Mario’s spreadsheet

Vannecheta

Member Since 2018
Hello,

Can someone help me analyze Mario’s spreadsheet?
Why did Mario seemed to do better when he was in the 5 and 4 units of Lantus (October/November) and suddenly the glucose levels started to go up even with 5.5/6.5 units of insulin? (December)

He was doing good at the end of October and all November. I even started not testing in midday. But suddenly his numbers started to get higher. I don’t understand why.
 
Are you following tight regulation or start low go slow? You can get information about both methods in the stickies. Depending on which method you are using, dosing advice will differ. I would recommend holding a dose for at least 6 cycles (tight regulation) or 7 days (start low go slow), unless Mario would drop below 68. Then you reduce the dose and hold again (unless he would drop to low). Every cat is different, but usually a +2 test (2 hours after the insulin shot) will give you a good idea of whether he is going to drop quickly that cycle or not. Try to post your updated numbers in your title and people will help.
 
Hi,

I am following the tight regulation. I started 6.5 units yesterday so Tuesday I will go up or down? Meaning 3 days/6 cycles?
 
Both Tight Regulation and Start Low Go Slow mean testing each and every preshot number, both AM and PM. I don't see that. In addition TR, requires at least one other test each AM and PM cycle. And it can take six cycles for the depot to fill so you can see what a dose is doing. It's too early to suggest what to do next. We need to see the data first. Patience.:bighug:
 
Both Tight Regulation and Start Low Go Slow mean testing each and every preshot number, both AM and PM. I don't see that. In addition TR, requires at least one other test each AM and PM cycle. And it can take six cycles for the depot to fill so you can see what a dose is doing. It's too early to suggest what to do next. We need to see the data first. Patience.:bighug:

Ok, but what do you mean by “I don’t see that”? I have the AM and PM pre shots numbers in the spreadsheet. I’ve testing almost every day at least twice a day before the insulin shot.
 
There seem to be days of missing data. If I look at the date column, there are only 10 days /rows of data but today is the 23rd. That's less than half the days. TR requires a minimum of 4 tests per day. If you can only follow SLGS due to testing limitations, that's OK too.
 
There seem to be days of missing data. If I look at the date column, there are only 10 days /rows of data but today is the 23rd. That's less than half the days. TR requires a minimum of 4 tests per day. If you can only follow SLGS due to testing limitations, that's OK too.

Yes, I try to be as consistent as I can, but I have crazy days and testing can be hard some days. That is why you don’t see every single day in there . 10 cats, 4 dogs, 5 tortoises, 1 rabbit, and 3 kids certainly keep me busy.
 
We all can appreciate a challenging schedule and demands on your time. However, we are very data driven. If you don't have information to help us to help you with dosing, it would be irresponsible for us to make suggestions about dosing. As I keep nagging, you need to test every single day at every single shot time. Without that test data, you have no idea whether it's safe to give Mario any insulin. Frankly, this isn't trivial. It's not OK to shoot blind. To be blunt, you could kill your cat if you gave a shot and his BG was lower than you were aware of or you didn't get any subsequent PM tests.

The other issue is that you are not shooting the same amount of insulin on a consistent basis. Further, you have been raising doses by 0.5u and not 0.25u. It's entirely possible that what you are concerned about is due to your having raised the dose too much.
 
We all can appreciate a challenging schedule and demands on your time. However, we are very data driven. If you don't have information to help us to help you with dosing, it would be irresponsible for us to make suggestions about dosing. As I keep nagging, you need to test every single day at every single shot time. Without that test data, you have no idea whether it's safe to give Mario any insulin. Frankly, this isn't trivial. It's not OK to shoot blind. To be blunt, you could kill your cat if you gave a shot and his BG was lower than you were aware of or you didn't get any subsequent PM tests.

The other issue is that you are not shooting the same amount of insulin on a consistent basis. Further, you have been raising doses by 0.5u and not 0.25u. It's entirely possible that what you are concerned about is due to your having raised the dose too much.

So sorry to read that I cannot be helped with the data I have. Just to know, how many continuous days of data are needed in order to start being helped?
Thanks so much
 
You've added information to your signature line. Perfect! That really helps. A few other things to help you out - and please understand that we are all doing our best to give you advice to keep you sane, your cat healthy, and get you headed in the right direction with his numbers.

I absolutely understand the problem with consistency. In the house right now, I have 6 cats we claim as our own. Mala is on potassium and low carb/low phosphate food, Gary is on hyperthyroid medication. We also have Rosie, Castor, Serendipity, and Zadok, who are all young, spry, and utterly fascinated by the food given to the elderly.

Add to that, we have two foster boys who WE HOPE will be eventually homed elsewhere. One of them is on anti-anxiety medication. (Darmok and Jalad)

Then there are the 2 - 3 outdoor kitties, who need regular feeding, heaters warmed up in winter, and tending to the wounds one of them inflicts on himself. Poor Brighton continually has open sores around his neck, which need cleaning, treatment, and care daily.

We work full time, have a son who is in college full time, and lots of other things going on, too.

So here's the advice:

1. Test and shoot at regular 12 hour intervals and don't change the dose for at least 6 cycles UNLESS Mario shows mid-cycle numbers (between +3 and +7) that are under 50. If he does, you need to immediately reduce the dose. If his numbers mid-cycle stay the same as they have been, hold the dose and let the insulin depot fill.

2. No one will be able to advise you until you have at least 6 stable cycles on the same dose with at least 2 tests per cycle. Ideally, that would be pre-shot AM and PM, and one test around nadir. If your kids are at home during the holiday, teach them how to test Mario. My son was getting bg tests for Mala when he was only 9, so it can be done.

3. Consistency is key with lantus. 12 hour cycles are part of how this works. If a 7:30 AM test and feed time works for you, then hold that time for the PM cycle. Most diabetic kitties want mini-meals around mid-cycle, if possible, so you can give small meals to Mario if you can do that separate from the rest of the cats. I know this is hard. We currently have a dog crate in our living room to separate the foster boys at meal time, to make sure one gets medication and the other does not.

4. Please start using the posting protocol when you write on the board. The name of the cat, the date, the AMPS value, then updates as you can get them.

5. Finally, unless the FF with gravy is low in carbs, don't feed that. Gravy = high carb values. Have it on hand if you start to see hypo numbers - under 40 is a grave concern - but feed him something low in carbohydrates. I'm linking Dr. Pierson's food chart to this post. You want to look for carb percentages ideally under 9, but lower is better. I currently give Yemala food with a carb value of 2%; all the gravy food I see on the chart by Fancy Feast are what we would consider medium carb values. Nine Lives, which isn't a high quality food, offers pate with values under the maximum for a diabetic cat, and it's comparatively inexpensive. Mala ate that, until she developed CKD and started needing a food low in phosphates.

https://catinfo.org/docs/CatFoodProteinFatCarbPhosphorusChart.pdf

So the short answer is, with adequate testing, we can start advising within 3 days. We're coming into the holidays, so I'm hoping that you'll be home and can start working regular test and feeding schedules into what I KNOW is a busy and stressful time. I can't tell you how many times I have had to be late to a fun dinner with friends because someone needed to be home to give Mala her insulin dose and feed her. Or how many times my husband has to drop in from work to get a mid-cycle test. But again - put the numbers in the subject line and start a new thread every day, updating it as you go. If you have a question or concern that needs help, use the question mark on the subject line. Link the previous day's thread into the first post of each day.

You've got this. You've found this board, you're managing a household of so many animals, you love your Mario. You can do this.
 
Last edited:
You've added information to your signature line. Perfect! That really helps. A few other things to help you out - and please understand that we are all doing our best to give you advice to keep you sane, your cat healthy, and get you headed in the right direction with his numbers.

I absolutely understand the problem with consistency. In the house right now, I have 6 cats we claim as our own. Mala is on potassium and low carb/low phosphate food, Gary is on hyperthyroid medication. We also have Rosie, Castor, Serendipity, and Zadok, who are all young, spry, and utterly fascinated by the food given to the elderly.

Add to that, we have two foster boys who WE HOPE will be eventually homed elsewhere. One of them is on anti-anxiety medication. (Darmok and Jalad)

Then there are the 2 - 3 outdoor kitties, who need regular feeding, heaters warmed up in winter, and tending to the wounds one of them inflicts on himself. Poor Brighton continually has open sores around his neck, which need cleaning, treatment, and care daily.

We work full time, have a son who is in college full time, and lots of other things going on, too.

So here's the advice:

1. Test and shoot at regular 12 hour intervals and don't change the dose for at least 6 cycles UNLESS Mario shows mid-cycle numbers (between +3 and +7) that are under 50. If he does, you need to immediately reduce the dose. If his numbers mid-cycle stay the same as they have been, hold the dose and let the insulin depot fill.

2. No one will be able to advise you until you have at least 6 stable cycles on the same dose with at least 2 tests per cycle. Ideally, that would be pre-shot AM and PM, and one test around nadir. If your kids are at home during the holiday, teach them how to test Mario. My son was getting bg tests for Mala when he was only 9, so it can be done.

3. Consistency is key with lantus. 12 hour cycles are part of how this works. If a 7:30 AM test and feed time works for you, then hold that time for the PM cycle. Most diabetic kitties want mini-meals around mid-cycle, if possible, so you can give small meals to Mario if you can do that separate from the rest of the cats. I know this is hard. We currently have a dog crate in our living room to separate the foster boys at meal time, to make sure one gets medication and the other does not.

4. Please start using the posting protocol when you write on the board. The name of the cat, the date, the AMPS value, then updates as you can get them.

5. Finally, unless the FF with gravy is low in carbs, don't feed that. Gravy = high carb values. Have it on hand if you start to see hypo numbers - under 40 is a grave concern - but feed him something low in carbohydrates. I'm linking Dr. Pierson's food chart to this post. You want to look for carb percentages ideally under 9, but lower is better. I currently give Yemala food with a carb value of 2%; all the gravy food I see on the chart by Fancy Feast are what we would consider medium carb values. Nine Lives, which isn't a high quality food, offers pate with values under the maximum for a diabetic cat, and it's comparatively inexpensive. Mala ate that, until she developed CKD and started needing a food low in phosphates.

https://catinfo.org/docs/CatFoodProteinFatCarbPhosphorusChart.pdf

So the short answer is, with adequate testing, we can start advising within 3 days. We're coming into the holidays, so I'm hoping that you'll be home and can start working regular test and feeding schedules into what I KNOW is a busy and stressful time. I can't tell you how many times I have had to be late to a fun dinner with friends because someone needed to be home to give Mala her insulin dose and feed her. Or how many times my husband has to drop in from work to get a mid-cycle test. But again - put the numbers in the subject line and start a new thread every day, updating it as you go. If you have a question or concern that needs help, use the question mark on the subject line. Link the previous day's thread into the first post of each day.

You've got this. You've found this board, you're managing a household of so many animals, you love your Mario. You can do this.

Thank you so much for your kind and encouraging words. I will work even harder to get Mario healthy again.
I will post the glucose levels of today now
 
I can see your spreadsheet, and as you fill in numbers in the days to come, you'll get really good advice.

For now, you also need to decide which protocol you want to use for Mario. It's either Start Low Go Slow or Tight Protocol. Given how chaotic your life must be, you might do better on the SLGS method. Please pull up the stickies on this board and read through the information you'll find there. When you've decided, add that information to your signature line.

Tomorrow morning, whenever you test Mario and give him breakfast and insulin, create a new thread. Use the posting protocol you see all over this board. Link this conversation in on the first post for the day. Update the numbers on the title line for your thread as you get them.

Do you know how to edit the title? If you're struggling with that, please ask. We can give you information so you can do it.

Keep asking questions, and know that we're all rooting for you and Mario. You're on the right path.
 
I can see your spreadsheet, and as you fill in numbers in the days to come, you'll get really good advice.

For now, you also need to decide which protocol you want to use for Mario. It's either Start Low Go Slow or Tight Protocol. Given how chaotic your life must be, you might do better on the SLGS method. Please pull up the stickies on this board and read through the information you'll find there. When you've decided, add that information to your signature line.

Tomorrow morning, whenever you test Mario and give him breakfast and insulin, create a new thread. Use the posting protocol you see all over this board. Link this conversation in on the first post for the day. Update the numbers on the title line for your thread as you get them.

Do you know how to edit the title? If you're struggling with that, please ask. We can give you information so you can do it.

Keep asking questions, and know that we're all rooting for you and Mario. You're on the right path.


Good morning,
I’ve been using the TR protocol although lately in the last few weeks I got desperate and moved up the dosage too early. I realize that now.

How do I link a conversation to a new threat?

Thanks so much again!
 
How do I link a conversation to a new threat?!

Open this thread (or your thread for the previous day). Copy the URL at the top of the page. Create a new thread for the current day. Click the link button at the top (7th from left). Paste the URL into the text box. If you want, you can change the words to something like “yesterday’s post or just yesterday.” Then click insert.

I haven’t done this for a while. If this doesn’t make sense, let me know and I will try to explain it better.
 
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/marios-spreadsheet.208363/#post-2309246
Open this thread (or your thread for the previous day). Copy the URL at the top of the page. Create a new thread for the current day. Click the link button at the top (7th from left). Paste the URL into the text box. If you want, you can change the words to something like “yesterday’s post or just yesterday.” Then click insert.

I haven’t done this for a while. If this doesn’t make sense, let me know and I will try to explain it better.



Ok, I could do all that but the part where you say “if you want, you can change the words to something like yesterday”
 
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/marios-spreadsheet.208363/#post-2309246


Ok, I could do all that but the part where you say “if you want, you can change the words to something like yesterday”
I just remembered when you said that didn’t work. You have to type the word “yesterday” in the condo first and then highlight it. Then click the link button.

Also, make sure you post the link in today’s thread. That way anyone who wants to read back over your previous info can do so quickly.
 
I just remembered when you said that didn’t work. You have to type the word “yesterday” in the condo first and then highlight it. Then click the link button.

Also, make sure you post the link in today’s thread. That way anyone who wants to read back over your previous info can do so quickly.
Ok
 
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