need dosing advice.. will be changing to new food soon

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Mister's Owner

Mister's Owner

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My cat Mister seems to do ok on numbers for 2 weeks whenever i go up on insulin by .5 than he starts climbing again?

anyways he has gained weight and weighs 17lbs now. He was 14

i usually feed friskies beef and gravy shreds 5.5oz - 15 carbs with 3.5 u prozinc
and 6 hrs after shot i give half of a 5.5oz friskies special diet turkey and giblets. 5 carbs

i have 1 case of the special diet left and they discontinued plus he keeps bouncing to 400 here and there so...

i was thinking of try wellness chicken grain free and they are 12.5 oz and im pretty sure 4 carbs a can.
if i switched its 2.98 a can but i was thinking if its less insulin the cost might balance out.
would you try this and if so do i sart back at 1u ?
Also the can says 1 per 6-8 lbs so do i just try one whole can every 12 hrs.? sorry so many questions
~ Thanks Tina
 
Hi Tina, I can't answer your dosing questions, but I would definitely take Mister off the Beef & Gravy shreds because of the high carbs. Wellness grain free is an excellent food. I use the Turkey for Colin.
 
I agree with Sharon, if you really want to get the most out of your insulin, I would get rid of the Beef & Gravy shreds and use only low carb food. Merlin is so carb sensitive. If I gave him food that is in the medium carb range like the shreds, it would increase him 100 points. He has two dog kibbles, he will increase 100 points. I use Wellness Turkey too. I have four cats and they get about 18 oz a day (1 1/2 cans). I water it down with RO (reverse osmosis) water. I get my cans from Pet Club and it is 2.69 per can. You can also order on Amazon and if you order more than $35 worth, shipping is free. It is 2.41 per can.
 
Cindi and Sharon helped with food. Re the dose - any chance you could get a curve tomorrow or even a few numbers mid cycle? That will help you see how low he is going and whether he is bouncing for the preshots or whether he is just higher and flatter.
 
For some reason i keep getting signed out so i only received the first reply until now.
I will try and get more numbers today.
merlin are you saying your only feeding 1 1/2 cans for all 4 to share?
The only thing I have noticed with Mister is he gets hungry faster with wellness.
I figured its so much healthier that he is processing it faster..
All i was thinking was maybe if im going from 15 carbs at insulin to 4 i should only give 1 u to start?

also does anyone know if i can use precision xtra meters blood strips to check for ketones?
>its impossible for me to do the urine ones with 4 cats trying to share boxes and there isnt a room to isolate him because the other has a 7 month old baby and the basement is where different food is for the others.
 
On your Contact Details (upper right side under your sign in name) mark Receive Emails. This should send any updates to your emails (though I have found it works sometimes and not others). The other thing to do is - on the top of this thread, click on Watch Thread.

Humans use the Precision meter to gauge ketones too. So I would ask the druggist for a Precision Xtra meter that measures blood glucose and ketones and the strips that measure ketones. Once you get a few (they are very pricey) you might go on an eBay search. Sometimes human diabetics sell their excess supplies on eBay. We used the Precision meter and got great deals there for the regular strips. I never tried searching for the ketone ones.

Are you thinking reducing to one unit because you are going down in carbs for food? IMHO, that would be too drastic a drop. I'd get some numbers today - if you want to do the food change too, maybe mix 1/2 and 1/2?- and see where he is. If he shows you lower midcycle numbers, then I'd reduce his dose. Once you get the numbers, we can help with a possible dose change (for example, if he is dropping to 50 at +6, that would be a different dose change than if he is at 200 at +6)
 
Yes about 1 1/2 cans per day for all four cats. Like I said, I also water down with RO or distilled water. Three cats are around 10-11.5 lbs and one cat is about 8 lbs. They have maintained their weight very well. Throughout the day, they don't seem to be hungry but when it is about one hour before feeding time, they are surrounding me with those forlorn looks.
 
Oh I know those forlorn looks well!!! Mine have figured out that food time is when I come home or come downstairs (in the morning). So they've started to think that if I come home early, it's dinner time!!
 
Ok Im a little confused...
I tried half can of beef gravy friskies so 7 carbs instead of 15
than i took the 12.6 oz can of wellness chicken and beef 4 carbs a can but i split it in half
and than used half of that so we will say about 3.2 oz which im guessing is 1 carb.

I gave mister his 3.0 u and he was 359 at shot time.
at +5 he was 272
and +8 he was 330 ? His insulin is wearing off at 8 hrs.?
 
It looks like, with this cycle, the difference in carbs isn't making much difference yet. It may be that 3 units is too little a dose. Maybe give it one more cycle and if he is still higher, go back up to 3.5

Sometimes a food switch from high carb dry to wet low carb can mean a difference in 100 points downward. But Every cat is different, so sometimes a change is overnight- sometimes it takes a week or more. Not sure what a switch from higher wet to lower wet can mean to your kitty.
 
Thank you,
im just hoping he doesnt start dropping when im not home. I will be here tomorrow all day. Should i give the 3.5 tonight?
 
⚠So I woke to no power and was juggling so much I did the 3.5u instead of 3u
his bg was 298 at shot
now 3 1/2 hrs later 154 and he wont finish food.
This was my problem before he will only eat gravy shreds all the way with nothing mixed in.
any advice?
He will eat the wellness by its self as the 6 hr feed at 1/4 th a can.
He just like the chunks it seems and hates having to lick up a lot of pate so he is lazy and will quit after a 4 min or so :(
 
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Hello. I saw the 911 and I am assuming because of the dose and where you are at at +3.5. Well so far still good. I would continue with your plan to feed at your regular time. Are you able to test in an hour say +4.5? He may be good but since this is a new dose, let's just see where it take sus. I am assuming that you are on a human meter. If so, then can you add that to your signature?
 
Yes definitely a drop. You would like to see a 50% drop at nadir and not any too early. So in about 30 minutes, we will see if we need to intervene yet. I will be around and checking on you.
 
Awesome number for you. I can't really tell what his nadir is based on the data on the spreadsheet so I guess I would check it in another hour and if you are in a testing mood today, maybe an hour after that just to see when Mister's nadir is. It would be nice to know. I know with Merlin, it is typically at +5 or +5.5. So that is when I try to test to catch his nadir.
 
Ok i will keep checking than..
im just afraid of when im not here tomorrow with these numbers if he isnt eating all of his food.
Im so used to large numbers i get freaked out with the hundreds
 
I know, right? Those lower numbers are very scary but once you have gone through a couple of low number incidents i.e. 40 and you bring them up with regular low carb food or higher carb food, it is amazing what control you have. Now when you are gone, that is a different story because you don't know. Typically most do not try a new dose unless they are home to monitor hence at night, that is when some try their new numbers and then they set alarms. Have you tried freezing the Wellness and then leaving it for Mister while you are gone for the day?
 
No I havent because he has only had wellness at his 6 hr mini feed.
He has always had friskies beef gravy shreds or turkey and cheese shreds with shot because he will finish all that.
eere at +5.5 hr and 98 bg
 
What a great number today. He must be feeling really comfortable with such a great number. By only feeding him a low carb lunch snack today, it will be interesting see what he give you at PMPS. He may be high tonight if he hasn't experienced a double digit number before at mid-cycle but we will see. Funny how mistakes turn out to be something great.

When you are gone tomorrow, be sure to leave out food. Cats seems to want to eat when they feel themselves getting too low. That is when I leave out the frozen Wellness ice cube pucks.
 
Fed mister his 6hr after shot meal
1/4 th 12.6oz can of wellness chicken
his bg 1 1/2 hr after meal went to 146.
should i keep testing or wait a few?
 
Sorry - I had to run to work so I am sure that it is now getting close to the PMPS. What a nice cycle though.
 
What does PMPS mean?
his preshot tonight was 319 bg
Sometimes i have been so tired lately that i dont wake on time to alarm through the night so I only gave 3.0 u tonight. But I now know to try to test a lot more when Im home for the day. Thank you for helping me through the anxiety today!
 
PMPS means your PM pre-shot and in the AM, it is the AMPS pre-shot number. Mister's PMPS is 319. Today's cycle was a good one. That would be great if you can get a few more tests in. Also, if you can, a test just before you go to bed, that would be most helpful too. We want to make sure he doesn't go low at night so a +3 test or whenever would be great and will ensure you to have a good night's sleep. A +2 test is typically either a little more elevated than the AM/PMPS, sometimes the same or sometimes just a little lower but not much. If it is a drastic drop at the +2 or +3, then you might have a lively cycle. So anyway, it is a good indicator of where Mister will go at night with that test before bedtime. Thanks - nice job testing today.
 
Understanding the spreadsheet/grid:

The colored headings at the top are the ranges of glucose values. They are color-coded to clue you in as to meaning.

Each day is 1 row. Each column stores different data for the day.

From left to right, you enter
the Date in the first column
the AMPS (morning, pre-shot, test) in the 2nd column
the Units given (turquoise column)

Then, there are 11 columns labeled +1 through +11
If you test at +5 (5 hours after the shot), you enter the test number in the +5 column
If you test at +7 (7 hours after the shot), you enter the test number in the +7 column
and so on.

Halfway across the page is the column for PMPS (evening, pre-shot, test)
To the right is another turquoise column for Units given at the evening shot.

There is second set of columns labeled +1 through +11
If you snag a before bed test at +3, you enter the test number in the +3 column.

We separate day and night numbers like that because many cats go lower at night.

The nadir is the lowest glucose between shots. There is a general period when it will happen which is specific to the insulin being used and testing then helps make sure your cat doesn't go too low.

It is merely a grid for storing the info; no math required.
 
I got in a +2 last night before bed but could hold my eyes open any longer. It was 299 bg.
Todays AMPS was 217 so I only gave 2.5 insulin because I wasnt home to watch.
at +5 bg was 176
 
What a nice cycle. It is great to see how the doses are doing. Awesome that you can get a test check during the day. Way to go Mister Mister!
 
PMPS bg was 264 i gave 2.75u
at +2 1/2 bg is 206.
does this mean Im in an active cycle and need to watch more throughout the night
 
So Im not sure why but at +7 bg is 202 and woke to Mister vomiting.
He isnt eating very much of the wellness so Im thinking acid? He just hates having to lick his food up.
Thats why I bought shreds in the past because he would give up snd walk away from pate.
Im doing half and half it just must not taste as good to him.
 
Sorry we weren't around last night. An active cycle would usually be a drop of around 50% in the first couple hours.

Wonder if it'd help to "shred" up the pate? Cut it up and "string" it out a little? Other cats like it made like a gravy, using a little bit of warm water.

I don't know much about Wellness; wonder if it is a little rich for him? Have you tried the standard here: Fancy Feast or Friskies pate? My cat likes FF as long as I make a gravy for it.

Vomiting is stressful and may have brought up the levels a bit.
 
Sorry I wasn't online last night to answer your question. I probably would have been fine with that drop and gone to bed. If it was in the blues, then I would have stayed up. When did you start on Wellness and when did you stop the shreds? Transitioning may cause the vomit. My cats once in a while will vomit especially my Ragdoll. She also tends to eat too much too. But when I was transitioning, we definitely had some vomit for quite a while. I would try to stay away from the shreds. Are you putting water in the Wellness? If you are, maybe not for a while and see if Mister likes that texture.
 
I started mixing half a can of shreds and a 1/4 can of wellness on the 11/2/2015 if you reread this posting i was advised to do it this way so it wouldn't be so drastic of a change at once.
 
It might be that Wellness is just not the food for him. It has some unusual ingredients like fruits and vegetables and I think tends to be a little bit high in fat (someone correct me if I am wrong). Does he seem to like it? Does he scarf and barf? (If the latter, spread the food around on a plate can help.

Slowly transitioning is always wide but sometimes you have to search around for the food that agrees with his tummy, that he will eat and is low enough carb. Not the funniest part of this sugar dance....
 
He likes it by itself but its only 4 carbs for a 12.6 oz can and he would be eating half of a can .. so 2 carbs with 3u insulin compared to what he was doing 15 catbs friskies shreds with 3.5 u.
i think his barf was because it was 7 hrs since he ate and he isnt finishing all his food.
He has always vomited on an empty stomach at 8hrs thats why i do 6 hr mini meals.
 
So then I would just keep doing what you are doing. The thought is that he will start eating (and finishing) those mini meals and have food in his stomach when he needs it. Guess you could divide the food into enough meals to offer one at +8?

Are you using an automatic feeder? These are great for mini meals.
 
No i give 5.5 oz food at insulin and than we just give like 2.5 oz at 6 hrs. .. so full amount at insulin and half that amount in between /= 4 meals a day.. but i had over slept and he didnt eat at 6 hr mark till like 1 hr and 15 min later than usual.
he would probably be ok if he would eat all but he doesnt seem to care for shreds mixed with wellness.
 
We love our Petsmart5. A little pricey (PetSmart will match Amazon's lower price). But wonderful! You can set it by the clock any time you want it to go off and set it so it closes two hours before the pre shot test. Ours got conditioned. Whenever it went off, they came running and of course, they were there, so they went ahead and ate. And it is handy if you think the nadir might be low and you won't be home - you can food in to open at nadir.
 
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