Lucky's diabetes adventure to date

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Kim bpBrke

Kim bpBrke

Member Since 2017
My 10 year old dsh rescue Lucky was diagnosed in July 6, 2017 with fd. He had lost 7 pounds since March 2017, increased thirst, hunger, urination. I knew that it was diabetes because my husband of 28 years is a juniville diabetic. Diagnoised at 16. Anyhow, I get him into the vet and his initial bs was 598 by glucometer. Through his blood work though it was 732. So started insulin. The vet put him on vetsulin. It took two weeks for the insulin to get here. Ridiculous. She started him on 2 units however we were given the wrong syringes at the vets. They should have given us u 40's and they gave us u 100's. We including the vet didn't know this had happened until he went into the vets for a bs curve. His bs were 428-618. So. We had to order the correct syringes. Another week later and we have the correct syringes. Still have high bs readings on him. Lowest has been 254. I haven't tested for several days as the vet said not to worry about home testing. We don't treat them like a human diabetic. So just being here today I have learned that is not correct. Right now I am using a one touch meter (old one of my hubbys). So I will begin testing each day. I just have to learn how to do all this so I can track and upload the bs chart. He has just started having trouble walking properly. He wobbles and goes only a few steps and falls over or lays down. So that is where we are today. 8-19-2017. I'm really struggling with this. Looks like I have a lot to learn and do to help him live his best life. I am feeding Wd per vets request. Both dry and wet food. He is on 5 units twice daily.
 
Wow! I'm so sorry you got such bad info about the suringrs! As others will tell you I'm sure, prescription foods are not recommended. They are far too high in carbs. If you look in the main forums section (I think), you'll find there are far better options. The lower carb the better. We switched from Hills prescription Hill's z/d to Fancy Feast and totally off dry. It had made a huge difference.

I know it will be confusing some of the information you get here as compared to the vet info you may get, but I believe the people here know more. Sometimes vets don't have enough experience in diabetes.

Good luck on your journey and read, read, read here.
Stephanie
 
Welcome Kim to Main Health!
Crazy about being given the wrong syringes :eek:.
Kim bpBrke said:
I haven't tested for several days as the vet said not to worry about home testing. We don't treat them like a human diabetic. So just being here today I have learned that is not correct.
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Absolutely not, we would not blindly administer insulin to a small human child without daily testing :). Very aggravating towards Vet's who have this mentality :mad:! Home testing is the best tool in our FD kitty toolbelt. At minimum, you'll want to test 3 times a day. AMPS, PMPS (morning and evening pre shot tests, with no food eaten 2 hours prior) and a before bed test. This is very manageable for someone with a full time job. You'll try to grab extra mid cycle tests on days you are off. This is the Spreadsheet (SS) most of us use to track and share BG numbers, just need a Google account and if you need help setting one up, just ask!: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/fdmb-spreadsheet-instructions.130337/
HERE is instructions to understanding how to use the SS. Also, setting up your Signature with some information about Lucky will be super helpful as you continue to post and it's where your SS link will be put so we can easily look at it: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/editing-your-signature-profile-and-preferences.130340/

Kim bpBrke said:
He is on 5 units twice daily.
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This is a pretty high dose after only a little over a month. Did the Vet increase by whole units? We prefer to increase by tiny increments of 0.25U or 0.5U at most. Whole unit increases work ok for humans but not so much for little kitties (even the big one's ;))

Also, there is no need for expensive prescription food, as Tigger's Mum pointed out, they are too high in carbs for diabetic kitties. We use this FOOD CHART with data collected by a Vet to find foods that are lower carb, ideally under 10% carbs. If you can get your Lucky off dry, it's the best thing. If not, there are a couple other dry food options which are much better for diabetic cats and are mainly available in the U.S.

If you feel bad going against the Vet's recommendations, we understand but keep in mind there are many of us here who like our Vet's very much but have decided to follow each other with managing their diabetes. The decision will always be left up to you and we'll still be here to offer advice and perspectives from our personal experiences with our sugar kitties that we manage 24/7/365 :cat:
 
Hi, welcome to FDMB, the best place you never wanted to be! I'm so glad you're gong to start home testing! It's one of the best diagnostic tools you have, and the only way to keep your cat safe. As well as avoiding episodes of hypoglycemia, regular testing will help you to track patterns and trends that show you how your cat is handling insulin and lets you know when dose increases/decreases are necessary. We have a spreadsheet that we use, that all members can view; this helps us tremendously if you need help or have questions. This is the link to the SPREADSHEET, and here is the link to the INSTRUCTIONS for using it (it's really simple, don't be intimidated!) You can also provide a link to your vet, so they can pull your spreadsheet up and view it, as well.

I know your vet means well and believes s/he is helping your kitty, but Hill's w/d is not a very good food, for diabetics or other kitties, either. The canned version is very high in carbs (25%) and loaded with cellulose powder, which is basically the equivalent of cardboard; the dry version is worse. For diabetic cats, we recommend feeding canned/wet foods with less than 10% carbs, and no dry food at all. Here is a list of many readily available FOODS that you might like to check out; carbs are listed, too, so you can see which ones are okay for our sugar kitties. If you decide to change foods, you must be doing regular home testing, and the transition needs to be done gradually, to help reduce the potential for hypoglycemia!!! Many cats' insulin needs are reduced by changing to a low-carb diet, and you may need to reduce your dose.

For testing we suggest a routine of test-feed-shoot, in that order. Since you are using a fast-acting insulin, it's best if you wait 30 minutes or so after feeding before giving his shot. Take up any food at least two hours prior to testing so that your result is not food-influenced (you want to make sure it is safe to give the shot). If his pre-shot tests are lower than 200 - some even say 250 - don't feed yet, and post for advice! Any time during the day you can get in some random tests is good - you want to find the nadir, or lowest point, in your kitty's cycle, to determine how low his insulin dose is dropping him.

It sounds like your Lucky may have diabetic neuropathy which will cause the problems you are seeing with his ability to walk. B-12 ( in the form of methylcobalamin) will help, but it will take a little while, so don't be disappointed if you don't see marked improvement in a few days.

It would also be a good idea for you to pick up some ketone test strips. They are inexpensive and easy to use, just dip the end in your cat's urine and "read" the color after the appropriate amount of time (most of them are 15 seconds). It's a good idea to check ketones at least once a week, especially if kitty is experiencing high BG.

I hope I haven't swamped you with information, I've really tried to keep it pretty basic, lol! I'm sure you will have many questions, don't hesitate to ask for answers. The only stupid question is the one not asked!

Lucy:):):)
 
Hi, welcome to the best place for your diabetic kitty!!
My boy was diagnosed in Feb this year and I only found this board in April. Two months of time and money spent at the vet's with little improvement. Four months on this board and my boy is off insulin for 18 days now. And no more wobbly legs. We were on vetsulin too. We were using u100 syringes. There's a conversion chart somewhere here if you can't get u40 syringes.
Four months here and I know more things now about diabetes than my vets. They even asked me how I got my cat off insulin.
Stay on here around wonderful caring people. You won't ever regret it!
 
Welcome to FMDB. And kudos to you for learning to test and dose. You have received great advice already.

Vetsulin - many don't like it. The newer insulins like Lantus or Levemir are designed for slower absorption. That is a gentler approach to delivering the insulin to the body over a 12 hour period.

The sooner you regulate your kitteh the better. Those high BG numbers are creating glucose toxicity. One of the side effects of persistent high BG is neuropathy - weakness in the hind legs. Do a search for neuropathy in this forum. It is a common topic.

Read up on hypoglycemia and be prepared. Two links. First one is pretty wordy. Second is more focused.
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/how-to-treat-hypos-they-can-kill-print-this-out.15887/
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/jojo-and-bunnys-hypo-tool-box.2354/
 
[COLOR=rgb(255 said:
If you decide to change foods, you must be doing regular home testing, and the transition needs to be done gradually, to help reduce the potential for hypoglycemia!!! [/COLOR]Many cats' insulin needs are reduced by changing to a low-carb diet, and you may need to reduce your dose.
Click to expand...

SO important! When Tigger was on prescription food we had trouble regulating him. As soon as we switched him to Fancy Feast his numbers started behaving. His insulin needs went down and thankfully I was aware that lower carb food sinificamtly lowers BG readings. I spoke to the vet about it and we agreed to go from 5 units of Vetsulin down to 2. Now, it seems his numbers are great on 1.5 units 2x/day.
 
Squalliesmom said:
Hi, welcome to FDMB, the best place you never wanted to be! I'm so glad you're gong to start home testing! It's one of the best diagnostic tools you have, and the only way to keep your cat safe. As well as avoiding episodes of hypoglycemia, regular testing will help you to track patterns and trends that show you how your cat is handling insulin and lets you know when dose increases/decreases are necessary. We have a spreadsheet that we use, that all members can view; this helps us tremendously if you need help or have questions. This is the link to the SPREADSHEET, and here is the link to the INSTRUCTIONS for using it (it's really simple, don't be intimidated!) You can also provide a link to your vet, so they can pull your spreadsheet up and view it, as well.

I know your vet means well and believes s/he is helping your kitty, but Hill's w/d is not a very good food, for diabetics or other kitties, either. The canned version is very high in carbs (25%) and loaded with cellulose powder, which is basically the equivalent of cardboard; the dry version is worse. For diabetic cats, we recommend feeding canned/wet foods with less than 10% carbs, and no dry food at all. Here is a list of many readily available FOODS that you might like to check out; carbs are listed, too, so you can see which ones are okay for our sugar kitties. If you decide to change foods, you must be doing regular home testing, and the transition needs to be done gradually, to help reduce the potential for hypoglycemia!!! Many cats' insulin needs are reduced by changing to a low-carb diet, and you may need to reduce your dose.

For testing we suggest a routine of test-feed-shoot, in that order. Since you are using a fast-acting insulin, it's best if you wait 30 minutes or so after feeding before giving his shot. Take up any food at least two hours prior to testing so that your result is not food-influenced (you want to make sure it is safe to give the shot). If his pre-shot tests are lower than 200 - some even say 250 - don't feed yet, and post for advice! Any time during the day you can get in some random tests is good - you want to find the nadir, or lowest point, in your kitty's cycle, to determine how low his insulin dose is dropping him.

It sounds like your Lucky may have diabetic neuropathy which will cause the problems you are seeing with his ability to walk. B-12 ( in the form of methylcobalamin) will help, but it will take a little while, so don't be disappointed if you don't see marked improvement in a few days.

It would also be a good idea for you to pick up some ketone test strips. They are inexpensive and easy to use, just dip the end in your cat's urine and "read" the color after the appropriate amount of time (most of them are 15 seconds). It's a good idea to check ketones at least once a week, especially if kitty is experiencing high BG.

I hope I haven't swamped you with information, I've really tried to keep it pretty basic, lol! I'm sure you will have many questions, don't hesitate to ask for answers. The only stupid question is the one not asked!

Lucy:):):)
Click to expand...

Wow Lucy. I had no idea about Luckys food. I feel like I should have known these things because of my life with a diabetic husband for 28 years. I also believed that Lucky was on a long acting insulin not short. He has not been under 300 since Sunday and his legs are getting worse. He cannot go up or down stairs anymore. Ok time to pull up my boot straps.
Thank you so much for this information. I am working on his bs chart this morning. I will be getting back to you.
 
JanetNJ said:
Lots of great advice above so I'll just say welcome and let you know we are here for you.


5 units is double what most cats ever need.... Be careful.
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It's five units with the vetsulin insulin in a U100 syringe. If I were using the vetsulin with the U40 syringes it would be 2 units. From my understanding, Vetsulin insulin metabolizes differently than human insulin as it is made specifically for Feline and canine to match their systems. The issue is his bs is not coming down at all. Lucy let me know how bad W/D food is 25% carbs. I will change is food beginning today. I have the morning off and will get food recommended from this website. Oh my gosh I'm so stressed about this and am trying really hard to get his sugar down.
Thank you all for your help.
 
vbc2000 said:
SO important! When Tigger was on prescription food we had trouble regulating him. As soon as we switched him to Fancy Feast his numbers started behaving. His insulin needs went down and thankfully I was aware that lower carb food sinificamtly lowers BG readings. I spoke to the vet about it and we agreed to go from 5 units of Vetsulin down to 2. Now, it seems his numbers are great on 1.5 units 2x/day.
Click to expand...

Oh my gosh. That's great news. I am changing his food today. Well slow introduction into food.
 
Waheeda said:
Hi, welcome to the best place for your diabetic kitty!!
My boy was diagnosed in Feb this year and I only found this board in April. Two months of time and money spent at the vet's with little improvement. Four months on this board and my boy is off insulin for 18 days now. And no more wobbly legs. We were on vetsulin too. We were using u100 syringes. There's a conversion chart somewhere here if you can't get u40 syringes.
Four months here and I know more things now about diabetes than my vets. They even asked me how I got my cat off insulin.
Stay on here around wonderful caring people. You won't ever regret it!
Click to expand...

Thank you so much Waheeda. I am getting more encouraged instead of fearful.
 
vbc2000 said:
SO important! When Tigger was on prescription food we had trouble regulating him. As soon as we switched him to Fancy Feast his numbers started behaving. His insulin needs went down and thankfully I was aware that lower carb food sinificamtly lowers BG readings. I spoke to the vet about it and we agreed to go from 5 units of Vetsulin down to 2. Now, it seems his numbers are great on 1.5 units 2x/day.
Click to expand...
Thank you so much. So much to learn.
 
Kim bpBrke said:
It's five units with the vetsulin insulin in a U100 syringe. If I were using the vetsulin with the U40 syringes it would be 2 units. From my understanding, Vetsulin insulin metabolizes differently than human insulin as it is made specifically for Feline and canine to match their systems. The issue is his bs is not coming down at all. Lucy let me know how bad W/D food is 25% carbs. I will change is food beginning today. I have the morning off and will get food recommended from this website. Oh my gosh I'm so stressed about this and am trying really hard to get his sugar down.
Thank you all for your help.
Click to expand...
I used vetsulin as well. Since u100 is not the correct syringe type I would be clear on telling us you are giving 2 units rather than 5.
 
JanetNJ said:
I used vetsulin as well. Since u100 is not the correct syringe type I would be clear on telling us you are giving 2 units rather than 5.
Click to expand...
Oh I'm very sorry Janet. I did not mean for my post to come across as trying to misinform or make anyone upset. Lucky could not tolerate the U40 syringes as he bit me each time I used them. So I again I am really sorry to have upset you.
 
Kim bpBrke said:
Oh I'm very sorry Janet. I did not mean for my post to come across as trying to misinform or make anyone upset. Lucky could not tolerate the U40 syringes as he bit me each time I used them. So I again I am really sorry to have upset you.
Click to expand...
Oh no, not upset... Just when I saw 5 units I thought holy cow!!! That's a high dose! 2 units is much more reasonable! :). Just making sure your kitty is safe. We all are just here in the beat interest of the furry friends. :).
 
JanetNJ said:
Oh no, not upset... Just when I saw 5 units I thought holy cow!!! That's a high dose! 2 units is much more reasonable! :). Just making sure your kitty is safe. We all are just here in the beat interest of the furry friends. :).
Click to expand...

Ok. Thank you.
 
Kim bpBrke said:
From my understanding, Vetsulin insulin metabolizes differently than human insulin as it is made specifically for Feline and canine to match their systems.
Click to expand...
A cat's metabolism is three time faster than that of a human's. That's one reason why they do well on the long-lasting insulins. Vetsulin is metabolized very rapidly, and many kitties only get 8-10 hours of endurance from it. It works better in dogs, whose metabolisms aren't so fast. However, when my Squallie was on Vetsulin, he seemed to get the full 12-hr endurance, or at least close to it. But ECID (Every Cat Is Different), a phrase you'll hear around here a lot!
 
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