Need immediate help with this

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karen lastoria

Member Since 2016
I have a 15 year old diabetic female at named Sapphire. Yesterday I changes from syringes to Vetpen.
I use Caninsulin, I am from Canada. I checked her bg 5 hours after her shot to get the nadir. It was 485 and she was howling. Her usual dose is 1. unit. She as reduced from 1.5 u. Can I give her 1/2 unit now to bring the value down?
Thanks in advance for your help. Vet is closed today and isnt that knowledgeable anyway.
Karen
 
What could be happening is that your kitty could have gone lower or lower than she is used to during the cycle (time in between shots). This would have cause a counter-regulatory body process that releases store glucose (glucogen) in response to what the body perceives as an "emergency" situation. This would cause the glucose numbers to go much higher.


Is your kitty eating and drinking normally?

ETA How exactly was she howling? Has she had full blood work done at the vet recently? How long ago did you start giving insulin? Are you testing for ketones at home?

Sorry for all the questions but trying to see what could be happening
 
Hi Maxi,
She has had 1 eye removed.She eats about 2 ounces in the morning and about 5 oz in the evening. Always drinking alot of water. Never been completely regulated.
Karen
 
karen lastoria said:
Hi Maxi,
She has had 1 eye removed.She eats about 2 ounces in the morning and about 5 oz in the evening. Always drinking alot of water. Never been completely regulated.
Karen
Click to expand...


Thanks for the information. It is hard to say what is happening with the insulin since you don't have any data. If you are home testing, are you testing before each shot and then again around +3 or +4 hours after the shot. That is when Caninsulin generally will have the peak action.

Shooting an extra dose before the regular shot time makes it very hard to gauge what may be happening since you would be dealing with two separate nadirs(lowest numbers) . Caninsulin consists of a faster acting insulin and an intermediate acting insulin. One part brings the numbers down quickly and the second part helps keep the numbers level. Many kitties will get from 8-12 hours durations on Caninsulin....it varies with each kitty.
 
When is the last time you had blood work done? Is Sapphire eating and drinking normally today? Is she acting normal or does she seem "off". I am trying to figure why she was howling...is she still howling? Do you test the urine with ketodiastix to test for ketones?
 
She had her blood tested end of august, it shows some liver damage and some kidney damage. Get another blood panel done on Saturday. She is eating and drinking, but always alot of water and periodically howls over the water bowl. Not howling now.This could be when her bg level is too high. I test the urine for ketones. It shows trace only.
 
Tuxedo Mom said:
Thanks for the information. It is hard to say what is happening with the insulin since you don't have any data. If you are home testing, are you testing before each shot and then again around +3 or +4 hours after the shot. That is when Caninsulin generally will have the peak action.

Shooting an extra dose before the regular shot time makes it very hard to gauge what may be happening since you would be dealing with two separate nadirs(lowest numbers) . Caninsulin consists of a faster acting insulin and an intermediate acting insulin. One part brings the numbers down quickly and the second part helps keep the numbers level. Many kitties will get from 8-12 hours durations on Caninsulin....it varies with each kitty.
Click to expand...
 
karen lastoria said:
She had her blood tested end of august, it shows some liver damage and some kidney damage. Get another blood panel done on Saturday. She is eating and drinking, but always alot of water and periodically howls over the water bowl. Not howling now.This could be when her bg level is too high. I test the urine for ketones. It shows trace only.
Click to expand...


Thank you. Glad to see that you are testing for ketones at home. Anything over a trace would be cause for concern, since ketones show up in the urine after they are already higher in the blood.

If you have data from home testing it would be very useful for people giving opinions and advice to be able to see the numbers. You can set up a spreadsheet to record your data. Here is a link with the instructions:

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/fdmb-spreadsheet-instructions.130337/

Since you are in Canada (as am I) you would use the one with mmol/L which has a separate tab that converts to US numbers so that US members can follow along with the system they use.

If you are using a human meter you would want to use this spreadsheet:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1JQ136YHkxNhhku9AML_OKGHkrg3Ixe27BWAdWONlnP0/edit?usp=sharing

If you are using a pet meter such as the AlphaTrak2 or any other pet meter you would want to use this spreadsheet:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1hLCvQ-GPSqWBSD6X5afzxSzxFEGx7wTNZbIr12GPBVg/edit?usp=sharing

If you need any help with the spreadsheet just ask and someone can help you with it. I couldn't figure it out when I started on here ;)

The colour coding in the spreadsheet makes it very useful to see what trends are happening and whether dose changes may be needed.
 
I have not been testing before every shot. I did a curve last week the number were 248, 248, 204, 125 129 158, 214 every two hours, vet thought her 125 was to low so switched the dose to 1 unit.
 
Tuxedo Mom said:
Thank you. Glad to see that you are testing for ketones at home. Anything over a trace would be cause for concern, since ketones show up in the urine after they are already higher in the blood.

If you have data from home testing it would be very useful for people giving opinions and advice to be able to see the numbers. You can set up a spreadsheet to record your data. Here is a link with the instructions:

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/fdmb-spreadsheet-instructions.130337/

Since you are in Canada (as am I) you would use the one with mmol/L which has a separate tab that converts to US numbers so that US members can follow along with the system they use.

If you are using a human meter you would want to use this spreadsheet:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1JQ136YHkxNhhku9AML_OKGHkrg3Ixe27BWAdWONlnP0/edit?usp=sharing

If you are using a pet meter such as the AlphaTrak2 or any other pet meter you would want to use this spreadsheet:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1hLCvQ-GPSqWBSD6X5afzxSzxFEGx7wTNZbIr12GPBVg/edit?usp=sharing

If you need any help with the spreadsheet just ask and someone can help you with it. I couldn't figure it out when I started on here ;)

The colour coding in the spreadsheet makes it very useful to see what trends are happening and whether dose changes may be needed.
Click to expand...
 
karen lastoria said:
I have not been testing before every shot. I did a curve last week the number were 248, 248, 204, 125 129 158, 214 every two hours, vet thought her 125 was to low so switched the dose to 1 unit.
Click to expand...


Actually that 125 (6.9 mmol) was a great number for the nadir (lowest number) and the levels did not drop drastically so that looked pretty good. Testing before each shot is VERY important since glucose levels even with a non-diabetic kitty can change through out the day. Testing before each shot makes sure it is safe to shoot and testing at +3 or +4 after shot shows the lower point with Caninsulin.
 
Thank you so much for the spread sheets, I am pretty good with them but will ask if I need help. I am a bit confused about the vet pen using it today and then getting the high number. Have a a few other questions if I test before every shot am I to adjust the dose accordingly? Also cat is not very hungry in the morning, but two hours after the shot she will eat a jar or 2 of baby food. I am trying to put some weight on her so is it ok to eat between shots. Vet says it is OK, but he is not very good with this.
Thanks I really appreciate the time you put in to this.
Karen
 
Some people have had problems with the Vetpen. You need to "prime" it first to make sure you get the correct dose. Most people prefer using syringes with the pen and drawing the dose out themselves. That way you can do smaller dosing as well. It is hard to say what is happening without looking at more data over a longer period of time. Curves are very useful, but the every day testing gives a much clearer picture of what is happening through the cycles (time between shots).

With Caninsulin you want to make sure you have a decent meal fed about 1/2 hour before the shot. Since Caninsulin is a faster acting insulin and can sometimes bring numbers down quite quickly, it is best to have food on board before shooting. Feeding small "min-meals" during the day is easier on many kitties than just having two meals. The only thing you should do is make sure Sapphire hasn't eaten for at least two hours before doing a pretest reading. That way you would know that the number you get is not influenced by food and is safe to shoot. Baby food is fine, as long as it doesn't have onions or garlic in it, although baby food should not be used as a regular food all the time since it doesn't have all the nutrients that kitties need.
 
Last edited:
karen lastoria said:
I have a 15 year old diabetic female at named Sapphire. Yesterday I changes from syringes to Vetpen.
I use Caninsulin, I am from Canada. I checked her bg 5 hours after her shot to get the nadir. It was 485 and she was howling. Her usual dose is 1. unit. She as reduced from 1.5 u. Can I give her 1/2 unit now to bring the value down?
Thanks in advance for your help. Vet is closed today and isnt that knowledgeable anyway.
Karen
Click to expand...
Ok, I have to ask, what is the "normal" number they should be at?
 
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