Mittens 9-28-13 AMPS=50

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Lyndsey & Mittens

Lyndsey & Mittens

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Mittens AMPS=50 so no shot

Not sure what's going on-the same thing that happened on the night of the 20th occurred again.
confused_cat
 
Re: Mittens 9-30-13 AMPS=50

You might test again just to be sure the number is accurate. As the discussion yesterday indicates, there are differing approaches to dosing with PZI. Unfortunately there is no protocol that works with every cat. I agree inverse curves are rare but I like to see a curve done to test out the theory. I am interested that Mittens seems to be high around +8 and then flattens out or goes down for the rest of the cycle.

I love Carl and respect his opinions but I am more conservative than he is. I do like to see doses held a few cycles when a increase is made to see if the cat settles into the new dose. I know that technically shouldn't happen as PZI should last only 12 hours, but it does seem to, in some cats. And I interpret a very low amps as too much insulin.

So today. He is bound to bounce.. I am not sure what dose to try (assuming he is in a safe range to shoot at pmps) but I think I'd try a fat one unit - just a smidgen more than one, but not back up to 1.25

I know this is frustrating because cats react in such different ways with PZI. The good news is to remember that Mittens is on a low dose of insulin and he does respond!
 
Re: Mittens 9-30-13 AMPS=50

I double checked and the 50 I got earlier was valid, 4 hours later I'm now getting 66. I did a curve yesterday, and I did see a downward trend from +8 to +12, but it was only by a few points...

I'm wondering if (and I don't know as much as you guys do, so tell me if this doesn't make sense)-but looking back at his data, I'm seeing where Mittens will drop down into the 200s in the first couple of hours & then start going up from there (excluding the days where his AMPS was 47 & 50). Is it possible that his liver is "freaking out" when he gets into the yellow range triggering a release of glucagon to make his numbers go up? And the 2 nights where I got the 47/50 AMPS perhaps his glucagon stores had run out (or for whatever reason the liver didn't freak out)-causing the really low numbers?
 
Re: Mittens 9-30-13 AMPS=50

Possibly. We usually see the pancreas starting to wake up when they start generally going down overall, and then preshots are lower. (you can see how this has worked for other cats by checking out the spreadsheets in the remission thread.) The only consistent thing I "think" I see in Mitten's ss is that he reacts differently to a dose a few cycles after it has been raised.

Your guess is as good as ours. Remember we are just using our personal experiences and remembering the collective experiences other members have had. I think that PZI cats tend to react in a number of different ways to the insulin. That makes this whole dance different in different cats, which is especially complicated. I have seen cats react to tiny changes in doses (check out bookworm's ss) and other cats who only react to .25 or higher changes. I have seen cats who seem to need a few cycles on a dose before downward changes are seen and I have seen cats who react immediately. Sliding scales (changing the dose every preshot) seems to work well for some cats and not so well for others. I think the most consistent thing here is that Every Cat is Different. :mrgreen:
 
Re: Mittens 9-30-13 AMPS=50

What an absolutely beautiful number to wake up to!
Why did it happen? Seriously, who cares? And four hours later, a 66? That means no immediate bounce from the 50.

Is it possible that his liver is "freaking out" when he gets into the yellow range triggering a release of glucagon to make his numbers go up?
Click to expand...

Anything is possible...but I don't think a drop to yellows is likely to cause a fast bounce. Dropping really low can cause a bounce. And dropping really fast can cause a bounce. In the cycles where he went yellow, it doesn't look like he dropped far, or fast. Unless there is a low number in between the shot and the yellow that you didn't see. His spreadsheet does not show evidence that he is prone to dropping far or fast in the first 3-4 hours after a shot to me.
 
Re: Mittens 9-30-13 AMPS=50

Annnddd...there's the bounce-PMPS=418.

Administered fat 1.0 unit. Mittens just seems so "all over the place"-its hard to decide what will be a safe, yet effective dose...

That's a good point Carl-the data doesn't show a fast or far drop to yellows, so it's unlikely that it is a bounce.

I'm wondering if he might be more consistent on Levemir or Lantus-think I might ask the vet about it. Is there a certian timeframe I should wait before trying a new insulin?
 
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