lantus users, help please

Status
Not open for further replies.

sylvester248

Member Since 2012
my friend gave her cat a double dose by mistake about a week and a half ago of lantus, i think he's on 5 units...i told her to take him to the vet when he got a reading of 52..she never found out if the details of his time there...today she gave the regular dosage at 1 p.m. and his bg is 48..showing no signs whatsoever of hypo...i told her karo but the cat took a little and that was it and he's eating...i am not familiar with hypo or lantus with no symptoms.. i know this board well because about 5 years ago, the members of this board helped me through my experience with my Sylvester..and i will be forever grateful for that. Any information would be helpful..
 
My suggestion - have your friend feed, maybe even some food with a higher carb count instead of the karo. Karo wears off quicker than food. Continue to check the kitty's BG to make sure the number is on the rise and not just a temporary spike due to the food or karo. Keep posting with the numbers so that the more experienced users can weigh in.
 
Hi,
I'm happy to hear there aren't any symptoms of hypo so far.
I hope there won't be any.

Some cats can go under 50 without a hypo but since that dose just happened.

viewtopic.php?f=28&t=15887

open this link asap and keep that window open for yourself.

I want you to open another window and come right back to this website and put a 911 on your post.

I'm going to go tell others in the lantus group to come if they can.
If we are alone, then you have the page to refer to.

You need to see if he will eat some high carb cat food right away.
 
SYMPTOMS
Some cats may have NO symptoms whatsoever, but here are the most common ones:

MILD HYPOGLYCEMIA
Sudden ravenous hunger
Shivering
Weak or lethargic

MODERATE HYPOGLYCEMIA
Disorientation
Trouble with vision... bumps into furniture
Poor coordination, such as staggering, walking in circles or acting drunk
Changes in head or neck movements
Restlessness
Urgent meowing
Behavioral changes, such as aggressiveness

SEVERE HYPOGLYCEMIA
Convulsions or seizures
Unconsciousness


TREATMENT

During treatment for hypoglycemia, try to test every 15 minutes until you see the bgs begin to rise. Then continue to test until you are satisfied that the cat is out of danger.

VERY LOW NUMBERS – WITHOUT SYMPTOMS
Retest glucose using a large blood sample to make certain you have enough blood, and if you still get a very low number (under 40 mg/dL or 1.9 – 2.2 mmol/L) administer a tablespoon of corn syrup, liquid glucose, pancake syrup or honey, or INSTA-GLUCOSE and follow with food until the blood glucose numbers rise to acceptable levels. The syrup can be mixed with wet food or poured over dry if the cat will eat the mixture. If using liquid glucose, dilute with water for a thinner consistency.

LOW NUMBERS – WITHOUT SYMPTOMS
Retest glucose using a large blood sample to make certain you have enough blood, and if you still get a low number (40 – 60mg/dL or 2.2 – 3.3mmol/L) give food or treats until the blood glucose numbers rise to an acceptable level. If the cat refuses to eat even his/her favorite foods, you can syringe feed or administer a small amount of syrup.

LOW NUMBERS – MILD SYMPTOMS
Try feeding first or give a little syrup or honey followed by food until the blood glucose numbers rise to an acceptable level and the symptoms disappear. The syrup can be mixed with wet food or poured over dry if the cat will eat the mixture. If the cat will not eat, syringe feed. If your cat will eat dry, feed this first as the high carbs will help to increase his/her bgs quickly. You can then follow with his/her favorite canned food. Keep in mind that giving syrup (Karo, etc.) or honey is not enough because the effects wear off quickly. You need to follow with food.
IF IN ANY DOUBT, TELEPHONE YOUR VETERINARIAN.

LOW NUMBERS – MODERATE SYMPTOMS
Give a tablespoon of syrup, a teaspoon of liquid glucose, a tablespoon of honey or a tablespoon of sugar syrup followed by food and continue doing so until you see the blood glucose numbers rise to an acceptable level and all symptoms disappear. The syrup, honey, or glucose can be rubbed against the inside of the cat’s cheeks or on the gums for quick absorption. You can also mix the syrup with wet food or pour over dry if the cat will eat it. Continue to give syrup and food as needed and observe your cat for signs of recurring hypoglycemia. Keep in mind that giving syrup (Karo, etc.) or honey is not enough because the effects wear off quickly. You need to follow with food.
IF IN ANY DOUBT, TELEPHONE YOUR VETERINARIAN.

LOW NUMBERS – SEVERE SYMPTOMS
Rub syrup, honey, or glucose on the gums and cheeks if your cat will allow it. Another option for administering syrup, diluted liquid glucose, honey or sugar syrup to a cat who is seizuring is to fill a needleless syringe with the mixture and insert via the rectum.
NEVER TRY TO SQUIRT SYRUP, HONEY, OR GLUCOSE TO A CAT WHO IS SEIZURING AS THE CAT COULD CHOKE ON IT! RUSH TO EMERGENCY.

AGAIN! ANYTIME YOU CAT IS SEIZURING OR LIMP, RUB KARO, GLUCOSE OR HONEY ONLY ON GUMS OR ADMINISTER RECTALLY AND GET TO EMERGENCY OR YOUR NEAREST CLINIC IMMEDIATELY!!!

Remember that syrup or any other sugared syrup/preparation will spike the blood glucose ONLY for a short period of time, so food is really important with mild and moderate symptoms. Dry food (high carbohydrates) will keep the blood glucose numbers elevated longer, so it’s a better food to give during a hypoglycemic episode.

After a hypoglycemic episode cats may be more sensitive to insulin, so a reduction in dosage is generally required, especially considering too much insulin – whether due to dosage, inadequate food intake, or the cat’s changing insulin requirements – caused the hypoglycemic event in the first place. With moderate to severe episodes, your Vet may have you skip the next injection altogether.
IT IS VERY IMPORTANT THAT YOU DISCUSS YOUR CAT’S HYPOGLYCEMIC EVENT WITH YOUR VET, SO TOGETHER YOU CAN DECIDE UPON THE NEXT COURSE OF ACTION.

Always keep in mind that with low blood glucose and no symptoms, the BG you get is not as important as where it is headed. In other words, if you get a BG of 100 mg/dL or 5.6 mmol/L or less and there are still several hours or more before the insulin peaks, your need to watch your cat (and the numbers) carefully and take appropriate steps. With very low numbers and NO SYMPTOMS, a cat can be fine one moment and seizuring the next.

BE PREPARED! KNOW THE SYMPTOMS AND KNOW THE TREATMENT!


Copyright © 1998-2010
Last edited by Rebecca, Webmaster on Wed Feb 09, 2011 5:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: removed broken link
Melissa & Popcorn (GA) & Sushi (GA)
Joined the FDMB: February 25, 1998Melissa&Popcorn(GA)

Posts: 178
Joined: Tue Dec 29, 2009 11:37 am
Private message
 
okay, she is going to get some friskies with gravy, has been feeding friskies in pate so far and then when she gets back she will test again...lantus peaks at around 5-6 hours? Could it be possible that nothing happens with low numbers?
 
Ok....let's all breathe a minute and calm down just a bit.

First, saying she gave the dose at 1pm does not tell us anything since we are all in different time zones. How many hours since she gave the dose? The reason I ask is because if it's just been a few hours, we need to use HC food since we don't know anything about her kitty. If it's been 9 hours, then she might be able to get his numbers up with a low or medium carb food.

Assuming it might not have been that long since she gave the dose, I would suggest she give the kitty a tsp or so of HC gravy and retest in 30 minutes. If the kitty is still in the 40s, repeat...another tsp of HC gravy and retest in 30. The goal is to get the kitty up to a little bit higher numbers. Testing must keep occuring every 30 mins until she has two, rising, non food influenced numbers or until kitty goes up markedly. Remember HC gravy and karo can wear off and numbers can wobble back down.

There is a link to "Handling Low Numbers" in my signature block. Click on that and print it for your friend.

Please have her post the next number here. Thank you.

ETA: just saw your message. Because we have no data on this kitty, we don't know when he will nadir. He could nadir early, late, or this could be a bounce clearing cycle so he might continue to come down.
 
Yes, eastern standard..so it's only been about 3 hours...she hasn't done a curve so we don't have data...she's going to test when she gets back, that's be over an hour since last test, but a half hour since he ate last....i will post the number when she calls me.
 
Can you also please find out what kind of meter she is using? If she's using an Alpha Trak, the number (48) might be a little higher than what we'd see on a human meter. So we just need to know if we could potentially be dealing with a little lower number.

Also...do you know what she fed him before she left or did she give him any karo?
 
Yes, she uses the alpha trak meter and she gave him a little karo but he didn't have much. she fed him friskies mixed grill in pate, half can and he had the other half this morning..i'm not sure what size can.
 
she just got back, fed him turkey with cheese in gravy, going to wait 15 min and test...she's having a bbq and he's out, walking around, purring and greeting her friends...
 
Has she re-tested?

I'm concerned about the numbers. An AlphaTrack reads 30 points higher than a human meter. As a result, a 48 on her meter is a very low number. Is the cat showing any symptoms? She is going to need to be testing every 15 min. and if the numbers aren't budging, she needs to get her cat to the ER.

This is information on handling low numbers.

Depending on how she arrived at a 5.0u dose, this is a lot of insulin.
 
Ok....thank you.

Alpha Traks are made for cats but, at higher numbers, in general, read about 30 mg/dL higher than the human glucometers most of us use. At lower numbers, the difference is typically not as much but because we have no comparisons for her AT, we want to be sure this kitty's numbers come right up.

When she calls you with the number, if it is not up around 80, I'd like you to have her give her kitty a tsp of HC gravy with a couple drops of karo in it. Please be calm with her...we need her to think clearly and to just get the number up above 80. Also, tell her to retest in 20 after the gravy/karo and let us know.

When she calls you with the number, if it is lower than the 48, please tell her to take the kitty to the ER. OK? Just to be safe because we have no data for this kitty and lantus hypos can last a long time.

ETA: just saw your post that she's back. Please have her test now....do not wait any longer regardless of what kitty is doing.
 
She'll be retesting in about 10 min...no symptoms... i kind of told her at 48 to take him and explained what can happen if her cat hypos...but she is in the middle of people at her house...but if it drops more, i will tell her that it is crucial to get him to the vet.
 
Please have her get him to the ER now. He is dangerously low. Please tell her that he can seem fine but he can begin to have seizures. He needs to be on a glucose drip.
 
A 29 on an AlphaTrack meter is a life threateningly low number. These are dropping numbers. They are not stabilizing. By the time your friend decides something is wrong, her cat could be dead or suffer irreparable brain damage. Sorry to be blunt but this can't be managed at home. Her cat needs to be on an IV dextrose drip.
 
i have just explained everything to her and told her if it was me, i would take him but based on the fact that he's eating and acting normal, she's not sure what to do...i am prepared with what to do if he should hypo and told her it could happen very quickly..i gave her the number of the emergency vet, there's really nothing more i can say to her...i already told her how serious this is...i will keep everyone posted. thank you for all your help.
 
OMG 5 units twice a day? Get her on this board, will she come read us? She needs to drop that kitty most likely. I'm so tired of these ignorant vets overdosing our cats. :( My Shane Sebastian has been on 0.25 units once a day for 6 months and very regulated...the vet had hm on 2.5 units BID and sent him into hypo the day I picked him up.
 
i agree with everyone...there is only so much one person can tell another, but i have told her about the curve and explained it and told her to go to this website, i don't know...i think 5 units twice is way too much and told her that the minute i found out...i even told her that my Sylvester went into remission because of this board, but i can't keep begging her to do this..
 
We just had a kitty in the lantus TR ISG the other day who tested at a 24 on a human meter. We told her to take him to the ER because one big dollop of karo had no effect on his numbers. He was in the hospital two days and on the second day, had a seizure. The vets had a difficult time keeping his numbers up with the IV drip but they finally succeeded. He got to go home. He was a lucky one because his mom responded immediately.

We know you are trying and you have done all you can do. Please let us know.
 
sorry to vent, but i also feel that when this happened 11 days ago, she brought him to the vet, they put him on a drip, she picked him up and they said he's fine. she never asked and wasn't told what happened, so in her mind, i think she thinks he was fine last week, he'll be fine again...i said they didn't tell you to lower the dose or check his bg or anything? Nothing..and this is the first time she tested him since then because she just gave him a break. so at 1 p.m, she fed him, realized she never gave him a shot, gave him the shot and then tested and he was 113...this is like diabetes 101, NO INSULIN...hopefully this will all work out and she will finally work with me...i just don't understand.
 
Any update on the latest test after the 29? This is so scary, for me. I would be testing every 10 minutes until he's way higher. The kitty isn't even at nadir yet, probably. Cats love to interupt your plans. I guess you can't go over to her house to lend a hand with her cat?
 
You've done everything you can. This has got to feel horrible for you -- you understand the consequences. Your friend doesn't. Thank you for trying to intervene with her.
 
she just called me, she's on her way to the ER!!! i told her we are going to work on this together going forward....thank you all so much...this is the best website any cat owner faced with this can have...i can breathe now because i know he'll be in good hands. This is the ER that helped my Sylvester until he went to the Rainbow Bridge and helped my mom's dog Fairway to the Rainbow Bridge...
 
YAY!! Good job!!! Please keep us updated.

Could you please take the 911 off now? Thank you so much.

I'm so sorry your Sylvester crossed the Bridge....and your mom's dog, too. wings_cat
 
hi everyone, so the update is the cat never hypo'd... she took him to the vet and when they left bg was 74....no insulin last night and this morning bg was 113...i told her no insulin and take another reading at lunchtime...two times with no insulin for 18 hours....
 
that's good news.

certainly better than the alternative.
You did the right thing and it could have been worse. I hope she will continue to listen to you and learn more about what she is doing.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top