Munchie trouble with regulation

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ewest

ewest

Member Since 2011
Hi All,
Checking in on Munchie...feeling little confused/concerned as I've been working on trying to get her regulated for about 6 months and we're still not there. She has sprinkles of blues and greens since she started on Lantus but no daily consistency. Recently, you can see on her chart that I tried to slightly up her dose and she dove---2x recently. First, I tried increasing 1.5 to 1.75 (dove to 32). Then backed down to 1.5, waited a few days, and tried a fat 1.5 ---still dove (to 24!) At her diabetes diagnosis, she was diagnosed with pancreatitis and an unknown possible issue with her liver; they did ultrasound and bloodwork but no conclusion. In any case, those are factoring in I'm sure--as would her age--she'll be 18 in April. She's obviously responding to the insulin but not getting consistent blues and greens and seem to have trouble being able to up her dose without her diving. Anyone experience this with their cat?

Thanks.
 
Hi, Elizabeth!

the only input I can offer is hopes that someone will chime in with some good info and that munchie will even out for you...

celi
 
Well, since we know 1.5U is out, maybe try a reboot. Are you comfortable dropping her dose below 1U? Maybe .75U?

You're doing very good with testing recently and you've caught some good lows. By "good lows" I mean BGs that yield good data, which seems to suggest she is not just bouncing but rebounding to the amount of insulin. I worry about too much insulin whenever I see so many 500s.

I realize she had quite a few 400s when on 1U. That would lead one to think 1U is not enough. Yet going to 1.25U created lows and hard bounces but not enough to cause 500s. Only going higher causes 500s. Notice a pattern there? That's why I'm not entirely a fan of increasing doses to "train the liver."

Sometimes when people read the following Wiki pet Diabetes page, they recognize their cat's cycles in it. http://petdiabetes.wikia.com/wiki/Rebound

What do you think? My goal whenever I recommend someone lower the dose below a dose that has been tried before is to even out the cycles. It's easier to go up from below the best dose than trying to go down from too high of dose. Some cats need to be below 1U to start.

The usual cautions apply when lowering a dose, such as ketone testing and making sure she eats. The possible pancreatitis flares are a concern. What is her current diet? Bless her at 18! I'm sure you're glad she eats whatever she eats. How did her last bloodwork look in regards to liver and kidney values? Any weight loss or poor oral hygiene to suggest something affecting regulation? Thanks for the background. I'm sure you've repeated it somewhere. You can link to a previous post if you'd like. Just select the URL tab above and put the link inside the code.

Good luck and let's see what others think tomorrow before you go anywhere with the dose.
 
Elizabeth, I don't have anything dosing insights to add at this time. I just wanted to let you know that folks are reading your post. Vicky, thanks for offering Elizabeth your thoughts. And the visit from celi and binks, one of FDMB's most "positive" people.

Poor Muchie has been going through a lot lately. Losing her brother TC, swings in BG levels, cystitis symptoms. You are so doing your best to keep your "old lady" healthy.

IS Munchie an "only" cat now? The reason I ask is that you mentioned on her SS about her grieving for TC. My Ennis is about the same age as Munchie, and there was a point when, after living most his life with his littermate Max and two other cats, he was the only cat here. Even though I was home most of everyday, Ennis's energy level got very low. It is clear you care about "the whole Munchie" given the alternative modalities you use with her and her long diet (even before diabetes) of raw food. So I suspect you will agree that a low energy level is not good for overall health.

We got kittens, and having kittens flying through the house did a lot to improve Ennis's energy level and outlook on life. No, I am NOT saying to get kittens. But I am suggesting that maybe Munchie needs some more sensory input when you are not there with her. Leaving a radio on, playing classical music. Maybe getting one of those cat videos with the birds and bugs. Calling the house answering machine (if you have one that you can hear as it is recording) and talking to Munchie a couple times a day. Maybe having a neighbor drop in and visit with her for a bit a couple times a week (or maybe even a pet sitter if that is in your budget).

My best to you and Munchie. I know how very special these "elders" are.
 
Hi can you tell me what Nat Mur is and if possible give me a link to it? I am curious if that is causing her numbers to be elevated. For instance, if there's sugar in it, she could be driven high by it and when the sugar high evaporates, she could be left at the lows you are seeing..
Thanks!
Carolyn
 
Thanks everyone. For the questions:

1) She's on a raw diet (no carb) and has been raw fed since 3years old. Did consult with vet nutritionist recently for her to check-in on composition for her condition and tweaked as needed.

2) Her recent bloodwork still showed elevated liver values. Her kidney readings were good for her (only slightly elevated creatinine.) They didn't add in the pancreatitis check but I have a follow-up with my regular vet on the 21st for recheck and we're going to do this.

3) Nat Mur is a homeopathic remedy and homeopathy is safely used with both human and animal diabetics. I've reviewed this with my homeopath and the dose she gets is so small that her normal food would contain more natural sugar than it. Her readings actually improved as a result of the remedy. If I were to see an issue, though, we could dose it in water, but dry dosing is what is recommended right now.

Posted on a new thread but decided to lower her tonight to 1 unit because of her urine test showing no glucose at all. See that one for more info.

Thanks.
 
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