dedodude49
Member
ok lets see if this works.....morning numbers for pzi
miss kitty
- Thread starter dedodude49
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Sue and Oliver (GA)
Very Active Member
Yep. It worked. Nice yellow number this am. I think you said you could get some midcycle numbers today? That would help us see where that dose is taking her.
Welcome to the PZI Forum.
What dose did Miss Kitty get this morning? I don't see it on the spreadsheet.
I see you are not dosing every 12 hours. The most extreme variances in timing I see in the recent past are shots 5.5 hours apart and shots 17 hours apart, and those variations don't seem to relate to the pre-shot numbers, if there are pre-shots tests taken. This morning's shot appears to be 9 hours after last night's shot.
Is there anyway to work with your schedule to get closer to shots every 12 hours? I know that you likely can not get to every 12 hours on the button, and ProZinc can be very forgiving that way because the dose can be scaled for pre-shot values, but getting closer to shots every 12 hours is going to be better for Miss Kitty and for you.
Also, I think you need to be more methodical about what squares on the spreadsheet you put numbers in and how you describe what's happening in your narrative. For example, on your spreadsheet, on February 20, the SS shows that Miss Kitty was 268 at 11 hours after the shot for her evening cycle. However, in your written health post, on February 23, you wrote "the 268 reading was 12 hours after the am shot." Yes, you did give a shot at 1:40am, but we still consider that pm (nighttime) cycle.
Also, if you look at the other postings on this forum, most head the subject of their posts using the convention used by other forums on this Board. That convention is the date, the cat's name, and the pre-shot value.
For example, others could more easily follow what you are saying if your subject line said: "2/25 Miss Kitty AMPS 229". Then as the day progresses, you can edit the subject line in the first post on today's thread. For example, say you do a test at +5 and she is 178, you would edit the subject line to read: "2/25 Miss Kitty AMPS 229, +5 178". That would not force multiple people to open Miss Kitty spreadsheet multiple times during the day to see whether you are doing mid-cycle tests and what those results are.
Have a good day. ~Venita
I hope you find these comments helpful.
What dose did Miss Kitty get this morning? I don't see it on the spreadsheet.
I see you are not dosing every 12 hours. The most extreme variances in timing I see in the recent past are shots 5.5 hours apart and shots 17 hours apart, and those variations don't seem to relate to the pre-shot numbers, if there are pre-shots tests taken. This morning's shot appears to be 9 hours after last night's shot.
Is there anyway to work with your schedule to get closer to shots every 12 hours? I know that you likely can not get to every 12 hours on the button, and ProZinc can be very forgiving that way because the dose can be scaled for pre-shot values, but getting closer to shots every 12 hours is going to be better for Miss Kitty and for you.
Also, I think you need to be more methodical about what squares on the spreadsheet you put numbers in and how you describe what's happening in your narrative. For example, on your spreadsheet, on February 20, the SS shows that Miss Kitty was 268 at 11 hours after the shot for her evening cycle. However, in your written health post, on February 23, you wrote "the 268 reading was 12 hours after the am shot." Yes, you did give a shot at 1:40am, but we still consider that pm (nighttime) cycle.
Also, if you look at the other postings on this forum, most head the subject of their posts using the convention used by other forums on this Board. That convention is the date, the cat's name, and the pre-shot value.
For example, others could more easily follow what you are saying if your subject line said: "2/25 Miss Kitty AMPS 229". Then as the day progresses, you can edit the subject line in the first post on today's thread. For example, say you do a test at +5 and she is 178, you would edit the subject line to read: "2/25 Miss Kitty AMPS 229, +5 178". That would not force multiple people to open Miss Kitty spreadsheet multiple times during the day to see whether you are doing mid-cycle tests and what those results are.
Have a good day. ~Venita
I hope you find these comments helpful.
nckitties3
Very Active Member
Hang in there, it's not as hard as it seems.
Nice to see a number with 'sunshine', that's always better than the 'pink tutu'. :thumbup
Nice to see a number with 'sunshine', that's always better than the 'pink tutu'. :thumbup
Sue and Oliver (GA)
Very Active Member
mid cycle number for miss kitty....six hrs after am shot......5:56pm.........90
(Denise, you put this on Tommy's thread
)
Very nice midcycle number. It does make me wonder whether she was lower before or will be after, but as long as she stays above 50, she will be in safe numbers. So for now, it looks like your two units is a good dose for the 200s. If you get a number under 200, though, I would lower it by a bit.
I am concerned that you do seem to shoot earlier than 12 hours sometimes and later than that sometimes. You can do that with ProZinc, but you want to take that in consideration with the numbers and the doses. If, for example, you got a 200 at +10 and shot two units, she might have still be headed down and had a lower number if if you had waited till +12. Then there would be overlap and the danger of too much insulin. Can you not shoot every 12 hours?
(Denise, you put this on Tommy's thread
)Very nice midcycle number. It does make me wonder whether she was lower before or will be after, but as long as she stays above 50, she will be in safe numbers. So for now, it looks like your two units is a good dose for the 200s. If you get a number under 200, though, I would lower it by a bit.
I am concerned that you do seem to shoot earlier than 12 hours sometimes and later than that sometimes. You can do that with ProZinc, but you want to take that in consideration with the numbers and the doses. If, for example, you got a 200 at +10 and shot two units, she might have still be headed down and had a lower number if if you had waited till +12. Then there would be overlap and the danger of too much insulin. Can you not shoot every 12 hours?
dedodude49
Member
will try to do the every 12 hrs now......her reading now is 254...gna shoot with 2 units
Sue and Oliver (GA)
Very Active Member
Looks like you got a low number last night and lowered the dose this am. Good plan. I am still confused about your shot times; they do not look like 12 hours between shots.
nckitties3
Very Active Member
I realize with a job and just life in general it can be hard to stick to a strict schedule. Let us know what hours you work and stuff and maybe we can help put a schedule together that is a little closer to 12/12 like it should be.
Most people can shoot before they go to work, then in the evening and get a test before bed. But if your schedule changes all the time, it does make it harder. The worst offender of changing schedules is retail! Ask me, I did it for the last 12 years.
Hopefully we can help you get Miss Kitty straightened out and on a good schedule for both of you.
How about starting a new thread with '3/2 Missy Kitty AMPS ###.....' That way we can keep an eye on her and whenever you get another test, you just add it to the headline as +#/### i.e. +6/145. It's a format we use to keep an eye in each others kitties. That way we know at a glance how they are doing.
And get a pic of Miss Kitty! We want to see! We're nosey like that! :lol:
Most people can shoot before they go to work, then in the evening and get a test before bed. But if your schedule changes all the time, it does make it harder. The worst offender of changing schedules is retail! Ask me, I did it for the last 12 years.
Hopefully we can help you get Miss Kitty straightened out and on a good schedule for both of you.
How about starting a new thread with '3/2 Missy Kitty AMPS ###.....' That way we can keep an eye on her and whenever you get another test, you just add it to the headline as +#/### i.e. +6/145. It's a format we use to keep an eye in each others kitties.
That way we know at a glance how they are doing.And get a pic of Miss Kitty! We want to see! We're nosey like that! :lol:
dedodude49
Member
only 69 tonight....should i give karo syrup?
Jill & Alex (GA)
Very Active Member
how many hours has it been since you gave the last shot?dedodude49 said:
dedodude49
Member
ugh
Jill & Alex (GA)
Very Active Member
Denise, was the last shot at 3:53 pm like it says on your spreadsheet?
What time is it now?
What dose did you give her?
Please answer my questions so I can try to help you.
What time is it now?
What dose did you give her?
Please answer my questions so I can try to help you.
BJM
Very Active Member
Denise
I think you missed how we use the spreadsheet of numbers. Because you're doing it differently, we don't understand it.
Understanding the spreadsheet/grid:
Each day is 1 row. Each column stores different data for the day.
From left to right, you enter
the Date in the first column
the AMPS (morning pre-shot test) in the 2nd column
the Units given (turquoise column)
Then, there are 11 columns labeled +1 through +11
If you test at +5 (5 hours after the shot), you enter the test number in the +5 column
If you test at +7 (7 hours after the shot), you enter the test number in the +5 column
and so on.
Halfway across the page is the column for PMPS (evening pre-shot)
To the right is another turquoise column for Units given at the evening shot.
There is second set of columns labeled +1 through +11
If you snag a before bed test at +3, you enter the test number in the +3 column.
We separate day and night numbers like that because many cats go lower at night.
I think you missed how we use the spreadsheet of numbers. Because you're doing it differently, we don't understand it.
Understanding the spreadsheet/grid:
Each day is 1 row. Each column stores different data for the day.
From left to right, you enter
the Date in the first column
the AMPS (morning pre-shot test) in the 2nd column
the Units given (turquoise column)
Then, there are 11 columns labeled +1 through +11
If you test at +5 (5 hours after the shot), you enter the test number in the +5 column
If you test at +7 (7 hours after the shot), you enter the test number in the +5 column
and so on.
Halfway across the page is the column for PMPS (evening pre-shot)
To the right is another turquoise column for Units given at the evening shot.
There is second set of columns labeled +1 through +11
If you snag a before bed test at +3, you enter the test number in the +3 column.
We separate day and night numbers like that because many cats go lower at night.
Jill & Alex (GA)
Very Active Member
Denise, it's been a little over a half hour since you posted the 69.
Why don't you test her now so we can see if her numbers are still going down or are on their way up.
Please post the number after you test Miss Kitty.
Thank you! :mrgreen:
Why don't you test her now so we can see if her numbers are still going down or are on their way up.
Please post the number after you test Miss Kitty.
Thank you! :mrgreen:
Jill & Alex (GA)
Very Active Member
Denise, are you still awake? 
Jill & Alex (GA)
Very Active Member
I have an early day tomorrow so I have to get to bed and don't know if you're planning on coming back to post. Here are some suggestions if Miss kitty's numbers drop below 50:
Hypoglycemia or low blood sugar is a dangerous condition that must be treated immediately. Also known as insulin shock or insulin reaction, hypoglycemia occurs when there is too much insulin in the body potentially leading to neurological damage and/or death.
Knowing how to respond to a hypoglycemic event whether or not symptoms are present can save the life of your diabetic cat. The following general guidelines are intended for those who home test the blood glucose levels in their cats. These guidelines are not intended to replace the advice given by your Veterinarian. It is very important that you discuss any and all treatment options with your cat’s physician BEFORE an event has occurred.
SYMPTOMS
Some cats may have NO symptoms whatsoever, but here are the most common ones:
MILD HYPOGLYCEMIA
Sudden ravenous hunger
Shivering
Weak or lethargic
MODERATE HYPOGLYCEMIA
Disorientation
Trouble with vision... bumps into furniture
Poor coordination, such as staggering, walking in circles or acting drunk
Changes in head or neck movements
Restlessness
Urgent meowing
Behavioral changes, such as aggressiveness
SEVERE HYPOGLYCEMIA
Convulsions or seizures
Unconsciousness
TREATMENT
During treatment for hypoglycemia, try to test every 15 minutes until you see the bgs begin to rise. Then continue to test until you are satisfied that the cat is out of danger.
VERY LOW NUMBERS – WITHOUT SYMPTOMS
Retest glucose using a large blood sample to make certain you have enough blood, and if you still get a very low number (under 40 mg/dL or 1.9 – 2.2 mmol/L) administer a tablespoon of corn syrup, liquid glucose, pancake syrup or honey, or INSTA-GLUCOSE and follow with food until the blood glucose numbers rise to acceptable levels. The syrup can be mixed with wet food or poured over dry if the cat will eat the mixture. If using liquid glucose, dilute with water for a thinner consistency.
LOW NUMBERS – WITHOUT SYMPTOMS
Retest glucose using a large blood sample to make certain you have enough blood, and if you still get a low number (40 – 60mg/dL or 2.2 – 3.3mmol/L) give food or treats until the blood glucose numbers rise to an acceptable level. If the cat refuses to eat even his/her favorite foods, you can syringe feed or administer a small amount of syrup.
LOW NUMBERS – MILD SYMPTOMS
Try feeding first or give a little syrup or honey followed by food until the blood glucose numbers rise to an acceptable level and the symptoms disappear. The syrup can be mixed with wet food or poured over dry if the cat will eat the mixture. If the cat will not eat, syringe feed. If your cat will eat dry, feed this first as the high carbs will help to increase his/her bgs quickly. You can then follow with his/her favorite canned food. Keep in mind that giving syrup (Karo, etc.) or honey is not enough because the effects wear off quickly. You need to follow with food.
IF IN ANY DOUBT, TELEPHONE YOUR VETERINARIAN.
LOW NUMBERS – MODERATE SYMPTOMS
Give a tablespoon of syrup, a teaspoon of liquid glucose, a tablespoon of honey or a tablespoon of sugar syrup followed by food and continue doing so until you see the blood glucose numbers rise to an acceptable level and all symptoms disappear. The syrup, honey, or glucose can be rubbed against the inside of the cat’s cheeks or on the gums for quick absorption. You can also mix the syrup with wet food or pour over dry if the cat will eat it. Continue to give syrup and food as needed and observe your cat for signs of recurring hypoglycemia. Keep in mind that giving syrup (Karo, etc.) or honey is not enough because the effects wear off quickly. You need to follow with food.
IF IN ANY DOUBT, TELEPHONE YOUR VETERINARIAN.
LOW NUMBERS – SEVERE SYMPTOMS
Rub syrup, honey, or glucose on the gums and cheeks if your cat will allow it. Another option for administering syrup, diluted liquid glucose, honey or sugar syrup to a cat who is seizuring is to fill a needleless syringe with the mixture and insert via the rectum.
NEVER TRY TO SQUIRT SYRUP, HONEY, OR GLUCOSE TO A CAT WHO IS SEIZURING AS THE CAT COULD CHOKE ON IT! RUSH TO EMERGENCY.
AGAIN! ANYTIME YOU CAT IS SEIZURING OR LIMP, RUB KARO, GLUCOSE OR HONEY ONLY ON GUMS OR ADMINISTER RECTALLY AND GET TO EMERGENCY OR YOUR NEAREST CLINIC IMMEDIATELY!!!
Remember that syrup or any other sugared syrup/preparation will spike the blood glucose ONLY for a short period of time, so food is really important with mild and moderate symptoms. Dry food (high carbohydrates) will keep the blood glucose numbers elevated longer, so it’s a better food to give during a hypoglycemic episode.
After a hypoglycemic episode cats may be more sensitive to insulin, so a reduction in dosage is generally required, especially considering too much insulin – whether due to dosage, inadequate food intake, or the cat’s changing insulin requirements – caused the hypoglycemic event in the first place. With moderate to severe episodes, your Vet may have you skip the next injection altogether.
IT IS VERY IMPORTANT THAT YOU DISCUSS YOUR CAT’S HYPOGLYCEMIC EVENT WITH YOUR VET, SO TOGETHER YOU CAN DECIDE UPON THE NEXT COURSE OF ACTION.
Always keep in mind that with low blood glucose and no symptoms, the BG you get is not as important as where it is headed. In other words, if you get a BG of 100 mg/dL or 5.6 mmol/L or less and there are still several hours or more before the insulin peaks, your need to watch your cat (and the numbers) carefully and take appropriate steps. With very low numbers and NO SYMPTOMS, a cat can be fine one moment and seizuring the next.
BE PREPARED! KNOW THE SYMPTOMS AND KNOW THE TREATMENT!
Copyright © 1998-2010
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=1122
If no one is around and you need help you can also post on the Health Forum: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewforum.php?f=28
Goodnight!
Hypoglycemia or low blood sugar is a dangerous condition that must be treated immediately. Also known as insulin shock or insulin reaction, hypoglycemia occurs when there is too much insulin in the body potentially leading to neurological damage and/or death.
Knowing how to respond to a hypoglycemic event whether or not symptoms are present can save the life of your diabetic cat. The following general guidelines are intended for those who home test the blood glucose levels in their cats. These guidelines are not intended to replace the advice given by your Veterinarian. It is very important that you discuss any and all treatment options with your cat’s physician BEFORE an event has occurred.
SYMPTOMS
Some cats may have NO symptoms whatsoever, but here are the most common ones:
MILD HYPOGLYCEMIA
Sudden ravenous hunger
Shivering
Weak or lethargic
MODERATE HYPOGLYCEMIA
Disorientation
Trouble with vision... bumps into furniture
Poor coordination, such as staggering, walking in circles or acting drunk
Changes in head or neck movements
Restlessness
Urgent meowing
Behavioral changes, such as aggressiveness
SEVERE HYPOGLYCEMIA
Convulsions or seizures
Unconsciousness
TREATMENT
During treatment for hypoglycemia, try to test every 15 minutes until you see the bgs begin to rise. Then continue to test until you are satisfied that the cat is out of danger.
VERY LOW NUMBERS – WITHOUT SYMPTOMS
Retest glucose using a large blood sample to make certain you have enough blood, and if you still get a very low number (under 40 mg/dL or 1.9 – 2.2 mmol/L) administer a tablespoon of corn syrup, liquid glucose, pancake syrup or honey, or INSTA-GLUCOSE and follow with food until the blood glucose numbers rise to acceptable levels. The syrup can be mixed with wet food or poured over dry if the cat will eat the mixture. If using liquid glucose, dilute with water for a thinner consistency.
LOW NUMBERS – WITHOUT SYMPTOMS
Retest glucose using a large blood sample to make certain you have enough blood, and if you still get a low number (40 – 60mg/dL or 2.2 – 3.3mmol/L) give food or treats until the blood glucose numbers rise to an acceptable level. If the cat refuses to eat even his/her favorite foods, you can syringe feed or administer a small amount of syrup.
LOW NUMBERS – MILD SYMPTOMS
Try feeding first or give a little syrup or honey followed by food until the blood glucose numbers rise to an acceptable level and the symptoms disappear. The syrup can be mixed with wet food or poured over dry if the cat will eat the mixture. If the cat will not eat, syringe feed. If your cat will eat dry, feed this first as the high carbs will help to increase his/her bgs quickly. You can then follow with his/her favorite canned food. Keep in mind that giving syrup (Karo, etc.) or honey is not enough because the effects wear off quickly. You need to follow with food.
IF IN ANY DOUBT, TELEPHONE YOUR VETERINARIAN.
LOW NUMBERS – MODERATE SYMPTOMS
Give a tablespoon of syrup, a teaspoon of liquid glucose, a tablespoon of honey or a tablespoon of sugar syrup followed by food and continue doing so until you see the blood glucose numbers rise to an acceptable level and all symptoms disappear. The syrup, honey, or glucose can be rubbed against the inside of the cat’s cheeks or on the gums for quick absorption. You can also mix the syrup with wet food or pour over dry if the cat will eat it. Continue to give syrup and food as needed and observe your cat for signs of recurring hypoglycemia. Keep in mind that giving syrup (Karo, etc.) or honey is not enough because the effects wear off quickly. You need to follow with food.
IF IN ANY DOUBT, TELEPHONE YOUR VETERINARIAN.
LOW NUMBERS – SEVERE SYMPTOMS
Rub syrup, honey, or glucose on the gums and cheeks if your cat will allow it. Another option for administering syrup, diluted liquid glucose, honey or sugar syrup to a cat who is seizuring is to fill a needleless syringe with the mixture and insert via the rectum.
NEVER TRY TO SQUIRT SYRUP, HONEY, OR GLUCOSE TO A CAT WHO IS SEIZURING AS THE CAT COULD CHOKE ON IT! RUSH TO EMERGENCY.
AGAIN! ANYTIME YOU CAT IS SEIZURING OR LIMP, RUB KARO, GLUCOSE OR HONEY ONLY ON GUMS OR ADMINISTER RECTALLY AND GET TO EMERGENCY OR YOUR NEAREST CLINIC IMMEDIATELY!!!
Remember that syrup or any other sugared syrup/preparation will spike the blood glucose ONLY for a short period of time, so food is really important with mild and moderate symptoms. Dry food (high carbohydrates) will keep the blood glucose numbers elevated longer, so it’s a better food to give during a hypoglycemic episode.
After a hypoglycemic episode cats may be more sensitive to insulin, so a reduction in dosage is generally required, especially considering too much insulin – whether due to dosage, inadequate food intake, or the cat’s changing insulin requirements – caused the hypoglycemic event in the first place. With moderate to severe episodes, your Vet may have you skip the next injection altogether.
IT IS VERY IMPORTANT THAT YOU DISCUSS YOUR CAT’S HYPOGLYCEMIC EVENT WITH YOUR VET, SO TOGETHER YOU CAN DECIDE UPON THE NEXT COURSE OF ACTION.
Always keep in mind that with low blood glucose and no symptoms, the BG you get is not as important as where it is headed. In other words, if you get a BG of 100 mg/dL or 5.6 mmol/L or less and there are still several hours or more before the insulin peaks, your need to watch your cat (and the numbers) carefully and take appropriate steps. With very low numbers and NO SYMPTOMS, a cat can be fine one moment and seizuring the next.
BE PREPARED! KNOW THE SYMPTOMS AND KNOW THE TREATMENT!
Copyright © 1998-2010
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=1122
If no one is around and you need help you can also post on the Health Forum: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewforum.php?f=28
Goodnight!
BJM
Very Active Member
A 69 can be a great number ... if it is taken around the nadir. As a pre-shot for ProZinc (or other non-depot insulins), it is a "no shot" number. For a depot insulin, if you've been collecting lots of mid-cycle data, and have experience shooting low to stay low, it actually may be shootable.
Comparing a human glucometer to a pet-specific glucometer is like reading temperature in Celsius vs Fahrenheit. Both are correct. You just need to know the reference ranges to interpret what the numbers mean.
[Glucose reference ranges are unsubstantiated and have been removed by Moderator]
How to use the glucose reference values chart:
When you get a test, look for the number on the chart that either equals, or contains, the test value you have. Read the information. As needed, make a decision and act.
Ex. You are a new insulin user and you test your cat before giving insulin. The test is 300. It probably is safe to give insulin.
Ex. You are an established user of Lantus, following the Tight Regulation protocol. You've tested around +5 to +7 to spot the nadir. It is 200 mg/dL. You probably need to increase the dose, following the instructions for the protocol.
Ex. Your cat is acting funny. The eyes are a bit dilated. You are concerned and test the glucose. The number is 35 mg/dL. ACK! The cat may be in a hypoglycemic state. You quickly follow the HYPO protocol linked in the glucose reference values chart. (which we really, really, suggest you print out and post on your refrigerator.)
Comparing a human glucometer to a pet-specific glucometer is like reading temperature in Celsius vs Fahrenheit. Both are correct. You just need to know the reference ranges to interpret what the numbers mean.
[Glucose reference ranges are unsubstantiated and have been removed by Moderator]
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
How to use the glucose reference values chart:
When you get a test, look for the number on the chart that either equals, or contains, the test value you have. Read the information. As needed, make a decision and act.
Ex. You are a new insulin user and you test your cat before giving insulin. The test is 300. It probably is safe to give insulin.
Ex. You are an established user of Lantus, following the Tight Regulation protocol. You've tested around +5 to +7 to spot the nadir. It is 200 mg/dL. You probably need to increase the dose, following the instructions for the protocol.
Ex. Your cat is acting funny. The eyes are a bit dilated. You are concerned and test the glucose. The number is 35 mg/dL. ACK! The cat may be in a hypoglycemic state. You quickly follow the HYPO protocol linked in the glucose reference values chart. (which we really, really, suggest you print out and post on your refrigerator.)
dedodude49
Member
ive been working from 6p-11p, I test her when I get home, then im generally up til 3am, then test her again when I get up. appreciate all the help! will get picture as well!
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