my cat is losing too much weight

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Sarah58

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He has been diagnosed for 4 months and on insulin, and it has been hard to get him regulated. He still has high blood sugar, at least higher than we would like, he is on 4mg twice a day, of caninsulin. But he is losing so much weight, at his last check the vet said to increase his food intake but the weight is still going down. Has anyone any ideas what is going on?
 
How often and how much does he eat?
Carl
 
He was having Purina DM but has gone off that now having Natures Menu. Fed at insulin times and also often throughout the day. The vet said to increase his insulin, (she hasnt mentioned another one as yet), to help the weight loss but he is so thin, just bones apart from his stomach.
 
I'm not familiar with natures menu, is it dry food? What are the carbs? Have you looked over binkys food chart?

I'm by no means an expert but I can tell you about our experience. Raja too lost a LOT of weight, she lost 9 pounds in a matter of weeks and this time around she lost almost a pound. Now that I've got her blood sugar somewhat under control she's gaining weight. I also supplement her food with canned tuna, her fav, to help her put on some weight and eat after a shot

We use friskies canned (no gravy!) food and Raja eats that up.

Have you set up your ss yet?
 
Do you have any blood glucose reading you can provide?
I suspect that you are giving 4 units of insulin since insulin is measured in units not mg.
I recommend that you learn how to test your cats BG yourself. You cat is likely loosing weight since his blood glucose levels are to high. More insluin may be needed but maybe 4 units is too high.
 
Natures Menu is a high protein wet food recommended by the vet but not prescription. He also has raw chicken, sardines. Sorry I meant units. That was interesting about Raja as that was what the vet said when she increased the insulin to 4, that it would help his weight, but not so far. I am home testing and uk bg has been high, often around 19, now more around 13 but still losing weight. So how do I work out what insulin on these bg results. As he was tested at the vet a week ago and she just said to increase it. Clark is 15. Really appreciating the advice, it feels like a minefield trying to get it right.
 
Are you home testing? It is very possible that he is getting too much or even too little insulin, however the only way to know is by home testing.

And as others suggested, would you consider changing insulins.

He may still be losing weight because he isn't regulated yet and may have very high BG's.
 
All of this is confusing and stressful but once you get the hang of it all it will be a lot easier

Sounds like the food is ok, when did you start the new food and how much are you giving him?

Are you testing at home? I've found with Raja that it's pointless to test her at the vet because she's so stressed out over the car ride and the new smells and new people that her BG shoots up. If I test her at home when she's in her own element then I get a more accurate reading. Plus is TONS cheaper.

If you aren't home testing I'd recommend doing that because it's scary blindly giving a shot of insulin without knowing what the BG is. If you get a chance click on Raja's chart, the link is in my signature, and look at the time her BG was 78. If I hadn't known it was 78 I would have given her insulin and there is a good chance her BG would have gone way too low and caused a whole host of problems, maybe even death. Even last night I waited to give her insulin until her BG went up a little more because she was too low in my opinion to shoot.
 
It is very confusing and I feel very worried that I might get it wrong. I am home testing, although Clark is very laid back at the vet, she too thought I would get more accurate readings at home, so the numbers I am getting now are done at home. He gets 1 sachet each insulin then the chicken and sardines plus as and when he wants it, because he is still often asking for food, so I think he eats quite a lot, and he was a bit overweight before he started the insulin. Thank you for the links will look at them with interest. I havent done an ss yet.
 
I was in your shoes too, everything was overwhelming and I was just waiting to mess up and cause Raja major problems but I listened to the people here along with my gut and read as much as I could before I made any drastic changes.

An online ss makes it easier for everyone else to help you and recommend changes to the amount of insulin or even switching insulin.

I'd talk to your vet about switching and of course do your research, Lantus seems to be the most popular around here and that's what I've got Raja on.

I free feed Raja, I have 2 cats so I set out 2 cans of Friskies 5.5ozs a piece each morning and it stays there till the following morning. In the evening i put a can of tuna along with the juice down for Raja.

Another thing that I just recently went through, what cat litter do you use? We were using WBCL (world's best cat litter) and since it was corn based Raja was eating it causing her BG levels to rise. If you're using that I'd recommend watching to see if he's eating it and if so I'd try something else.
 
Thank you so much for all the great advice. Will get on with that ss, I have it all down on bits of paper at the moment. Clark hardly ever uses a litter tray, and I have never seen him eating litter if he does use it when the weather is bad, we have a totally enclosed garden, which is his very own litter tray . The vet has never mentioned Lantus, although she did say that a change could be an option.
 
loxwood58 said:
He has been diagnosed for 4 months and on insulin, and it has been hard to get him regulated. He still has high blood sugar, at least higher than we would like, he is on 4mg twice a day, of caninsulin. But he is losing so much weight, at his last check the vet said to increase his food intake but the weight is still going down. Has anyone any ideas what is going on?
Click to expand...

Where are you based? Are you in the UK? Do you have a record of your kitty's blood glucouse numbers for the past 4 months since he has been on insulin. Could you please put them in the spreadsheet? Most members here use mg/dL for blood glucose. If you are using mmol/dL, please multiply your number by 18. This wil ensure that there is no misunderstanding in interpretating your kitty's blood glucose numbers.

Nature's Menue is good food (low carb). Kudos to your vet for recomending the right diet. That was what I fed my kitty after he was dx with diabetes.

If your kitty has been on Canisulin for the past four months, and he is still losing weight with high blood glucose numbers. I think you need to seriously consider changing the insulin. I know Canisulin is the only licensed insulin for veterinary use in the UK and Europe but I know you can get either Lantus or Levemir in the UK or Europe.

Canisulin has a shorter duration (approx. 6 to 8 hours) than Lantus or Levemir (10 to 12 hours) which means if you give Canisulin twice a day to your kitty, there are quite few hours a day your kitty has no or very little insulin left in his body before the next shot. To help your kitty's pancreas to heal, ideally you want to keep his glucose numbers under normal range (3 to 8 mmol/dL) for as long as possible. This is rather difficult to achieve with short acting insulin such as Canisulin.

There have been quite few posts regarding insulin types and what to choose in the past few days. Please have a look at these posts.
 
Thank you for the excellent advice. I did get in touch with my vet and she agreed that we had given caninsulin a good try, the only animal insulin approved in the UK, so have now started on Lantus. He is now on 1u twice a day and I took his bg this morning which was 17.3 (I think that is around 300 USA ). Forgot to mention that I am using a human monitor which I have heard reads slightly lower than an animal one.
 
loxwood58 said:
Thank you for the excellent advice. I did get in touch with my vet and she agreed that we had given caninsulin a good try, the only animal insulin approved in the UK, so have now started on Lantus. He is now on 1u twice a day and I took his bg this morning which was 17.3 (I think that is around 300 USA ). Forgot to mention that I am using a human monitor which I have heard reads slightly lower than an animal one.
Click to expand...

Sorry, I don't know your name. I am very glad that your kitty is now on Lantus. I am not a Lantus user; therefore, I will not be able to give you any dosing advice but we have many Lantus users on this board. If you ever have any question or doubt, please send a post in the Insulin Support Group - Lantus users. There is also a lot of info on Lantus which you can find in the Insulin Support Group under Lantus users. You are in good hand!

By the way, the BG difference between a human meter and a meter for veterinary use is negligible. I used to bring my own human meter to my vet's clinic and checked my kitty's BG value using both my meter and vet's meter for animals. The values are quite close.

When you have time, could you please put your kitty's BG values in the spread sheet. Here's how you can do it:

http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=18207
 
Until he gets regulated, let him eat as much as he wants.

Without the right insulin level to allow the glucose to be used by the body, its like starving.
 
Could kitty also be hyperthyroid. My diabetic and hyperthyroid kitty both started weight loss at the same time. Both were quite dramatic weight losses.
 
My name is Sarah, forgot to introduce myself. I have asked about thyroid and he has been tested and it seems ok, but max has an enormous appetite. I know I cant starve him and my vet has said to just feed him if he is hungry, but that could be 24/7, but will I be able to get him regulated if he is constantly eating?
 
loxwood58 said:
I know I cant starve him and my vet has said to just feed him if he is hungry, but that could be 24/7, but will I be able to get him regulated if he is constantly eating?
Click to expand...

Yes, Sarah, feed him all he wants. Uncontrolled diabetic are voracious but they cannot utilize the food they eat. If you try to limit his food, you will just make him more miserable than he already his. Don't worry about it. His appetite will return to normal once he gets regulated.

Congratulations on the switch to Lantus. It is very important to point out that Lantus and Levemir are newer insulins that do not work the way the older insulins work. Both of these insulins, on first use, are not fully effective for the first 4 or 5 days. Much of the insulin initially gets stored in the cat's tissure -- this is called a depot or shed. Once this depot or shed is filled up, then the full dose will be available. So it is important to let your initial dose "settle" before you consider making any dosage changes.

Another important thing to keep in mind with Lantus and Levemir. Eating at shot time is not that important the way it is with older insulins. Most cats like to snack and as long as the cat is eating, that is all that is important -- it is not that important when he eats.

I'm looking forward to seeing your spreadsheet when you get it set up.

Lana
 
You also want to make sure you test for ketones. There is a strip you run into the urine stream (or dip into a fresh puddle in the litterbox) that easily accomplishes this. If the blood sugar is uncontrolled the body starts breaking itself down because it's not getting energy from the food. Ketoacidosis is NOT something to play with, so please check if you're not already doing so.
 
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