Marley, new diabetic, AMPS 593 +5 497

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marleyboy

marleyboy

Member Since 2021
Hello everyone! I stumbled across this forum today and I realized how wonderful and helpful the community is here. So first off I would like to say thank you for your kindness and willingness to help with such a tedious issue!

My kitty's name is Marley, and he was diagnosed with DM a few months ago. I am in medical school, and until this week have not had the time to really figure out what he needs and how to manage his diabetes best.

I started with 3 units of the Lantus pen BID, and his food intake was incredibly inconsistent because of conflicts with my schedule and desperation to get him to eat enough that I was comfortable giving him his insulin. I bumped him to 4 units about a month ago, and it seemed to lessen his symptomatic behavior, however it wasn't until this week that I started to really stay on top of testing his blood sugar. It became apparent that the 4 units and limited feeding were not doing enough whenever he peed on my bed with me laying in it only a couple nights ago. That was extremely abnormal behavior for him and now with more time on my hands I am committed to figuring it out.

Yesterday we began only giving him his protein rich food, and he does not like it very much. His blood sugar started at around 400. We gave him his usual 4 units and hoped he would eat a sufficient amount of food. I did not write down the numbers like I should have throughout the day, but it didn't move far from 300. We tested his sugar later that night before feeding him again and giving him his second dose, and his blood sugar was 78. That was extremely alarming. We gave him treats and did not give him his second dose because it seemed like the wrong thing to do. Woke up this morning and it was up to almost 600.

I am so puzzled and new to this and I would be so gracious for any help or insight you guys can offer.

Thank you in advance, and happy hump day!

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Welcome to you and Marley. We can help but need a bit more info and a spreadsheet. Are you feeding only wet food? Any idea the carb %? Which foods is he eating? Are you using a human or pet meter? Are you using lantus or Levimir?
 
Thank you! I am feeding dry food. I was feeding about half and half carb rich and protein rich, because he simply would not eat the protein rich food, but now I am doing about a cup a day of IAMS high protein :
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I am using a pet meter- iPet Pro
Lantus insulin


Also I am working on the spreadsheet now!

Thanks so much

Brittany and Marley
 

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Ok. We need you to set up a signature with all that great info and our spreadsheet. We use two dosing methods here and if you feed dry food you need to follow SLGS. We find feeding all wet low carb foods gives a better chance at regulation and remission but you need to feed what works for you. if you decide to switch to all canned or raw you will likely see dramatic changes so if you want to try that let us know so we can help.

Here’s the info on our methods.

https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/thr...-low-go-slow-slgs-tight-regulation-tr.210110/

I just saw you are working on the ss. Thanks.
 
If you decide to switch to wet food and he will cooperate you can get an auto feeder for while you are away from home.
 
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Welcome to the site, Brittany. Your Marley has such a pretty face and I love his eyes. This group will be a great help to you. Once you get your spreadsheet and signature set up the folks here can really dive in to help.
 
I forgot to mention something that is helpful as well. Please try to start a new post everyday. Look at how the others "title" their post. For instance, tomorrow your post could look something like this:

7/1, Marley, 400 AMPS

The AMPS is the test you do right before you feed and dose in the morning. Anyway, we will get to all that later. Good luck.
 
Thank you so much for your quick help! And thank you for the feedback on my post title.

I am so grateful to have come across a community that is so knowledgeable and giving. Upon reviewing the SLGS protocol (because currently using dry food), I noticed it advises a human meter? I was thankfully given a iPet Pro meter from a friend, so that's what I have been using. Is it necessary to buy a human one as well?

Also upon looking for wet foods online, I am curious what is the go-to? In both quality and affordability. I am in school, and my money is not really mine if you know what I mean. I am living off of loans, and I would love to figure out a great routine with him that is both affordable and conducive to a possible remission someday. If more expensive options right now are what would likely give the best result long term, then I am open minded to that. I am kind of just lost right now, and I would love to make some progress on it before school starts back in a month and I am not really home much at all again.

Another thing I am wondering- My Lantus SoloStar pen that the vet originally prescribed does not allow for small dosage increments. Would it be more beneficial to get vials of insulin and draw it up myself? I find it easier to get access to syringes rather than single screw-on needles anyways. Would I need to go to the vet for that switch?

Sorry for bombarding with questions! I really appreciate the patience I have been shown



Brittany and Mars
 
You can go buy U-100 syringes with half unit markings and draw from the pen.
Those test strips look expensive to use
Do you live in the US?
You can go to Walmart and get a Relion Prime human meter forc9 dollars
17.88 for 100 test strips
Just take the cap off the pen and use a U100 syringes and pull the insulin out of the pen!
syringe-in-pen-pic-jpg.45006
 
marleyboy said:
Thank you so much for your quick help! And thank you for the feedback on my post title.

I am so grateful to have come across a community that is so knowledgeable and giving. Upon reviewing the SLGS protocol (because currently using dry food), I noticed it advises a human meter? I was thankfully given a iPet Pro meter from a friend, so that's what I have been using. Is it necessary to buy a human one as well?

Also upon looking for wet foods online, I am curious what is the go-to? In both quality and affordability. I am in school, and my money is not really mine if you know what I mean. I am living off of loans, and I would love to figure out a great routine with him that is both affordable and conducive to a possible remission someday. If more expensive options right now are what would likely give the best result long term, then I am open minded to that. I am kind of just lost right now, and I would love to make some progress on it before school starts back in a month and I am not really home much at all again.

Another thing I am wondering- My Lantus SoloStar pen that the vet originally prescribed does not allow for small dosage increments. Would it be more beneficial to get vials of insulin and draw it up myself? I find it easier to get access to syringes rather than single screw-on needles anyways. Would I need to go to the vet for that switch?

Sorry for bombarding with questions! I really appreciate the patience I have been shown

I don't know where in the world you live but if you live in the US the Fancy Feast Classic Pate is affordable and low carb. Keep in mind you will need a medium carb food and a high carb Fancy Feast for those days when Marley goes low. I use only the Fancy Feast because I can afford it and it is very popular with a lot of folks on the site. Only the pate is low carb (I think) so use that for general feedings. I'm going to try and attach a very helpful chart in regards to wet cat food and the carb content: file:///C:/Users/Summernole/Desktop/CatFoodProteinFatCarbPhosphorusChart.pdf. If you can't open it let me know and I'll try to find another way to attach it.

Keep in mind that with a diabetic cat you want to transition to only wet food. No dry is acceptable but if you have been feeding dry then you need to slowly transition off of it. If you are currently feeding dry food you need to be on the SLGS protocol. A human meter is recommended. You can get a fairly inexpensive ReliOn Prime meter at Walmart and the test strips are only around $34 for 200. I have not heard of the iPet Pro meter but wonder if the strips are a lot more expensive.

Most of us using the Lantus use the pens but we use them with the syringes that have 1/2 unit markings because you will soon learn that dose increases and decreases are usually based on .25 units so you need the half unit markings to help determine the increases and decreases. You will still be "eyeballing" with the .25 but much easier than with syringes that only have whole unit markings. I use the UltiCare Vet Rx U-100, 3/10 cc, 31 gauge, 8mm with 1/2 unit marking syringes but other use different ones. You can get the SoloStar pens, to use with syringes, at Mark's Marine in Canada. They have very reasonable prices. I was fortunate enough to find a local pharmacist, here in Florida, that sold me five pens for about $99. They will last me a long time.

Don't worry about the questions. I am fairly new on this site so I don't give dosing advice but can help in other areas. I'm sorry but I am really tired and will leave you in the good hands of others. My Susie had an exciting day of low, safe numbers but I had to test and feed often to make sure she was safe. Again, welcome. I think you will be so happy you joined this site, Brittany.
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. Their 30 unit/0.3ml syringes come with half unit markings. They're $12.58 for a box of 100.
These are not available on line you have to go into the store for these with a script

There are also several brands on www.adwdiabetes.com selling u100 syringes with half unit marks - BD, Ulticare, Sure Comfort, Care Point Vet etc.


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4 units is an awfully large dose , can you please set up your signature and spreadsheet so we can help Marley
It is a good idea to set up your signature, it's at the end of everyone's post in gray

Click on your name upper right hand corner , a drop down will appear , tap in signature , fill out info
  • On the left, under Settings, Click on Signature. This is where you will put information that helps us give you feedback. There is a limit of two lines which may include two links; you may separate pieces with commas, dashes, | etc. This is where you paste the link for your spreadsheet, once it is set up.
  • Add info we need to help you:
    • Caregiver & kitty's name
    • DX: Date
    • Name of Insulin (do not include dose or frequency)
    • Name of your meter
    • Diet: "LC wet" or "dry food" or "combo"
    • Dosing: TR or SLGS or Custom (if applicable)
    • DKA or other recent health issue (if applicable)
    • Acro, IAA, or Cushings (if applicable)
    • Spreadsheet link. Please put the signature link on the bottom line of your signature information, on its own, so it is easy to find.
    • Please do not put any information about your location in the signature for security reasons. If you wish to add your country location, please add it to your profile.
Be sure to click the 'Save Changes' button at the bottom. If you need help urgently it is important we know these things at a glance. We don’t want to waste valuable time finding out information.
 
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/how-to-create-a-spreadsheet.241706/
Here is the link to set up your spreadsheet
It's the only way we can help you out with dosing is by setting up his SS so we can see how the lantus is working and how low he is dropping and when
Take a look at other members spreadsheet to get an idea
If you need help we have 2 members who would be more than happy to set it up for you
They will send you a private message to ask you some information


We increase or decrease by 0.25 units
You could be missing his a good dose for him by increasing by full units

Please read about how Lantus works
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/forums/lantus-basaglar-glargine-and-levemir-detemir.9/
 
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Any dry food is high in carbs
Most of us feed fancy feast classic pate or friskies pate
Under 10 % carbs
Most of these are either 2 or 3 percent carbs
If you do try to switch to all wet food you have to do it slowly plus you will need to monitor him closely because getting rid of dry food can drop him by 100 points
Here is the food chart we use
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/dr-pierson-new-food-chart.174147/
 
You don’t need to use a human meter but the test strips are so much cheaper and the methods we use were formatted using human meters as pet meters did not exist at the time. Pet meters read higher than human ones. Human meters are really cheap. That being said many use pet meters because their vets insist. My vet had ne Er used a human meter but was totally fine with it.
 
Hello and welcome.
marleyboy said:
His blood sugar started at around 400. We gave him his usual 4 units and hoped he would eat a sufficient amount of food. I did not write down the numbers like I should have throughout the day, but it didn't move far from 300. We tested his sugar later that night before feeding him again and giving him his second dose, and his blood sugar was 78. That was extremely alarming. We gave him treats and did not give him his second dose because it seemed like the wrong thing to do. Woke up this morning and it was up to almost 600.
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The spreadsheet for yesterday should show 4 in the AM units cell. Most meters will keep a couple weeks of data in their memory, so you should be able to retrieve anything you didn't write down. In the PM cell, it should show 78 and zero or "skip" for the units, as you didn't give insulin. Good instincts by the way! Since you are feeding dry food and following SLGS for dosing, his dose must be reduced when he goes below 90 per SLGS. We'll be able to help you more when there is more data in the spreadsheet.
 
Wow thank you so much for all of that great information Diane, Wendy, Summer and Elise!

I am going to be more thorough with the spreadsheet, as well as look into the syringes, wet food/protocol, auto feeder, and human meter today.

I am going to start a new post for today as advised- his AMPS is 452 (about 100 lower than yesterday).
 
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