easy to give a fur shot. Been there, done that though I thought I'd gotten better.

A bounce would mean she's getting too much insulin, correct? And that she jumped high because of going really, really low. But I didn't see that today, but I also didn't check regularly like I'd planned.
 
What is worrying me is that in the past when I've seen spikes in levels, it was because her pancreatitis was flaring up. Usually I see an increase in BG a few days before other symptoms like inappetance and pain show up. If she's still high tomorrow I probably should take her back to the vet and get a PLI done again.

Should I get up mid-AM and do a reading or two? Or do you think she'll come down off this without any action on my part?
 
Judy no worry. I was working with two different people and got the names confused! ohmygod_smile ohmygod_smile
Wendy and I finally communicated as her computor was having trouble. I hope all is well. I have'nt checked on her yet.
Please view her spread sheet and that is why I say...can I be honest...and I wanted to have a 'mom to mom' about data keeping is all.
 
omg, i just realized it's even worse than that...i was'nt working here with anyone named cassandra...i was at the hindi temple and chatting with a girl there...cassandra.
head examination time... confused_cat
 
Okay, here's an update. I did another check about +10 and she was over 600, so I decided to give her a shot because it was clear she wasn't coming down. I gave only one unit though, just in case her numbers were due to her being overdosed up to now. I do think I gave her a fur shot after the PM meal yesterday, since her numbers never seemed to go down but only up. I checked her again at +4 and she was down to 384, so that was a good thing. I won't be able to do the PMPS until 9pm my time tonight, so it will be late compared to when she got the other shot but I don't want my husband giving insulin without checking her BG.

I haven't checked ketones recently, but she's developed some litterbox problems and I'm not sure how to do it now because she's rarely using the Smart Cat Boxes now. Instead, she will pee on some washable puppy pads I've got in plastic litter trays (better than the floor!). She's also taken to using a Tidy Cat box with those hard pellets for litter. The only way I think I could collect a specimen would be confine her to a room with the plastic box with no pad in it, but she may not use it. She's secretive about using the litterbox, so trying to catch her when she goes is tough. It was easier when she used the smart boxes. Any ideas? How do you guys collect urine? I've tested her in the past, but she never showed ketones. Even during her crash in Feb and very high levels, she didn't throw any, even with lots of checks while hospitalized.

The question is... how much do I give her from now on? Do I try going to lower numbers and work my way up again? How long can you tolerate numbers as high as hers have been? I can't do a curve today, but can arrange to get a reading or two tomorrow AM before I have to leave for work. I won't be able to be there for a +6 reading due to work schedule, but could do a +3 or +4 depending on when I give her insulin.

Wendy
 
Hi Wendy, I've been eager to see what happened.
It's good she is doing so well on 1unit so far. And every indication is you did fur shoot her yesterday.
Don't worry too much about how long she can last in the highs...as she with your help now will not stay there. And even if she did...take a look at sue and samwise spread sheet and see how long she lasted with no apparent harm to kitty and even a kitty acting healthy.

Let's take it one day at a time with the numbers and the dose.
even a +10 or any data AT ALL is better than none. We are trying to piece together her response to 1 unit now.
 
lori and tom said:
Let's take it one day at a time with the numbers and the dose. even a +10 or any data AT ALL is better than none. We are trying to piece together her response to 1 unit now.

I just posted her numbers today. I won't be able to do another test until I get home from work late PM, which will mean she'll be about three hours late for her shot compared with when she got this last one since I gave it early. No way to BG test until then as I won't be home.
 
that's ok. starting tonight you will be on track with the new scedule.
i know you thought you had to shoot that +10...and i would have felt that way too. but in reality we have to get on a schedule that allows a amps and pmps.
we'll get it worked out...i'm so glad :-D your on board with the testing now.
 
Wow, lots going on today! :shock:

Yesterday's AM #s look like a bounce to me - the PS was lower than the day before, and that's on the low side for a +3, so her body may well have kicked in for protection purposes to get the #s higher by +6 as the insulin gained strength - could be there was a low # between the +3 and the +6 that you didn't see, or even if no actual scary low, it could have been too close for comfort for her system. ECID.

I would probably keep the dose below 2u for the time being - maybe 2u on PSs above 350, but scale back on the lower end PSs and see what the #s look like.

Barring a surprisingly low PS tonight, you might want to try a mid-range dose, maybe 1.4 or 1.6 for a couple days (lowering of course if you see low #s) and see where that falls out.
 
Joanna I too think yesterday day time numbers were a bounce...followed by a fur shot.

But have you really looked at the big picture with Shaikha's SS. There are just sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo many unknowns with her. she could conceivably be bouncing on a routine basis with the lack of testing and I kinda thought starting off like a newbie and using 1 unit and getting any spot checks she can would paint a better picture.

wendy is onboard for starting over as a newbie would and data collect to the best of her ability considering her hours and her DH won't test but will shoot...which i think it not gonna happen anymore.

do you see where i am going with this line of thought on how to approach a kitty like S?
 
For ketone testing I used to put some shreds of newspaper in a litter box. Sue uses aquarium gravel. Neither absorb the urine. I would watch and see when she went to the litter box and then immediately go in and test the urine in the pan.
 
Hmmm, I could go either way Lori. I'd probably tend to go with what the #s are tonight - if it's still pinks I'd probably up the dose so she doesn't sit in higher #s for too long. But I don't think a 1u trial is completely out of order, you are right there's a lot of unknowns. But when you look at the curve from 4/23 it doesn't suggest to me that the dose is way too high or anything, that's where I'm think she might need something like 1.8 or 1.6, so for safety try 1.4 or 1.6. But I think it's a certain amount of experimentation & data collection at this point, so there's kind of a trial & error factor, so I can't really argue too hard for or against any doses (under 2u). As long as she doesn't sit too long in high #s though. If she wants to try 1u I think that's ok, only I'd start raising by tomorrow night if the #s just ride higher.
 
:smile: Joanna you are such the diplomat! yes yes I do see your point as well. I was just so unaccustomed to the lack of data that I put that cart before the horse and thought we should know more about S (that is one hard name to spell) before we switched around doses.
As usual I cannot argue your logic.
 
Joanna & Bix (GA) said:
Hmmm, I could go either way Lori. I'd probably tend to go with what the #s are tonight - if it's still pinks I'd probably up the dose so she doesn't sit in higher #s for too long. But I don't think a 1u trial is completely out of order, you are right there's a lot of unknowns. But when you look at the curve from 4/23 it doesn't suggest to me that the dose is way too high or anything, that's where I'm think she might need something like 1.8 or 1.6, so for safety try 1.4 or 1.6. But I think it's a certain amount of experimentation & data collection at this point, so there's kind of a trial & error factor, so I can't really argue too hard for or against any doses (under 2u). As long as she doesn't sit too long in high #s though. If she wants to try 1u I think that's ok, only I'd start raising by tomorrow night if the #s just ride higher.

Definitely look at her numbers today and from last night. She was pink last night, though not much higher than the +4 reading which probably meant she went lower in between. But at +10 this AM, she's back up to 588 with only 1U given last night. Maybe she is bouncing, but my radar is saying that she's starting another pancreatitis flareup, which makes her numbers go crazy. She had a pudding poop this AM. I'm hoping that doesn't continue, but if it does, then I know what will follow (more wild swings in BG, appetite loss, and lots of buprenorphine for pain plus subQ fluids for dehydration). I really, really hope that is not going to happen -- too close to my trip and too close to her last pancreatitis crash. They are happening more often, which is worrying me. I really hope I'm wrong. She isn't acting sick yet, but she looks sick. Her fur texture has changed, similar to how she's looked before past flareups. She's still hungry, thankfully. Usually when she gets a bad flare I have to assist feed, which can be tricky because she also develops vomiting and of course that's not helpful in a diabetic cat.

Will try to take it a step at a time and hope I'm wrong. Still not sure what to do on the units, though. Too many red and black readings in there for my comfort, and I worry that if we don't get better control it will harm an already unhappy pancreas.
 
Wendy your the mom. In the end, nobody know's your baby like you do....so there is a gut feeling you have to pay attention to. That includes dosing. And we are all here just in case there is a question of what you 'think you should do next' but as always, mom's kinda know.
(((((S and Wendy)))))
you don't mind if I nickname her S do you? I'm always thinking I've misspelled her name!
 
Sure, go ahead and nickname her S. Easier to type anyway! I do have a very good radar when it comes to my cats, but of course moms would. Just hope I am wrong about the pancreatitis this time.
 
Joanna & Bix (GA) said:
I agree with dose increase, the #s look like too little insulin to me. Hope she is feeling better soon. :YMHUG:

Her PMPS tonight was unreadable on my meter, so > 600. I shot about +11, but knew it wasn't going down any and she's been most likely very high all day. Wish I knew the nadir, but couldn't be home then to test. We'll see what the vet thinks tomorrow. The good thing about her being at the clinic all day is that they can do a curve then and we can see how she is responding to the higher dose.

I hope she's feeling better soon too.
 
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