Lots of Questions! Pancreatitis, Freeze-Dried Raw, and Home Testing

[Crista & Ming]

Hello! I'm new My cat's name is Ming and he was diagnosed with both pancreatitis and diabetes back in March this year. Since then, I've had to bring Ming back to the vet two more times because of his pancreatitis. It always happens the same: he starts vomiting non-stop, probably 10 times in an hour and then he loafs, doesn't eat, and goes to hide. I then bring him to the vet and they'll give him anti-vomiting meds and pain killers and antibiotics as well as fluids. He'll stay in the hospital for a couple of days and come out back to normal.

His last pancreatitis flare up was last week and he stayed in the hospital for 5 days. We did an ultrasound again and the radiologist said his pancreas looks pretty beat up but no cysts or abscesses. The vet can't rule out cancer but it hasn't spread to other organs. As well, the vet warned me about the use of steroids as it can make the diabetes worse.

Before Ming was diabetic, I tried my hardest to feed an appropriate wet food diet that he will eat. He is picky and loves his Fancy Feast (I stuck to non-gluten classic pates and no fish). But I would also feed him other brands and foods like Weruva, Nature Variety's Instincts and Primal's Freeze Dried Raw. Although he will get bored of them and then I would have to go back to FF. I also didn't gradually increase or introduce these foods. I would just switch every meal. For example, maybe in the morning he'll get FF and then in the afternoon he'll get Primal with some FF mixed in or just on its own and then for dinner he'll get FF again. Or some days he'll get 2 cans of NV and one can of FF. (He would used to eat about three to four 3 oz cans a day and weighed 18+lbs). He is not a kibble addict either.

I've been reading up on Dr. Lisa's page about diabetes and my impression after reading it, it seems most cats before becoming diabetic ate kibble or were kibble addicts. But my cat wasn't but he still got diabetic and is suffering from pancreatitis. Could the diet I was feeding Ming have caused his pancreatitis and diabetes?

Today, he gets two meals a day with 2 units of ProZinc and noticeably lost weight (17.4 lbs). My doctor of course recommends the prescription diets (Hill's M/D and DM). My mother also wants me to try out the food before I rule it out even though I don't believe it's any better than FF. But I mix it in with his FF or NV every meal. He's picky and will not eat Hill's on its own and the mixing is in attempt to eventually have him only eat Hill's (even though I don't want to... but I'm following my vet's advice at this time just because I've only recently FINALLY have time to really do some research since the pancreatitis stuff took up a lot of my time along with other things happening in my personal life. But I'm SOOO glad right now that I finally have time to really sit down, research, and ask people questions. Before, I was just reading a lot but not really in a comfortable position where I could start action since I really wouldn't want to do or change anything until I spoke to a lot of people and my vet about my cat's specific situation).

I want to do Home Testing. And I'm still in the preliminary stages of reading up on how to home test and maybe my question will be answered once I do more research. But my question about home testing is: After you test BG, how and when do you then decide it's right to adjust your cat's insulin dose? How do you know it's working? Should you consult your vet before adjusting insulin doses?

Now moving on to diet-related questions. Can diabetic cats eat a variety of foods or should they only stick to one brand of food/one type of food? All those foods, along with the varying flavours, all have different levels of carb %. Would feeding foods with different carb %s negatively affect a diabetic cat's BG levels?

I ideally would love to feed my cat only Primal freeze dried raw or a very good canned wet food. But my cat is hooked on Fancy Feast and will get bored of the "good" stuff and ignore the food. So that's why in the past, I would rotate flavours and brands. I'm also guessing home testing will help ensure a cat doesn't spike up and down with his BG levels.

Anyway, thank you SOOO much for taking the time to read this book of a thread and answering the questions I have! Right now, Ming is sleeping comfortably in my bed. He's looking super cute and derpy with his sleepy face and shaved belly

(This angle is makes his stomach look delightfully HUGE haha)

EDIT:
Ohhh and another round of questions I forgot! I'm trying MY BEST to be diligent about giving him his insulin ON TIME. But there are times where I just forget by half an hour to an hour. I'll give him his insulin and the resume the "normal" time for the next meal. The vet had said it is okay to give him insulin half an hour to an hour after he's eaten. If I accidentally delay an insulin dose, do I also have to delay the next insulin dose? Or can I resume the "normal" scheduled insulin dose?

My vet also said no snacks in between the two meals. But I've read briefly somewhere on this forum that some members feed small meals throughout the day. What is a good feeding schedule? Two times a day or small meals throughout the day? If I do small meals throughout the day, do they also have to be timed and how would that affect home testing and BG levels?

 

[Chris & China (GA)]

Want to try to answer at least some of your questions!

Could the diet I was feeding Ming have caused his pancreatitis and diabetes?

No...genetics plays a huge role in the development of diabetes. By feeding a species appropriate diet, you may have kept him from getting sick a lot sooner!!

Can diabetic cats eat a variety of foods or should they only stick to one brand of food/one type of food? All those foods, along with the varying flavours, all have different levels of carb %. Would feeding foods with different carb %s negatively affect a diabetic cat's BG levels?

If your cat tolerates different brands/flavors, as long as it's under 10% carbs, that's the important part. Nobody (including your cat) wants to eat the same thing every day their entire life, so variety is important! Now SOME cats are very carb sensitive and you might notice their BG go up when eating a 8-10% food versus eating a food that's 0-4%

If I accidentally delay an insulin dose, do I also have to delay the next insulin dose? Or can I resume the "normal" scheduled insulin dose?

We usually recommend working your way back to your "chosen" shot times by adjusting 15 minutes per cycle or 30 minutes per day.

What is a good feeding schedule? Two times a day or small meals throughout the day? If I do small meals throughout the day, do they also have to be timed and how would that affect home testing and BG levels?

Most of us do feed multiple small meals, but always take all food up 2 hours before shot times so that when you test, you get a number that's not influenced by food.

Feeling multiple small meals is easier on the pancreas than feeding 2 huge meals (just like humans are told to eat more frequent, smaller meals instead of 3 big ones)

After you test BG, how and when do you then decide it's right to adjust your cat's insulin dose? How do you know it's working? Should you consult your vet before adjusting insulin doses?

By home testing and keeping a good spreadsheet, you'll be able to see how your cat is doing. We look for overall trends....Is the current dose getting them where we want them?

As for consulting your vet, that's a tricky question. Vets just don't have the time to stay up to date on the latest research on every disease in every type of animal they see so treatments tend to get "lumped together" and everybody gets treated the same. The people here have lots of "real life" experience, so usually you're going to get the best advice from people who live this disease 24/7/365

But some people really want to keep their vet in the loop....to a certain extent, this will depend on how flexible your vet is! We have had people whose vet's "Fired" them because they dared to question their vets advice.

My own cat hasn't been back to the vet for her diabetes since she was diagnosed over 5 years ago. I chose to listen to the people here over the vets in my area that had limited experience with diabetic cats. When she has had to go to the vet for other things, I just tell them "she's on X units of insulin and her blood glucose runs between Y and Z" and that's usually the end of the conversation

 

[Marie&HerCats RUSTY]

Hello! I'm new My cat's name is Ming and he was diagnosed with both pancreatitis and diabetes back in March this year. Since then, I've had to bring Ming back to the vet two more times because of his pancreatitis. It always happens the same: he starts vomiting non-stop, probably 10 times in an hour and then he loafs, doesn't eat, and goes to hide. I then bring him to the vet and they'll give him anti-vomiting meds and pain killers and antibiotics as well as fluids. He'll stay in the hospital for a couple of days and come out back to normal.

His last pancreatitis flare up was last week and he stayed in the hospital for 5 days. We did an ultrasound again and the radiologist said his pancreas looks pretty beat up but no cysts or abscesses. The vet can't rule out cancer but it hasn't spread to other organs. As well, the vet warned me about the use of steroids as it can make the diabetes worse.

Before Ming was diabetic, I tried my hardest to feed an appropriate wet food diet that he will eat. He is picky and loves his Fancy Feast (I stuck to non-gluten classic pates and no fish). But I would also feed him other brands and foods like Weruva, Nature Variety's Instincts and Primal's Freeze Dried Raw. Although he will get bored of them and then I would have to go back to FF. I also didn't gradually increase or introduce these foods. I would just switch every meal. For example, maybe in the morning he'll get FF and then in the afternoon he'll get Primal with some FF mixed in or just on its own and then for dinner he'll get FF again. Or some days he'll get 2 cans of NV and one can of FF. (He would used to eat about three to four 3 oz cans a day and weighed 18+lbs). He is not a kibble addict either.

I've been reading up on Dr. Lisa's page about diabetes and my impression after reading it, it seems most cats before becoming diabetic ate kibble or were kibble addicts. But my cat wasn't but he still got diabetic and is suffering from pancreatitis. Could the diet I was feeding Ming have caused his pancreatitis and diabetes?

Today, he gets two meals a day with 2 units of ProZinc and noticeably lost weight (17.4 lbs). My doctor of course recommends the prescription diets (Hill's M/D and DM). My mother also wants me to try out the food before I rule it out even though I don't believe it's any better than FF. But I mix it in with his FF or NV every meal. He's picky and will not eat Hill's on its own and the mixing is in attempt to eventually have him only eat Hill's (even though I don't want to... but I'm following my vet's advice at this time just because I've only recently FINALLY have time to really do some research since the pancreatitis stuff took up a lot of my time along with other things happening in my personal life. But I'm SOOO glad right now that I finally have time to really sit down, research, and ask people questions. Before, I was just reading a lot but not really in a comfortable position where I could start action since I really wouldn't want to do or change anything until I spoke to a lot of people and my vet about my cat's specific situation).

I want to do Home Testing. And I'm still in the preliminary stages of reading up on how to home test and maybe my question will be answered once I do more research. But my question about home testing is: After you test BG, how and when do you then decide it's right to adjust your cat's insulin dose? How do you know it's working? Should you consult your vet before adjusting insulin doses?

Now moving on to diet-related questions. Can diabetic cats eat a variety of foods or should they only stick to one brand of food/one type of food? All those foods, along with the varying flavours, all have different levels of carb %. Would feeding foods with different carb %s negatively affect a diabetic cat's BG levels?

I ideally would love to feed my cat only Primal freeze dried raw or a very good canned wet food. But my cat is hooked on Fancy Feast and will get bored of the "good" stuff and ignore the food. So that's why in the past, I would rotate flavours and brands. I'm also guessing home testing will help ensure a cat doesn't spike up and down with his BG levels.

Anyway, thank you SOOO much for taking the time to read this book of a thread and answering the questions I have! Right now, Ming is sleeping comfortably in my bed. He's looking super cute and derpy with his sleepy face and shaved belly

View attachment 36829
(This angle is makes his stomach look delightfully HUGE haha)

EDIT:
Ohhh and another round of questions I forgot! I'm trying MY BEST to be diligent about giving him his insulin ON TIME. But there are times where I just forget by half an hour to an hour. I'll give him his insulin and the resume the "normal" time for the next meal. The vet had said it is okay to give him insulin half an hour to an hour after he's eaten. If I accidentally delay an insulin dose, do I also have to delay the next insulin dose? Or can I resume the "normal" scheduled insulin dose?

My vet also said no snacks in between the two meals. But I've read briefly somewhere on this forum that some members feed small meals throughout the day. What is a good feeding schedule? Two times a day or small meals throughout the day? If I do small meals throughout the day, do they also have to be timed and how would that affect home testing and BG levels?

Wow! Youve asked almost every question I have or had...only much more articulate! Ill be following this thread!
We are similar in that
1. Not the most consistent with shot time but not way late
2. Feed variety of food, based on Dr Piersons chart (50% protien 20-40% Fat, <3/5% Fat ?
3. Apprehensive about changing dose
4. Telling Vet Im home testing and talk insulin change
5. Rusty also has either pancreatitis in past or still does - no test yet
Ohhh, Ming is SO cute!!
I let Rusty eat through out day. Try to give him 1/4 of his daily moist (no dry)
4 times a day My Vet said only two meals ya, right!

 

[Marie&HerCats RUSTY]

Want to try to answer at least some of your questions!



No...genetics plays a huge role in the development of diabetes. By feeding a species appropriate diet, you may have kept him from getting sick a lot sooner!!



If your cat tolerates different brands/flavors, as long as it's under 10% carbs, that's the important part. Nobody (including your cat) wants to eat the same thing every day their entire life, so variety is important! Now SOME cats are very carb sensitive and you might notice their BG go up when eating a 8-10% food versus eating a food that's 0-4%



We usually recommend working your way back to your "chosen" shot times by adjusting 15 minutes per cycle or 30 minutes per day.



Most of us do feed multiple small meals, but always take all food up 2 hours before shot times so that when you test, you get a number that's not influenced by food.

Feeling multiple small meals is easier on the pancreas than feeding 2 huge meals (just like humans are told to eat more frequent, smaller meals instead of 3 big ones)



By home testing and keeping a good spreadsheet, you'll be able to see how your cat is doing. We look for overall trends....Is the current dose getting them where we want them?

As for consulting your vet, that's a tricky question. Vets just don't have the time to stay up to date on the latest research on every disease in every type of animal they see so treatments tend to get "lumped together" and everybody gets treated the same. The people here have lots of "real life" experience, so usually you're going to get the best advice from people who live this disease 24/7/365

But some people really want to keep their vet in the loop....to a certain extent, this will depend on how flexible your vet is! We have had people whose vet's "Fired" them because they dared to question their vets advice.

My own cat hasn't been back to the vet for her diabetes since she was diagnosed over 5 years ago. I chose to listen to the people here over the vets in my area that had limited experience with diabetic cats. When she has had to go to the vet for other things, I just tell them "she's on X units of insulin and her blood glucose runs between Y and Z" and that's usually the end of the conversation

Hi Chris, sorry for jumping into thread but....
Do you get your insulin RX from the vet you take him to?

 

[Chris & China (GA)]

Do you get your insulin RX from the vet you take him to?

The last time I needed a script was in June 2014 and I just called and said I needed a script called in for her Lantus and gave them the phone number of the pharmacy in Canada that I use.

I haven't been asked for another script since, even though I've refilled several times (probably because insulin is OTC in Canada)

 

[Marie&HerCats RUSTY]

The last time I needed a script was in June 2014 and I just called and said I needed a script called in for her Lantus and gave them the phone number of the pharmacy in Canada that I use.

I haven't been asked for another script since, even though I've refilled several times (probably because insulin is OTC in Canada)

Nice to know! I want to ask my Vet for new script but I wonder what a I do if he says he doesn't need it. I guess it would time to find another vet! Easier said than done her in RI. Small town, 2 Vets nearby other ones are a hike and/or to expensive.
I just changed Vets. I will be firm and we will see if I'll be looking for another LOL