Need PZI Vet insulin

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Glenna and Elke

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I have need for PZI Vet Insulin (discontinued), if anyone knows of a source still having some. I do not want to change Elke over to anything else as long as I can still obtain the insulin that she has been taking. I realize my time for this may be running out and will have to change sooner, rather than later. Thank you very much.
 
I can understand your feeling about change. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Just in case you do not find more PZI Vet... How much insulin does Elke currently get? Do you know about BCP insulin? It is 100% bovine and would be the closest match for PZI Vet since PZI Vet was 90% bovine and 10% porcine insulin. BCP does have a couple minor drawbacks [it is a compounded insulin, the shelf life is only 6 months and it is available from only one place and must be shipped to you]. But if you can deal with that, then I would probably expect the least amount of potential surprises with this - and would put money on it being a completely seamless change.

As for ProZinc I changed from PZI Vet to ProZinc and it was not that big of a deal.

Best of luck.
 
Thank you for your comments. Since you are using ProZinc, why did you choose that one instead of the BCP Insulin? When I called Boehringer Ingelheim about PZI, they mentioned ProZinc as a replacement and said it was the only one approved for cats. Elke's diabetes was a huge change for us and now this; it is very frustrating.
 
I chose ProZinc for a number of reasons [not necessarily in order]:

a) ProZinc is a manufacturerd insulin, not a compounded insulin. Thus minimizing variation in strength from bottle to bottle of compounded insuin. However, I would trust BCP's attention to detail and ability to minimize concentration differences from bottle to bottle over a local pharmacy that compounds PZI.

b) ProZinc is AVAILABLE. It is available at many local pharmacies that sell veterinary medicines and it is available at many veterinarians. Not only does this mean if I run out [or if I should do something unfortunate to my bottle and ruin it] I can go get more in 1/2 hour tops, but it also means greater competition. BCP comes from one place only and it is not local to me [so my ability to go crack some skulls together to get results if necessary is limited :smile: ].

c) H uses less than 1 unit per shot. This makes a 10ml bottle of U40 insulin last us months more than the 6 month expiry for BCP. ProZinc lasts 2 years from the date of manufacture.

d) Someone in my neighborhood horded the last 5 bottles of PZI Vet [I'm obviously still steamed about this]. I called one day and a few days later I was informed that someone had purchased them from the local pharmacy I had bought from in the past. I was nearly out of PZI Vet thinking I had a bottle lined up at a place with plenty in supply. So thanks to whoever this hoarder was I got stuck and had to do something. I found ProZinc locally and I went and bought it. I did not have the time to research the best way to obtain BCP nor deal with any confusion resulting in any communications issues with the prescribing vet.

e) Some minor reasons pertaining to our vets.

f) I appreciate BIV's customer service more than BCP's.

You may want to read this study about cats that switched to ProZinc from PZI Vet. Basically 50 cats and things went well on a 1:1 dosing change:
http://www.vetlearn.com/Media/Publicati ... 2_24_0.pdf

Cost wise BCP may end up a little cheaper [if your vet signs off that BCP can direct bill you and thus your vet is willing to forgo re-selling the insulin with a markup] but I STILL have not been able to confirm this. However, if your kitty uses less insulin like H does then any cost advantage to BCP may be insignificant because of the expiry differences. And honestly for me to be sweating many $20 or tops $30 over a period of 9 months when H's care is costing mucho $$ is just plain silly. The potential savings against the cost of just the strips and syringes alone is minimal! Then add in the cost of the rest of his care? The bank is already broken, $20 or $30 ain't gonna to change that! :lol:
 
Wow! Thank you for the excellent information. Truly, the ProZinc sounds like the best way to go for our situation also. My vet had basically said "just find the PZI Vet and have them email me for permission, if necessary". So I doubt that the ProZinc would cause much fuss either. It is reassuring to know that the transition was basically seamless in your case and also in the research. Having already tried the pharmacies in our area and finding out that they carry no feline insulin, I will be doing the internet search for the ProZinc. Thank you again! I am going now to read that research article you had cited.
 
Make sure to read the sticky at the top of this forum with the ProZinc sourcing information.
viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1979

"Seamless" is not the word I would use for our transition. But H has other things going on and it is hard to know how much was H and how much was the ProZinc. Basically, H ended up needing more ProZinc than he did PZI Vet, but this trend might have started before our switch. Ultimately the change was not that big of a deal once I realized that our old "scale" needed some refreshing. I was too caviler about the switch and was not testing as much as I should have been at the start of the switch. Once I tested a little more and realized he needed more insulin, things got back on track.

So that's my suggestion, if you switch to ProZinc just make sure you treat it as a switch to a new insulin and do the requisite testing. Don't just assume everything will be exactly like it was. It may end up exactly the same it was, but just do the testing to make sure you don't miss anything.
 
I agree about the testing, especially since this product will be new to us. It is always a good idea and I had planned to begin changing when I knew I would be at home to monitor her more closely. We have gotten this down to such a routine that maybe it will be good to renew our process. I am sure nothing will ever change her hatred of the ear stick, though. The shot - no problem - she even lays down and waits when she sees me getting things ready - but the ear sticks are the "bad events" of the day!
 
Testing is a problem for us too... I'm the one who hates it, not H! lol So I totally understand getting the the groove and doing the routine - and not wanting to interfere with that. I was lucky enough to have a good few months of that with H. We just kind of floated along. Even now, I should probably test more.

Thought I would mention it, I have no idea how "bad" these events are but some folks find good luck with the clothes peg trick:
http://www.felinecrf.org/giving_sub-qs_ ... _peg_trick

LOL, maybe I should try the clothes peg trick on myself?!
 
OMG! First, I thought that was a joke, but then realized it was valid. I am quite sure Elke would be on the phone to PETA or somebody like that if I tried that approach with her! She is lying at my feet right now and she is not laughing!

We have our trials, but I hope she knows I am trying to do the right thing for her. Thank you again for all the info and I will let you know how things work out with this change.
 
Thank you - I have emailed her in case it is still available. In the meantime, my vet has ok'd the use of ProZinc. I am going price-shopping for it now. My vet also has said that she works with some compounding pharmacies which may be able to come up with something for less money; she said she would be willing to work with me on that.
 
Glenna and Elke said:
Thank you - I have emailed her in case it is still available. In the meantime, my vet has ok'd the use of ProZinc. I am going price-shopping for it now. My vet also has said that she works with some compounding pharmacies which may be able to come up with something for less money; she said she would be willing to work with me on that.
Click to expand...
I would recommend not doing the local compounding route - it is not BAD but not optimal. Compounded insulin not from BCP would be my last choice. Unlike BCP which uses 100% bovine insulin, most compounded insulins use Humulin N + PZI. I've done some extensive pricing research online and have put that in the sticky I noted above at the top of this forum with complete notes and instructions. If you do find a better deal please let me know so I can update the sticky.
 
All the locally compounded insulins that I have read about use R insulin plus the a protamine zinc additive. Per the package insert for Lilly's Humulin N:

Humulin N [Human insulin (rDNA origin) isophane suspension] is a crystalline suspension of human insulin with protamine and zinc providing an intermediate-acting insulin with a slower onset of action and a longer duration of activity (up to 24 hours) than that of Regular human insulin.

Note that N already contains some protamine zinc. Also, your use of "N + PZI" is confusing since PZI stand for Protamine Zinc Insulin. Are you really adding one insulin to another? Besides a crystalline suspension, I think there can also be an amorphous suspension. The type of suspension as well as the additive determines an insulin's duration. Vetsulin is:

As a lente insulin, Vetsulin is classified as an intermediate-acting insulin. It is an aqueous suspension of 40 IU/mL of highly purified porcine insulin, consisting of 30% amorphous and 70% crystalline zinc insulin.

This article discusses insulin additives and states that Vetsulin has two peaks due to its crystalline and amorphous constituents.

http://www.vshsd.com/For_Veterinarians- ... %20Use.pdf
Humulin N info
http://pi.lilly.com/us/humulin-n-ppi.pdf

Gator & H said:
Glenna and Elke said:
Thank you - I have emailed her in case it is still available. In the meantime, my vet has ok'd the use of ProZinc. I am going price-shopping for it now. My vet also has said that she works with some compounding pharmacies which may be able to come up with something for less money; she said she would be willing to work with me on that.
Click to expand...
I would recommend not doing the local compounding route - it is not BAD but not optimal. Compounded insulin not from BCP would be my last choice. Unlike BCP which uses 100% bovine insulin, most compounded insulins use Humulin N + PZI. I've done some extensive pricing research online and have put that in the sticky I noted above at the top of this forum with complete notes and instructions. If you do find a better deal please let me know so I can update the sticky.
Click to expand...
 
Larry and Kitties said:
All the locally compounded insulins that I have read about use R insulin plus the a protamine zinc additive.

... Also, your use of "N + PZI" is confusing since PZI stand for Protamine Zinc Insulin. Are you really adding one insulin to another?
Click to expand...
Hmm maybe I'm wrong about N, maybe it is R. I just checked my bottle of compounded and it does not specify - I had thought it said "N" but I was thinking wrong obviously! Thanks for catching that - I'll make sure to note in my brain and re-read the info on compounded insulin as well as potentially contact the pharm that did the compounding for us. Something stuck in my head about N but I could just be flat wrong.

I think nitpicking over "X + PZI" is well nitpicking. I would sincerely hope that anyone who came to this forum would read the links in the sticky which would detail exactly how PZI is made and thus would not be so "confused" by me saying "X + PZI." Perhaps next time I'll make sure to say "X + PZ." Personally, I think it would be more confusing for someone who is not up on the details of how PZI is compounded to read "PZ" versus "PZI." But whatever.

Two details here might be technically incorrect which I'm appreciative you took the time to point out and correct. But, the bottom line is that it is a Humulin insulin with a protamine zinc base and compounded at variable locations & under variable conditions which collectively makes it sub-optimal in comparison to the other PZI options. Do you disagree?
 
Glenna and Elke said:
OMG! First, I thought that was a joke, but then realized it was valid. I am quite sure Elke would be on the phone to PETA or somebody like that if I tried that approach with her! She is lying at my feet right now and she is not laughing!
Click to expand...

The clothespin trick looks really weird but it completely changed my home testing experience and made it possible to successfully test consistently. I don't have to use it any more, but it sure was a lifesaver. :-D
 
thank you on pro zinc info & meter

thank you for posting your experience with prozinc. I was doing the same thing, assuming & not testing enough, and was about to throw the bottle through a window. I will start with this new insulin, again, and test more as I should...and give it time. It is NOT the same as PZI, similar maybe, NOT the same.
Also, my cat warns me when he is low, or dropping too fast...he meows like crazy. He does this on prozinc at +3 & +4....it is weird. There were a couple of times he was dropping too fast (100 points per hour)....all other times (almost every time) for no apparent reason. I though, like you, I was giving too much...doesnt appear that way. More testing is needed. Maybe it is too much.

A note on meters: I have used about 4 different brands. NOVA/BD takes the smallest sample of blood...by far, no comparison. I also us 33 gauge lancets that make the tiniest hole. Big difference. Call the company, tell them the meter is for you & they'll give you the meter free. They make their money on the test strips.
 
Amy,
There are a number of posts I've made about my impressions switching to ProZinc. I got at least one unexpected aggressive early drop initially [that's what convinced me to get back on the testing horse]. You might search the forum, and make sure to read the sticky. If you are still having difficulties or can't find any of the posts related to switching then please post a new topic. Once we got though the initial settling in period [about 4-6 weeks] and I updated our "scale" I was relieved that it now seems pretty darned similar to me.

Good luck! And give Mickey a little scratchin' for me :smile:
 
I haven't posted for a long time but another of my cats, Lily, has been dx diabetic for almost a year now. I have about used up my old stash of PZI and need to make the switch. I got my first vial of ProZinc today. I haven't tried it yet and I can't tell you how grateful I am to return to FDMB with questions and find the same careful answers and support. I have some confidence about switching now and I just wanted to say thanks for the great info! :-D
 
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