Magic - BG balancing!

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If you are interested, there is another option. You can get the u-100 needles and use the Conversion Chart to dose. You have to use the chart, but it's really easy to use. If you DO decide to do that, I suggest putting the u 40 needles in another room so you don't accidentally grab them! It does make it easier to make smaller adjustments. :)
 
Yes! I should have mentioned the U100s but it slipped my mind. It's a great way to get really small dose fractions and isn't as scary or confusing as many people think (sees numbers, mind freezes ... ;)).
 
@Rachel - that is a REALLY GOOD IDEA....tired in the morning...I could see how I could make that mistake!

I think I can get U-100 up at Costco pharmacy. I noted that the needle was much shorter which should not be a problem I don't think.

OK Maji came in at 140 this morning with no insulin last night. While I feel like I should give her a little insulin...the vet wanted me to wait and not give insulin unless she was 160 and / or above.

I am supposed to report back to her today. She still wants me testing 3x per day even if not on insulin to watch and see what happens. I will also let her know I COULD do the .25 (as Kris & Teasel suggested) with a conversion chart which is PERFECT thank you!!!

I have to say honestly it was a blessing not to wake up through the night worried about Maji...leaving the bed...going to find her and make sure she was o.k. when she was so low...it was scary and I worried incessantly.
 
A couple of things I noticed when her glucose was so slow...

All she wanted to do was sleep and she was kinda grumpy like...did not want to be petted, she would sleep DEEP where she would not wake up when I peered over her...then if I made any noise she would then wake and reach out to me with her paw :)

She did not play yesterday AT ALL.

This morning even though her glucose is up to 140 she is playing and running around again.

This could all be coincidence...but I thought I would make a note of it.
 
Magic Johnson said:
A couple of things I noticed when her glucose was so slow...

All she wanted to do was sleep and she was kinda grumpy like...did not want to be petted, she would sleep DEEP where she would not wake up when I peered over her...then if I made any noise she would then wake and reach out to me with her paw :)

She did not play yesterday AT ALL.

This morning even though her glucose is up to 140 she is playing and running around again.

This could all be coincidence...but I thought I would make a note of it.
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This is a common observation. They seem to feel more comfortable in higher BGs, maybe because their body has grown accustomed to that. It can take a while for them to get used to a healthier range. Someone on a forum compared it to how awful coffee drinkers feel if they stop drinking coffee.

It can also be related to the insulin. Teasel didn't feel well on ProZinc or Lantus. Levemir agrees with him though.
 
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Vet mentioned switching insulin if it becomes obvious we can’t go off so that makes total sense ALSO that makes total sense that she was used to higher levels...accustomed to that!
 
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I realize we don’t know which insulin is best for our babes. We only can try... that being said I’m ready to try something like Lantus or Levemir- I just don’t think Baby feels good enough for me! Lol I don’t know what I expect, it could be all in my head not in her bg!
 
HI all, vet called and keeps in touch asking for testing results. Tomorrow I go back to work so I really cannot do the noon test though.

Maji did good today, amps 140, noon test 102, pmps 135.

Vet feels maji's pancreas is trying to balance her glucose and the vet said it is succeeding she wants to give it a chance. She told me don't be surprised if it starts to creep up and we then have to right away bring it down again.
She says the pancreas on it's own is succeeding...right now for now.

K
 
I would not consider switching insulin right now. Maji is doing well at this point. It's generally recommended to give an insulin closer to 6 months before a switch unless there is something obviously wrong. Maji is getting some great numbers. She'll start to adjust to those lower ranges, but it does take a little time for some cats.
 
Djamila said:
I would not consider switching insulin right now. Maji is doing well at this point. It's generally recommended to give an insulin closer to 6 months before a switch unless there is something obviously wrong. Maji is getting some great numbers. She'll start to adjust to those lower ranges, but it does take a little time for some cats.
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Hi @Djamila :)

Right now she is not on any insulin...
 
Oh goodness, I thought in post 56 you were saying the vet was thinking about switching? I'm so sorry - I must have misinterpreted that! Trying to read a little too fast tonight! :bookworm::oops:
 
Djamila said:
Oh goodness, I thought in post 56 you were saying the vet was thinking about switching? I'm so sorry - I must have misinterpreted that! Trying to read a little too fast tonight! :bookworm::oops:
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Sorry, no what happened was Maji got REALLY LOW 58 noon nadir. Vet and I were worried; vet felt that was a little too low on 1/2 unit: Vet felt it was best to skip the next shot which we did - Majis numbers aren’t too bad right now off of insulin. Vet was worried that if we had to go back on insulin perhaps she might consider switching as Maji got awful low for very little insulin

We haven’t gone back to insulin yet but might have to if her numbers start climbing ...
 
Kris & Teasel said:
There's always 0.25 u if you need to give insulin. Like I said in post #47, vets don't think in those terms but we know it works. ;)
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I will definitely tell her (the vet) and I agree I think the Prozinc was working just too well at one point even though she was really getting less than 1 unit and it was only a half unit - it’s scary for me anyway when she got to 58...even at 96 it’s scary to give a shot at that point even if it was only 1/2 unit

Perhaps it is her pancreas starting to work again and that is why the big dip in numbers?

@Kris & Teasel @Rachel @Djamila Dunno, perhaps I should start a new thread about being temp off the juice? would I do that in the OTJ section? But I don't really consider her off the juice totally yet.

127 AMPS this morning
 
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Magic Johnson said:
I will definitely tell her (the vet) and I agree I think the Prozinc was working just too well at one point even though she was really getting less than 1 unit and it was only a half unit - it’s scary for me anyway when she got to 58...even at 96 it’s scary to give a shot at that point even if it was only 1/2 unit

Perhaps it is her pancreas starting to work again and that is why the big dip in numbers?

@Kris & Teasel @Rachel @Djamila Dunno, perhaps I should start a new thread about being temp off the juice? would I do that in the OTJ section? But I don't really consider her off the juice totally yet.

127 AMPS this morning
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How does a cats weight factor into how much insulin to give them?
 
I don’t know ? Sorry... but there are a lot of people on here who would know :) the numbers I am quoting are her glucose levels - sorry if I was being confusing.

I do know that I overfed Maji and therefore I am part of this diabetes problem. She worked me over all the time encouraging me to feed her more and more.

In my allowing that I think her overweightedness increased her insulin resistance. Fat cats tend to get diabetes I think for that reason.

As far as weight and amount of insulin I believe that is irrelevant as to what dose will bring down a cat to a fairly normal healing level. Under 230-ish? I’m
guessing now

BUT I AM A NOVICE at this... there are people on here who can answer much better about weight vs insulin dosage :)
 
We really don't take weight into account on dosage, to be honest. Most vets do for the starting dose, but we base the dose on their BG values as that's far more accurate. :)

And yes, we tend to think that under around 220 or so is healing numbers. You're going to be a pro in no time! :)
 
Rachel said:
We really don't take weight into account on dosage, to be honest. Most vets do for the starting dose, but we base the dose on their BG values as that's far more accurate. :)

And yes, we tend to think that under around 220 or so is healing numbers. You're going to be a pro in no time! :)
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LOL I don’t feel like pro at this at all... but thank you!

I wish I could go back in time and change the dry food, change the overfeeding... for all of my cats prior including Maji! Once you learn about all this... it’s frightening how all of it leads to this point... I wish vets would educate more. I was told Maji being obese might lead to diabetes- I wish they would say - “you’re going to have to get on an insulin schedule and stick your cat with a syringe needle twice a day like clockwork tired or not - you’re going to have to prick for blood twice sometimes 3 times a day and your cat is not going to like that IF you don’t do something about this weight and over feeding”

I think that woulda woke me up... I’m hoping it woulda :(
 
OTJ is 14 days with no insulin and numbers in the 50-120 range.

And amen on wishing that the implications had been clear before the diabetes diagnosis! I knew Sam was a little chubby, but didn't understand that while I thought it was cute, his pancreas did not. I didn't even know that cats could get diabetes. :oops:
 
Djamila said:
OTJ is 14 days with no insulin and numbers in the 50-120 range.

And amen on wishing that the implications had been clear before the diabetes diagnosis! I knew Sam was a little chubby, but didn't understand that while I thought it was cute, his pancreas did not. I didn't even know that cats could get diabetes. :oops:
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@Djamila - just curious why the range for OTJ here is 50-120 when the normal BG range for cats is 70-150? - Are you quoting a range for kitties using a human meter? Would the range be different for those of us using a pet meter?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ad...s/what-is-normal-blood-glucose-range-pets/amp
Article:
“I run in-house labs when I need answers ASAP when a pet is ill or if I’m suddenly needing to anesthetize a pet that we hadn’t planned for ahead of time. For my outside reference lab (a big national lab), the blood glucose range for cats is 64 to 170. And for dogs it is 70 to 138. My in house chemistry analyzer lists a normal range of 70 to 150 for cats and 60 to 110 for dogs. It’s all statistics. They test a bunch of “normal” pets to determine a normal range with that chemistry analyzer. Ranges for various machines are in the same ballpark – but not exactly the same exact numbers.”
 
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Hmmm...from what I could tell from that article that’s what normal BG would be for a cat who is stressed at the vet clinic. At home BG will be lower naturally. Since we home test and have tighter control than vets we have a lower threshold for normal. When a cat on here is at 170 we’d usually suggest giving insulin. I can’t give a scientific reason, but our range has been 50-120 due to all the kitties we’ve seen and data we’ve built.

It would be higher for a pet meter...maybe 60-140?
 
Rachel said:
Hmmm...from what I could tell from that article that’s what normal BG would be for a cat who is stressed at the vet clinic. At home BG will be lower naturally. Since we home test and have tighter control than vets we have a lower threshold for normal. When a cat on here is at 170 we’d usually suggest giving insulin. I can’t give a scientific reason, but our range has been 50-120 due to all the kitties we’ve seen and data we’ve built.

It would be higher for a pet meter...maybe 60-140?
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@Rachel At the beginning they are talking about stressed level 170 - if you go down to paragraph 5 it states the normal range.

Also I found this: which talks about the diff between human and pet meters and the human meter reads lower which would explain why this site states a glucose level lower than what the testing labs do. I read this: “Using a human glucose meter for measuring glucose levels in cats and dogs can deliver inaccurate results that are often significantly lower than what they actually are.” I think it was in this article below

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.advocatemeters.com/single-post/2016/01/18/Why-You-Need-to-Use-a-Pet-Blood-Glucose-Meter?_amp_=true
 
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Rachel said:
Hmmm...from what I could tell from that article that’s what normal BG would be for a cat who is stressed at the vet clinic. At home BG will be lower naturally. Since we home test and have tighter control than vets we have a lower threshold for normal. When a cat on here is at 170 we’d usually suggest giving insulin. I can’t give a scientific reason, but our range has been 50-120 due to all the kitties we’ve seen and data we’ve built.

It would be higher for a pet meter...maybe 60-140?
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Also I totally understand why people use the human meter vs the pet meter cost alone is worth it - BUT the glucose ranges are different if the human meter reads lower- then a glucose range of 50-120 would make sense. But if the pet meter which reads higher the 70-150 makes sense - I will go dig out Makis old lab work and see what it states

SORRY I got the lower and higher reversed I CORRECTED :)
 
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I found this on this site - it appears that the protocols on this site are geared towards using human meters hence the the lower range because most people on this site are using human meters which register the glucose testing readings lower therefore an adjustment is made - this might be confusing for those of us that are using pet meters to use theee same ranges as they don’t work fir the few of us that are.


http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/human-glucose-meter-conversion.184773/
 
Djamila said:
Yes, the difference is human vs. pet. Around here we generally say 68-150 on a pet meter.
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Totally makes sense! I may be the only one using a pet meter LOL

But the adjusted calculation on this site makes sense

My concern is for Maji to test 58 on a pet meter and be lethargic and not feel well is way different than a 58 on a human meter... this is where I am getting concerned- but I think I’m only one of a few on the pet meter...so the numbers work for the vast group on here


Corrected and put human meter above
 
Yes most people don’t use pet meters. We’re fine with either but most things are written for human meters since that’s what the majority use.
 
Your spreadsheet indicates that you are using a human meter. I would recommend switching to the spreadsheet that matches your meter as my comment about OTJ was written in terms of the meter I thought you were using based on looking at your spreadsheet. You can end up getting dangerous advice if someone thinks your safe ranges are 50-120 vs 68-150.
 
Djamila said:
Your spreadsheet indicates that you are using a human meter. I would recommend switching to the spreadsheet that matches your meter as my comment about OTJ was written in terms of the meter I thought you were using based on looking at your spreadsheet. You can end up getting dangerous advice if someone thinks you're safe ranges are 50-120 vs 68-150.
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OMG really??? :banghead:

Ok I gotta move data - there was only one link for a spreadsheet? Did I miss something???
 
Djamila said:
Your spreadsheet indicates that you are using a human meter. I would recommend switching to the spreadsheet that matches your meter as my comment about OTJ was written in terms of the meter I thought you were using based on looking at your spreadsheet. You can end up getting dangerous advice if someone thinks your safe ranges are 50-120 vs 68-150.
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I gottatest Maji and then get my data over THANK YOU - sorry for the confusion BUT at least I’m on the right track now!!
 
Djamila said:
No worries. it might not even matter that much at this point if she just keeps going down.

PS I love that you're doing some research on all of this!
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Thank you! Sorry for being a pain but look I found out I was totally wrong and that is great! Perhaps Maji is doing better than I thought? Thank you :)
 
Not being a pain at all! I spent hours and hours reading through threads and research articles and random pet websites and asking a million questions to learn about all of this and sort through information that at times seems contradictory. It's how we learn enough to keep our own pets safe and also to be able to pay it forward and help other folks around here. Keep the questions coming! :bighug:
 
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