Mr. Clooney's super-high numbers are now dropping into

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desertmare

Member Since 2013
"normal" highs, and it's scarey. He's had such scarey high numbers that
now that it's finally dropping, I'm finding that frightening too. I'm afraid it will drop too much! He had been on Humilin N, and not regulating even up to 6units every 12 hours. The glucometer came right before I went out of town and he was over 600, so I left him with the vet while I was gone for 5 days. The PZI (my request) came in while I was gone, and the Doc started it at low dose.When I brought Mr. C home, he had me go up to 3, then 4, and still super-high, Yesterday he had me go up to 5 units. His numbers dropped dramatically, to the lowest they have been. Which is good. But made me so nervous I backed down to 4 1/2. They went down again today, so this eve I went back to 4.

I'm asking for some input from people with experience. Am I over-reacting? I'm feeling like maybe we weren't giving the PZI time to really kick in~but maybe that's lack of understanding how it works. And even tho I can't always get a reading, I'm thankful that reading these forums let me know I needed to start checking his glucose. (Boy, do I hope that gets easier and more consistant!).

Another unrelated question: The switch to wet food, altho slow, has given my boy diahrrea. I'm giving him FortiFlora, but it doesn't seem to help. Vet's suggestion is canned pumpkin, but won't that add too many carbs? Do others have this problem? Have you used pumpkin? other squash? What about using psillium husks?

Mr. C is also on Enalapril for heart failure~~Which may have been caused by starting insulin? I'm totally confused there, but it started at the same time, suddenly he was no longer peeing excessively, and fluid built up in his lungs. So for a couple of months he was also on Lasix, and as his numbers do come down and he stops peeing copiously, I have to be on the lookout for a fluid build-up again.

Thanks for your help/input Attached are the records I've kept since getting back.
 

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The heart failure is not caused by diabetes, at least not directly (as far as I know, for both humans and cats).

Fluid balance in the body can be disrupted by either condition. Poor circulation may cause fluid to back up in various portions of the body depending on what part of the heart has weakened (left, right, or both sides). Diabetes results in excess urination which may leave the body dehydrated. As the diabetes is controlled, less fluid will be excreted, which may then put more workload on the heart. It will be a tightrope to keep in balance.

You'll want to check with the vet for ways to monitor for too much fluid (overload). I suspect breathing might be somewhat more difficult and activity level reduced.

You can check for dehydration as follows:
Gently pull up the scruff of the neck and release. If the scruff stays pulled up - 'tented' - there is moderate to severe dehydration.
Test 2 is more subtle. Gently lift the lip and firmly press your finger on the gum. Release. If the blood promptly returns to the gum, all is well. If it stays blanched, the cat is dehydrated. Also, the gums will feel sticky/tacky to the touch.
 
I can't see your spreadsheet on my phone. If you upload it to Google Docs, publish it to the web, and share it, most of us will be able to review it.

Instructions are in the Tech Support forum.
 
Mr. Clooney's records for past week

Since I can't access Google, I'm adding them into my post (it's only a week)

Clooney's numbers (3 Units PZI)

2:03 pm Sunday March 10 498
7:40 pm “ “ “ HI 600+

8 am Monday March 11 454
2:40pm “ “ “ 540
7:45 pm 481

7:30 am Tuesday Mar 12 563 (½ hour after brekkie)
1:40 pm 312 (only wet food today)
7:50 pm 592



7 :30 am Wed Mar 13 unable to get blood
2: 00 pm 392
7:35 pm 580

7:40 pm insulin 4 units , per Dr. Wilson


8:00 am Wednesday Mar 14 HI 600+ brekkie at 7;30, and had had DM at 4am 4 units PZI
1:00pm error~~ not enough blood (poked him 5 times)
7:27 pm 512
7:30 pm fur shot came out other side :( then gave 1unit

6:00 ish and onwards = brekkie
6:30 Friday March 15 HI 600+
6:45 4 units PZI
9:15 500
11:30 HI (WTF?)
4:38 pm 436
6:37pm 523
6:45 4 units PZI


6:30 am no blood
7:am Saturday, March 16th 5 units PZI
3pm 161 omg~how low did it go???)
7:13 pm 390
7:20 pm 4 ½ units PZI


7:32 St. Patty's Day 465
7:35 4 ½ units PZI
1:29 137
7:55 358
8pm 4 units PZI


7:39 am Monday, Mar 18 355
7:45 am 4 ½ units PZI
 
He is really bouncing and generally coming down. The difficult part of your dance is to be careful he doesn't go too low. I would say your dose is high. We usually start PZI kitties at .5 to one unit and then slowly increase as the home testing suggests. But with his heart issues, I would be reluctant to have you do a restart at one unit. The change to wet food also complicates the picture as it can mean a gradual reduction of numbers, and insulin needed.

Can you be around to watch him carefully - especially at that midcycle point? If so, I think I would reduce the dose to 2 units, test preshot and midcycle and see what kind of numbers you get. It is possible that he is bouncing from the lower midcycle numbers to the higher ones. (A bounce is when the body senses it is lower than usual - like the 137 - and releases extra glucose. That sugar makes the numbers rise - not naturally, but in response to the low number. Shooting a normal dose into the artificially elevated number starts a roller coaster effect of high and low numbers.) Here is a more scientific explanation: http://petdiabetes.wikia.com/wiki/Somogyi_rebound

If you do reduce, also test for ketones. Reducing insulin requires some extra monitoring. The nice thing with ProZinc is that if you don't see a reduction in the numbers and the swings from high to low, you can start increasing slowly. (we suggest by .5 units, not by whole units)
 
I'm going to scold you here:
Important: whenever you have a fur shot DO NOT GIVE MORE INSULIN! You do not know how much may have gone in and could wind up sending Clooney into a hypo.

As an fyi - because we are all in different time zones, we like to give the numbers in relation to when the shot was. So, AMPS is the morning or AM, preshot and PMPS is the evening preshot. Tests after that are +hours after the shot. And we make notes off to the right about anything which may be important - hairballs, ketones, eating and drinking, etc.

Cleaned up the number list you gave:
Clooney's numbers & notes
3/10/2013
AMPS ~ ???; 3 Units PZI
? ~ 498
PMPS ~ 600 + HI
3/11/2013
AMPS ~ 454
+8.5 ~ 540
PMPS ~ 481
3/12/2013
AMPS ~ 563 ; ½ hour after brekkie
+6 ~ 312 ; only wet food today
PMPS ~ 592
3/13/2013
AMPS ; unable to get blood
+6.5 ~ 392
PMPS ~ 580 ; insulin 4 units, per Dr. Wilson
3/14/2013
AMPS ~ 600 ; + HI; 4 units PZI; brekkie at 7:30, and had had DM at 4am
+5 ~ ?? ; error~~ not enough blood (poked him 5 times)
PMPS ~ 512 ; fur shot came out other side :( then gave 1 unit
3/15/2013
AMPS ~ 600 HI ; 4 units PZI; 6:00-ish and onwards = brekkie
+2.75 ~ 500
+5 ~ 600 HI ; (WTF?)
+10 ~ 436
PMPS ~ 523 ; 4 units PZI
3/16/2013
AMPS ~ ?? ; no blood; 5 units PZI
+8.5 ~ 161 ; (omg~how low did it go???)
PMPS ~ 390 ; 4 ½ units PZI
3/17/2013
AMPS ~ 465 ; 4 ½ units PZI St. Patty's Day
+6 ~ 137
PMPS ~ 358 ; 4 units PZI
3/18/2013
AMPS ~ 355 ; 4 ½ units PZI
 
LOL, Sue~ no, I don't call him George. (shudder).. Not a name I would have chosen, but he's a rescue I've been fostering for close to two years (now with the diabetes, I think I'm definitely a permanent mama).

Figuring out the spreadsheet is going to take more time than I have right now, but I did just download it. But if I have to use Google to post here, I'm in trouble. I coogle+et a new google account because I have one. And I haven't been able to access that one in 6-8 months. I went around and around and around with them and finally just told everyone my gmail was no longer good and see me on fb not google+. Once I figure out the spread sheet, can I just add it as an attachment?
 
BJM ~ I found this site a month ago when I had shot through and was freaking out and looking for info. As per board advice I did not give any insulin that night. But this time he was over 600, and I saw an actual glob/ball of insulin, not just wet fur. Thinking a little was better than none at that bg level, I gave way less than what I saw. Obviously, I have a lot to learn. I have been reading forums trying to learn and understand as much as I can, but I know I have a long way to go.

Thanks for making my list work better for other readers. I have downloaded the spread sheet and will get it transferred to that. And I now understand the + whatever numbers, which I just wasn't getting at all :D
 
I understand; the sugar dance is a process, not an event and may take a while getting smoothed out.
 
Wendy&Tiggy said:
What kind/brand of wet food are you feeding? Its a low carb one right?

Wendy

Yes, Fancy Feast classics~~as recommended. And of course my other kitty won't touch dry now, so this is getting expensive!

Still trying to figure out which they'll eat consistently. The only flavors they really love are the seafood ones. And I'm not sure why I shouldn't feed those to often~~according to the list, they are the lowest carb?
 
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