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waite

Member Since 2018
Im new, my cats name is Cats
HE is about 12 years old. Found he had diabetes late Dec.2017. We are going nowhere. need help. Dr has him on 31/2 units 2times a day. His last Frutosamine test was 306 on 3/13. I also did a curve on that day
426 7:30 AM
409 10 AM
332 noon
241 2 PM
306 4 PM
371 7:30 PM

His numbers are every where from 500 to 600 then goes to 300 and as low as 75. whats happening? eats only fancy feast . weighs 14 lbs. looks like he needs weight. Was 15 lbs in DEC.
 
waite said:
Im new, my cats name is Cats
HE is about 12 years old. Found he had diabetes late Dec.2017. We are going nowhere. need help. Dr has him on 31/2 units 2times a day. His last Frutosamine test was 306 on 3/13. I also did a curve on that day
426 7:30 AM
409 10 AM
332 noon
241 2 PM
306 4 PM
371 7:30 PM

His numbers are every where from 500 to 600 then goes to 300 and as low as 75. whats happening? eats only fancy feast . weighs 14 lbs. looks like he needs weight. Was 15 lbs in DEC.
Click to expand...
Sharon14 said:
Welcome! We can help. I’m glad you’re home testing! If you can set up our spreadsheet it will help us see what’s going on with Cats.
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/fdmb-spreadsheet-instructions.130337/
If you need help, just ask and someone will set it up for you. Come to the Main Health forum and ask any questions you have.
Click to expand...
need help. not computer savy
 
Hi and welcome!

Getting a cat regulated takes time so be patient but there's a lot of very experienced people here that can help you

Knowing what your test results other than the curve are will help everyone make some suggestions, and if we are suggesting you put them in the spreadsheet we normally use is because that way they are in a format we are used to see and handle also let us know if he has any other medical issues besides the diabetes.

Since you are on lantus here's a link to some very useful information http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...the-basics-new-to-the-group-start-here.18139/
 
Need help, not computer savy. My cat was
Veronica & Babu-chiri said:
Hi and welcome!

Getting a cat regulated takes time so be patient but there's a lot of very experienced people here that can help you

Knowing what your test results other than the curve are will help everyone make some suggestions, and if we are suggesting you put them in the spreadsheet we normally use is because that way they are in a format we are used to see and handle also let us know if he has any other medical issues besides the diabetes.

Since you are on lantus here's a link to some very useful information http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...the-basics-new-to-the-group-start-here.18139/
Click to expand...
Hi, thanks for posting. Looking at your spread sheet does that mean .25 units seems like the most is 1 unit? My vet has my cat on 31/2Units he is anywhere from 400 to 600 lately.He is +9 from 520 this am. Just called vet he is reducing his insulin to 2 2x a day. He has had several LOW readings from 500 to 65, 70.125.
Looks like he wants to start over with him. He is a indoor outdoor cat. I use Alpha trak 2. Is your cat indoor. Most people I read on this site their cat is in the .5 to 1 unit of Lanus.
 
waite said:
Need help, not computer savy. My cat was

Hi, thanks for posting. Looking at your spread sheet does that mean .25 units seems like the most is 1 unit? My vet has my cat on 31/2Units he is anywhere from 400 to 600 lately.He is +9 from 520 this am. Just called vet he is reducing his insulin to 2 2x a day. He has had several LOW readings from 500 to 65, 70.125.
Looks like he wants to start over with him. He is a indoor outdoor cat. I use Alpha trak 2. Is your cat indoor. Most people I read on this site their cat is in the .5 to 1 unit of Lanus.
Click to expand...
I'm sorry, didn't finish. He was +9 to 70 from 520. He still has 3 hrs to go. My cat is always hungry.loosing weight. need help
 
We will help you. I’ll tag another member @Chris & China she can help set up your spreadsheet. If your cat went down to 65 on an Alphatrac then you do need to reduce the dose. How often do you feed? We find that feeding 4 times a day seems to help steady the glucose and hunger pangs.
 
waite said:
Need help, not computer savy. My cat was

Hi, thanks for posting. Looking at your spread sheet does that mean .25 units seems like the most is 1 unit? My vet has my cat on 31/2Units he is anywhere from 400 to 600 lately.He is +9 from 520 this am. Just called vet he is reducing his insulin to 2 2x a day. He has had several LOW readings from 500 to 65, 70.125.
Looks like he wants to start over with him. He is a indoor outdoor cat. I use Alpha trak 2. Is your cat indoor. Most people I read on this site their cat is in the .5 to 1 unit of Lanus.
Click to expand...

Babu is an indoor cat and was a micro dose cat, I had to move in the range of 0.1 unit to 0.75 and very rarely 1 unit and my increments/decrements had to be by the drop but that is not the norm, the protocol establishes that you start on 0.5 units and start going up in 0.25 unit increments, and a lot of people dose more than 1 unit, thing is you will have to find the right dose for yours, that is one of the reasons to increase or decrease in 0.25 unit not to miss the right one.

At the beginning is quite common that a cat will go low and then as a reaction high again is like their body needs to get used to the insulin, that's one of the reasons the protocol establishes that you have to keep the dose for a few days (at least a week at first ) unless he goes under 90 at any time during the day then you would lower the dose the other important reason is since Lantus is a depot insulin you need to allow the depot to form and that would help keep the numbers with out so much ups and downs.

One more thing is the dose is established taking into consideration the nadir, this is the lowest number during the cycle( 12 hour period between shoots) not his high number

waite said:
I'm sorry, didn't finish. He was +9 to 70 from 520. He still has 3 hrs to go. My cat is always hungry.loosing weight. need help.
Click to expand...

Probably the reason that he's always hungry and loosing weight is that his diabetes is unregulated, that is actually one of the symptoms, you could let him eat more and more often that would probably help, as his numbers start getting better his appetite will slowly return to normal and most cats gain some weight again with time

If he was indeed at 70 then he probably does need the dose decrease we would usually only decrease it in 0.25 but since your dose is a little bit high you could try the 2 units twice a day your vet recommended, start monitoring from there and try to keep the dose for a few days, then again it would be easier for every one if we knew more of your tests results to make a more informed suggestion.
 
Last edited:
Veronica & Babu-chiri said:
Babu is an indoor cat and was a micro dose cat, I had to move in the range of 0.1 unit to 0.75 and very rarely 1 unit and my increments/decrements had to be by the drop but that is not the norm, the protocol establishes that you start on 0.5 units and start going up in 0.25 unit increments, and a lot of people dose more than 1 unit, thing is you will have to find the right dose for yours, that is one of the reasons to increase or decrease in 0.25 unit not to miss the right one.

At the beginning is quite common that a cat will go low and then as a reaction high again is like their body needs to get used to the insulin, that's one of the reasons the protocol establishes that you have to keep the dose for a few days (at least a week at first ) unless he goes under 90 at any time during the day then you would lower the dose the other important reason is since Lantus is a depot insulin you need to allow the depot to form and that would help keep the numbers with out so much ups and downs.

One more thing is the dose is established taking into consideration the nadir, this is the lowest number during the cycle( 12 hour period between shoots) not his high number



Probably the reason that he's always hungry and loosing weight is that his diabetes is unregulated, that is actually one of the symptoms, you could let him eat more and more often that would probably help, as his numbers start getting better his appetite will slowly return to normal and most cats gain some weight again with time

If he was indeed at 70 then he probably does need the dose decrease we would usually only decrease it in 0.25 but since your dose is a little bit high you could try the 2 units twice a day your vet recommended, start monitoring from there and try to keep the dose for a few days, then again it would be easier for every one if we knew more of your tests results to make a more informed suggestion.
Click to expand...
 
Thanks, I'm so grateful for anyone to talk to me about this. tonight at 8 oclock he was 200. We gave him 1 unit(because vet told us anything 200 or under don't
shoot) He has had nadirs 70,65,95 all in the last few weeks.very high 620,630 then very low. All over the map. The first vet started him at 2
then we changed vets. This one did the frotosomine test. He was 306. So we will start the 2 units tomorrow.
 
waite said:
Thanks, I'm so grateful for anyone to talk to me about this. tonight at 8 oclock he was 200. We gave him 1 unit(because vet told us anything 200 or under don't
shoot) He has had nadirs 70,65,95 all in the last few weeks.very high 620,630 then very low. All over the map. The first vet started him at 2
then we changed vets. This one did the frotosomine test. He was 306. So we will start the 2 units tomorrow.
Click to expand...
Will try and get spreadsheet next few days.
 
Sharon14 said:
We will help you. I’ll tag another member @Chris & China she can help set up your spreadsheet. If your cat went down to 65 on an Alphatrac then you do need to reduce the dose. How often do you feed? We find that feeding 4 times a day seems to help steady the glucose and hunger pangs.
Click to expand...
He eats 4 times a day. About 4 or 5 small cans a day. He has lost weight.
 
waite said:
We gave him 1 unit(because vet told us anything 200 or under don't
shoot) He has had nadirs 70,65,95 all in the last few weeks.very high 620,630 then very low. All over the map. The first vet started him at 2
then we changed vets. This one did the frotosomine test. He was 306. So we will start the 2 units tomorrow.
Click to expand...

I would NOT increase to 2U if he's only been on 1U....we don't ever increase insulin by that much because we could bypass what could be a "perfect dose", but also, if 1U was getting him down to 60's and 70's, he does not need to get double the insulin!!

We only do increases in .25 unit increments, so it's important to have syringes that have half unit markings (nobody makes them with .25 unit markings)

Again though, if the 1U dose has gotten him in the 60's, you do not want to increase!!!

What's probably caused the 600's is something we call "bouncing"....Bounces are caused from 1. dropping too low, 2. dropping too quickly, 3. dropping into numbers their body isn't used to anymore (or any combo of all 3 reasons)

If I had to guess, I'd say #3 is the most likely. He's been high for so long before diagnosis that his body has gotten used to living in higher numbers, so even though 60's/70's isn't "too low", it feel like it to him. His liver releases stored sugar and hormones to bring him back up to where he's used to being....he "bounces" high.

It can take up to 6 cycles for those hormones and sugars to clear the body, so you just hold the dose and wait for the bounce to clear. Once you've got your spreadsheet up, it'll help

If he dropped to 65 on the Alpha Trak meter, he needs LESS insulin, not more!!
 
waite said:
Thanks, I'm so grateful for anyone to talk to me about this. tonight at 8 oclock he was 200. We gave him 1 unit(because vet told us anything 200 or under don't
shoot) He has had nadirs 70,65,95 all in the last few weeks.very high 620,630 then very low. All over the map. The first vet started him at 2
then we changed vets. This one did the frotosomine test. He was 306. So we will start the 2 units tomorrow.
Click to expand...

The most useful information is the every day testing you are doing, the fructosamine test will tell you an average of the past days only and today he could be very low, that's why everyone is insisting on seeing all your test results.

For the look of it if he has been having very low and very high numbers what is happening is that he's bouncing this is when his body detects a very low number or a number lower than the one he has had in the past days it reacts and he goes very high, is a common reaction, but we would need to see more information to be sure, lets see how his numbers look with the 2 unit dose.

I do suggest you start posting all your questions in the Lantus forum so that the people that use Lantus like you can see your doubts this is the link to that forum

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/forums/lantus-glargine-levemir-detemir.9/

waite said:
He eats 4 times a day. About 4 or 5 small cans a day. He has lost weight.
Click to expand...

He will continue to be very hungry and loose some weight or not gain any util he starts seeing lower numbers at least, so be patient and I would suggest you just let him eat as much as he wants.

Thing is the glucose in his blood is not allowing his cells to get the nutrients they need that's why he's always hungry
 
Chris & China said:
I would NOT increase to 2U if he's only been on 1U....we don't ever increase insulin by that much because we could bypass what could be a "perfect dose", but also, if 1U was getting him down to 60's and 70's, he does not need to get double the insulin!!

We only do increases in .25 unit increments, so it's important to have syringes that have half unit markings (nobody makes them with .25 unit markings)

Again though, if the 1U dose has gotten him in the 60's, you do not want to increase!!!
Click to expand...

I think he was on 3 units she just gave him 1 tonight because he was at 200 but I may be wrong

@Marje and Gracie you are great thanks
 
Veronica & Babu-chiri said:
think he was on 3 units she just gave him 1 tonight because he was at 200 but I may be wrong
Click to expand...

Yeah I see that now...looks like he was on 3.5

The information I gave you about bouncing is still valid though.....when you see those high numbers soon after a low one, it's more than likely Mr. Liver kicking in and causing trouble! (although it's really a good thing....it's frustrating when they bounce, but it's better than if they dropped too low and nothing saved them!)

Usually as you continue to treat, Mr. L will re-learn that it's OK to be in those better numbers and stop releasing all those hormones and sugars and Cats won't bounce as high....and the bounces will start to clear faster
 
Chris & China said:
Yeah I see that now...looks like he was on 3.5

The information I gave you about bouncing is still valid though.....when you see those high numbers soon after a low one, it's more than likely Mr. Liver kicking in and causing trouble! (although it's really a good thing....it's frustrating when they bounce, but it's better than if they dropped too low and nothing saved them!)

Usually as you continue to treat, Mr. L will re-learn that it's OK to be in those better numbers and stop releasing all those hormones and sugars and Cats won't bounce as high....and the bounces will start to clear faster
Click to expand...

Totally right
 
Chris & China said:
I would NOT increase to 2U if he's only been on 1U....we don't ever increase insulin by that much because we could bypass what could be a "perfect dose", but also, if 1U was getting him down to 60's and 70's, he does not need to get double the insulin!!

We only do increases in .25 unit increments, so it's important to have syringes that have half unit markings (nobody makes them with .25 unit markings)

Again though, if the 1U dose has gotten him in the 60's, you do not want to increase!!!

What's probably caused the 600's is something we call "bouncing"....Bounces are caused from 1. dropping too low, 2. dropping too quickly, 3. dropping into numbers their body isn't used to anymore (or any combo of all 3 reasons)

If I had to guess, I'd say #3 is the most likely. He's been high for so long before diagnosis that his body has gotten used to living in higher numbers, so even though 60's/70's isn't "too low", it feel like it to him. His liver releases stored sugar and hormones to bring him back up to where he's used to being....he "bounces" high.

It can take up to 6 cycles for those hormones and sugars to clear the body, so you just hold the dose and wait for the bounce to clear. Once you've got your spreadsheet up, it'll help

If he dropped to 65 on the Alpha Trak meter, he needs LESS insulin, not more!!
Click to expand...
 
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