Low AMPS, but skyhigh PMPS - What dose? (part2)

Discussion in 'Feline Health - (Welcome & Main Forum)' started by Hercule's mum, Aug 6, 2020.

  1. Hercule's mum

    Hercule's mum Member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2020
    jt and trouble (GA) likes this.
  2. Bron and Sheba (GA)

    Bron and Sheba (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2015
    I don't use prozinc so hesitate to give dosing advice
    If you have plenty of high carb food and test strips and can test during the whole of this cycle, I think you would be fine to give some insulin. You could give a smaller dose of 0.5 unit if you are tired and don't feel comfortable giving the full dose.
    I wont be able to stay up with you though as its night time for me but I'm sure others will be online soon.
    I would get a +1 and a +2 to start with if you give insulin so you know what's happening and then go from there.
     
    Critter Mom likes this.
  3. Hercule's mum

    Hercule's mum Member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2020
    Thanks Bron! I just stalled and checked him again, he just inched about 11, so I guess I'll give it to him and watch closely again. Good night!
     
  4. Bron and Sheba (GA)

    Bron and Sheba (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2015
    Well done stalling and retesting
    Get those early tests in so you are not surprised with a low number at +3 or 4.
    Ill be around for a couple of hours so will watch out for your +1 and +2
    Remember you can always feed him to bring the BG up a bit if needed
     
  5. Hercule's mum

    Hercule's mum Member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2020
    12.4 1+ , I think I'll be able to manage, so please do not stay up for me.
     
    jt and trouble (GA) likes this.
  6. Bron and Sheba (GA)

    Bron and Sheba (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2015
    That could be a food bump so lets see what +2 is.
     
  7. Hercule's mum

    Hercule's mum Member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2020
    oh-oh 7.4 at +2.5.

    should I start giving something a bit higher in sugar so we don't get into panic mode? at what numbers should I start try to bring things up so we don't dip into bright green?
     
    jt and trouble (GA) likes this.
  8. Bron and Sheba (GA)

    Bron and Sheba (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2015
    I would just feed some normal low carb and test again +3.5
     
    jt and trouble (GA) likes this.
  9. Hercule's mum

    Hercule's mum Member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2020
    He crashed again!!! 2.9!!!!

    Honey and food.
     
    jt and trouble (GA) likes this.
  10. Hercule's mum

    Hercule's mum Member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2020
    I don't understand why he goes down so fast. I am tired and I want to stop testing.....:banghead::banghead::coffee::coffee::eek:

    I guess per deb instruction, is 0.5 U tonight
     
    jt and trouble (GA) likes this.
  11. Bron and Sheba (GA)

    Bron and Sheba (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2015
    Test again in30 minutes after the last test
     
    jt and trouble (GA) likes this.
  12. Hercule's mum

    Hercule's mum Member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2020
    it came up: 6.1
     
  13. Bron and Sheba (GA)

    Bron and Sheba (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2015
    That’s a relief.
    I would feed some normal low carb food now and test again in 1 hour. The honey will wear off in an hour or hour and half so he could drop again. So you will need to keep testing.
    I think you may need to drop the dose down to 0.25 units if he’s high enough next dose.
    See what Prozinc users think.
    Are you giving him a snack at + 2 routinely?
     
  14. Nan & Amber (GA)

    Nan & Amber (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2016
    Well, gosh, Hercules! You do like to keep your mum on her toes!
     
    jt and trouble (GA) likes this.
  15. Hercule's mum

    Hercule's mum Member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2020
    Indeed, Nan!

    What do you think, should I go down to 0.5 or 0.25 tonight. I don't think I can stay up again....:(
     
  16. Nan & Amber (GA)

    Nan & Amber (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2016
    Let's see what @Deb & Wink says about that when she comes on. Under the dosing methods, you'd only go down to 0.5, but maybe Hercules needs to hit the reset button.
     
  17. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    Back-to-back pyjama parties can take it out of a person.

    Again, well done with the home testing. And you were in great hands with @Bron and Sheba (GA) onside. :)

    (Do you mind my asking your name, BTW? Feel free to ignore this should you so wish. :) )


    Mogs
    .
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2020
  18. Hercule's mum

    Hercule's mum Member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2020
    He eats the whole day long now that I work from home and he has recovered.

    But this is a good question, what constitutes a snack versus a feed? I figured with the new food (Feringa rabbit&turkey) he should eat about 250g/day. He probably could eat that in two big seatings. But to try and help with his pestering behaviour and the sugar constancy I have been giving him about a large spoonful after each test. He also get a few pet munchies when the glucometer goes beep! The later I would call a "snack". So, do you think he should go back to having just two "meals" and I try to fend him off with a few snacks?
     
  19. Hercule's mum

    Hercule's mum Member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2020
    and.....bounce: 19.2 at +10, wonder where we will for PMPS....
     
  20. jt and trouble (GA)

    jt and trouble (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Hi Mum! Up above somewhere, someone asked if you would mind sharing your name. I'm sure it just got overlooked but names are easier than "Hey you" :p
    I kinda like Mum.
    BTW my name is Jeanne :)
     
    Critter Mom and Deb & Wink like this.
  21. Hercule's mum

    Hercule's mum Member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2020
    Karen, but happy to be called MuM or HM :)
     
  22. jt and trouble (GA)

    jt and trouble (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Hi Karen *waving* from Palm Springs Ca!
     
    Deb & Wink likes this.
  23. Hercule's mum

    Hercule's mum Member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2020
    Hi Jeanne! we need a waving emoticon......
     
  24. Hercule's mum

    Hercule's mum Member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2020
    PM dose comming soon.... (and bedtime hopefully!) 0.5U? Does that sound sensible?
     
  25. Nan & Amber (GA)

    Nan & Amber (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2016
    How long until shot time?
     
  26. Hercule's mum

    Hercule's mum Member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2020
    I should give it at 8.30... I guess I can delay up to 30 minutes?
     
  27. Nan & Amber (GA)

    Nan & Amber (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2016
    Is 8:30 now in your time zone, or do you have some time yet?

    I'm guessing 0.5U, but I would really like for a Prozinc person to weigh in. If we don't get someone before shot time, I wouldn't wait, especially if he's still in pink or higher numbers.
     
  28. Hercule's mum

    Hercule's mum Member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2020
    It is a red one: 23.1

    Lower than previous days though....
     
  29. Hercule's mum

    Hercule's mum Member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2020
    I gave 0.5 :eek:
     
    Deb & Wink and Nan & Amber (GA) like this.
  30. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    A dose of 0.5U sounds reasonable, especially since you already gave him that dose, before I saw this. ;)

    Please, do not increase the dose from that 0.5U dose, just because you see high pre-shots. The pre-shots are the last to come down.
    He's bouncing like crazy, but don't worry about those high BG levels too much. It will take time for those to settle down. The 0.75U dose is too much for Hercules. The 0.5U dose may be too much for him too.

    Hold those lower doses we have been recommending for several cycles at least, UNLESS you get another neon green BG number. Those neon green BG levels mean to pay sharp attention to the cycle and bring the BG levels up with food.

    Sure does look like Hercules is moving down the dosing scale fast.
    Food change to a lower carb food has made a big impact.
    A 0.25U dose is certainly the next step for Hercules. I'd actually like to see you decrease the insulin dose for the next cycle to the 0.25U dose and hold it.

    Please try that very small dose for the AM cycle on 8/7/20 (7/8/20 in European date format)

    If you don't think you can stay up late again, or set an alarm to wake you, then please leave out some of Hercules higher carb food for him to eat. The Ferninga is low carb, and won't bring his BG numbers up as fast. Many cats naturally seek out food, when they feel their BG levels are low.

    p.s. Not usually on this early, but taking a very late lunch break.
     
  31. Hercule's mum

    Hercule's mum Member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2020
    Thanks very much Deb! I will try to wake up in the middle of the night. He never leaves any food in the plate, so if I just leave some food out it will be devoured before the nadir.
    I stay up last night until +6 and did not see much of a dip. Yet low AMPS. I was feeding him at night as I tested (its his payment), so it must be that he is running out of stored resources fast?

    Just to confirm: Independent of what happen tonight you think I should give him a 0.25 dose tomorrow morning and hold it for a 3 cycles? Happy to do it, but if you have a chance later, could you let me know your thinking (so I learn!)

    Many thanks again!
     
  32. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Yes, I do suggest you lower the dose to that smaller 0.25U dose of Prozinc tomorrow, 8/7/20.

    Minimum of 3 cycles holding that low dose. Might take longer than 3 cycles, maybe as many as 6 cycles, for Hercule to clear the bounce, so be patient with the dose and wait for the bounce to clear before you think about a dose increase.

    The major reason I'm suggesting this lower 0.25U dose, is
    1. because you have changed the food to a lower carb food option, and
    2. the mid-cycle BG numbers have been in the low neon greens.

    Those neon green BG levels are what we think of as the "danger zone", and they need to be brought up to a safer level with some food A food change can drop the overall BG levels 100 or more basis points mg/dL ( 100 / 18 = 5.5 basis points mmol/L) in a short period of time.

    Have you considered a timed feeder? Or freezing some of his canned food, and putting out a frozen portion for him to eat overnight? The theory being that a cat can't eat a frozen hunk of food, and has to wait for it to defrost.
     
  33. Hercule's mum

    Hercule's mum Member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2020
    Thanks for the suggestion about the frozen food. Clever! I've been shopping, and I'll get a feeder. Won't solve this evening issues, but will hopefully help in the future!
     
  34. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    Hi Karen! :cat:

    Ask, and you shall receive!

    [​IMG]

    Waving at you from the political basket case formerly known as the UK.


    Mogs
    .
     
    Deb & Wink likes this.
  35. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    I can recommend Petsafe Eatwell 5-compartment feeders (I've got two of them). Got the suggestion from other members here.


    Mogs
    .
     
    Deb & Wink likes this.
  36. jt and trouble (GA)

    jt and trouble (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    You are in good company... Ours is worse!
     
    Critter Mom and Deb & Wink like this.
  37. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    With every day that passes since that peroxide poltroon moved into No. 10 there's less and less in it, Jeanne. :(


    Mogs
    .
     
  38. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Cats usually do better with more than 2 meals a day. Some cats are grazers, and slowly eat their food. Other cats are Hoovers, like the vacuum cleaners and gobble down the food in minutes. The blood glucose levels can stay more even with multiple meals a day, and the pancreas works less to process the food if it isn't all eaten at once. So no, I don't think you should go back to feeding him only 2 "meals" a day.

    So he's eating about a can and a quarter a day, with the 250 grams? (That's about 9 ounces for us folks in the US)
    Biggest portion of food should be after the pre-shot tests, to help balance the onset of the insulin.
    So split up the food, and set aside a portion to give later in the cycle for mini-meals and snacks and such.
    I think of a snack as being a teaspoon of wet food, about 4 grams. (Darn, I sure wish the US had converted to metric more than 50 years ago).

    If Hercule is gaining weight and doesn't need to, then you cut back on the food intake a bit. If he's losing weight and needs to gain, you increase the food a bit. I hold my cat in my arms and step on my human scale. Let her down and then weigh myself and subtract to get her weight. It's close enough.

    Food fed earlier in the cycle is better, because the insulin gets "used up" or "poops out" and feeding later in the cycle, after about +6 or so usually causes the BG levels to rise more rapidly in the last half of the 12 hour cycle.

    Sorry to be a "wet blanket" and digress a bit from the original poster, but there are 2 topics that are really frowned upon and not open for discussion on the message board. Posts have been heavily edited and "cracked down on" before. Don't want to see that happen to this thread too. So be careful please.
    1. Religion
    2. Politics

    A PM or private conversation about these topics is fine. Clue me in if you want.;)

    There is a Sticky that explains the posting "etiquette" for the message board. Here it is:
    Sticky FDMB Guide to Posting and Etiquette

    p.s. I just found out my favorite Minneapolis bookstore burned down in the riots in May. :( One side was science fiction, the other side was mysterys. After 46 years in business, all gone down in flames. We need more bookstores.
     
  39. jt and trouble (GA)

    jt and trouble (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    my bad apologies.
     
    Deb & Wink likes this.
  40. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    Ta for the heads-up, Deb. It was just meant as an on-they-fly, tongue-in-cheek bagatelle. My sincere apologies, too. :oops:

    Oh, that's sad. :( It sounds like Forbidden Planet in London, although that was more of a sci-fi/fantasy combo.

    There must be digital natives now who've never ventured into a bookshop and probably never will in their entire lives. They'll never experience that divine aroma...

    Their loss.


    Mogs
    .
     
  41. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Don't want anyone "going on report." Casual references are ok, but no long discussions. We have members here on both sides of the "spectrum" and a comment can inflame someone's sensibilities, and get them "riled up".
     
  42. Tinwhiskers

    Tinwhiskers New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2020
    Oh my, it sounds like you're referring to Uncle Hugo's! Had wanted to go there this year (had never been) - am still saddened that chance will never happen :(

    Have been following this thread as the bouncy numbers are something we are experiencing (no insulin involved though) - the responses have been insightful! Sending kitty love for Hercules!
     
  43. Hercule's mum

    Hercule's mum Member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2020
    It looks like I missed a good party last night (your evening)!

    I woke up in the middle of the night and he was on the reds. Still in the red this morning.... No black, so that is good?

    I'll give him 0.5 even though I really want to give him 0.75....:oops:
     
  44. Hercule's mum

    Hercule's mum Member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2020
    Ooops, I meant I want to give him 0.5, but I know I should give him 0.25. :facepalm: Haven't had my coffee yet!

    On that subject, it is very hard to do 0.25 shots with U40s. Should I switch to a u100?

    Mogs - I was looking at the petmate C5000 that looks like what you reccomended but a bit cheaper. I was settling in for a petmate C20 because it is cheaper and have the ice compartments. Any experience with petmate ones? I am worried about hercules figuring out how to open the lever types (he is quite resourceful...) and noise with the whirring of the round ones....
     
  45. Hercule's mum

    Hercule's mum Member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2020
    Deb - thanks so much for the explanation of food. Hercs is definetely a hoover. I think a teaspoon of food would be gulped befote hit his plate....He has been gaining weight, which was good for a while but I think we are getting at the point where we need some management.;)

    Maybe I can try two largeish portions at 0 and +4 of each cycle and just a few snacls after that?
     
  46. Nan & Amber (GA)

    Nan & Amber (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2016
    If you switch to the U-100 syringes, here's the conversion chart to be able to measure the proper doses.

    OK, Herc, here's the test, let's see if you behave today! So far so good, but he did drop a lot between AMPS and +2, so he may be up to something. I would feed him a little snack now even if you had planned to wait a bit-- sometimes it help put on the brakes.
     
  47. Hercule's mum

    Hercule's mum Member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2020
    Thanks Nan! +4 and we are pehaps moving back up? Perhaps we will be Ok today? Fingers crossed!
     
  48. Nan & Amber (GA)

    Nan & Amber (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2016
  49. jt and trouble (GA)

    jt and trouble (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    THATS how you use this site effectively GOOD 4 U!!!;):cool::coffee:!
     
    Deb & Wink and Critter Mom like this.
  50. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    Hi Karen,

    Here's a post I wrote a while back about the timed feeders I've used, their strengths and weaknesses. Depending on the situation, one feeder may benefit the cat more than another. I still have the Petsafe, a couple of C20s and a couple of C10s. (I've not used the Catmate C500.)

    Review of Pet Feeders

    On Amazon UK at the moment the Catmate C500 is £39.99 and the Petsafe 5 is £41.65. I also saw that there's a Catmate C300 3 compartment feeder similar in design to the C500.

    WRT the whirring of the feeder mechanism Saoirse was a little puzzled by it at first but thereafter she regarded the whirring as a dinner gong. :rolleyes:


    Mogs
    .
     
  51. Hercule's mum

    Hercule's mum Member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2020
    That's brilliant! Thanks Mogs!
     
  52. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    For the snacks, if you can smear that teaspoon of food on a plate, then put the plate down within his reach, that smeared food means Hercules has to spend some time to lick it off, that could slow down his eating. It's worth a try, but be forewarned you may want some type of mat underneath, one with a lip to catch any spilled food.
     

Share This Page