My 12 year old cat was diagnosed with diabetes last December. We are told to give him 3 units of insulin in the morning and 2 units at night. He has figured this out and hides or runs when he thinks we are going to give him a shot. Because of this, we are unable to give him the required amounts of insulin and it is getting harder instead of easier to even give him 1 shot a day. Are there alternatives to injections?
Need alternative to insulin injections
- Thread starter kdillon
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Hillary & Maui (GA)
Very Active Member
Welcome to the group.
Could you share a bit more information, so that we can better assist:
- what insulin are you using?
- where are you shooting the insulin? do you tent the skin prior to shooting?
- what kind of syringes are you using? what size?
- what is your routine for shooting?
- are you home testing?
- what kind of foods are you feeding?
- do you offer food or treats when shooting and/or home testing (assuming you may be doing that too)?
Here is a pic of tenting: http://petdiabetes.wikia.com/wiki/Injecting_insulin
And insulin injection is the only safe insulin to give. The pills are not safe for cats.
So, please answer these questions and we can then offer additional support.
Could you share a bit more information, so that we can better assist:
- what insulin are you using?
- where are you shooting the insulin? do you tent the skin prior to shooting?
- what kind of syringes are you using? what size?
- what is your routine for shooting?
- are you home testing?
- what kind of foods are you feeding?
- do you offer food or treats when shooting and/or home testing (assuming you may be doing that too)?
Here is a pic of tenting: http://petdiabetes.wikia.com/wiki/Injecting_insulin
And insulin injection is the only safe insulin to give. The pills are not safe for cats.
So, please answer these questions and we can then offer additional support.
LynnLee + Mousie
Very Active Member
hi there and welcome.
answering hillary's questions will help us help you so if you have a minute can you do that.
in the meantime i will continue
cats will often shy away from us humans if they tie what you are doing to something bad. what we've found over the years is sometimes they do it because getting the insulin makes them feel bad, either because they are being given too much and they are put on a rollercoaster of glucose levels thru the day which doesn't feel good or there are some insulins that just don't make a cat feel good because of how it effects them.
or even something as simple as the insulin being too cold when given and it stings or using too big of a syringe or holding the syringe at the wrong angle and tearing thru the skin vs just sliding thru.
as far as your food/losing weight thread, this is probably because his diabetes is out of control and he doesn't feel good. unfortunately, without that insulin he can very easily and rather quickly develop complications like ketones or diabetic ketoacidosis and without proper nutrition he can end up with hepatic lipidosis so it's pertinent that we get this figured out quickly.
fwiw, if you feel comfortable doing so, you can post the nearest large city to your location in case the issue is how the shot is given or if you aren't hometesting and want to start doing that, one of us can help out in any way possible.
answering hillary's questions will help us help you so if you have a minute can you do that.
in the meantime i will continue
cats will often shy away from us humans if they tie what you are doing to something bad. what we've found over the years is sometimes they do it because getting the insulin makes them feel bad, either because they are being given too much and they are put on a rollercoaster of glucose levels thru the day which doesn't feel good or there are some insulins that just don't make a cat feel good because of how it effects them.
or even something as simple as the insulin being too cold when given and it stings or using too big of a syringe or holding the syringe at the wrong angle and tearing thru the skin vs just sliding thru.
as far as your food/losing weight thread, this is probably because his diabetes is out of control and he doesn't feel good. unfortunately, without that insulin he can very easily and rather quickly develop complications like ketones or diabetic ketoacidosis and without proper nutrition he can end up with hepatic lipidosis so it's pertinent that we get this figured out quickly.
fwiw, if you feel comfortable doing so, you can post the nearest large city to your location in case the issue is how the shot is given or if you aren't hometesting and want to start doing that, one of us can help out in any way possible.
We are using Humulin N insulin.
We tent the skin and shoot in the back of neck or shoulder area.
We are using BD Insulin Syringes with the BD Ultra-Fine needle, capacity = 3/10, length = 12.7mm, guage = 30G.
First gave shots when he was eating and not paying attention but then he caught on and would run if he thought we were coming up behind him to give injection. Now, after we see he has eaten in the morning, one of us will pick him up (if we can catch him) and the other gives the injection as it takes 4 hands to be successful. We also use this method at night after seeing him eat.
No home testing.
Have given prescription hard Hill's M/D, prescription soft Hill's M/D when he stopped eating the hard, soft Friskies Prime Gourmet then stopped eating that after few days, regular tuna, stopped eating after a few days,deli meat, cheese, milk, Gerber's Graduates drink, Pounce moist treats and more that he will only eat for a day or two and then won't eat at all so we try anything, per the vet's orders.
We tent the skin and shoot in the back of neck or shoulder area.
We are using BD Insulin Syringes with the BD Ultra-Fine needle, capacity = 3/10, length = 12.7mm, guage = 30G.
First gave shots when he was eating and not paying attention but then he caught on and would run if he thought we were coming up behind him to give injection. Now, after we see he has eaten in the morning, one of us will pick him up (if we can catch him) and the other gives the injection as it takes 4 hands to be successful. We also use this method at night after seeing him eat.
No home testing.
Have given prescription hard Hill's M/D, prescription soft Hill's M/D when he stopped eating the hard, soft Friskies Prime Gourmet then stopped eating that after few days, regular tuna, stopped eating after a few days,deli meat, cheese, milk, Gerber's Graduates drink, Pounce moist treats and more that he will only eat for a day or two and then won't eat at all so we try anything, per the vet's orders.
LynnLee + Mousie
Very Active Member
well well, all that looks pretty good. except the insulin. humulin n is more often than not the insulin we see involved in what you are describing. here's some reading for you about N
viewtopic.php?f=19&t=303
N unfortunately isn't the most kitty friendly insulin as it tends to drop the BG levels relatively quickly to their lowest levels for the day and then poops out or stops working rather early. thus the rollercoaster i mentioned early. up down up down up down. yuck!
usually when we see the biggest rollercoasters, it is because the dose is wrong and its really making kitty feel like crap.
soooooooooooooooooo, what i would suggest is go back to 1 unit twice a day and try to pick up hometesting as that will tell you if that 1 unit is working and how well. the other option is to try a gentler insulin. yes they will be more expensive than the N as that is the cheapest one out there but it will be worth it for the cooperation and how it makes your kitty feel.
now though, you have to break the conditioning that he's already learned about the shots. i'd really like for others to chime in on this with suggestions as it's gonna probably mean trying several ways and figuring out which one works best with your kitty.
viewtopic.php?f=19&t=303
N unfortunately isn't the most kitty friendly insulin as it tends to drop the BG levels relatively quickly to their lowest levels for the day and then poops out or stops working rather early. thus the rollercoaster i mentioned early. up down up down up down. yuck!
usually when we see the biggest rollercoasters, it is because the dose is wrong and its really making kitty feel like crap.
soooooooooooooooooo, what i would suggest is go back to 1 unit twice a day and try to pick up hometesting as that will tell you if that 1 unit is working and how well. the other option is to try a gentler insulin. yes they will be more expensive than the N as that is the cheapest one out there but it will be worth it for the cooperation and how it makes your kitty feel.
now though, you have to break the conditioning that he's already learned about the shots. i'd really like for others to chime in on this with suggestions as it's gonna probably mean trying several ways and figuring out which one works best with your kitty.
Sue and Oliver (GA)
Very Active Member
You will get lots of ideas to help.
Humulin N is not an easy insulin to regulate a cat with. It hits fast and doesn't last long in most cats. Most people here use Lantus, Levemir or PZI.
Sometimes cats realize that the insulin is making them feel lousy and they resist the shot. So it could be the roller coaster of Humulin that he is objecting to, or it could be that you are giving too much insulin. You really need to start hometesting. (Not testing has been compared to driving down the freeway with a bag over your head...) You have to know what his numbers are so you know if you are giving too much insulin and risking hypo. We may have someone who lives near you and could help you learn how (post your city and state) or we have taught lots of people over the internet. Here is a video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zE12-4fVn8
It is important not to give insulin if he is not eating. Have you tried a nice stinky wet food, warmed up in the microwave? Other ideas are to add parmesan cheese or Bonito flakes. (Kitty Kaviar) Lots of cats don't like the canned Purina DM. How about Fancy Feast?
Humulin N is not an easy insulin to regulate a cat with. It hits fast and doesn't last long in most cats. Most people here use Lantus, Levemir or PZI.
Sometimes cats realize that the insulin is making them feel lousy and they resist the shot. So it could be the roller coaster of Humulin that he is objecting to, or it could be that you are giving too much insulin. You really need to start hometesting. (Not testing has been compared to driving down the freeway with a bag over your head...) You have to know what his numbers are so you know if you are giving too much insulin and risking hypo. We may have someone who lives near you and could help you learn how (post your city and state) or we have taught lots of people over the internet. Here is a video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zE12-4fVn8
It is important not to give insulin if he is not eating. Have you tried a nice stinky wet food, warmed up in the microwave? Other ideas are to add parmesan cheese or Bonito flakes. (Kitty Kaviar) Lots of cats don't like the canned Purina DM. How about Fancy Feast?
Hillary & Maui (GA)
Very Active Member
Thank you for the answers, it helps us help you: I will give you my standard welcome and this may also help give you more things to research and think about:
WELCOME, this forum is a great place to gain knowledge and really learn how to manage feline diabetes. By doing just a few things each day (that really won't take up much of your time at all), you won't need to worry about losing your precious cat, not where feline diabetes is concerned.
There are three key factors to managing diabetes: food/nutrition, home testing and insulin
1) Feline Nutrition: Now, as far as diet - definitely dump the dry food (if you are feeding any) and if the vet recommends purchasing prescription food like DM just say "no thank you". ALL cats, and especially those with diabetes, do best on a species appropriate diet that is high in protein and low in carbs. Dry food DOES NOT fit that bill and DM food, even canned, just really isn't that great as far as quality. Most here on FDMB feed low carb/high protein canned, raw bought from a pet store or they make there own.
Here great links, one is to a food chart put together by one of our board members that breaks down the carb % and protein % of most of the commercial brand foods. You want to keep the carb % below 10% and around 7% is great. The other link is to a site by a vet "Dr. Lisa DVM" ... who also posts on this board from time to time ... there is in-depth info. there about many things, including nutrition and how to make raw food.
Nutrition/food info
The good thing with feeding your diabetic cat this way, is that it is ALSO good for any non-diabetic cat too. All your cats can safely eat the same food without worry and it may save you some costs and headaches of having to do separate feedings and keeping track of what they are eating.
2. Home testing: It is impossible to convey the value of testing your cat's BG (blood glucose) level at home. Some vets will "suggest" this, but most won't even mention it. They will send you home with insulin and an amount to shoot and maybe some instructions about hypoglycemia (blood sugar dropping to a dangerously low level).
Well, the thing is, human diabetics don't EVER give themselves insulin without checking there BG to make sure it is safe to do so, so why shouldn't it be the same for our kitties. Here on FDMB it is. You will notice that the vast majority of people here test their cat's BG at least 2x/day (before giving each shot to make sure the level is safe enough) and periodically at other times to see how the cat is responding to the current dose. We use a human glucometer, test strips and lancets - which are all very readily available and easy to use.
Our kitties get lots of love and treats for "putting up" with this and most of them actually come out to be tested on their own 'cause they want those treats . Here is a collection of great links that "Carolyn and Spot" pulled together about hometesting. See what you think ... it truly is the best way to not only keep Your cat safe but also really get a handle on this disease and help him to live a healthy life with FD (feline diabetes).
Home testing Links
3. Insulin: There are several types of insulin available. Many people, myself included use Lantus or Levimer both of which are great insulins. They are gentle insulin and given twice (BID) per day in 12 hour increments. . Or you could also choose PZI or the new version called Prozinc.
Please read up on the insulins available, here is a link to the Insulin Support Groups:
Insulin Support Groups
However, one caveat and again this shows how these three things are inter-related:
If you are feeding dry food or even a high carb food, BEFORE removing these foods, please make sure of your insulin dose as it will most likely need to be reduced, so as to avoid a possible hypoglycemic situation due to the removal of the dry/high carb foods that will lower the BG’s and reduce the amount of insulin required. Again, another reason why home testing is important.
I know this all seems like a lot, and that's because it is ... there is a learning curve here. But as long as you are determined and keep at it, you will have it down before you know it and you'll be seeing the results in Your cat' overall health and happiness. Ask all the questions you can think of - that's why we are here!
Also, if you haven't done it yet, take the time and fill out your profile. It will help when others come on and read this. Also, let us know where you live - city/state as there are probably people in your area who can provide on the ground support and help you to learn home testing, etc.
WELCOME, this forum is a great place to gain knowledge and really learn how to manage feline diabetes. By doing just a few things each day (that really won't take up much of your time at all), you won't need to worry about losing your precious cat, not where feline diabetes is concerned.
There are three key factors to managing diabetes: food/nutrition, home testing and insulin
1) Feline Nutrition: Now, as far as diet - definitely dump the dry food (if you are feeding any) and if the vet recommends purchasing prescription food like DM just say "no thank you". ALL cats, and especially those with diabetes, do best on a species appropriate diet that is high in protein and low in carbs. Dry food DOES NOT fit that bill and DM food, even canned, just really isn't that great as far as quality. Most here on FDMB feed low carb/high protein canned, raw bought from a pet store or they make there own.
Here great links, one is to a food chart put together by one of our board members that breaks down the carb % and protein % of most of the commercial brand foods. You want to keep the carb % below 10% and around 7% is great. The other link is to a site by a vet "Dr. Lisa DVM" ... who also posts on this board from time to time ... there is in-depth info. there about many things, including nutrition and how to make raw food.
Nutrition/food info
The good thing with feeding your diabetic cat this way, is that it is ALSO good for any non-diabetic cat too. All your cats can safely eat the same food without worry and it may save you some costs and headaches of having to do separate feedings and keeping track of what they are eating.
2. Home testing: It is impossible to convey the value of testing your cat's BG (blood glucose) level at home. Some vets will "suggest" this, but most won't even mention it. They will send you home with insulin and an amount to shoot and maybe some instructions about hypoglycemia (blood sugar dropping to a dangerously low level).
Well, the thing is, human diabetics don't EVER give themselves insulin without checking there BG to make sure it is safe to do so, so why shouldn't it be the same for our kitties. Here on FDMB it is. You will notice that the vast majority of people here test their cat's BG at least 2x/day (before giving each shot to make sure the level is safe enough) and periodically at other times to see how the cat is responding to the current dose. We use a human glucometer, test strips and lancets - which are all very readily available and easy to use.
Our kitties get lots of love and treats for "putting up" with this and most of them actually come out to be tested on their own 'cause they want those treats . Here is a collection of great links that "Carolyn and Spot" pulled together about hometesting. See what you think ... it truly is the best way to not only keep Your cat safe but also really get a handle on this disease and help him to live a healthy life with FD (feline diabetes).
Home testing Links
3. Insulin: There are several types of insulin available. Many people, myself included use Lantus or Levimer both of which are great insulins. They are gentle insulin and given twice (BID) per day in 12 hour increments. . Or you could also choose PZI or the new version called Prozinc.
Please read up on the insulins available, here is a link to the Insulin Support Groups:
Insulin Support Groups
However, one caveat and again this shows how these three things are inter-related:
If you are feeding dry food or even a high carb food, BEFORE removing these foods, please make sure of your insulin dose as it will most likely need to be reduced, so as to avoid a possible hypoglycemic situation due to the removal of the dry/high carb foods that will lower the BG’s and reduce the amount of insulin required. Again, another reason why home testing is important.
I know this all seems like a lot, and that's because it is ... there is a learning curve here. But as long as you are determined and keep at it, you will have it down before you know it and you'll be seeing the results in Your cat' overall health and happiness. Ask all the questions you can think of - that's why we are here!
Also, if you haven't done it yet, take the time and fill out your profile. It will help when others come on and read this. Also, let us know where you live - city/state as there are probably people in your area who can provide on the ground support and help you to learn home testing, etc.
Ok, people on this site probably arnt going to like me even mentioning this but if u try EVERYTHING that people have suggested to u with no success there is a pill named glipizide that may work. My cat has been on it for 5 years instead of insulin and has never had a problem, however it's not a good option for many reasons, but to me it's better then nothing. It doesn't work for every cat and from what I've read on this site can even make some worse. Plus cats have more of a chance of going into remission from using insulin, I'm seriously considering switching my cat to insulin myself with what I know now. With that said, the pill is very easy to give to my cat and easy to just slip into their food if needed. I'm sure he'll start eating more when his diabetes starts getting regulated.
-Laura & Tigger
-Laura & Tigger
Hillary & Maui (GA)
Very Active Member
Tigger12 said:
Before even considering this drug - I strongly suggest that you do your own research and truly learn about this drug and how it interacts in the cat.
Personally, I will not recommend it nor suggest even using it.
Kimber and Bunny GA
Member
Glipizide...I had no luck. However, it is still important to hometest even using the pill. I have seen cats HYPO on it...
Great suggestions from all, especially about the hometesting. Bunny WANTED his shot because it made him feel better. Annie started to get fussy about her shot when she was getting too much insulin and it was making her feel sick. When was the last time anyone did a curve on kitty? He may need his dosage reduced and that Could be part of the problem.
Great suggestions from all, especially about the hometesting. Bunny WANTED his shot because it made him feel better. Annie started to get fussy about her shot when she was getting too much insulin and it was making her feel sick. When was the last time anyone did a curve on kitty? He may need his dosage reduced and that Could be part of the problem.
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