Low reading no symptoms - worried & new

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violetxx218

Member Since 2012
Hi all,

This is my first post and I'm a little worried (well a lot worried actually). My sig gives some info about my kitty. The vet said my bg tests were good and to carry on until another fructosamine in about a week.

Well I just tested him this morning 13 mins after his insulin and he's reading at 6.1 mmol/; which is really low. No symptoms of feeling crappy at all. He's purring, preening, playing (I stopped the playing as I didn't want him to use up any blood sugar he's got). Actually now (1 hour after injection) he's gone for a snooze on the radiator.

I tried to get another reading about 15 mins ago but didn't get enough blood.

He's a very (possibly one parent feral, rescue cat) short-tempered cat. He's let me take two BGs this morning but I don't want to be testing every 15 mins cos his fuse is short and once he's had enough that'll be it. He's a big cat... So I'd rather use the 3 or so attempts I'll get today spacing them out every hour or so and watching him like a hawk.

Just relatively new to all this and half worried / half hopeful. Perhaps the transition from dry to wet at his diagnosis has been enough. Maybe he doesn't need insulin anymore. Glad it's a saturday so I don't have to leave him and go to work. but my parents are visiting so not an option to sit at home quite with him and test him all day.

Looking for reassurance.
 
Ok I just got another BG:
6.35am 2U Caninsulin
6.1 mmol/l +0 hour 13 mins
5.2 mmol/l +1 hour 10mins

It's dropping (of course it is...) panicking. He's a-ok though. Purring. I, on the other hand, am a nervous wreck here, watching his every move for any signs of him looking like he's hypo'ing.

Based on his last (half) curve, he's going to drop into a hypo at this rate nailbite_smile
 
Where are you? I forgot how to convert the #s so I'm not sure where you are going into hypo. Has he gone into hypo before? do you have canned food with gravy? Don't panic I'll see if I can get the picture. I am Nancy, you are Violet?
 
Hi, Hi :)
I'm elaine.
I called the emergency vet and waiting for someone who knows about cat diabetes to call me back.

5mmol/l is 90 mg.dL according to something I found online,

I'm torn between - just feed him a can of carb high, or wait. The last curve I took his nadir was 3.3mmol/l and the vet said this was good. So maybe I should wait until he either goes a bit lower or unless he shows any signs obviously.

I dunno, I'm new to this. Never had a hypo. Do. Not. Want. nailbite_smile

Edit: sorry, I'm so nervous I'm not thinking straight, or reading straight apparently. I'm in Glasgow, Scotland.
 
Some cats show no signs, it's good your talking to someone. Go up in this forum to the stickies above and there is one on hypos, it would be good to read. You are shooting 2u insulin 2x a day? Are you in Canada because Caninsulin is not good for cats because it is short lasting and harsh on the system, almost never given here. When was the last shot? when you give BG #s don't give times because we are in so many time zones, do a +1 one hour from shot, +2, two hours from shot.
 
Scotland cool, I'm just outside of San Francisco. There is one thing we always say to a newbie is BREATHE because it is a lot to take in but you will be fine, the #s aren't too bad yet, maybe he will be okay.
 
Ok now I re-read and saw the +1 etc. Do you know in the cycle when he nadirs? the lowest point? and do you do 2u 2x a day?
 
Thanks for replying - it's early here. No-one much up yet.

I've got a printout I got form this board and I'm watching him like a hawk for any symptoms of that. So far, purring, playing with my pen, drinking the usual quite large amount, snoozing. Happy as Larry in fact.

But his numbers aren't so happy.

The (i dont know) receptionist wifey who answered the phone said I should give the shot before the injection. My vet never said that, but I learned it here. However, unfortunately my cat is a rescue - the time before feeding is just frantic time. He's just like 'meow, meow, feed me, MEOW!! MEOW!! FEED ME!!!' there's no getting a reading. he won't stay still, he's just freaking out for dinner time for like 2 hours before it happens. Been like this since he was 12 wks old over 11 years ago!
 
yep, he's on 2U twice a day. I shoot him while he's eating and he's voracious so he eats all his food straightaway in like 3 mins.

i'm worried cos these reading are so different from what i got before which was:

morning shot.
16.9 mmol/l +1
3.3 mmol/l +5
5.3 mmol/l +6 hrs 30 mins

this morning it's been:
morning shot
6.1 mmol/l +0 hrs 13 mins
5.2 mmol/l +1

It's now almost 2 hrs since his shot.
 
If you have just recently changed from dry to wet that will reduce his numbers and means he needs less insulin, I would reduce. Since it is daytime where you are you can take him to the vet if he drops too low. 2u 2x a day is a lot in the beginning and it seems to be too much, I would go back to 1u 2x a day. He is hungry because he is not regulated, feed him a lot! You can boil chicken, turkey meat, giblets, etc. can be given between meals.

I just got back from a long trip and I am exhausted and missing stuff, so I am going to bed.

If he drops a lot take him to a vet, ER is the best in things like this. This can be serious and in some cats you don't see signs until it is too late, trust the numbers.

Feed him treats when you test, warm his ear with a warm sock filled with rice and put in the microwave for 15 sec. or so and put on his ear 30-60 sec. then test, then feed or treat, get his associating treats with the tests.

You'll do fine. I don't see anyone around it is the middle of the night in most places. You are going to need to re-do his insulin dose, so this won't happen again, good night.
 
OK, update:
Still waiting for the vet to call...

Tried for another BG at +2 hours and got bitten and basically told to bugger off ...

Te emergency vet phoned while I was crying (mortified - had to call her back) who said give him food in the meantime and call my main vet when they open in 45 mins.

Called my main vet, who said exactly what you said Nancy! Feed throughout the day (the vet didn't say this was a better way to manage a diabetic diet to me at the time, so I'm a bit aggrieved at just learning this now) and reduce dose to 1U twice a day.

Another BG at +4.5 hours (hopefully he'll let me). I can only do it when he's happy and purring. I can't offer treats as he is a rescue cat and since being a kitten any sign of food just sends him into an excited frenzy of 'more! MORE! where's the next treat! no I won't sit still! I offer him treats after and his brush. but he doesnt ever seem to equate that good times follow the needle.. he's not the brightest kitty!

So I'm going to try all this and mostly watch him all morning for any signs and just feed him if anything untoward happens. Finger's crossed!
 
Hello,

How is your cat now? Is he OK? It sounds like you've had quite an ordeal so here's a hug for you - :YMHUG: - from south of the border!

Welcome to FDMB!

Eliz
 
Elaine,

Just had more thorough read of your posts.

Is it right that your cat had his shot at around 7.25am (UK time)? So he's about 3.5 hours into the cycle? Can you confirm that?

IF that's the case then you're going to need to keep a close eye on your cat for the next couple of hours until the insulin reaches it's peak and the numbers reach their nadir (lowest point).

What is the situation now?

Do you have honey or sugar syrup of some kind handy just in case you find yourself dealing with a hypo?

I'm home this morning so will keep checking back at the computer.
(Edited to add - Have PM'd you my phone number in case you want to talk anything through.)
 
Thanks Elizabeth so much - I'm still at the not sure phase. I shot him at 6.30am UK time, so it's now his nadir point. I got another BG reading at +4.25 hours and it was 3.0 mmol/l :shock:

Gave him some full carb gravy rich emergency food we have kept in case this happened. So he's had his entire days food plus this wee posh gravy tin so far this morning... He's looking a bit glassy eyed, but still seems fine in himself. He's cleaned himself, snoozed, purred, played. I've haven't let him out of my sight for a second so far so I'm ready to pounce with hypo-stop should he start to seize. This is SO SO stressful.

The last BG was a bit of an ordeal so I might just have to go with his clinical signs for the rest of the day and keep my fingers crossed that the extra food will help. I told myself from the start of the diagnoss not to be too hard on myself - I'm managing this as best as I can, and if he dies then I've done the best I can. But he is my total baby, and this is hard hard work.

My parents are visiting from out of town to help with house stuff and only have limited time to be here and help so I can't do any BG readings with them around cos it only works when its me and him being quiet ourselves.
 
Hi Elaine,

OK, so it's 12.35 here now; six hours after the shot and so it's quite likely that your cat is past insulin peak (BG nadir) and is not likely to drop any more. After insulin peak the numbers will start to rise.

Caninsulin is noted for dropping the BG sharply, but then having fairly short cycles in most cats; often being out of the system in as little as 8 hours. But as we say around here 'every cat is different' (ECID). You can probably start to relax a bit, (and have a well-earned wee dram, maybe? ;-) )

Well done, Elaine. You've done a good job. :smile:

If your cat was 6.1 (110) just 15 minutes after his shot (before the insulin started to work) then it was very possible that he may not have actually needed that shot... 6.1 (110) is a normal BG number. That is a very good sign!

It sounds as though your cat - at the very least - needs a dose reduction. But it may be that he turns out to be one of the very lucky cats who can come off insulin and become diet-controlled ('remission').

It's very important to check the BG BEFORE giving insulin. On this forum we recommend that - for those new to feline diabetes- no insulin is given if the BG number is below 11 (200).

You may find that your cat's BG is higher than normal this evening; either because of the food you've given him, or because that low number or steep drop gave his body a wee bit of a fright and triggered 'rebound'. (Rebound is the body's way of protecting itself. The liver dumps glucose into the bloodstream to raise the BG).

Please post back later and let us know how things are going.

Eliz
 
Hi Elaine!
Just checking in to see how everything is going and now I'm actually awake ohmygod_smile Great to see that you were able to get someone closer than I am here in California, thanks Eliz! Post and let us know how things are going.
Nancy
 
Morning Eliz and Nancy- thank you so much for all your support and 'go girl' encouragement - this has meant so much to me!!

Things are still 'squiffy' - I was out all day yesterday after 2pm (when I was confident his nadir had passed). I left my dad in with him with instructions on what to do if he started to seize. Telling your dad, who already thinks you're being a bit overdramatic with this whole thing, that he may have to stick some hypo-stop up a cat's arse ... well!)

Anyhoo, got back and took another BG at 5.30pm (+11), 1 hour before his shot/dinner is due. Bear in mind he's had his entire days food allowance in the morning, plus a can of luxury carb rich gravy food and a bunch of demon dry food most of the day. I'm expecting high. 9.4mmol/L. hmm...

Phone emergency vet who advises not to give him his shot, especially not as we're out for dinner in the evening. So just give him dinner without. Race through dinner and come home, and he really is his old self. He's been totally fine throughout, but last night he was just *happy* bounding about happier.

Cut to this morning and i'm terrified of insulin now, and try to get BG off the cat before his food/shot. He is frantic for food - keeps flattening his ears against his head, going 'wheres the food lady!!! WHERE!!' but amazingly, feeding him treats continously I manage to stab him (first time ever he doesn't even notice the wee pain).

So immediately prior to shot time this morning he's 6.3mmol/L. 6.3!? How has he dropped without any insulin last night?

Another call to the emergency vet who say, no, don't give him insulin based on that - which I'm happy with, cos I'm out this morning, and I'm a little fearful of the stuff now.

So I'm thinking of a few possibilities;
1. He's cured - hallelejuah! Highly unlikely, but let's throw it in there with some crossed fingers.

2. He's been on 2U twice a day and it's too high a dose and he's been on it for too long and his BG is slow to rise? Certainly the emergency vet last night was expecting me to have a BG this morning that would be in the teens if not, the twenties. (I haven't BG'd since the curve I took 1 and half weeks into his regime which was good at that time. (This weekend marks his third weekend at 2U))

3. He started taking Zyklene http://www.zylkene.co.uk/whatiszylkene.aspfor the first time ever on Tuesday night in preparation for going to the cattery next weekend as we're away. The vet said there are no side effects, nothing that would interfere with his diabetes, it's just a natural food supplement. Anyone have any ideas? If it is bringing his BG down, hey, maybe I've found an all natural treatment for diabetes! :-D
(He doesn't like the cattery, other cats, strangers or being out of his territory - he was fine with them then in June we put him in his normal one and *something* happened to make him feel threatened. So we put him in a new one, and when I got him he was so stressed he had marked everywhere and growled at me, didn't even recognise me. So this new one is an all singing all dancing one run by a vet nurse with no view of other cats and expensive! Finger's crossed, as he has to let her near him to give him his insulin..(

As an aside - I was in California in June Nancy, for my honeymoon. First time in the States - what a lovely lovely state. Went to Yosemite, Monterey and San Francisco. It was so so amazing. Not least because we've watched the baseball for years on espn america and follow the giants, and I got to go to the stadium and see them in the flesh!! we were there the day Cain got his award for the perfect game. :smile:
 
Yes, this is the most beautiful area on the globe! We live just out of San Francisco and just returned from a week in Monterey, my very favorite place.

Not sure what is happening with your baby, he could be going into remission, sometimes it happens with diet change, wouldn't that be great! Also you might want to find someone to stay at your house when you need to leave. That way he would be in his own environment and easier to test and shoot. Sometimes vet techs will do.

You sound better today ..... it will get easier, congrats on the marriage!
Nancy
 
Morning Nancy (or evening? :smile: )

Yeah, our next option is someone coming into the house if this cattery doesn't work. He was fine in catteries until June so I'm hoping he'll overcome it, cos I'd rather he is somewhere where someone is likely to check on him a bit more than someone only coming into the house twice a day. Also if he feels a bit threatened and pees all over the cattery that's one thing. But is he feels threatened by someone coming onto his territory and pees all over my house that is quite another! But yes, if the cattery doesn't work we're going to pay someone to come over and sit watching tv with us a few times until he's used to them, and then let them feed him in pet him while he's eating in our presence, then finally feed and inject him, and then we'd consider leaving the house for a weekend. Slowly slowly is the key with my kitty!

The husband and I would definately revisit Monterey - fantastic place! fantastic food, fanastic yarn shop! It, and Yosemite, was the best bit of our honeymoon outside of the baseball game. You're SO lucky to have all that beauty right on your backdoor. All we have in Glasgow it feels like, is rain.
 
violetxx218 said:
...So immediately prior to shot time this morning he's 6.3mmol/L. 6.3!? How has he dropped without any insulin last night?
Click to expand...

How did he drop to 6.3??? Well, maybe his pancreas is working, hen! :lol:

6.3 is a beautiful normal BG number.... dancing_cat


Eliz
 
Hello again, Elaine,

Sorry, meant to leave more detailed message earlier, but was in desperate need of a very strong cup of tea... :roll:

Yes, it could well be (crossing fingers and paws, anti-jinx, etc) that Kitty is heading for remission!

Here's the lecture bit: Remission doesn't mean 'cure'. You really need to think; "Once diabetic, always diabetic". But it may well be that Kitty's diabetes can become diet-controlled. Remission can last weeks, months or years. And it can happen intermittently too (periods of remission interpersed with periods requiring insulin). If it does turn out that Kitty is in remission then you must never, ever, ever feed him dry food. As someone (with a cat in remission) wrote here recently; you'll really need to think that your cat is only ever one bowl of kibble away from insulin. In order to help Kitty stay in remission for as long as possible 'appropriate diet' (low carb wet food) will be vital. OK, lecture over. Time to give that pancreas a little encouragement: Go Pancreas!!! Yeah!!!
:RAHCAT :RAHCAT :RAHCAT

You can encourage the pancreas to work - without overwhelming it - by feeding small (snack -size) frequent meals rather than a couple of big meals.

What exactly are you feeding Kitty at the moment?

Eliz
 
Hi Eliz

Thanks for getting back with that advice. I'm actually getting quite excited now. I fed him during the afternoon with more wet (I'm feeding him Applaws 1 - 1.5 156g cans per day) and so he was less frantic with hunger and I was able to get a BG test out of him with relative ease at 6pm (he usually gets shots around 6.30 twice a day).

He is reading 5.2mmol/L.

It's now been 36 hours since his last shot so this definately isn't hypo - he seems to be stabilising. I shall take your advice to board and assume that he is a diet controlled diabetic and I'm going to BG him before every shot time for around a week to see whether he is sticking in this range, or whether this is just a temporary phase.

No more dry food ever again and I'm going to evenly measure out his daily food allowance out to breakfast, brunch, afternoon tea, dinner, and supper - with breakfast and dinner having bigger portions in case I do need to give him a shot. Does this sound like a good idea?

I saw online that a good range is 2.7 - 7.5 mmol/L. If I saw 2.7mmol/L I think I'd panic even if he hasn't had insulin. Would I feed him if he's down here, or not worry if he hasn't had any insulin and I'm feeding him as above?

I'll phone my vet tomorrow to see what she thinks. Could this have been something else? Kidneys, dental something like that? Genuine remission seems so much like a miracle I'm tending towards some other explanation. In fact I really am wondering whether this Zyklene stuff has had any effect, but I've found nothing whatsoever online to suggest this. (and I'm a librarian, I can research! :smile: )
 
Oh that's brilliant news!

5.2 (93.5) without insulin! Whoop, whoop, whoop! flip_cat flip_cat flip_cat drinking24

Sounds like remission to me.... (crossing fingers, anti-jinx etc...)

Yeah!!!!!

Eliz xxx

PS. If BG number jumps up (above 8.5 or so) then check back here for suggestions, but meanwhile, break out the champagne! (Or single malt!.... :lol: )

Oh, PPS. As my mother would have said (I was born in Musselburgh), "Here's tae us, and wha's like us... Gie few...." drinking24
 
Thanks Elizabeth :)

He has continued to stay between 5-6mmol/L so I've not given him any more insulin and have just fired off an email of my whole weekend ordeal to the vet.

I can't thank you all enough for helping with advice and everything. I'm going to continue to monitor and keep everything crossed (and anti-jinx!) that he's performed some kind of Christmas miracle! So I'll toast ye tae that - slainte!
 
Ooooh, those numbers are looking good, Elaine! :-D

We're keeping fingers and paws crossed for you here that you get that Christmas miracle! ;-) dancing_cat dancing_cat dancing_cat
 
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