Mikey 11/2 PMPS 382 +2 245, +3 240

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Marycatmom

Marycatmom

Member Since 2014
Good Morning!

I don't really know if I'm in the right place or all the rules for posting here, but I've been told that this is the place for some great feedback. Mikey was diagnosed less than two weeks ago. I'm still transitioning him to FF. Today he's had 3/4 of a can of FF and 1/16 cup Purina DM dry. He still hungry, but I don't know if he really needs anymore calories. He's a bit underweight, so he does need to gain a little. He's a meal fed kind of guy, and as always regulated his own weight perfectly when given two meals of unlimited dry per day. (That sounds kind of strange. Basically, I've always put down a full bowl of dry, then taken it up when he walks away.) I'm not sure if I should give him some more FF. I'd rather not give him dry. I want that stuff out of his diet entirely.

Thanks for your help!
 
Re: Mikey 11/2 AMPS 492 +2 206

Mikey has dropped to a 57 fast. Do I feed him nothing, normal FF, or high carb FF.
 
Re: Mikey 11/2 AMPS 492 +2 206

Hey Mary...

At what point in his cycle is the 57? I see he was 206 at +2


Also I would recommend going back to your original post and doing an edit and changing the icon from "none" to "911" on that original post. When you do it on the other posts, it does not show up.

Once you get some eyes on your post then you can remove it.
 
Re: Mikey 11/2 AMPS 492 +2 206

Let me add that Mikey is acting totally normal. He's happy and relaxed. It just seems like he's coming down awfully fast, and I did make another reduction in dry food/addition of canned.
 
Re: Mikey 11/2 AMPS 492 +2 206

That is a pretty big drop....

I am pretty new to this dance myself (about 6 months) and will be heading out shortly....
I would probably mix a little LC and HC to make a MC and give a teaspoon or two of that...

Just be prepared with a significant drop like that, Mikey will most likely bounce up, so don't be surprised if you see high numbers later on in this cycle and into tonight's cycle.

The 911 will help get the attention of some other members who might be able to stick around longer than I can....

I would test him again at +3.5 and see where he is....keep in mind if you feed him during this time, he may experience a food spike.....so you will most likely need to do additional testing today....
 
Re: Mikey 11/2 AMPS 492 +2 206

Marycatmom said:
Let me add that Mikey is acting totally normal. He's happy and relaxed.
Click to expand...

Yeah, normally it is just us beans who get freaked out :)

Even when Skooter got down to 32, you never would have known by the way he was acting that he was that low....
 
Re: Mikey 11/2 AMPS 492 +2 206

I would also go back and edit and include your +3 reading of 57 as well....

It will help people see what the nature of the 911 is about :)
 
Re: Mikey 11/2 AMPS 492 +2 206

OK, his +3.5 is 97, so I think we're ok without food. Where do I put that number on the spreadsheet? This cat is going to give me a heart attack!
 
Re: Mikey 11/2 AMPS 492 +2 206

Morning. ~O)
Mikey is going for some high drama today.....

You should give him the gravy from some high carb.....you don't want to feed too much because you are likely to be doing
this for a while and you don't want him not willing to eat.

If you don't have high carb, you can add some honey or other syrup to any canned food.

I'd venture a guess that he'll be doing really great once you get rid of that dry food altogether.
 
Re: Mikey 11/2 AMPS 492 +2 206

We must be cross posting...
Was he 57 or 97?

I would continue to monitor, he might already be bouncing back up.....but he could also continue to go down.
 
Re: Mikey 11/2 AMPS 492 +2 206

Hi. That's pretty big drop. But his numbers aren't scarey. So breath. And get ready for some testing.

Here's the How to Handle Low Numbers info from the sticky at the top of this page.

DON'T PANIC! or HOW TO HANDLE LOW NUMBERS

First, try to not panic. Post to the Lantus Insulin Support Group or on the Health Board. Make sure your subject line indicates you are concerned about a possible hypo and/or add the 911 icon to the first post in your condo. People who are experienced in dealing with low numbers will be there to help. After posting, remember to refresh your browser periodically to see if people have replied.

It’s important to recognize that just because your cat may be experiencing low BG numbers doesn’t mean that your kitty is critically hypoglycemic. Many cats will have low numbers and never have symptoms. It’s important, though, to bring those numbers up into a safe range. ALWAYS make sure you have a stock of test strips, high carb (HC) canned food that contains gravy and is over 15% carb such as Fancy Feast grilled, marinated, or Gravy Lovers varieties (see Dr. Lisa's Cat Food Nutritional Composition List for a full list of options), and/or a simple sugar solution such as Karo/corn syrup, honey, maple syrup, etc.

If your cat is experiencing symptoms, especially if those symptoms are severe, you need to rub Karo syrup, honey, or maple syrup on the gums or, if symptoms are very severe, administer rectally and get your cat to the nearest 24-hour emergency facility. Take the bottle of syrup with you to administer on the way if necessary. (Note that it is rare that we see episodes of symptomatic hypoglycemia with Lantus and even rarer to see severe symptoms. But, you need to know what to do should they occur.)

The symptoms to be concerned about include but are not limited to:

staggering, uncoordinated movements, 'drunken' walk, wobbling, balance problems
ataxia - usually lack of muscular coordination, but maybe changes in head and neck movements
disorientation (yowling, walking in circles, etc.)
twitching
stupor
convulsions or seizures
coma

If your cat is testing in low numbers and you are not getting a quick response to your post, there are several things you need to do. (Low numbers are under 50mg/dL or 2.8 mmol/L.)

Depending on how carbohydrate sensitive your cat is, feed approximately a teaspoon or less of gravy from high carb food or high carb food only.
(If you have a cat with GI issues, using a couple of drops of syrup plus low carb food is an alternative.)
Test again in 15 – 20 min. Depending on the numbers, give more HC food.
Repeat the above steps every 15 – 20 min. until your cat tests in the 50 mg/dL (2.8 mmol/L) or above range for 2 consecutive tests. Continue to feed in small amounts to keep numbers in a safe range.
Test in 30 - 40 min. and repeat the test and feed process until there are 2 consecutive tests where numbers are stable or rising.
Test in an hour and follow the same steps.

DO NOT become complacent. If number have risen after one or two tests, it’s important to continue testing. Numbers may bobble up and down as the HC food and/or Karo wear off. DO NOT get one test where your cat has risen from low numbers into the 50s and go to sleep or leave the house. You are putting your cat in a risky situation. When in doubt, leave HC food out.
Click to expand...

Part of his drop might be the food switch you're doing. Lower carb food might require a lower dose of insulin. Testing will be key to figuring out what's going on.

One step at a time. A little food (spoon or so),
Test in 20-30 minutes.
Post numbers in your message line.

Marilyn


We're all cross posting a bit. I'll drop out to keep things more clear.
 
Re: Mikey 11/2 AMPS 492 +2 206

I normally put them in the same cell as the 3 o'clock hour so I would go:


57 @ 3 /// 97 @ 3.5

don't forget, you then have to manually change the color for that block per the color coding system....

Since you have not fed him and he has gone up that much, I would maybe get a +4.5 next and see where he goes from there.....

Again, still be prepared for a bounce, or a jump in his numbers....when a cat goes lower than it is used to, their body tends to kick in gear saying I AM GOING TOO LOW!! even though they are normal numbers.....as Mikey gets used to the lower numbers, hopefully he won't bounce AS much....Skooter LOVED to bounce when he first started....but he leveled out pretty nicely, so now when he does "bounce" it is usually only into the upper 100s.....

Yes these darned felines LOVE to give their beans heart attacks....but as you get more comfortable and used to this wonderful sugar dance, those numbers won't scare you as much. Just remember that while the cat is gonnna do what the cat is gonna do, you have all the tools you need to help him. You have HC food, karo syrup (hopefully), testing strips, etc....

I promise it DOES get easier with time :)
 
Re: Mikey 11/2 AMPS 492 +2 206

57 at +2. 97 at +3. Bouncing back would make sense. I will test at +4. I think Mikey's imitating Civvie DK. DK stands for Don's Kitty, but often it could stand for Drama King. He once had a very minor ear infection, and he rolled around here like he was dying. We rushed him to the vet, and she couldn't believe how he was acting.
 
Re: Mikey 11/2 AMPS 492 +2 206

He's 92 at +4. I assume we call that holding steady? I'm planning to test again at +5. Is that ok? He's sleeping by the meter and an article I printed out for me vet. I took a pic, but I can't figure out how to shrink it enough to post it. He's so hysterical.
 
Re: Mikey 11/2 AMPS 492 +2 206

I would go ahead and take down the 911 icon....also go ahead and add your other tests to the subject line....it helps to have the quick reference there versus trying to search the different posts for the information....

He is holding pretty steady....has he had any other food?
 
Re: Mikey 11/2 AMPS 492 +2 206

Hi, Mary!

Nothing like starting the day with your kitty giving you a panic attack!

Here's my 2 cents. I have a kitty who is prone to taking dives like Mikey did today. It's wonderful that you got a +2 test. Here's why. With Lantus, the point at which the insulin is starting to work (aka "onset") is usually around +2. So, you would typically see a spike upward in the numbers after a meal (i.e., the +1 number) and the +2 would be about the same as your pre-shot test number. When you see a BIG drop like today, it's a warning that numbers are very likely going to keep heading down and when the drop is as big as you saw this morning, there's a good deal of momentum behind the dropping numbers. I would have gotten a test in 30 - 60 min. and probably fed a small amount of low carb canned food. The idea behind giving a snack is to see if it slows the drop down. With your test in the 50s, I likely would have fed another snack but used some high carb food.

Do you have a stockpile of high and medium carb food on hand?

I would also continue to get some test just so you see where numbers are heading. If they are rising quickly, you probably don't need to test all that frequently.

You might want to look at some of our spreadsheets (SS) to see how we fill in the cells when we're testing a few times during an hour.

Nice job this morning!!
 
Re: Mikey 11/2 AMPS 492 +2 206

A couple of housekeeping chores here to make it easier for Tight Regulation board folks to help you:

1. Go back to your first post in this thread. Open it.
2. Click the edit key (somewhere in the upper right maybe)
3. Go to your subject line. You can add Mikey's numbers as you test. i.e., +3=57 +4=97, etc. Click the none circle by the post icon line. That'll get rid of the 911 which we really try to save for emergency situations and at the moment, you're out of that category!!! Can always change to 911 later if needed.

Great job this morning!!!

Marilyn
 
Re: Mikey 11/2 AMPS 492 +2 206

Hi Sienne and Gabby,

Thanks for your help! Mikey seems to take a big dip at +2 most days. I think he's trying to send me to the cardiac care. lol I did get +3.5 and a +4 reading, but I didn't log them correctly in his spreadsheet. I think they're right now. Maybe. lol I haven't fed him anymore, because he's coming up.

I have a "Mikey Emergency Kit" on top of my 'fridge. It contains:
-karo syrup
-high carb gravy food that I know he'll eat
-extra lancets
-extra strips
-extra syringes
-extra alcohol wipes
-extra syringes
-an extra battery for my meter
-vet and emergency vet phone numbers
-directions to the emergency vet
Eventually I want to get an extra meter. What else should I put in it. (Valium for me? lol)

I will post his next BG at about 11:30. I'm going to grab a shower while I can. Mothers of infants have nothing on us!
 
Re: Mikey 11/2 AMPS 492 +2 206 +3 57 +3.5 97 +4 92

Thank you, Marilynn. It's so cool that I can do that!
 
Re: Mikey 11/2 AMPS 492 +2 206 +3 57 +3.5 97 +4 92

your kit looks good....
I would get a few various gravy canned foods.... and use a sharpie to write the carb % on them, that way when you are in a hurry,
you can choose better.
 
Re: Mikey 11/2 AMPS 492 +2 206 +3 57 +3.5 97 +4 92 +5 117

He's 117 at +5. I have no idea if that's good or bad, but at least it's not panic inducing.
 
Re: Mikey 11/2 AMPS 492 +2 206 +3 57 +3.5 97 +4 92 +5 117

YAY Mary!! You found us!

I think you can hold off on testing now until pmps. That huge drop from 492 to 206 to 57 may (likely) cause a bounce because it was so fast. Don't increase his dose based upon any high numbers he gets because of this. Just hang on to the 0.25u. I haven't opened his ss yet to see if you continued giving it this morning, but that's where you should be.

Are you ok with giving up the dry now?

Let's see where he is at pmps.

edited to add: i see you did give 0.25u this morning. excellent!
 
Re: Mikey 11/2 AMPS 492 +2 206 +3 57 +3.5 97 +4 92 +5 117

Hi Mary and Mikey the Narcoleptic cat! :lol: :lol:

I'm also glad you found us. For our other LL family members, Mary and I have been friends a very, very long time through the Scottish Fold group. Her boys, Mikey and DK, are from the same breeder as LBG (Gracie for those of you who are new). However, they have very different personalities. Mikey is very laid back and we all know the Principessa's demeanor :lol: :lol: :lol:

Great job, today, Mary. Glad someone was around to help you; I was having a nice I-) I-) Mary has already started getting data on Mikey and has handled some lower numbers all by herself which is great.

I know Mikey loves to dive but I just wonder if that 57 was maybe a bad test? It's pretty odd to see a cat come down that fast and go right back up in 30 minutes without food. Some cats bounce fast but that's pretty quick with no food. hard to say but, next time, might be worth a retest.
 
Re: Mikey 11/2 AMPS 492 +2 206 +3 57 +3.5 97 +4 92 +5 117

Here's the best description of our day:


Thanks to Marje for shrinking the pic for me. Mikey has been brushed since then, and is looking much more dapper. He's at 298 at +8.

Julie, I'm still giving Mikey 1/16 of a cup of dry per feeding. I'm going slow, because he's all over the place. In the Scottish Fold world, that's known as being a little stink'ear.

Thanks, everyone, for your help and good wishes.
 
Re: Mikey 11/2 AMPS 492 +2 206 +3 57 +3.5 97 +4 92 +5 117

As long as you're testing him and around to monitor, you could stop feeding the dry. there isn't any reason to continue - i'm not sure if you're thinking there is or not.

love love love the picture!!! :-D he's so cute!
 
Re: Mikey 11/2 AMPS 492 +2 206 +3 57 +3.5 97 +4 92 +5 117

I'm a bit of a Nervous Nellie, Julie. I'm not around enough during the week to monitor him closely enough for my tastes, so I'm still moving slowly. Overprotective cat mom, I know! Thank you for all your help.
 
Re: Mikey 11/2 AMPS 492 +2 206 +3 57 +3.5 97 +4 92 +5 117

Mikey seems to be staying pretty steady tonight. Can someone give me any idea what that means? It must have some significance. I just hope it doesn't mean the sky is falling or something! lol
 
Re: Mikey 11/2 AMPS 492 +2 206 +3 57 +3.5 97 +4 92 +5 117

Hi Mary

Just as a housekeeping item, when the AM cycle is over and we start with the PM cycle, we go back to the first post in the current condo, click on "edit" and update the subject line with the evening numbers so it would be:

11/2 Mikey PMPS 282 +2245 +3 240

That way those of us scanning, especially for new members, can quickly stay abreast of the numbers.

It looks like he might want to be flat yellow tonight but my crystal ball is hazy. Sometimes we don't have an answer for why they do something different so we just have to chalk it up to them being a cat. Occasionally when the bounce starts, the numbers go way up but then they come back down and settle in flat yellow for a bit. Normally when we see a lot of flat yellow, we anticipate the bounce might start to clear. Especially if you see a high number, flat yellow, and then another high number. That second high number is often the "high before the break" and is a signal to be on the guard for the bounce clearing.

Hope you are feeling better!
 
i understand, Mary. He is precious to you and you want to keep him safe! cat_pet_icon

What I'd suggest then, is the next time you have a couple of consecutive days off, withdraw the dry food on the first day off. Then you'll be able to skip his shots entirely if he's running low. The effects of the dry food should be out of his system in about 24 hours.

For example, if you're off next Saturday and Sunday, on Friday night you could skip his shot and don't give him any more dry food. Test him some Friday night and see where he is on Saturday morning and decide then if he should have a shot or not. By Saturday night, any dry food carbs that he ate on Friday should be mostly gone. Then you'd have Sunday to see what his blood sugar is doing and get advice here on how to proceed on Monday.

I know it's hard and weird to trust internet strangers, but if you want your sweet Mikey to go into remission instead of getting insulin shots and blood sugar tests for the rest of his life, getting rid of the dry food is essential. As long as he's eating it he's not going to go off of insulin. It just won't happen.

You must think I'm crazy to be stuck on the dry food issue. It's just that I've seen so many cats make dramatic improvement when the dry food is taken away, including many newly diagnosed cats that go off of insulin just with the switch to low carb canned food and a short stint (days-weeks) of insulin support for their pancreas. It's hard to know with new people how much is encouraging and at what point it becomes pushing - i want to encourage & educate you, but not push you.

If you are around to test him you can be confident you will be able to raise his blood sugar just using the canned food and possibly some karo syrup or honey. Most people here do work, many full-time. They feed raw food or canned food while they are at work. We had an Automatic Feeder that is worth its weight in gold when I went back to work while Punkin was diabetic (I teach in Special Ed). You set it for the times you want it to open, put food in up to 4 compartments along with an ice cube to keep the food fresh, and go off to work knowing that the feeder will open at the times you preset and food will be available to Mikey to help keep his blood sugar in a safe range. We bought our auto-feeder at a local PetCo. Some people order them online.

I don't want to make you crazy, so I'll do my best not to mention the dry food again. ;-) Putting duct tape across my fingers right now. :-D It's just that I know how scarce good information is elsewhere on diabetic cats, and if we don't tell you how important this is for remission, how will you know?

Hope you're having a good weekend.
 
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