Lilly and Buzz are back grrr

[Lilly]

Hi! We are experiencing some odd things here. Background.: Buzz was dx'ed in April. We started home testings and put him on Lantus. I also removed all DRY food from his diet. Inside of a week he was having in range numbers. We continued to monitor this and the numbers stayed consistent in good range, 75 - 78 fasting. We took him off the insulin and have monitored monthly since this time. He stayed off dry food, stopped using the water fountain at all, so presumed he was receiving enough moisture from the canned food, with good in range numbers.

Over the next few months I noticed that he has large amounts of urine in 'his spot' in the litter box. Numbers still in range, no fountain drinking, but large amounts of urine passing. I added back in a small handful or less of dry a day to see if this would help with the large amounts he was peeing about a month ago. It seems to have helped this, however, the last two to three days he is having higher fasting numbers (high on his monthly so have continued to check daily again now). The dry food is low carb to virtually no carbs (I have two brands and I limit the one that has cranberries to less than a half handful - finger full, the other he gets perhaps a small small handful), so thought this would be okay for him to have in small amounts. Today he ate canned at 5:45 am, I tested him in six hours at 11:45 am before his next meal and he is at 156!!!! Highest yet! I will check this again before his next meal at 6:00 pm and pull a two hour number. He will get no dry for the next few days. Hello drenched litter box. I am a bit confused! Normal numbers, no extra water from fountain, peeing up a storm. Small amount of dry, less peeing up a storm, still little to no fountain drinking (I saw him in there once in the last three days first time since April)), elevated BG numbers!! Any ideas other than calling in for that expensive bottle of insulin and starting over again from scratch? Okay, I am more than a bit confused! Why the large amounts of peeing I wonder. I think he was being over watered! Thus the dry add back.

He is also on supplements. Per day: CoQ10 30 mg, Taurine 125 mg, B vitamins (Jarrow's B-right - approx 1/16 teaspoon). Also 10 drops of Safflower Oil (Vitamin E). I withheld the oil today.

Thanks for any suggestions you may have on this!! :sad: to ?

 

[Sue and Oliver (GA)]

Sorry you have to come back. Maybe time for a vet check? Could the urine be urinary issues? An infection?

In some cats, dry food of any can raise bg levels - even the lower carb brands. You might get rid of it and see if his numbers go down.

 

[BJM]

Time for a vet check - excessive urination can be from many different causes, including renal disease.

 

[Vicky & Gandalf (GA) & Murrlin]

Ditto, excessive peeing can be a sign of other illnesses, hyper-thyroidism, renal insufficiency, etc. Although the dry food will lessen the urinary output since it's not contributing to bodily moisture (one reason why it's bad for cats) it will cause BGs to increase, even the grain free brands have higher carb kcal %'s than grain free canned.

Don't get caught up in what this might mean, just take him in for bloodwork and a urine draw and go from there. We have experience with other chronic feline illnesses, so although he's in remission, we can help you with whatever's going on.

 

[Jennifer & Saima (GA)]

I am not real experienced with any of this, but I will add that in my observation, the grain-free dry foods often seem to have extremely high phosphorus, which is exactly what you don't want if he has kidney problems.

 

[Lilly]

Hi all. Thought I would update with what I have learned so far. Vet was gone until Monday. She did not think this was much of a problem. She thinks I may be too cautious! Yes, yes I am!! Yet she may have a point. She suggested we continue to monitor the BG and watch him.

I repeated to her that the entire reason I added back in ANY dry food was the large amounts of urine in his spot in the box. When I took him to only canned food, (grain free) he stopped using the water fountain at all, so one must imagine he was getting enough moisture from the food. With the amounts in the litter box, I thought he was being over watered, and there was nothing HE could do about this, other than pee up a storm. If I added back a small amount of dry then he would at least have the option, if needing moisture to use the fountain for this, thus a self regulation of sorts.

I.) I may have over done it on the dry. After his late night meal, I let him 'free range' on the dry, which did not seem like much to me, but may have been more than he needed. Although I only saw or heard him in the fountain one time during this experiment.

2.) I may have blown it on the brand of food. I have one that is low carbs, but has cranberries in the recipe, which I was not intending to give him. I may have blown that! He may have gotten some, but pretty sure not a lot of this brand. Perhaps just enough to spike the numbers. And thanks to you here I am understanding that low carbs may still be for him high carbs.

3.) The amount of urine in the box did decrease to what looks (I know - looks is not specific!) to be usual amount for an average cat.

4.) The BG is not that high most mornings. It seems to go up on late night tests. I had begun to test him three time a day. At the risk of a major long post here I am going to try and make this more clear for you, as I know sometimes hands on from been there done that people is much more valuable than what the Vet thinks!

I feed him four times a day. He gets about four - five TBSP at 12:00 noon (a meal), he gets about two TBSP at 6:00 pm (a snack), 12:00 midnight a meal (this is where I would allow the dry after his canned food plate); 6:00 am a snack. Twice a week (Tues and Thurs) he gets baked seasoned free chicken at around 8:00 pm. I was testing him before the noon meal, the 6:00 pm snack and the midnight meal. Day one of testing now, off dry again, (Wednesday) reads: noon 156; 6 pm 128; midnight 140. Day two: 103; 89; 112. Day three: 100; 103; 147. Day four: 119; 115; 165. Day five: 101; 124; 158. Day six (I stopped doing the 6:00 pm read, went to just the two times I would have been testing to shoot) 98; 128. Day seven: 98; 133. Day eight (today) noon: 100. (Today is with having chicken and approx. 10 pieces of dry food at midnight last night. I'm betting the late night number tonight is up, based on the recent history!)

I have no idea why the late night numbers are staying high. I swear he is not getting any other food than the four meals, other than the chicken twice a week. We have supervised dining!

I do have an older kitty, now 12 3/4 years old, who was hyperthyroid. We took him for i131 a year ago. This one is in early CRF, so I do watch for low phosphorous in any food, and add water to his plates everyday (he still uses the fountain a few times a day). All three of them get the supplements I included in the OP, plus this one now is getting one for joint health. He also is off dry food, but has not put back on his weight until the last month or so. I do on occasion give him five to ten pieces of dry food. I suppose I should say what dry foods! I am using Wysong Epigen and Wellness Core. I know cranberries are also not good for kidney cats, so he rarely gets the Core. Buzz NEVER (I am watching this much better now!!) gets Core. They were on Purina blue bag. Not after I really read and understood the ingredients! And the elimination of this food is what dropped the numbers for Buzz last April - May when he returned to normal numbers on all tests to 80 - 90, with a fructose testing number of 313, range 190-365. I thought this was still a tad bit high, but there was a note on the report that excellent range is 350-400, which would actually indicate he might be slightly hypo!?!?

The suggestion from Vet was as stated, test and watch. It was also said that if I would want to, while monitoring him right now, add back in around 10 pieces of dry, to see if this would help the litter box flooding, without raising the BG. I started this on Monday and so far it does not appear to be raising the numbers and it IS helping some in the litter box! I am going to continue to monitor him and see how things go. I think the Vet may be basing some of this on his last chem panel and UA. His Bun was 20; Crea 1.5; SG 1.05; PH 6 in late May. I am very much aware that kidney issues can turn on a dime, so will be watching for signs of this as we proceed with caution.

Can anyone suggest a binder of sorts that I could add to the canned food which would help in the over watering issue? Most anything I have thought of would involve some amount of starch, which would obviously not be good. I could replace the ten pieces of dry with something else, if I could just figure out what! Yet that being said, I do believe there is something to be said for chewing.

I am sorry to be so long in this posting. I am trying not to worry, go with the flow and the Vet's ideas. Difficult sometimes at best! I thank you all so very much for your patience with me and all the great ideas. I'll take any and all ideas you can give for this boy!

I have posted his picture in the gallery under Lilly's album, (for avatar I have to do what?). I will tell you he is a Siberian mix we think, 9 1/2 years old and a bit over 14 pounds. Big, muscular, not fat, solid as a rock! He looks like a different cat in the summer!

THANK YOU again!