May have to re-home diabetic kitty. :(

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amandak

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I'm so broken hearted right now! I just got a promotion at work - I interviewed for the job months ago - before my kitty was diagnosed with diabetes. Now, the job is going to need me to travel starting in early Feb - and I don't have the finances to board my cat to ensure she'll get her injections reliably and safely....I'm going to be traveling a few days every week - and an extra $300 a month to board her 3 days a week just isn't in my budget. Plus, I don't want to have her alone so much - she's really friendly and people-oriented, and is super lovey and needy socially. I live in a really secure apartment complex, so having someone come into my home twice a day isn't really realistic (and I don't really have anyone that would be willing to do that).

The vet was hopeful that my kitty may go into remission (being on lantus) because we caught the diabetes super early (did labs two months in a row and caught when it just tipped her levels to a diabetic diagnosis).

Has anyone had to do this before? I hate that I'm in this situation - and I've called a few rescues locally (I'm in the Seattle area) and have pretty much been given a resounding NO... they're too full, and they don't want a diabetic cat - let alone an 11 year old diabetic cat. I can't even THINK about putting her down - but my parents suggested that I might need to consider. She's healthy, happy, and I LOVE this animal - she has many more years ahead of her. It was hard enough to think about her not being in my life - let alone not being alive :( :( :(

Can anyone suggest any ideas, groups, or possible solutions? I'm want whats best for her - she's my buddy (and has been since I rescued her from a puppy mill 11 years ago). I'm hoping for an angel that would be willing to meet her, and undoubtedly fall in love. She is awesome with other animals - dogs, cats, kids, you name it, she'll love it. *sigh* Really could use a ray of hope right about now - thanks for your feedback and ideas. This is definitely putting the holidays in perspective... you can't buy this kind of unconditional love. I've done rescue in the past, and I'm hoping I might have some good karma (or katma) saved up that could come to the rescue right about now...
 
oh amanda, we may have some hope for you. i've been on the lantus board since february and i've seen at least 35-40ish cats go off of insulin in that time.

we're also full of ideas on cats and getting care while you are gone.

are you hometesting yet? we really encourage that, personally, i think it's essential. cats are known to be the hardest animal to regulate on insulin and you can merrily go along giving the same dose and then it can be too much or not enough. so the same dose can bring about different responses over time.

what's the dose she's getting?
what are you feeding her?
what were the blood glucose numbers you got at the vet's?
when did she start getting insulin?

fill us in and we'll do our best to help you! don't abandon hope! it's far too soon for that! :YMHUG:
 
THANK YOU!! I am crossing my fingers and toes to find a positive solution for my kitty...

To answer the questions -

what's the dose she's getting? 4 units lantus 2 x daily
what are you feeding her? phased her off of royal canin indoor dry, and she's been on wet food. She didn't do well on raw - so she's on canned. Tried Welness, Weruva, BFF - still trying to figure out the best food for her tummy. She's happy as a clam with the canned food though!
what were the blood glucose numbers you got at the vet's? I don't have them handy - but can get them. She has had 1 glucose curve (that was on the novolin) - so the curve I do at home will be the first on the lantus.
when did she start getting insulin? Started insulin mid Oct. Started on Novolin for about 2 weeks, then switched to Lantus (after seeing a vet that specialized in feline diabetes).

I JUST got a glucose meter today for her, and will be doing a glucose curve likely tomorrow. Got a "one touch" ultra mini - the vet recommended the onetouch brand - said it was the closest reader for feline numbers on a human glucose meter. Any tips / suggestions for a first-timer on a glucose curve? I'm comfortable with injections and draws - but would welcome any advice from seasoned professionals!

Thank you for having such a positive outlook - I really appreciate it and hope that things can work out!
 
not just saying it to be nice, i really do think that there's a good option out there. we just need to zero in on what will work for you.

here's a good link with a lot of info. it's from the Lantus Tight Regulation insulin support forum - which is the group that follows the protocol for using Lantus that has a proven track record for getting many cats, especially newly diagnosed cats, off of insulin. http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=18139

that's a great meter and it's very reliable and accurate. several people use that one.

how much does she weigh?

when we got here punkin was on 3 units and i got a chorus of "OMG that's a big dose!" most diabetic cats get between 1 and 2 units to start with, but if she was on another insulin before starting on lantus that makes a difference in the dose. i really want you to be hometesting, though, so we can assess if this is a good dose for her. it becomes obvious pretty quickly when we see test numbers. often cats are stressed at the vet's and their BG numbers are higher there than at home.

so - you've got the meter, you've got the strips, i assume. can we help you get going on it?
 
Yep - got the meter (just unwrapped it) - and it came with 10 lancets for the lancing device - from your post, I'm guessing I'm missing the test strips. I'll pick them up first thing tomorrow (I'll hit the 24 hour walmart early).

As far as testing - the vet had told me to lance her ear, and then use vaseline to keep it from closing and just draw from that same cut throughout the day (hourly).
For a successful curve - is there a minimum number of draws / tests I should do? 5 different readings?

Also - I'm planning to take a reading before I feed her, then give her breakfast and take a reading just after that - then give her the insulin, and take a reading again. Then hourly? What would be the best way to do this, to get the best, most accurate results?

THANK YOU so much for your help - I have been feeling helpless and getting more and more scared... if I can get her diabetes under control (and hopefully have her OFF of insulin in the near future) - I should be able to keep her. That would be ideal - I love this little furball. She's been through so much with me... friends like her don't come around very often in our lifetimes.
 
has her BG been checked after you switched her off the dry food? some cats can be diet controlled just by switching from dry to low-carb canned food. i feel a little concern that (if i understand you correctly) she was on dry food when diagnosed and started on the insulin then has switched to the canned. i don't want to be alarming, but because some cat don't need insulin after they switch to low carb, i am aware that it can change the picture.

so . . . here's what i would suggest. on a table next to a sofa
set the meter with a strip barely in it (not engaged, just sitting there)
set a lancet device with a lancet in it that is ready to go
a tissue there.
some vaseline if you have any

have something to warm her ear - either a prescription bottle with some warm water in it or a rice sock (you can either put 1/4 cup of rice in an old clean cotton sock or tie it up in a hankie or piece of cotton and warm it in the microwave. not hot enough to burn, but warm enough that her ear will warm up.

capture your sweet girl (what's her name?), love her up, then set her between you and the sofa arm, facing out. if you're right handed, have her on your right side.

hold the warm item against her ear for a couple of minutes. a warm ear bleeds better than a cold ear. you can't hardly get blood if they are too cold. warm is good. talk sweet to her while you're doing that. then put it down.

put the tiniest slick of vaseline over the outside edge of her ear. you're aiming to poke between the vein and the edge of the ear, about a 1/4" strip along the outside between the tip and the folded part.

hold her right ear still with your left hand, don't let go of the ear and use your right hand to put the lancet device firmly against her ear on the outside edge and click the clicker thingie. that's what it's officially called, fyi. ;-)

if you see blood welling up, put down the lancet with your right hand, pick up the meter, push the strip all the way into the meter and wait until you see the blood drop symbol. then touch the sipping edge of the strip to the blood drop. i think it would beep when it has enough blood to test. i don't use that meter but i *think* all of them do that.

if you don't get a blood drop, you can apply a tiny bit of pressure, not enough to hurt, just enough to "dam" the vein for a moment between the poke and the body. you can also kinda "open" the poke or massage around it to try to get a little bit.

you can also reset the lancet device and give a second or third poke in near vicinity to the first one. hopefully that will get you some blood.

when you get a test, post it here. we want to know how many hours since the shot. lantus has a pattern and it matters where in the cycle the test # is.

also, one more question - are you giving shots 12 hours apart?



i was writing this long thing (sorry, i'm long-winded) while you were posting. yes, you need strips.
I'm going to disagree with your vet on how to hometest. that one poke will clot in minutes. we'll teach you how to do it - no worries. we've all done thousands here. you'll poke a new time each time. i'd hate to have to pick at a scab to get blood. ouch. it will hurt less to poke again.

we put on the vaseline (very thin sheen) before we poke. then the blood won't soak into the hair/skin and will bead up.

as far as timing - we test to make sure it's safe to shoot, feed and give the shot in that order. at first that took me 1/2 hour to do all of it, but now it's about 1 minute. if you test right before giving her the insulin in the morning, and you see less than 200, please post here and ask for advice before you give the shot. if no one is here, you can post on the Lantus Tight Reg forum - there's a lot of traffic there and someone will help you quickly.

if she's more than 200, go ahead and give the shot. then i'd suggest you test again 2 hours after the shot. that test tells us quite a bit.

when you head for the store in the morning, pick up the neosporin OINTMENT with pain relief as well. you'll be glad.
 
Welcome Amanda!!
I can't give you any advice, but I can say there are tons of angels on this board that are going to help you every step of the way. All you have to do is ask.
I felt just like you when I found out Baxter had FD, heart broken. So many people here have helped me with Baxter (DX Nov. 12th) he is currently on a no insulin trial. I owe it to everyone on FDMB!

Good Luck!

Jenn & Baxter
 
I don't have much advice, though IF it comes to you needing to find her a home or a foster home, contact the Seattle Animal Shelter. 206-386-7387 You want to speak with someone on the adoption line, because they can help you out a bit more than one of the officers. You certainly do not want to drop her off at the shelter, but they might be able to find her a foster home to go to, if its needed.


I live in Mountlake Terrace, so if you need any help, feel free to send me a note.

Sarah
 
Welcome,
This is totally worth a shot. (No pun intended!)
Some cats can definitely be food controlled especially since you caught it early and changed her food to low card wet right away. I am really wondering why such a high starting dose! I have to say "OMG that's a big dose!" Especially with the diet change and not monitoring (until now.) wet low carb food can make a difference of 100 points or more.

Happy testing. Not so sure about a prick staying open all day with vaseline on it. Blood clots on the inside as well as the outside? I have to stick Duncan every time but he gets lots of treats and if he wants treats he will just go lay in our testing area until I finally give in and give it to him with or without a test! :) He eats while I test.

I am a regular over on the Relaxed Lantus board. I will watch around for you and see how you're doing.
I would give it a shot if I were you, and just see what happens. Also here are people who adopt/foster FD cats, you just have to find them.

I love this board and I know you will too!!! :)
 
So before food and shot - she was 543. Just gave her the shot, and she's eating. Going to run it again in an hour.
 
Another option to consider: how about training her for traveling? Some cats enjoy it, once they learn there isn't a vet on the end!

First and foremost, the cat should be microchipped and several high resolution, quality photographs taken for identification purposes. All vaccines, particularly rabies, should be up to date.

To train/desensitize to travel:

Start by leaving the carrier out and open at all times, in a pleasant location - near a window, for example.
Spritz it with some Feliway (friendly facial pheromones).
Put the occasional toy in there, or some catnip.

Now, begin acclimating the cat to being in it for periods of movement.

Shut the door, lift it up, and move it a few feet.
Treat with low carb treats
Repeat several times during the day

Once that is tolerated fairly well, increase the distance a foot or so.
Repeat the process.

Add in going outside, then returning indoors.

Then add in placement in a car, then returning.

Add in turning on the car.

Add in a short distance.

Increase distance/time a little bit each week.
************************************************
Also, train the cat to accept a harness, in case you need to fly. A harness with a leash will be safest if the cat needs to be taken out of the carrier (ask if there is a small room in which this could occur, too, safer, even with a leash and harness), and allow extra time for the process.

In a car, you may want to use a larger carrier or crate, with room for a litterbox, water, and food, in addition to a place to rest.
 
don't retest in an hour - there's no point. it will simply show a food spike and strips are expensive enough that you're not going to want to waste them.

give it 2 hours.

i think that 543 confirms what i am thinking and sara is also mentioning. with a little kitty like that, and a high number, if the dose is too much there can be "bouncing" going on. the dose is pretty good-sized, the cat's BG goes low and then the cat's liver sends out an SOS or a 911 that says the cat's in need of being saved. the liver lets loose a flood of stored sugar and counter-regulatory hormones and the BG goes way high.

to put it in perspective - a non-diabetic cat will measure 40's-120's. we try to regulate cats to stay under about 250 or so. we start treating low numbers if we measure a 50, but we aren't concerned about hypo until they go under 40, and even then sometimes cats aren't symptomatic.

with lantus, earliest symptoms seem to include mental fogginess - cat staring off in space, or difficulty walking, or incredible hunger. if she is begging you to eat in an unusual way, test her and see what she is at.

it would be really helpful if you could call the vet today and find out what the BG numbers they measured were.

i'd like to see what others have to say, but my thought is we're going to want you to drop the dose tonight, depending on what numbers you pick up today.

for testing, i'd like to see another test 2 hours after the shot. i'm going to be gone for about an hour right about then but will check back in. in theory, the test in 2 hours should be just about the same as this last test, then lantus onsets and you'll see a dropping curve. if she is significantly lower in 2 hours, that's a flag that would confirm what i'm suspecting.

do you have karo or pancake syrup at home in case she goes low? and what's her name again?
 
btw, when you ask the vet for BG, see if you can get how many hours after the shot that measurement was taken. also if she was on lantus at that point or the novolog.

it would be helpful to know what date & dose you started the lantus also and the dates that changes were made in dose & to what dose, as well.

bjm, i am with you on that - i was thinking the same thing. what i've learned, amanda, is cats are far more portable than you think! i've now dragged punkin with me everywhere and while he's not keen on it, he's gotten used to it.
 
There are also the cutest carriers that people have for their cats on the planes. I was going to get one for Prince Duncan if we were going to be going back and forth to the vet a lot. I just searched around on google for pet carriers. I've seen them several times on the plane. They just go under the seat for the ride. I also used to have a small dog and I brought him on planes with me quite a bit. He was a stress ball about it, but it was better than leaving him or boarding him.
 
5 units Novolin - GC on 11/17
Shot & food administered at 7 a.m.

9 a.m. 302
10 a.m 263
11 a.m. 236
12 p.m. 275
1 p.m. 236
2 p.m. 275
3 p.m. 310
4 p.m. 323

Will be be critical to take the next measurement of the lantus at 2 hours, or could 2.5 hours work? I have an appt, but will reschedule if necessary.
 
when you get back is fine.

was she started at 1 unit and worked up, or what dose was she started at?
gotta take the hubby to work, be back.
 
I think I missed a few questions in this thread -

I'm giving her the doses 12 hours apart
as far as her being ravenous - she's been like that since day one. Also lots of excessive urination and drinking water. It seemed to get better, but she's still hungry (will get into the dog's food) and does pee a whole lot still.

She was also diagnosed with a hyperthyroid - they thought that was the only problem until she crossed the diabetic threshold in early Nov. She's on a pill for the thyroid as well.

Oh - and her name is Bebe. (pronounced Bee-bee). I've had her since she was about 5 weeks old, when I rescued her from a puppy mill. Everyone thought she was dead, and I was peering into the cage and she opened her big green eyes and blinked at me. They wound up giving her to me, and I got her back on her feet (I was a kennel tech at the time). Ever since then, she's LOVED everyone. She hasn't ever met a person that she hasn't loved, and other cats and dogs grow on her. :)
 
she may be having high numbers from the dog's food too. some cats are so carb sensitive that even a kibble or two can send up their BG. you'll want to prevent her from getting any more of that. she needs to be on low-carb canned cat food now for life, whether or not she remains on insulin, they are still diabetic, just possibly diet controlled.

with diabetes, we're trying to balance out 2 factors - the carbs they get and the dose of insulin that works on those carbs. we try to control as much as we can with the food so we're only tinkering with the dose. the more you control things the healthier the cat gets.

uncontrolled BG makes the cat hungry too. they might be eating a ton but their body can't utilize the nutrients because of the diabetes. as her numbers come down she won't be as hungry.

what i was referring to is some kind of unusual behavior that might signal her BG is getting too low. cats will sometimes try to feed themselves to bring up their BG if it is low.

the way lantus works (in an ideal situation) is that it onsets a couple of hours after the shot and begins to drop the BG down, reaching the lowest point somewhere mid-cycle (around 4-7 hours after shot) then coming up to the highest point at the next preshot. this pattern varies cat to cat. and if bebe's dose is too high and she's bouncing, she may have a low anywhere from 3 hours after the shot to a few hours later. we'd like to see how low she's getting on this dose, so if you can get a test when you get back (2-3 hrs post shot, we call that +2 or +3) and post it here. then as long as that's not too low, another one in a couple of hours. keep posting numbers and people will keep advising you. i've sent messages to a few people asking them to keep an eye on you as well.

i'm south of salem and have to pick up family at PDX about 2:30, so will be out for a few hours. there are many people who understand how lantus works and will be able to help you, however.

and i forgot to say AWESOME job getting the BG test! that's a big hurdle and ya made it! welcome to the vampire club! did it all go ok?
 
AManda:

Julie has to leave shortly and I need a few minutes to read your thread and also to test my kitty. I'll brb...I also have some suggestions for you.
 
Amanda: Welcome to FDMB and I hope we will see you soon in Lantus Tight Regulation where we can give you lots of info and suggestions. After that, you can decide which forum you want to be in with Bebe.

One of the first things we'd like to do is have you set up a Spreadsheet. Here is the link for the instructions: Create your Spreadsheet. It will allow you to enter all your numbers and link it to your posts so we can help you determine what you should do with the dose. If you have any problems getting it to work, please PM me (over under Gracie's picture to the right is a little box "PM". Click on that and you can send me a private message) and I'll help you do the SS. It only takes a few minutes.

I also suspect that BeBe might be getting too much insulin causing her to dive and bounce back up but the hometesting will help us see that. Here is a list of low carb foods (canned): Janet & Binky's food list. You want to try to get food below 5% to start with. It's unfortunate she doesn't like Wellness as many of us use the 4% varities routinely. While you are out getting the low carb foods, you might also want to pick up some of the 15-18% foods with gravy that are on the list. We like to be prepared for lower numbers so you need a little more canned food carbs/gravy to bring her BG up if it goes low.

Here is a link for lots of info on hometesting: Hometesting. Also, a great video for hometesting; it's how we learned and is classic:

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I also use a One Touch Ultra Mini and LOVE it. I order my strips off ebay....you can get them for half the price as in a store. I, personally, only buy from the toprated sellers and I usually don't get into the bidding for strips....I just look for "buy it now" where they are between $20-25/box of 50. I also make sure the boxes are undamaged, unopened and have expiration dates that are at least a few months out. I've never had any problems.

So let's get you started hometesting and filling in the Spreadsheet and then we can see what Bebe needs. Please let us know if you have any questions.
 
Welcome, Amanda -- and Bebe, as well.

I'm another one of the Lantus denizens that Julie asked to stop by.

FWIW, I live in a secure, doorman attended condo complex in the heart of Chicago. I'm also my cat, Gabby's, sole caretaker. While I don't travel a great deal, I do have a vet tech who comes in twice a day to take care of Gabby when I travel. I don't know if that might be an option for you, as well. There's likely someone from your vet's office that does petsitting to make a few dollars on the side.

What I would suggest is to take a deep breath. The good news is that you have a baseline of familiarity with Bebe's diabetes already. The less good news is that Lantus is very different than Novolin and there's going to be some re-learning involved. There are several starred, sticky notes on the top of the Lantus board. Those notes will help you understand about how to handle your insulin and the dosing protocol that we use. The front end of the learning curve is a bit overwhelming but, we will be there to answer your questions, lend you a hand, and help you figure it all out. You'll be a pro in no time.

I'm at work and will do my best to check in on you. Marje has posted info on home testing and getting a spreadsheet set up. Please let us know if you have questions.
 
Wow - you guys have all been so great!

Just did our second draw - 2.5 hours after the first draw. She has had food and a shot (and no dry dog kibble - I've been keeping that up and out of reach from her)

first draw - 543 (7:30 am)
draw 2 - 329 (10:08 a.m.)


Would you recommend another draw in an hour? Or should I wait two?
 
i'd like to see another one in an hourish, if you can do it.

don't be overwhelmed by all the info. it is a lot at the beginning but it truly isn't long until you'll simply know it. then taking care of bebe will be so much easier.

in the meantime, ask away.
 
first draw - 543 (7:30 am)
draw 2 - 329 (10:08 a.m.)
draw 3 - 313 (11:07 a.m.)
Next to be done around 12 or 12:30.

Should I just do them hourly / every 2 hours for the next while?

Do these results look indicative of the "bounce" that was mentioned earlier? Any thoughts on the numbers so far?
 
Amanda:

Good job testing. Let's get your numbers into perspective. Since we shoot every 12 hours, then the 12th hour becomes your AM preshot (AMPS) or if it's in the evening, it's your PM pre-shot (PMPS). We're assuming that you shoot within 10-15 minutes of that test (most of us test 10-15 mins BEFORE we shoot so if you know you shoot at 6:30, you're probably testing 6:20 or so).

Since we are all spread out over the world, we then use a system of counting hours since the shot to the next test. So, let's say you did her AMPS at 6:20 and shot at 6:30 am and then tested at 7:30 am; the 7:30 am test would be called her "+1". If you tested again at 10:30 a.m. then that number would be her "+4" as it is four hours since you gave her insulin. This is why it's really important we get that SS set up as soon as possible. It will be easier for you to keep track of the numbers and easier for us to see the trends. I recommend you take a quick peak at Gracie's Spreadsheet which is linked in my signature block (and also Gabby's and Punkin's) and you can see how the timing is done. Don't panic at the amount of testing and info on Gracie's and Gabby's SSs. Sienne and I are both testaholics and our kitties like to throw us curve balls so we test more.

For today, if you shot at 7:30 am when you got the 543, then 12:30 pm will be her +5. So when you report her next number, you can just state it as "+5 xxx". If you do the test at 12, it's +4.5.

Why don't you test at 12:30 and every couple hours so we can get a mini curve? It's a little too soon for us to tell if she is in a bounce....so, if possible, could you please see if you have time to do the SS? It's easier when you have just started testing then to wait and do it later and have to add all that data :-D
 
You do not need to be testing hourly. Testing every 3 hours, especially if your cat is in higher ranges, is more than sufficient. (Do not go by my cat's SS. I'm a testaholic due to having a cat that likes drama and taking bungee-type dives early in the cycle.) Testing every 3 hours is called a "mini" curve. A regular curve is testing every 2 hours.

I wouldn't worry about bounces at this point. A bounce occurs if a cat drops into lower numbers than what the kitty is used to or experiences a fast drop in BG numbers. As a result, the liver "panics" and dumps a stored form of glucose along with counterregulatory hormones into the bloodstream. As a result, numbers spike upward. This process is a normal, protective function of the liver. It is, however, quite annoying to those of us who are watching our cats' numbers since it can take up to 72 hours for a bounce to clear. The reason I suggest you not worry about bounces yet is because you don't have that much information on where Bebe's numbers are typically sitting. Over the next several days, you'll have a better sense of that.
 
can't tell yet. we're looking for the lowest point of the cycle, most cats that would be around +5-+6, or noon - 1 if you shot at 7am. but every cat is different. i think checking again around noon is great. when we've seen the lowest number, we'll know it because the next one will either hold steady or start to rise, then you don't need to test as often. personally, i'd skip to 3 hours and then again at preshot tonight. but different people do this differently.

i know punkin's patterns so well that i test him at +3 and +5-6 and then not again til the next shot time. in your case, we don't know bebe's patterns yet - that's what we're looking for.

great job so far! :YMHUG:

i leave by noon so someone else will give you a hand.

while i'm thinking of it, one thing you can do, especially if you see something that freaks you out and you want help RIGHT NOW is to go to the first post in this thread, click to edit that post, then edit the subject line and ask for help. only the subject line of the first posts appear on the main page, so if you change the subject line in a subsequent post it won't show up. i'll take a look and see if you have more info before i go.
 
haha we've all answered you at the same time. don't worry about the conflicting bits - the essence is the same. we know our own cats and everyone tells from their own experiences.

test again in a while and repost. and yes, the spreadsheet is what lets us see the big picture of what's going on.
 
I can't thank you all enough for your help through this process - I'm not a squeamish person, so the injections and all don't freak me out - it's just knowing that I'm doing it right, and having people that are so willing to help me understand what this all MEANS that is so valuable to me.

thanks_animated.gif
 
aw, that is so cute. no worries. we all found this site and others helped us just the same way. everyone is a volunteer. we're paying it forward/back and helping where we can.

the info is complex enough that you really need someone to hold your hand and point you in the right direction at the point you need it. that's something we can do for new people.

i'm running out so will check in with you when i get home, maybe 5:30ish. there's plenty of eyes on you to give you a hand if you need it. have a good afternoon amanda!
 
first draw - 543 (7:30 am)
DRAW 2 - 329 (10:08 a.m.)
DRAW 3 - 313 (11:07 a.m.)
DRAW 4 - 319 (12:33 pm.)
DRAW 5 - 301 (2:12 p.m.)

Next draw planned for about 4 p.m.


Just for comparison - this was her first GC on the Novolin on 11/17... she had a wierd spike around the same time, then it went down again.
9 a.m. 302
10 a.m 263
11 a.m. 236
12 p.m. 275
1 p.m. 236
2 p.m. 275
3 p.m. 310
4 p.m. 323
 
amandak said:
first draw - 543 (7:30 am)
DRAW 2 - 329 (10:08 a.m.)
DRAW 3 - 313 (11:07 a.m.)
DRAW 4 - 319 (12:33 pm.)
DRAW 5 - 301 (2:12 p.m.)

Next draw planned for about 4 p.m.
Click to expand...


let's see if we can get you to talk our lingo - I'm going use your example above and show you what I mean, the only missing element is what time you gave the insulin dose. So, I'm just going to assume that you gave her the shot around the time you took the first test. that would make the first test the amps - or am (morning) ps (preshot),

Then take your clock and instead of telling us the actual time, tell us how many hours since the amps did you test - in your example your second test was at 10 am, this is 2.5 hours after shot. You do this all the way up the 11th hour, then on the 12th hour, it is now night and time to give more insulin - so that would be pmps - pm (night) ps (preshot) and the clock starts over.

so your testing so far will look like this:

amps 543
+2.5 329
+3.5 313
+5 319
+6.5 301
+7.5 ____
+ 10 ____

pmps_____
+2 ____
+4_____


Does that make sense? As everyone is in a different time zone (I'm on the East Coast for example) and we don't know where you are, you may be on the West Coast which is 3 hours earlier for me - 8 am to you is 11 am to me. And if you are in Europe as many of the members are, well then 8 am is Noon or later for them.

Hopefully this helps
 
That definitely helps! Thank you!!


amps 543 (7:30 a.m. PT)
(10:08 a.m. PT) +2.5 329
(11:07 a.m. PT) +3.5 313
(12:30 p.m. PT) +5 319
(2:12 p.m. PT) +6.5 301
(4:27 p.m. PT) +8.5 307


(leaving the times in for my own reference - want to make sure I keep myself straight on the times and all. Are the data points giving anyone any indication of dosing issues?
 
At least for me, I'd like to see more than one cycle's worth of data. There's no way to know if these numbers are typical or atypical for Bebe. I wouldn't be comfortable jumping in and suggesting a dose change only to belatedly find out that today's numbers are higher than usual and increasing the dose would be ill advised. If you can get some tests in over the next day or two, that will help us to sort out how Bebe is doing on this dose of insulin.
 
Understandable - that makes sense! I wasn't sure if there might be a diabetic-cat-whisperer amongst you all :)

I'll probably be able to take the next curve on Sunday or Monday - I'll be around most of the day on one of those days, so I'll gather the data and put together a spreadsheet (as suggested earlier in this thread).

Have any of you personally had cats go into "remission" or had their diabetes controlled by diet alone after being on lantus? Is it just a luck-of-the-draw situation if your cat is controlled by diet, or is there a method to it all?

Again - I know I'm a broken record - but THANK YOU ALL for taking the time to share your insight, experience and expertise. It's so close to the holidays - I'm sure you have lots of things to do and people to see... that you're reaching out to help a stranger really says a lot about you all. You and your time are much appreciated -and I will definitely be passing along / paying forward the positivity and hope that you've given to me.
 
my cat has a tumor on his pituitary gland that has caused his diabetes. so he's not typical. we've had his tumor radiated and are hopeful that over the next few weeks he may go off of insulin. but honestly, even if that doesn't happen, treating the diabetes is not the big thing i felt it was in the beginning. i think marjorie & sienne have not had a cat go off of insulin, but we've all seen it happen many times. most people don't stay on this forum after their cat is off of insulin, but not all. we do have some folks who have stayed.

there's no way to know which cats will go off when you start. most of the time when people get here their cats are unregulated and things are a little crazy. often they are more in crisis-mode. but statistically speaking, cats who go on Lantus in the first month of being diagnosed and follow the protocol i mentioned, have an excellent percentage of remission.

we always tell people this is a marathon, not a sprint. i know i arrived in crisis mode and the first thing people said was to "breathe!" :lol:

you don't have to do a curve in order to have helpful information. i like to have a preshot test to make sure it's safe to give insulin. if you can get any tests tomorrow, all of it is helpful to see what's going on. get one before you go out the door or when you return, or get a right-before-bed test. i think of our spreadsheets as being like a jigsaw puzzle. the numbers going in on the spreadsheet fill out the picture and tell us what's going on. they don't need to be all at the same time, or all on the same day. and you don't need to do a zillion tests every day.

honestly, i'm amazed you've done such a great job getting tests today. i'm so glad you're not having a terrible time with getting blood from the pokes because sometimes that happens.

btw, if you picked up neosporin, slather some on tonight before you go to bed and her ears will heal overnight.

gotta go shoot the kitty! :-D
 
The poking has been a little tough at times - I've wasted a few of those strips, but cest la vie. Figure it's part of my learning curve!

A few general questions about the numbers and things that affect them as I take the blood and read the glucose:

- When I feed her (she's hungry throughout the day, but I feed her in the morning when I give her a shot, and then around when I eat dinner, maybe 7 - 8 hours later) - how does her food intake impact her glucose numbers? Will it cause a spike, or should it be a minimal bump. Do the numbers typically go up significantly?

- Is there a rule of thumb for feeding a cat that is on insulin? Should she always get food with her shots? Does it matter if she is fed before or after a shot in the morning?

- One of the main reasons I took Bebe to the vet was her excessive hunger and thirst. She STILL drinks a lot, and is pretty hungry. I've noticed her appetite slowly taper down, but she STILL pees a HUGE amount. Is this something common to diabetes, or might there be another issue at play? Could it be behavioral, since she was drinking and eating potentially as a side effect of the onset of diabetes. Any thoughts?

- Because of her excessive urination - there is a gross side effect where kitty litter sticks to her feet. :( I clean it off, but sometimes it gets between her toes and dries and seems to irritate her. She's not cleaning her feet herself. I read that lack of grooming is a side effect of diabetes. Has anyone else dealt with something similar? Any advice? I don't use clay (clumping) anymore, because that was just icky and would turn into cement practically. We use this wheat type kind, that's lightweight and absorbent - but it gets tracked around and sticks to her. I tried the crystal kind (I know about the dust issues) - and she peed too much for that - it would maybe last a week (when it was supposed to last a month). We use a top-load litter box now because she gets lazy in the box, and would let her rear hang out the entrance on occasion. Tried the round time with a stair / ramp into the box area, and she'd wind up peeing down the ramp (that took some skill!). I'm open to ideas - you guys seem to be a wealth of knowledge!!

THANK YOU! Have a great evening and holiday!
 
You always want to have food on board before.giving insulin. Test, feed, then shoot. I shoot while Cass is eating & he's so focused on the.food he seldom notices the shot. If she's sometimes picky or prone to throw up after eating you may want to wait to shoot until you know she's eaten and it stays down (1/2 hour or so).

Excessive hunger & thirst are part of diabetes & should.improve as her.blood sugar is regulated. For now, she's not processing everything she eats, because without insulin her body.can't use.the.food. Go ahead and.feed her more-that too should improve with time. There are other.conditioms that can cause excessive urination (hyper thyroid, is one I think), but I wouldn.t worry yet.

Food should cause an increase in bs.numbers but how much varies. ECID (every cat is different).

I know that's not all your questions-but it.s what I felt I could address.
 
amandak said:
The poking has been a little tough at times - I've wasted a few of those strips, but cest la vie. Figure it's part of my learning curve!

A few general questions about the numbers and things that affect them as I take the blood and read the glucose:

- When I feed her (she's hungry throughout the day, but I feed her in the morning when I give her a shot, and then around when I eat dinner, maybe 7 - 8 hours later) - how does her food intake impact her glucose numbers? Will it cause a spike, or should it be a minimal bump. Do the numbers typically go up significantly? in general we like to give most of the food with the shot and in the first 4 hours or so after. that lets the carbs work with the insulin while the insulin is at its strongest. most of us don't feed after +6, but some people find their cats do better with a tiny snack late in the cycle. this will be the kind of thing that you'll want to figure out how bebe does with all of it. usually we like to not feed at all in the 2 hours prior to the test at shot time because the food will likely cause a spike in numbers. how much depends upon how many carbs in the food and how sensitive bebe is to carbs. some cats seem to be more sensitive than others. punkin weighs 13+ lbs and i give him 1 can of fancy feast low carb food with each shot and 1/2 can at +3.

you have a couple of variables you can control with diabetes - the carbs (food) and the insulin dose. if you can keep one variable the same while you change the other you'll be able to tell what works. so most of us try to feed pretty much the same schedule, same amounts all the time then tinker with the insulin dose to find what works best.

- Is there a rule of thumb for feeding a cat that is on insulin? Should she always get food with her shots? Does it matter if she is fed before or after a shot in the morning? we test the BG, prep the food dish, prep the insulin syringe, put the food dish down and while punkin's face is sucking up the food, give him his shot. he doesn't even notice any more.

- One of the main reasons I took Bebe to the vet was her excessive hunger and thirst. She STILL drinks a lot, and is pretty hungry. I've noticed her appetite slowly taper down, but she STILL pees a HUGE amount. Is this something common to diabetes, or might there be another issue at play? Could it be behavioral, since she was drinking and eating potentially as a side effect of the onset of diabetes. Any thoughts? i'd blame the uncontrolled diabetes for all of that. as her numbers come down all of that should improve. i don't know much about hyper-t though, so don't know what role that plays.

- Because of her excessive urination - there is a gross side effect where kitty litter sticks to her feet. :( I clean it off, but sometimes it gets between her toes and dries and seems to irritate her. She's not cleaning her feet herself. I read that lack of grooming is a side effect of diabetes. Has anyone else dealt with something similar? Any advice? I don't use clay (clumping) anymore, because that was just icky and would turn into cement practically. We use this wheat type kind, that's lightweight and absorbent - but it gets tracked around and sticks to her. I tried the crystal kind (I know about the dust issues) - and she peed too much for that - it would maybe last a week (when it was supposed to last a month). We use a top-load litter box now because she gets lazy in the box, and would let her rear hang out the entrance on occasion. Tried the round time with a stair / ramp into the box area, and she'd wind up peeing down the ramp (that took some skill!). I'm open to ideas - you guys seem to be a wealth of knowledge!!

some people use the rubbermaid storage boxes as a litterbox. i've seen people cut an opening out of the long side for the cat to enter. some of them have high enough sides that it eliminates the peeing over the side. i use wood stove pellets for litter - they are comparable (maybe identical) to Feline Pine. some people use the Breeze litterbox. it has reusable pellets that you can rinse off that are on top of a grate. the urine flows through into a tray underneath. there is an absorbent pad for the tray. one plus to that is if you are testing for ketones (a serious problem that we recommend cats in higher numbers are checked for regularly) you need fresh urine and you can just leave out the pad and dip the ketone test strip into the tray. if you are interested in that Petco carries them and last i heard there was a $25 coupon online for the Breeze.

THANK YOU! Have a great evening and holiday!
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You too! :-D
 
I had to travel with my youngest cat. He was 3 days old when I got him. I had to dropper feed him every hour for months. That meant bringing him places with me. Carrying him like a baby in the mall. Putting him in a sling carrier (before he was mobile). Then finding places that took pets.

Several hotels will accomadate you if you explain the situation, show them a crate with a bed, little box and food in it and tell them the cats doesnt leave the crate.
 
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