? more I increase, more BLACKS he's getting..Can someone look at my SS pls?

Ti-Mousse (GA) Pepe (GA)

Ti-Mousse (GA) Pepe (GA)

Member Since 2018
Since starting on Lantus, the only time he got PINKs was when he was 0.5 units, end of December and 2 of these were following a FUR SHOT; since then, he's increasing all the time; he's getting REDs and the more I increase to get rid of the REDs, he's BLACK and RED.... I always feed him the same low carb food, same routine and same tests and insulin schedule!

I know of the depot, he has always been at least on a 6 cycles for each dose before changing dosage.

I was thinking of quitting or decreasing insulin for a 6 cycle with monitoring all day to see if he's better! Has anyone seen this before?
 
Ti-Mousse said:
Since starting on Lantus, the only time he got PINKs was when he was 0.5 units, end of December and 2 of these were following a FUR SHOT; since then, he's increasing all the time; he's getting REDs and the more I increase to get rid of the REDs, he's BLACK and RED.... I always feed him the same low carb food, same routine and same tests and insulin schedule!

I know of the depot, he has always been at least on a 6 cycles for each dose before changing dosage.

I was thinking of quitting or decreasing insulin for a 6 cycle with monitoring all day to see if he's better! Has anyone seen this before?
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Hi Lyane... I looked at your SS. I think you (really) need some words of wisdom. I am not skilled yet, enough to make suggestions to you. I am tagging @Jill & Alex (GA), @Wendy&Neko, @Chris & China and, @Marje and Gracie- hopefully one of theses veterans are available. Hang tight... what I would recommend to you though is to put a ? in your condo title. This will definitely get you better attention.
Everything is really going to get better and... be ok :) :bighug:
 
Krystina & Nelli said:
Hi Lyane... I looked at your SS. I think you (really) need some words of wisdom. I am not skilled yet, enough to make suggestions to you. I am tagging @Jill & Alex (GA), @Wendy&Neko, @Chris & China and, @Marje and Gracie- hopefully one of theses veterans are available. Hang tight... what I would recommend to you though is to put a ? in your condo title. This will definitely get you better attention.
Everything is really going to get better and... be ok :) :bighug:
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OK, I just did put a ? in my title. Tks for helping Ti-Mousse !!
 
I would not reduce, that is a recipe for even worse numbers. Are you testing regularly for ketones? I would at least daily with the numbers he is getting now. Please note the results in the SS if you are doing ketone testing.

You started at a low dose, you test enough that you would catch any lows, and you are increasing safely as per the protocol. Therefore, you just haven’t hit that dose yet that will move him. Your spreadsheet is not unique. Maybe @Sandy and Black Kitty will pop in. Her kitty sorely needed a dental and it played havoc with his numbers. I can point to many others. Check out Sammy’s SS in this post. http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/dosing-advice-please.209095/ And check out Wally’s post and numbers too. It really is helpful to look at other spreadsheets.

There are probably a couple reasons you are seeing black. First is that phenomenon I mentioned called New Dose Wonkiness or NDW. Second, it’s possible he is hitting some lower pinks in the wee hours overnight. Many cats go lower at night. He is not used to those numbers and bouncing. As much as we don’t like bouncing, it means the insulin is working and getting him into lower numbers than he is used to. Neko’s SS started seeing more blacks when blues finally showed up.

Google “dental vet” and name of your city. Your vet will need to give you a referral and probably knows the name of the closest dental vet. If you have a vet school nearby, they usually have dental specialists.
 
When I saw Kristina tag you,I thought poor Wendy thinking "not her again..." I'm going for dental definitely, I just have to see my vet this week and see if she's OK to do it or not, otherwise I'll find a dentist. My problem was in the meantime; it worries me to see so much high numbers compared to 2 weeks ago on lower insulin. That's why I was thinking of lowering insulin until the dental work is done!
 
Where in Canada are you located? If you're on the west coast, I know the vet I work for understands that bad teeth = hard to control diabetes.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
Are you testing regularly for ketones?
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I was not testing until 2 days ago; It was the 1st time doing that; coming back from the drugstore with Ketostix.. He's going to the litter box, I'm rushing with the stix, hoping to catch what's needed; probably not well aligned, a few drops - between None and a Few Trace! I'll have this in his schedule from now on.. Thanks for the links to other's spreadsheets.
Crista & Ming said:
Where in Canada are you located? If you're on the west coast, I know the vet I work for understands that bad teeth = hard to control diabetes.
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Lucky you !! Unfortunately, I'm in Quebec... Not all vets understand that ! That's what I'm looking for !
 
Ti-Mousse said:
Lucky you !! Unfortunately, I'm in Quebec... Not all vets understand that ! That's what I'm looking for !
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Aw darn :( I guess it's time to go vet shopping :joyful:

I really do hope once Ti-Mousse has his dental issues addressed, that his numbers become much easier to control. There might not be a good explanation. I've asked often enough on the forum why Ming does what he does and sometimes I just get the answer: because he's a cat? :woot: And that they need what they need. With time, once you gather more and more data, some patterns may emerge. I've been at this Lantus thing since October and I'm STILL figuring out Ming's patterns.
 
What a cutie pie Ti-Mouse is!

I'm adding my voice to the "dont reduce" chorus.
With BG consistently so high, food is not properly metabolized and energy required is not delivered to the cells of his body.
Infection stresses the system further. At some point, the body starts breaking down its own protein and fat in an attempt to get the energy it needs. The byproduct, ketones, can quickly develop into a life threatening situation.

Getting enough insulin is critical as is monitoring for ketones.

My Black Kitty is an example of how ketones can go from negative to large in 24 hours.
He is also a dramatic example of the effect inflammation from bad teeth and gums can have on BG.

October 2008 - mouth examined while under anesthesia to remove an unrelated lump. Rotted tooth fragment removed. Steep drop in dose followed. Veterinary dental specialist recommended as his mouth was beyond what the vet was comfortable handling.
December 2008 - 8 or so extractions - followed by a period of free fall down the dosing ladder.
April 2009 - numbers have crept back up and back up in dose we go
May 2009 - second dental surgery with the specialist.
October 2009 - off the juice, after 21 months. He remained in remission for 6.5 years, which was the rest of his life.


BK insulin graph (640x359).jpg

Hang in there, and hang in here. :cool:
 
This Dr. is certified by the American Veterinary Dental College (AVDC).
https://daubigny.ca/services/dentisterie/
I found him in the link I sent you above- the AVDC has great info on Veterinary Dental.
Unlike general Vets, these docs are trained in Veterinary Dental exclusively- this is all they do :bighug:.
Yes, they are a bit more expensive but you are faced with a double whammy... good dental health is very important almost just as much so as a well regulated diabetic kitty.
 
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Sandy and Black Kitty said:
Veterinary dental specialist recommended as his mouth was beyond what the vet was comfortable handling.
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Have you by chance :facepalm: asked your Vet if she could recommend a Dental vet specialist?
Nelli is in her late (late) teens, insulin dependent diabetic, diagnosed hypertrophic cardiomyopathy, history of congestive heart failure - (steroid-induced) and, presumptive feline asthma.
She was put under anesthesia for dental by specialist on May 3, 2018- everything went very well :bighug:
Good luck... as @Sandy and Black Kitty said hang in there, and hang in here :cool:
 
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Sandy and Black Kitty said:
What a cutie pie Ti-Mouse is!

I'm adding my voice to the "dont reduce" chorus.
With BG consistently so high, food is not properly metabolized and energy required is not delivered to the cells of his body.
Infection stresses the system further. At some point, the body starts breaking down its own protein and fat in an attempt to get the energy it needs. The byproduct, ketones, can quickly develop into a life threatening situation.

Getting enough insulin is critical as is monitoring for ketones.

My Black Kitty is an example of how ketones can go from negative to large in 24 hours.
He is also a dramatic example of the effect inflammation from bad teeth and gums can have on BG.

October 2008 - mouth examined while under anesthesia to remove an unrelated lump. Rotted tooth fragment removed. Steep drop in dose followed. Veterinary dental specialist recommended as his mouth was beyond what the vet was comfortable handling.
December 2008 - 8 or so extractions - followed by a period of free fall down the dosing ladder.
April 2009 - numbers have crept back up and back up in dose we go
May 2009 - second dental surgery with the specialist.
October 2009 - off the juice, after 21 months. He remained in remission for 6.5 years, which was the rest of his life.


View attachment 41669

Hang in there, and hang in here. :cool:
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I think I'll print Black Kitty's attachment and stick it on the fridge to keep me on track.. :) I was in doubt but not anymore! I won't decrease insulin; I'll keep on testing and definetely go for dental asap; vet is supposed to be back from Holidays this week; if she's not comfortable I'll find a dentist. Thanks for your encouragement, what a good start to the day !!! I don't know what I would do without this great place and all those wonderful people always ready to help and share their experience and knowledge! :bighug:
 
Krystina & Nelli said:
Have you by chance :facepalm: asked your Vet if she could recommend a Dental vet specialist?
Nelli is in her late (late) teens, insulin dependent diabetic, diagnosed hypertrophic cardiomyopathy, history of congestive heart failure - (steroid-induced) and, presumptive feline asthma.
She was put under anesthesia for dental by specialist on May 3, 2018- everything went very well :bighug:
Good luck... as @Sandy and Black Kitty said hang in there, and hang in here :cool:
Click to expand...
Good link for the dentists thank you; if my vet doesn't have one to recommend, I'll shop in your list.:) As I just said to Sandy: I don't know what I would do without this great place and all those wonderful people always ready to help and share their experience and knowledge! :bighug:
 
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