Mishka Update -- NS for four days (??)

[Debbie & Mishka]

Well, of course, I'm worried, but Mishka is feeling soooo very much better. Eating about 7.5 oz of FF a day, which is down from his usual 9 oz. (which is way down from his 12 oz. pre-diagnosis). His PS numbers have all been below 150, except one day when mom totally was stressed out and he fought the ear prick. He's grooming himself so well, purring, and even found a mouse (not a real one ) under the dresser. For almost 17 y/o, he's more active than he has been since his diagnosis. Still on Zeniquin for the URI, but tolerating it well. I tested +4 last night and BG was 134, down from 142. Tonight, no test, because I had to prick his ear 4x and still no blood. I think I'm getting more and more nervous and not sure why. Will try to test for ketones tonight if I can catch him in his litter box

So -- questions of course:
1) thinking of lowering his NS # this weekend when I can monitor. Maybe if 150 or so, give 0.25? or an estimated 0.1?
2) Are some cats "normal" BG higher?
3) Some sites say "normal" BG is up to 120 and others say 170?

All in all, he seems to feel so much better. Not isolating in his favorite box, laying all stretched out when he sleeps and giving mom TONS of kitty purrs. Course there is the issue with the CKD, but I don't want to switch foods yet until I'm sure his appetite has returned.

So stressed, as always. Thanks for input

 

[Kris & Teasel]

This is hard to figure out because his numbers aren't a lot different whether he gets insulin or not. I think connoisseurs of true remission would say you should see at most very low blue numbers without insulin and high green should be the norm. Let's see what @Djamila says because she has more experience shooting ProZinc on a low PS than I do.

 

[Debbie & Mishka]

This is hard to figure out because his numbers aren't a lot different whether he gets insulin or not. I think connoisseurs of true remission would say you should see at most very low blue numbers without insulin and high green should be the norm. Let's see what @Djamila says because she has more experience shooting ProZinc on a low PS than I do.

Thanks Kris -- Yes, I don't even want to say the word "remission" yet. But I haven't been giving any shot when 150 or below because (1) not home to monitor; and (2) not sure if he will really eat a full meal and (3) I don't have enough data to really predict how low he may drop.

 

[Kris & Teasel]

Thanks Kris -- Yes, I don't even want to say the word "remission" yet. But I haven't been giving any shot when 150 or below because (1) not home to monitor; and (2) not sure if he will really eat a full meal and (3) I don't have enough data to really predict how low he may drop.

Always best to be cautious if you can't hover.

 

[Djamila]

Part of the difference in numbers /ranges you see is because of the meter. We say 50-120 on a human meter (with most numbers in the greens). 68-150 on an AT2. In general the popular belief around here is that if the kitty is holding in lower numbers they have a better chance of a lasting remission, but I read the article that idea is based on and don't really agree with that conclusion. I think a better indicator would be the BG following a meal and if the kitty food spikes and how long it takes to get back to normal. But anyway, nerdy research disagreements aside.......

I agree with your idea to lower the NS number and monitor through the weekend, as long as you can be vigilant and plan to get a fair number of tests in as shooting on lower numbers carries some risk. In some cats (Sam, Pita, and maybe Mishka - and I've seen it on older spreadsheets), Prozinc can be dosed similar to Lantus in that you can shoot small doses on lower numbers and get a flat, low curve. In other cats if you dose on low numbers they dive. So it is really cat specific who this works for and who it doesn't. It would be nice to see Mishka getting some slightly lower numbers before withdrawing insulin completely.

However, keep in mind that the URI may be inflating his numbers a bit, so as that clears, you might see those lower numbers emerge all on their own. If you're up for the monitoring and possibly intervening with snacks if he does start to go lower, I'd rather give him a little insuin support until that happens to let his pancreas rest a little until he's at full health.

I feel like this response is really rambling and rather inarticulate tonight, so please let me know if I've left you totally confused

 

[Debbie & Mishka]

Part of the difference in numbers /ranges you see is because of the meter. We say 50-120 on a human meter (with most numbers in the greens). 68-150 on an AT2. In general the popular belief around here is that if the kitty is holding in lower numbers they have a better chance of a lasting remission, but I read the article that idea is based on and don't really agree with that conclusion. I think a better indicator would be the BG following a meal and if the kitty food spikes and how long it takes to get back to normal. But anyway, nerdy research disagreements aside.......

I agree with your idea to lower the NS number and monitor through the weekend, as long as you can be vigilant and plan to get a fair number of tests in as shooting on lower numbers carries some risk. In some cats (Sam, Pita, and maybe Mishka - and I've seen it on older spreadsheets), Prozinc can be dosed similar to Lantus in that you can shoot small doses on lower numbers and get a flat, low curve. In other cats if you dose on low numbers they dive. So it is really cat specific who this works for and who it doesn't. It would be nice to see Mishka getting some slightly lower numbers before withdrawing insulin completely.

However, keep in mind that the URI may be inflating his numbers a bit, so as that clears, you might see those lower numbers emerge all on their own. If you're up for the monitoring and possibly intervening with snacks if he does start to go lower, I'd rather give him a little insuin support until that happens to let his pancreas rest a little until he's at full health.

I feel like this response is really rambling and rather inarticulate tonight, so please let me know if I've left you totally confused

Djamila, I think I understand what you are saying. But it's only Tuesday and I can't monitor until the weekend. Well, I guess I could do a night watch! At this point I'm not sure what to do, but I understand that the URI might be having an impact. He's had on and off URI since December. I think I'll see how he is in the morning -- praying for a lower number OR a shootable number . then get some high carb kitty treats and be prepared to monitor. I'm hesitant because I'm never sure if the BG dives that he'll eat to help BG go up. But I sure do want to give his pancreas a rest, if it is trying to get kick started again. (I think my response may be rambling too...LOL ). Thanks again!

 

[Djamila]

High carb treats are a pretty sure-fire way to get them to eat! I've heard even one or two Temptations treats can sometimes be enough to turn things around. There was ONE time that Sam went lower and I gave him some Fancy Feast with gravy. I don't think I've ever heard him purr SO loudly! It wasn't a normal eating time for him, but he was beyond excited to get gravy again after months and months of low-carb food! So all that to say - sometimes the forbidden is enough to get them to dive in.

Now when Sam goes low he just gets regular food since I've found regular low carb food is enough to steer him. I just sprinkle a little fortiflora on it to get him to eat it right then.

He looks like he's doing okay that if you need to wait until the weekend, I wouldn't worry about it. Of course if he pops up into yellow again you could give him a little bit sooner.

Thanks for being so understanding about my terrible writing tonight!

 

[Debbie & Mishka]

Well, this morning AMPS 155 and Mishka seemed to be Ravenous! Pretty confident he would eat if BG dropped. So gave a shot -- less than 0.25. Figure I can test at +2 before I go to work and if drops a lot, I'll call off sick to work . Wish employers would let you take sick leave for your pets!!!