Meet Blue

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Kris Jacobs

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He is 10 years old, and his usual average weight for the last few years has been 22 pounds.

blue.jpg


I am an IT professional, my wife is a factory worker. We are DINKs - Dual-Income-No-Kids. Our cats = our children.
We have two cats, Blue & Baby.
Blue is all about my wife, and Baby our tortoise shell female is all about me - she's 15 and healthy, never had a problem.

The past few weeks Blue has been lethargic, drinking tons of water, making giant clumps in the litterbox, and acting like he is starving all the time.
It progressively got worse as I think back upon it.
We took him to the vet yesterday afternoon, his weight was down to 15.5 lbs - his BG was 553 mg/dL. I was shocked, not cool!

Our vet diagnosed him as diabetic, and showed us how to administer insulin shots, and sent me to Sam's Club or Wal-Mart for Humulin-N & syringes.
He prescribed 2 units every 12 hours to start, then a glucose check after 4 or 5 days - but he is going to be gone all next week on vacation, we won't be able to see him again to run the blood chemistry until April 9th.
So he stated do the 2 units every 12 hours for 3 days, then bump him up to 4 units every 12 hours until April 9th.

My wife was a wreck, she wanted to put him down right then and there.
He is a big time Momma's boy & they totally love each other, but Momma is terrible at coping with emotional stress.

I said HELL NO - I WILL treat him. We got him home, then I ran out to buy the insulin and the syringes. Our vet trained us with saline, Blue tolerates the shots without even a blink.
I gave him two units of insulin last night around 1800, and again this morning at 0530.

Once I got to work today & got some things cleared, I found this site.
Thank you so much!
I am a nut for information, data, benchmarking, etc.
This morning I had no clue if a human glucometer can be used on a pet cat, now I will be fully equipped to monitor Blue's BG myself before I get home this evening.
I am TONS more confident that we'll be able to regulate him and he'll get back to being Momma's lovey boy.

My plan:
They both normally eat 0500-ish in the morning when my wife goes to work, and 1715-ish when I get home from work. She takes care of morning feeding, I take care of evening.
I do not intend to change that.
I do intend to get up at 0530 right as my wife leaves for work and give Blue his insulin, then do it again at 1730 when I get home from work.
Tonight I will check his BG when I get home with the new glucometer kit, and feed them & give him 2 units of insulin.
Later this evening I'll check his BG again and see where he's at.
This Saturday I'll getup early and do a full BG curve on him over the course of the day, in 1-hour intervals.
According to my vet, I would go up to 4 units / 12 hours on Sunday morning, April 1st.
After doing his BG Curve on Saturday, I'll feel way more confident boosting his dose on Sunday - if I do it at all based on the numbers I generate.
Come April 9th, I'll take him in to get another blood chemistry run by the vet, but I will be armed with all the data I've collected and recorded at home.
How does this sound?

I understand now that Glargine (Lantus) might be better insulin to go with, but the Humulin-N is what I have now and I didn't know any better at the time but to follow our vet's instructions.
He's known both cats for ten years and we've always been happy with him.

Knowledge is power - I went from having a disturbing uncomfortable fear of how Blue is going to turn out, to feeling like A Champion once I spent some time reading here.

Thank you!

-Kris
Battle Creek, Michigan
 
Forgot to mention:
Blue eats Hill's Prescription Diet c/d - dry in the morning, canned in the evening.
He's eaten this for years because of crystals in his urine. Since feeding c/d his pee-pee plumbing problems went away & stayed away.
 
Welcome! Welcome!
So glad you found us! I guess with your reading the better of the insulin is PZI, & the L's.
Walmart has a great meter and the strips are very affordable.
Keep posting, asking and receiving support!
 
Welcome!
Be ready for everyone to be dumping tons of info on you, even though you have already got a good start on things.

Home testing is easy and it will let you and yr wife know that Blue is in safe numbers or not.
At the start, it takes a bit of practice, but you will get the hang of it soon.
The Relion is the most economical meter and also the most popular with many people here for cost and reliability, but many others are very good.
I love the Bayer contour meters, and my backup is the OneTouch mini.
Do NOT get any of the FreeStyle meters as their strips give false info for cats when testing.
Some people also say meters starting with the TRU in their names are not great either.
Any questions or difficulties, just ask.
Testing on cat’s ear

Yeah, the insulin you have is not good at all and it would be a very good idea to switch.
Lantus and Levemir are great, and there is a wealth of info and support available for use of both insulins.
For your current one, it's not really used much anymore as it does not last the full 12hrs and is very harsh on the cat, but here's some info on it so you will know about the insulin you are now using.
Humulin Primer Info

Duration is the length of time an insulin continues to lower blood glucose.
The four duration categories are:
* Rapid-acting or Fast-acting insulin begins to work shortly after injection, peaks in about 1 hour, and continue to work for 2 to 4 hours.
* Regular or Short-acting insulin reaches the bloodstream 30 minutes to an hour after injection, peaks anywhere from 2 to 3 hours after injection, and is effective for approximately 6-8 hours.
* Intermediate-acting insulin generally reaches the bloodstream about 1-2 hours after injection, and is effective for about 8 to 12 hours.
* Long-acting insulin generally reaches the bloodstream about 2 to 4 hours after injection, peaks 4 to 8 hours later and is effective for about 12 to 18 hours.
Note that an insulin that is long-acting in humans may be intermediate-acting in cats. The duration classes used here are for humans and usually match those in dogs -- their classifications in cats are somewhat shorter due to cats' faster metabolism.


Most people are using the long-acting insulins today. Most of the other types are only used by humans or in some cats with special needs (ie. high dose cats with Acro etc.) Many of the short and intermediate insulins have been done away with.
Short acting insulins are usually designated by the letter R (Humalin R, Novalin R) they are never used alone, typically they are given as a bolus at Preshot to bring the BG down quickly in the first few hours of the cycle before the basal insulin (a long acting) begins to take effect. This is used by high dose cats with conditions like Acro or insulin resistant antibodies. It may also be used in an inpatient setting to manage a cat with ketoacidosis.
Intermediate insulins (Lente) are insulins like Vetsulin (Caninsulin) and NPH, some of the human insulins have N in thier name (Humalin N) although some vets are still prescribing them they are becoming less used. Espcially since Vetsulin has been taken off the market in many countries. The more successes with long acting insulins have encouraged many vets to avoid these once typical insulins. Many are however still used with good results in dogs with diabetes (dogs have a metabolism more like humans and these insulins work much longer for them) the animal approved insulin (Vetsulin, in Europe/Canada sold as Caninsulin) was made primarily for dogs.
Long-acting insulins are the synthetic analogs such as Lantus and Levemir. PZI and Prozinc are simular to these however their duration is often somewhat shorter putting them "in between" intermediate and long-acting. Several other long acting insulins are no longer manufactured (Ultratard, Humalin U)

Food - feeding low carb wet food is the way to go to lower Blue's high numbers.
Here are some food links, with Binky's as one which lists many foods and the carb % of each.
Binky’s Food Lists
Feeding Your Cat: Know The Basics of Feline Nutrition
List of Low Carb Healthy Treats
That dry food the vets and others say is good is likely contributing to alot of health problems like crystals and even the diabetes.

There are some cats who are switched over to wet low carb food and don't need the insulin, or need insulin for only a short time.

You may want to try that..... start home testing to record Blue's BG, and switch his food to wet, then see if his numbers come down. It's a good idea to be testing when making food changes because the insulin you are giving may become too high and will need to be reduced.

I am sure with time, your wife will become better with the situation when she sees how much better Blue is acting and feeling!

Ask all the questions you have; lots of people will help you get answers and solutions.
 
With N you need to feed at least a 1/2 hr. before shooting so food is on board. Fast acting and short duration. There is no way I would bump him to 4 units. Home testing is going to give you all the info you need. Also agree about switching to Levemir, Lantus or ProZinc and get your boy off that N insulin. Great for dogs, worthless for cats.
 
:RAHCAT Way to go, Kris! Arming yourself with information!!

I felt overwhelmed when Hershey was diagnosed Nov, 2011. My husband said we'd do whatever I wanted to do, so, OF COURSE we're treating him!!! I didn't even know cats could get diabetes - came home and started researching (and kicking myself for feeding dry food and missing the symptoms for who knows how long!). Immediately put him on a low carb canned food and he started on insulin in Jan, 2012. Our vet wanted to keep him for a few days to 'regulate' him, but he hasn't been back to the vet since Nov. I found this forum shortly after diagnosis and they helped educate me on how to start regulation at home. After all, regulation can't be achieved in a few days anyway -

Initially, Doug did all of the testing/shooting (as I sat quietly holding my breath and sometimes closing my eyes) and I did the 'paperwork' - joining the forum, reading for hours at a time, keeping the SS caught up... One night, I was home alone with Hershey and he just wasn't acting right. I was so scared that his numbers were really low and there was nothing I could do for him because I didn't know how to test him and didn't want to treat like a hypo if it wasn't. Well, that was the end of that - I decided I would not be left to feel that helpless again! I had Doug teach me how to test and now I test about half the time. It did take me a little longer to start giving the shots and I still have to MAKE myself give them, but I'm working on it. :smile: We give Hershey his shots while he's eating and he rarely even notices.

Hershey is great about testing, too. I think most of say it's all about a routine. We always test in the rocker/recliner beside the lamp. When I turn the lamp on, Hershey comes. He doesn't mind the pokes, especially when there's a freeze dried treat to be had!!! It did take some practice, but his ears bleed much easier now.

We started with an iPet glucometer but quickly found the strips too expensive to stay with. We now use a ReliOn Confirm from Walmart. We order the strips online cheaper than at Walmart and they are roughly $.28/strip. We also order our Wellness canned food online cheaper than in stores. It's delivered to my door and I save that almost $4/gallon in gas!

We shoot twice a day and feed 4 times a day. We bought an automatic feeder (had never heard of one until I found this group!) that we use if we're not going to be home at mid-cycle meals.

We didn't get a choice of insulin, either, our vet only uses ProZinc. But, we've been pleased with it so far.

Blue is a beautiful kitty and lucky to have someone who loves him so!

You've gotten some good advice/information already, so I'll just say WELCOME - keep reading and asking questions!

Libby (and Hershey, too!)
 
Kris Jacobs said:
Forgot to mention:
Blue eats Hill's Prescription Diet c/d - dry in the morning, canned in the evening.
He's eaten this for years because of crystals in his urine. Since feeding c/d his pee-pee plumbing problems went away & stayed away.
Click to expand...

Hi Kris,
Unfortunately, the c/d food is more than likely why Blue has developed diabetes. The canned version is 22 kcal% in carbs and the dry is 36%. We recommend no more than 10% kcal from carbs. That should be for any cat, not just diabetic ones. Their system is not meant to process grains, which are a large percentage of ingredients in those foods.

I hope you will be open to a diet change for Blue. One of the best websites to learn how detrimental many commercial foods are for cats is written by a well respected veterinarian, Dr. Lisa Pierson. http://www.catinfo.org/ Her site will not only teach you how to successfully switch your cats' diets, but why it is so important they eat a species appropriate diet.

I just read the following today on a feline mailing list. I believe it may have been written by one of our members, Patti. Dr. Lisa covers this too, but I think Patti condensed it very well and makes a very convincing case for using raw diet for cats with crystal formation problems.

There has been extremely few, if any, reports of a cat developing FUS as a result of being on a raw diet. Part of the reason for this is due to the well known fact that raw meat diets result in acid urine output and grain-based diets result in alkaline urine production. Acid urine is not a favorable medium for struvite crystals to form, so even if a particular cat may be predisposed to FUS, if the urine is kept acidic, the probability of crystals forming is low. Plus,the natural juices and water content of the raw meat diet insures some natural fluid intake, unlike dry cereal-based cat foods which dehydrate the cats, thus making the cat drink water all the time.
Click to expand...

Blue has a great chance of being successfully treated because you found this board early. I echo what everyone else has said about the insulin. Lantus & Levemir are far better for cats than N. Please read the following from the AAHA, the American Animal Hospital Association. http://www.aahanet.org/PublicDocuments/AAHADiabetesGuidelines.pdf

I'm happy to hear that you want to do the best you can for Blue! We can help you do that.
 
Welcome to FDMB!
My vet started Sneakers out on Humulin as well. It didn't do much for her. I did research and decided to go with ProZinc and he was okay with ordering it for me.

Good luck with the diet change and testing!
 
Welcome Kris!

Good job on the research...for an IT professional I would expect nothing less ;-)

Now we just need to get a Google spreasheet set up, insert the link in your signature and you are off to the races!!!

Tanya
 
Welcome Kris and Blue. I'm fairly new here too. Be prepared to read a lot and learn something new every day.

As Vicky says, you might want to consider a raw diet for your kitties. One week after my #1 kitty was diagnosed with diabetes, #2 got crystals. The vet originally put #2 on C/D wet and dry, but it just wasn't working because diabetic kitty would eat anything in sight including the bad for her food. When I asked my vet what food would work for the two of them, she suggested raw food. She has seen a number of cats improve, and she says even get better PH levels with raw than with C/D. It's yet another thing to learn, and it may take a while to do the switch. The www.catinfo.org website has lots of good suggestion on how to do this.

My Kitty #2 (crystal guy) went from 1/2 wet and 1/2 dry C/D to 3/4 wet, 1/4 dry then to mostly wet and just 1T of dry, then all wet. From there we did slowly did the raw introduction. It was way easier with diabetic kitty because she eats anything and she switched to 100% raw within a few days. The cost of raw food, depending on the proteins you choose, is actually a bit cheaper a day for me than C/D. Both cats have been 100% raw for a couple of weeks now, and next week I'm supposed to take a urine sample of kitty #2 to the vet and we'll see how he is doing. There have been absolutely no signs of problems. I make sure I add some water to the meals as he isn't a big water drinker.
 
Welcome!

I just wanted highlight a few important points others have mentioned.

1. Diet--in most cases, urinary tract problems are caused by the chronic dehydration associated with a dry diet. Once the cat is on a 100% canned or raw diet and is properly hydrated, the UT problems disappear. Now that Blue has diabetes, he needs to be on a 100% canned (or raw if you go that route) diet, with less than 10% carbs. The canned food alone will solve the UT problems--you don't need the prescription diet. Here's the article on catinfo.org that discusses the subject: http://catinfo.org/#Cystitis_

2. Insulin--as others have mentioned Humulin-N is NOT a good insulin for cats, and is no longer recommended. Unfortunately, your vet seems to not be up to date with current feline diabetes treatment guidelines. Sadly, this is more common than not. Here are the AAHA guidelines, that recommend the use of Lantus (Levemir is very similar to Lantus) or Prozinc: http://www.aahanet.org/PublicDocuments/AAHADiabetesGuidelines.pdf. I would print these out, along with the article on Lantus that I've attached, and give them to your vet and ask for a new script. I understand that you may feel like you need to give the Humulin N a chance, but you really don't want to do that. The chances of your cat getting any better on the Humulin are very small, where Lantus or Levemir have an 84% remission rate (when combined with diet change and home monitoring) in newly diagnosed cats. The sooner you start treatment with Lantus or Levemir, the better your chances of remission are. But it also works the other way--the longer you wait, the more unlikely it becomes that your cat will ever reach remission. Not to mention that Humulin N is just plain more dangerous for cats than the slower acting insulins--it is far more likely you will have a hypoglycemic incident. In fact, with the way your vet is currently overdosing the insulin the high carb food is probably the only thing that has prevented a hypoglycemic incident so far. Most cats only need about 1u of insulin on a low carb, canned diet.

Right now, I'm helping out a friend's cat who was prescribed the exact same treatment as you--Humulin N, no home testing, high carb diet. The vet started him at 2u, and then raised to 4u. He was on 4u for a while when he started urinating uncontrollably all over her house. He developed diabetic neuropathy so bad, he couldn't walk or use his litterbox anymore. The vet told her to raise to 6u, and that's when she got a hold of me through a mutual friend. I taught her how to home test, had her get a script for Lantus, and we started over with a diet change at 1u. It's been about 4 months now on the Lantus, and her cat is like a new cat. He's well regulated on 1.25u of insulin, his neuropathy has healed to the point where he can now run, jump, and use his litterbox again exclusively. She sent me a video of him running around and playing with a toy mouse the other day, and you would seriously not recognize him as the same cat as the one I saw when I showed her how to home test him.

She's actually still with her vet--she just no longer goes to him for diabetes advice since he's not up to date and he acknowledges and is fine with that. Many people here do the same if their vets are willing to work with them. It's your cat, and if your vet does not agree with changing the treatment plan after you bring him the information that shows it is the best course, then I would find another vet. My vet was great in that she recommended Lantus, told me I had to home test, and gave me a list of low carb canned commercial foods in different price ranges. However, her dosing advice did not follow the recommended protocol. I stuck with it for a week or so, and then decided I was going with the recommended protocol for cats, not the one she used with her dogs. She didn't like it, but in the end my cat's health was more important than my vet's feelings or pride. Bandit's now in remission and healthier than he's ever been.
 

Attachments

Blue Update

Thanks for all the advice!

Blue was diagnosed on the 29th. Baby got sick the following weekend, she didn't poop for 3 days straight. Our regular vet we've seen for years was on vacation, so I found a new vet.
New vet did a barium series on Baby, no constipation or foreign objects - her large intestine just seemed cramped up and full of gas. After the barium went thru, she was fine, and she's been fine since.

Baby getting sick was a HUGE BLESSING for Blue!
We LOVE the new vet - there are three DVMs, a wonderful facility, all the staffmembers are very warm and compassionate.
They called me the next day to follow up on Baby! I had no "output" from her at the time, so then they called back again a couple days later to make sure she was pooping OK.

I abandoned the re-check of Blue at our old vet on April 9th, got Blue in to see our new vet on April 10th.
I took him in and went over my BG measurements for the past few days with Doctor Randy - I bought an AlphaTRAK kit and started testing Blue with it on April 5th.
We ditched the U-100 Humulin-N, and got him started on U-40 ProZinc.

We also switched foods when Baby had her problem, to Hill's Prescription Diet W/D. It has less fat, less carbs, more protein, and more fiber than C/D, is marketed for diabetic cats & gastrointestinal health, and Randy assured me that it's fine to keep the struvites away too, same as C/D. As far as quantity, he said that 1/3 to 1/2 a can W/D wet in the evenings, then keep out as much W/D dry as they want to eat would be fine.

He stated our goal would be to get him consistently between 150 and 250 mg/dL, and that our Prozinc dosage minimum for Blue would be 2 units, maximum 6 units.
Today I need to call in and give them an update & let them know I bumped him to 3 units.

Since April 10th Blue's BG has consistently been over 300, on 2 units of Prozinc b.i.d. at 0530 and 1730.
Last night I bumped him up to 3 units. I checked him this morning at 0530 when he got his shot, then again at 0630 and 0730. I go home for lunch, so I'll check him again at 1130.
I'm aware of and looking out for the Somogyi effect - so far I think I'm pretty far away from needing to consider it. I really want to dedicate a solid 12 hours to do a proper curve in 1-hour intervals, but I haven't had the chance yet. I will do so before I consider increasing him beyond 3 units.

Based on my reading here, it looks like Blue's diet might be closer to the foundation of his hyperglycemia. I will consider something like a raw diet and discuss with our new vet.
 
Re: Blue Update

Kris Jacobs said:
We also switched foods when Baby had her problem, to Hill's Prescription Diet W/D. It has less fat, less carbs, more protein, and more fiber than C/D, is marketed for diabetic cats & gastrointestinal health, and Randy assured me that it's fine to keep the struvites away too, same as C/D. As far as quantity, he said that 1/3 to 1/2 a can W/D wet in the evenings, then keep out as much W/D dry as they want to eat would be fine.
Click to expand...

Hill's W/D is just about the worst thing you can feed a diabetic cat. I believe this food caused my cat's diabetes.

Diabetic cats need less than 10% carbs, and no prescription dry food even comes close to that amount of carbs. Purina DM is the ONLY prescription food that is good for a diabetic, and that's pretty much the same thing as the cheaper grocery store cat foods, of which there are many low carb options. You can get a low-carb, premium cat food for less that what you are paying for the prescription food with cheap ingredients. If you look at the first two ingredients of the W/D, they are RICE and CORN, two things a diabetic cat should not eat. It is like feeding a diabetic human a super-sugary cereal for every meal.

Check out this link: http://felinediabetes.com/diabetic-cat-diets.htm. You can feed ANY canned commercial food with less than 10% carbs. Notice that the W/D is is 37% carbs! You are not going to be able to regulate your cat on that food, and it's going to drive your insulin dose up sky high, which is dangerous for the cat. Most cats on a low carb, canned diet do not need much more than 1u of insulin.

Cat's develop urinary tract problems because of the chronic dehydration caused by dry food. Once the cat is on a 100% canned diet, they do not have any more urinary tract problems. Please read this page written by a vet who is an expert in feline nutrtion: http://catinfo.org/#Cystitis_

Check out her general nutrition page as well: http://catinfo.org/
 
I know it is hard to go against your vets advice sometimes. I wish, I really do wish, that we could trust everything our vets say and not ever have to worry about it putting our kitties in harm's way. But that's just not going to happen - vets need to know a LOT about a LOT of animals. They may be well intentioned, but very few of them have gone the extra mile to do more up to date research on feline diabetes. And unfortunately, this lack of education and proper treatment protocols has gone as far as killing innocent kitties... including this poor girl just today.

But on this forum, we all live feline diabetes, 24/7/365. We know the song and dance inside out because we live it every single day. The people on here have more hands on experience than pretty much any vet you'll find out there.

A few things I'd like to point out -

1- Using the Alphatrak meter is unnecessary. It is very expensive, the strips are very expensive (like $1 each - and you should be testing at LEAST 4 times a day), and it is really no more accurate than a human meter. The AT simply reads higher than human meters ('cat calibrated'), but we make up for that variation in all of the documents on this site. Another downside is, you can only get the strips and supplies for it from a vet - so if you run out of strips in an emergency and your vet is closed, you are in trouble. People above recommended some good, cheap human meters to you.

2 - Any "prescription" diet your vet tries to push on you is crud. Usually because the same reason as above - some Hills representative told them in a seminar how good the food was, and they just didn't have the time/interest to research it more. Purina DM is the only canned prescription food suitable for a dibetic, however it is made with poor quality ingredients and is very expensive when it is no different than grocery store brands. Hills m/d in both forms is too high in carbs for a diabetic, and again, very poor quality (byproducts and liver) and expensive.

3 - Please do not start him at 3 units. That is too high of a starting dose, even for a big cat. Please start him at 1u at the most. If you switch to a low carb canned food, less than 7% on Janet and Binky's list, his insulin needs may drop dramatically and a 3u dose could cause him serious harm or death.

My plan of action would be -

1 - Eliminate ALL the dry food from your cats, and all the Hills junk. Start feeding them both a low carb, diabetic friendly food from Janet and Binky's list. DO NOT start insulin yet.

2 - Test Blue's blood glucose frequently over the next 3-4 days and observe his blood glucose levels. He might be a diet regulated diabetic but you will not know until you eliminate all the high carb food from his diet. DO NOT start insulin yet.

3 - From there, make the decision to start insulin and at what dose.
 
Thanks Rylee.

Responses to your Points:
1. AlphaTrak meter: I don't mind the expense I already own the kit, it came with 50 strips and 100 lancets. I can get additional test strips & lancets at ADW: http://www.americandiabeteswholesale.co ... 54_107.htm

2. I am convinced 100% on food - thank you all. I just went over my lunch hour by about 45 minutes, reading Dr. Lisa Pierson's stuff.
I'm convinced I can greatly improve his diabetes condition AND not worry about his pee-pee getting blocked by feeding them 100% canned low-carb food.
I had given them some more W/D dry when I walked thru the door, by the time I left to come back to work I took it away from them, dumped it in the trash, and gave them some more W/D canned. W/D dry = 37% carbs according to the list, canned = 26%.

3. He's been on 2 units of Humulin-N to start for almost a week, then 2 units of Prozinc since then, up to last night, when I increased him to 3.


Response to your Action Plan:
1. I'm going to pick something canned that is under 10% carbs, and feed them both 100% canned. The wife is goin to ***** about "wasting money" when I throw that new bag of W/D away, but in the long run I believe we will be saving a significant amount of money not having to buy the "Prescription" brand foods. I'm going to keep the W/D canned in case I need to use it to help transition them. If not, it will get thrown away too. I am going to stop insulin, starting right now - he will not get a shot tonight, but will get fed based on my new knowledge.

2. I will be testing him as often as possible - every 1 to 2 hours when I'm awake, as much as a 6 hour interval when I'm sleeping or at work. Is that frequent enough?

3. After a few days I will see how his BG is with just diet, talk with the vet, and decide on insulin. Do I need even bother with talking with the vet at this point?

Thanks all! I'm now like, "OMG carbs! Duh!"
 
GREAT on the food change! You will definitely see some improvement. However, please reduce the dose of insulin to 1u before you change the diet. BG can drop 100-300 points with the diet change depending on the cat, and some lucky cats even immediately go into remission once the dry food is gone. Giving the same amount of insulin as you are now can cause a dangerous hypoglycemic indident, as we sadly saw with two cats on the boards today. 3u is a high dose of insulin--most cats on a low carb, canned diet do not need much more than 1u of insulin twice a day. You can always slowly raise the dose after a week or two if it's not enough, by no more than .5u at a time.

You can also print out this document to bring to your vet, if you want to get your vet on board with you in changing to a low carb, canned diet: http://www.aahanet.org/PublicDocuments/AAHADiabetesGuidelines.pdf, and with restarting the dose.

See page 3-4 (217) where it discusses diet. It states that diabetic cats should consume "the lowest amount of carbohydrate levels in the diet that the cat will eat" and that "canned foods are preferred over dry foods."

I'm going to pick something canned that is under 10% carbs, and feed them both 100% canned. The wife is goin to ***** about "wasting money" when I throw that new bag of W/D away, but in the long run I believe we will be saving a significant amount of money not having to buy the "Prescription" brand foods. I'm going to keep the W/D canned in case I need to use it to help transition them. If not, it will get thrown away too. I am going to stop insulin, starting right now - he will not get a shot tonight, but will get fed based on my new knowledge.
Click to expand...

Don't throw the bag away! Return it to your vet for a refund. They'll take it back opened if you tell them that your cat won't eat it anymore. The stuff is junk and cats refuse it all the time, so it's really common.

You will find that you will SAVE money feeding a canned diet. You don't need an expensive food, just something low carb and preferably grain-free. One thing that doesn't get taken into account often is the digestibility of canned food--your cat isn't digesting most of the dry food because most of the ingredients are grains, so they are just pooping out most of their food. Once you switch to a meat-based diet, the cat will digest most of food, so you won't need to feed as much canned food as you do dry. Also, you'll save money on litter because you'll find that the cat will poop 50--75% less on the canned food than it did on the dry food.

Here's a great explanation of how it ends up being less expensive overall: http://fnae.org/cost.html
 
Julia & Bandit said:
GREAT on the food change! You will definitely see some improvement. However, please reduce the dose of insulin to 1u before you change the diet. BG can drop 100-300 points with the diet change depending on the cat, and some lucky cats even immediately go into remission once the dry food is gone. Giving the same amount of insulin as you are now can cause a dangerous hypoglycemic indident, as we sadly saw with two cats on the boards today. 3u is a high dose of insulin--most cats on a low carb, canned diet do not need much more than 1u of insulin twice a day. You can always slowly raise the dose after a week or two if it's not enough, by no more than .5u at a time.
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I know. See my Action Plan points above, specifically #1. ;-)
 
Kris Jacobs said:
Julia & Bandit said:
GREAT on the food change! You will definitely see some improvement. However, please reduce the dose of insulin to 1u before you change the diet. BG can drop 100-300 points with the diet change depending on the cat, and some lucky cats even immediately go into remission once the dry food is gone. Giving the same amount of insulin as you are now can cause a dangerous hypoglycemic indident, as we sadly saw with two cats on the boards today. 3u is a high dose of insulin--most cats on a low carb, canned diet do not need much more than 1u of insulin twice a day. You can always slowly raise the dose after a week or two if it's not enough, by no more than .5u at a time.
Click to expand...

I know. See my Action Plan points above, specifically #1. ;-)
Click to expand...

Unless you are transitioning to a 100% canned diet immediately, I do not think that you should stop insulin completely. It's not good for a cat that needs insulin to go for long periods of time without it, and most cats do need some insulin even once the diet change has been made. As long as you're monitoring at home, it's perfectly safe to give insulin during the diet change as long as it is not a high dose. Maybe you could try .5u instead of 1u if the 1u makes you nervous?

If you do transition immediately, please don't wait more than 3-5 days before starting insulin again.
 
Oh no more dry for them, period.

They would be thrilled to eat 100% canned - they totally love it. They have had their last dry kibble! :)
 
Kris Jacobs said:
Oh no more dry for them, period.

They would be thrilled to eat 100% canned - they totally love it. They have had their last dry kibble! :)
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Ok then--just don't be afraid restart insulin right away (at .5u-1u) if you're still seeing numbers in the 200+ range. And make sure you're testing for ketones. Most people see what drops they're going to see from the diet change within 48 hrs, but it can take a few more days for some carbs to completely clear, especially from dry food.
 
Awwww yah!

1730 BG check, 413 mg/dL.

I fed him NO dry, NO w/d canned - he eagerly ate a whole can of Friskies Turkey & Giblets Classic Pate.

Once he was done eating, I gave him 1 unit of Prozinc.

1850 BG check, 387.

1950 BG check, 308.

I have never seen his BG so responsive to any dose of any insulin when he was eating Hill's food of any formulation.

I will continue to check his BG hourly or so until I goto bed, about 2330.

I'm excited, thanks everyone!
 
Sorry - I did not think you had started the PZI yet. 1u is a good starting dose :-D I just would hate to see him plummet because of the carb drop and then get shot 3u and hypo. Better to be high for a few days than hypo for even just a minute.

That is great progress though!! Carbs really do make so much difference. A human diabetic is never going to get their blood glucose under control eating nothing but Twinkies and Coca cola, and neither are our cats. :lol:
 
That's wonderful news. :smile: Why don't you set up a spreadsheet to track your numbers? These help out a ton if you want to get advice either here on the boards or have an easy way to show your vet your numbers. Here's the instructions and template, but since you're in IT I'm sure you won't have a problem: http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=18207

If numbers are staying in the high 200s/300s range over the next couple days, I would restart insulin on Thursday or Friday at a low dose--either 1u or .5u depending on how low he finally settles.
 
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