Max and Elise
- Thread starter tiffmaxee
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MommaOfMuse
Member Since 2010
Okay so let me make sure I've got this correct.
a.m. preshot = unknown
+6=214
pmps =337
right?
Okay when you say he ate an hour and a half ago, where is that in relationship to his evening shot? Before or after?
Right now with just one day of partial testing doesn't tell you much except that at 337 he was high enough to safely give insulin to in the first place.
I can truly sympathize about needing to maintain trust with a less than cooperative cat. I have 3 diabetics currently, 1 OTJ 3+ years, 1 on a mere .1u and 1 on 1.25u all were adopted as diabetic. So not only did I have to treat their diabetes I had to build trust and a relationship with them. Yet all 3 will come running to their test spots when called because they associate that annoying ear poke with food. A couple things are key...TREATS any low carb treat that Max finds irresistible will work..For mine Autumn its chicken bites, for Casey its sardines and Maxwell its a good brushing. The other is your attitude if you are thinking "He's gonna hate me for this " he's gonna pick up on it and react. If you go into as this is what needs to be done so its going to happen. He'll read that in your body language too.
In the beginning you test more than you will once you learn his unique pattern. Some cats nadir as early as +3-4, others as late as +7-8 most nadir +5-6. It isn't until you know where Max falls before you can know for sure your testing close enough to be hitting his nadir. All nadir really means is the lowest point. So without knowing where he starts at you can't know if that's the lowest point at +6, or even going down.
Mel and The Fur Gang
a.m. preshot = unknown
+6=214
pmps =337
right?
Okay when you say he ate an hour and a half ago, where is that in relationship to his evening shot? Before or after?
Right now with just one day of partial testing doesn't tell you much except that at 337 he was high enough to safely give insulin to in the first place.
I can truly sympathize about needing to maintain trust with a less than cooperative cat. I have 3 diabetics currently, 1 OTJ 3+ years, 1 on a mere .1u and 1 on 1.25u all were adopted as diabetic. So not only did I have to treat their diabetes I had to build trust and a relationship with them. Yet all 3 will come running to their test spots when called because they associate that annoying ear poke with food. A couple things are key...TREATS any low carb treat that Max finds irresistible will work..For mine Autumn its chicken bites, for Casey its sardines and Maxwell its a good brushing. The other is your attitude if you are thinking "He's gonna hate me for this " he's gonna pick up on it and react. If you go into as this is what needs to be done so its going to happen. He'll read that in your body language too.
In the beginning you test more than you will once you learn his unique pattern. Some cats nadir as early as +3-4, others as late as +7-8 most nadir +5-6. It isn't until you know where Max falls before you can know for sure your testing close enough to be hitting his nadir. All nadir really means is the lowest point. So without knowing where he starts at you can't know if that's the lowest point at +6, or even going down.
Mel and The Fur Gang
tiffmaxee
Member Since 2013
Max is not food oriented. For a while he really liked Whole Life Freeze Dried Chicken but not so much now. Then it was Vets Best Hairball Remedy but that doesn't do it so much. I give one or the other after his gel cap with his pills followed with a vsby food chaser. Right now he is getting freeze dried salmon after ear pricks but it really isn't so good for him with pancreatitis. I don't want to give him more than a couple a day. Between diabetes and pancreatitis I am so limited in what to try. He is a picky eater.
Max ate about 1 1/2 hours before the insulin. He is best when he gets small amounts of food often. So he free feeds.
Max ate about 1 1/2 hours before the insulin. He is best when he gets small amounts of food often. So he free feeds.
MommaOfMuse
Member Since 2010
Just took a look at Max's spreadsheet. Great Job on starting to get those preshot tests in that will really help to get a better picture on how Max is doing on the insulin. Yay!!!
Wonder if its a name thing my Max isn't food driven either but would crawl over broken glass for a good brushing so when he was on Lantus and I was testing him a lot he got an extended brushing for his special treat. Also mine all dislike actual pet treats but will rip your arm off for human food. So Autumn and Casey get just plain raw chicken breast pieces for their treats. These also work great to slip them meds. I just cut a little slit in them, pop in the pill and they gobble them up.
Mel and The Fur Gang
Wonder if its a name thing my Max isn't food driven either but would crawl over broken glass for a good brushing so when he was on Lantus and I was testing him a lot he got an extended brushing for his special treat. Also mine all dislike actual pet treats but will rip your arm off for human food. So Autumn and Casey get just plain raw chicken breast pieces for their treats. These also work great to slip them meds. I just cut a little slit in them, pop in the pill and they gobble them up.
Mel and The Fur Gang
hollyall
Member Since 2011
Yes, good job Elise. I think anyone wld also tell you there's a measure of patience involved with testing. Over time Max has gotten so much better about it, and I've gotten a lot better at it too. In the beginning, I never, never thought it would happen and have shed a few tears over it. I'm squeamish, so poking ears and giving shots has been really hard for me, not hard to learn so much, just hard for me to do. Anyway, it's gotten a lot better for both of us.
tiffmaxee
Member Since 2013
Re: Max and Elise Dosing Question
My Max won't eat human food either. At one point there was a Trader Joe's salmon he liked but they discontinued it before I did much damage as it isn't good for pancreatitis. He used to let Tiffany push him away from his food bowl. He preferred dry food but he gained weight and got pancreatitis from that and likely Tiffany being so sick. The only time he would eat well was if I turned my back a second and he got some of he food. Since she's been gone and the change to canned food "Picky" is his middle name.
So I spoke with my vet. The good news is I don't need to haul Max in to the vet tomorrow. He did say to up his insulin a little. Based upon how quickly he responded the first go around, he wants me to give him .5 in the morning and .25 at night. Now I know you all disagree with this method. Sooo, how do you even out that kind of dosing? Do I measure .5 and get rid of a drop or so each dose or do I try the mixed bag? I swear I managed Epogen fine but insulin is CRAZY to dose.
Thanks to the human owners of Maxes for your help. (Everyone else too of course)
My Max won't eat human food either. At one point there was a Trader Joe's salmon he liked but they discontinued it before I did much damage as it isn't good for pancreatitis. He used to let Tiffany push him away from his food bowl. He preferred dry food but he gained weight and got pancreatitis from that and likely Tiffany being so sick. The only time he would eat well was if I turned my back a second and he got some of he food. Since she's been gone and the change to canned food "Picky" is his middle name.
So I spoke with my vet. The good news is I don't need to haul Max in to the vet tomorrow. He did say to up his insulin a little. Based upon how quickly he responded the first go around, he wants me to give him .5 in the morning and .25 at night. Now I know you all disagree with this method. Sooo, how do you even out that kind of dosing? Do I measure .5 and get rid of a drop or so each dose or do I try the mixed bag? I swear I managed Epogen fine but insulin is CRAZY to dose.
Thanks to the human owners of Maxes for your help. (Everyone else too of course)
MommaOfMuse
Member Since 2010
Honestly I would just shoot .5u on both shots. Keep getting your preshots and midpoint tests and see how he does on that. If he starts getting too low then maybe try skinnying it up. But at least that way you'll know his dose is between .25 & .5
Mel and The Fur Gang
Mel and The Fur Gang
tiffmaxee
Member Since 2013
I have gave Max a drop less than .5 starting yesterday since his numbers are still high. I tried to test this morning before his shot and the meter didn't read error but it looked like there might not have been as much blood as usual. Would that make the number higher or lower? It was 376. Thanks.
MommaOfMuse
Member Since 2010
Yes with some meters you can get some strange readings if you get too much or too little blood. What I do if I get a funky reading or one I think might be suspect is simply retest.
Mel and The Fur Gang
Mel and The Fur Gang
tiffmaxee
Member Since 2013
Thanks. Since it was hard to get blood this time as I tried first with a 31 lancet instead of the 25g needle and I poked him too many times, I'll let it go and see what happens at Nadir. I usually do that +6 but would it be a good idea to try at either +4 or +7 in case his Nadir isn't mid cycle? If so which should I try first. I'm only going to do one of them and then test tonight before insulin. Thanks again.
MommaOfMuse
Member Since 2010
Just pick one for today and then try for the other tomorrow. In fact you could test at different times every day which helps complete the picture of how the insulin works for him throughout the day rather than trying for a curve where you test every two hours for 12 hours between shots.
Mel and The Fur Gang
Mel and The Fur Gang
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