Kitty Cat 9/17 dose reduction following hypo

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Christina & Kitty Cat

Christina & Kitty Cat

Member Since 2020
Previous thread
PM+11 is 400.

History:
9/13 keytones small
9/15 hypoglycemia
9/16 reduced from 1u lantus to 0.5 AM & PM

Having trouble getting in touch with vet. What should I do about insulin dose now regarding reduction?
Carryover from previous post, @Wendy&Neko Does this advice still stand?

Wendy&Neko said:
I'm going to be a contrarian and say that tomorrow you should shoot 0.75 units. Kitty Cat earned a 0.25 unit reduction yesterday. With recent ketones, I wouldn't reduce by 0.5 units.
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I wish I was more educated but I would be inclined to agree with Wendy. I am a veteran of this site but by no means an "expert".
If you are worried about hypo ( as I would be) go with the safe dose. You have everything you needs should Kitty go low and know how to use, But I would be worried about the keytones
 
I'm ordering better syringes with half/quarter lines today, but for now i'm still estimating.

Not sure what kind of syringes you have or that you're ordering but I'd like to suggest you get calipers. So much easier to get a consistent dose than to rely on the lines on the syringes. Since most syringes are at best 'irregular' the lines on one are not the same as the lines on the next.

I use these and highly recommend.

https://www.harborfreight.com/hand-...rs-micrometer/4-in-digital-caliper-63710.html
 
Sue and Luci said:
I'm ordering better syringes with half/quarter lines today, but for now i'm still estimating.

Not sure what kind of syringes you have or that you're ordering but I'd like to suggest you get calipers. So much easier to get a consistent dose than to rely on the lines on the syringes. Since most syringes are at best 'irregular' the lines on one are not the same as the lines on the next.

I use these and highly recommend.

https://www.harborfreight.com/hand-...rs-micrometer/4-in-digital-caliper-63710.html
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I got these care point ones after seeing the sticky notes. Just ordered them so for now I only have syringes with full unit lines. If I get this caliper instead though, I wouldn't even need the new syringes right...? Maybe I'll cancel to try to save $
 
Christina & Kitty Cat said:
Just heard back from the vet. she said to put him back on 1u 2x day, not 0.75u, to get out of the 400s. Does this sound okay to you guys?
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I would not give 1 unit. It caused a hypo. I would give .75. Make a sample with an old syringe to use so your .75 is consistent as possible. If there’s a Walmart nearby I would buy a Box with 1/2 Unit markings later today. I wanted your vet to say whether to increase but that increase he recommended is dangerous in my opinion.
 
There was actually a kitty at the vet for a dental - the tech checked BG and said it's 'too high'...yep, that's common for kitties at the vet - and they gave her insulin! Against the express request of the kitty's mama NOT TO DO THAT.

Vets and their techs do not have a good understanding of FD and they seem to think that the answer to high numbers is always to give a 'standard' dose... and the subsequent crashes are not a thing you want to deal with.

Try to be as consistent as possible with your dosing (I saw a 0 a few days ago, but do not have the history on that)...

Just take your time, be consistent with the dosing and try to read up on the stickies as much as you can!
Christina & Kitty Cat said:
If I get this caliper instead though, I wouldn't even need the new syringes right...? Maybe I'll cancel to try to save $
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Yes once you start using calipers the lines don't matter much. And you'll be able to do fine dosing much easier. Each brand of syringe may require different settings on the calipers - there's info on how to use them here.
https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/dosing-with-calipers-updated-w-videos.79851/
 
Christina & Kitty Cat said:
Yes! sorry I haven't done that yet.
AMPS is 418, not much different from an hour ago. vet hasn't called back yet. I'm giving 0.75u (to the best of my ability) and will explain to vet I don't want another hypo scare.
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If your vet gets upset let him know several people stayed up all night with you and got Kitty back to SAFE levels.

We have been bashed, talked down to, and dismissed before but what shines is our successes.
 
from vet: "Yes, I saw the email about the hypoglycemia. If the sugar is 100 or so, I would not give 1U, but if it is 400, I would give 1U. It is just very strange for the glucose to be 400-500 one day after 1U and then hypoglycemic another day, so I was going to try to consult with an internist and get back to you."

so I told her I will keep recording and give some numbers in a few hours if she can still consult with the internist for his PM dose.

For times like these, I'm assuming it's better to underdose than overdose to be cautious? That the line of reasoning here for the 0.75u right? It totally makes sense to me but I do want be respectful of the vet and explain to her everything going on and reasons behind going against her rec.
 
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Christina & Kitty Cat said:
If the sugar is 100 or so, I would not give 1U, but if it is 400, I would give 1U. It is just very strange for the glucose to be 400-500 one day after 1U and then hypoglycemic another day,
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Oh lord...

It's not 'strange' around here...

Kitties have various reactions to insulin...and the bounce around like they're on pogo sticks.

I learned very early on that my vet (who recommended euthanasia btw, rather than trying to give her insulin) knew nothing whatsoever about FD. Please, for goodness sake stop relying on your vet for assistance with this disease.

It is completely treatable and your kitty can have a long and happy life - however vets know so little about FD it's not funny...they just don't get the training in school about it...and have little to no time to read updated information about treating feline diabetes...

Please read the stickies, take a deep breath and get your 'determination' hat on to help your kitty. I decided not to listen to my vet at that time, or much of what any vet has said to me since then (almost 3 years now) about Luci's diabetes. As it turned out I learned more from this group than they have time to even think about.

I don't mean to sound harsh, but my experience with vets has been less than impressive...and I do not discuss Luci's care with them when I take her in for other things (like last year she broke her foot, had her dental and labs, etc.) but other than to tell them that I am taking care of her diabetes and we're using (whatever insulin we were on at the time)...I really don't want to discuss that with them.

Christina & Kitty Cat said:
I do want be respectful of the vet and explain to her everything going on and reasons behind going against her rec.
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I'm not disrespectful toward my vets at all...they ask, I tell them and when they say, oh bring her in for a curve, fructosamine, call me for dosing advice, etc. I just smile and say 'thank you'...and let it go at that...pay my bill and leave with my kitty...end of story.

You are PAYING her for taking care of your cat - in this respect she cannot possibly earn that money...so be kind to yourself and stop listening to your vet - on this topic anyway...
 
Sue and Luci said:
Oh lord...

It's not 'strange' around here...

Kitties have various reactions to insulin...and the bounce around like they're on pogo sticks.

I learned very early on that my vet (who recommended euthanasia btw, rather than trying to give her insulin) knew nothing whatsoever about FD. Please, for goodness sake stop relying on your vet for assistance with this disease.

It is completely treatable and your kitty can have a long and happy life - however vets know so little about FD it's not funny...they just don't get the training in school about it...and have little to no time to read updated information about treating feline diabetes...

Please read the stickies, take a deep breath and get your 'determination' hat on to help your kitty. I decided not to listen to my vet at that time, or much of what any vet has said to me since then (almost 3 years now) about Luci's diabetes. As it turned out I learned more from this group than they have time to even think about.

I don't mean to sound harsh, but my experience with vets has been less than impressive...and I do not discuss Luci's care with them when I take her in for other things (like last year she broke her foot, had her dental and labs, etc.) but other than to tell them that I am taking care of her diabetes and we're using (whatever insulin we were on at the time)...I really don't want to discuss that with them.



I'm not disrespectful toward my vets at all...they ask, I tell them and when they say, oh bring her in for a curve, fructosamine, call me for dosing advice, etc. I just smile and say 'thank you'...and let it go at that...pay my bill and leave with my kitty...end of story.

You are PAYING her for taking care of your cat - in this respect she cannot possibly earn that money...so be kind to yourself and stop listening to your vet - on this topic anyway...
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Thank you for this <3 I think it's how I've been feeling but am too afraid to say it...
I'm going through all the stickies and highlighting clear steps for myself in case of a panic like the hypo the other night.
He had such high numbers up until this point so I wasn't prepared for a sudden low.
 
I tend to go with Sue. HereS my experience with Trouble. It has somewhat of a different spin but in the end...same
When our Vet DX'd Trouble with diabetes we got the "usual" instructions. 2 units twice a day 12 hrs apart (which is in itself incredible because the insulin prescribes was NPH a very HARSH insulin; testing wasnt even on the vets radar)
We went home and administered 2 units. Trouble did fine until the second dose. It was then I decided to take charge. Trouble was acting "off" and worse than before he went to the vet. I found FDMB. The first thing I was told here is "Your vet doesnt know anything about FD" So here I am in tears trying to figure out who was right. I called my vet and she said bring him in RIGHT NOW. I did.
He tested in the 100 range and she looked perplexed. It was then I told her about this site. At first she poo pooed it internet trolls she said. Well THAT certainly didnt make me feel ANY better. I came home and got on this computer and back to FDMB

A member names Ken and Sneakers(LOVE YOU TO THE MOON AND BACK KEN) helped me get Trouble in safe number with the guidelines set here. Taught me how to buy a meter and start testing. I started recording Troubles numbers in a little book and TOOK that book back to my vet. It was then she admitted she didnt know very much about FD (her own cat had FD) I gave her the addy to this site and she called me back the next day saying she came here read and agrees with everything she saw here! She was so excited and actually THANKED me. This was over 10 years ago. Trouble is LONG gone rest his sweet soul. But he taught me and my vet that FD is NOT a death sentence. and that EVERYONE affected by FD has room to learn.

BTW due to the excellent advice I received here Trouble went into remission

sorry this is so long winded. Grateful if you read it to the end because theres always room for learning.
jeanne
 
jt and trouble (GA) said:
I tend to go with Sue. HereS my experience with Trouble. It has somewhat of a different spin but in the end...same
When our Vet DX'd Trouble with diabetes we got the "usual" instructions. 2 units twice a day 12 hrs apart (which is in itself incredible because the insulin prescribes was NPH a very HARSH insulin; testing wasnt even on the vets radar)
We went home and administered 2 units. Trouble did fine until the second dose. It was then I decided to take charge. Trouble was acting "off" and worse than before he went to the vet. I found FDMB. The first thing I was told here is "Your vet doesnt know anything about FD" So here I am in tears trying to figure out who was right. I called my vet and she said bring him in RIGHT NOW. I did.
He tested in the 100 range and she looked perplexed. It was then I told her about this site. At first she poo pooed it internet trolls she said. Well THAT certainly didnt make me feel ANY better. I came home and got on this computer and back to FDMB

A member names Ken and Sneakers(LOVE YOU TO THE MOON AND BACK KEN) helped me get Trouble in safe number with the guidelines set here. Taught me how to buy a meter and start testing. I started recording Troubles numbers in a little book and TOOK that book back to my vet. It was then she admitted she didnt know very much about FD (her own cat had FD) I gave her the addy to this site and she called me back the next day saying she came here read and agrees with everything she saw here! She was so excited and actually THANKED me. This was over 10 years ago. Trouble is LONG gone rest his sweet soul. But he taught me and my vet that FD is NOT a death sentence. and that EVERYONE affected by FD has room to learn.

BTW due to the excellent advice I received here Trouble went into remission

sorry this is so long winded. Grateful if you read it to the end because theres always room for learning.
jeanne
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Jeanne THANK YOU FOR SHARING THIS. It's really helpful to hear. Quite ironic that your vet also had a diabetic cat and came here for help. It's great that she was able to acknowledge her lack of experience and was open to learning for the sake of the kitties. Also THANK YOU Sue!!!

I FEEL TERRIBLE for shooting 1u the other night after getting 56 and thinking it was a fluke. I tested 100+ 2 minutes later but had already put down his food and he started eating. I need to get better at getting him to calm down when testing when he's sooo hungry. Haven't successfully been able to burrito him. So I was using food to get him to stay still and trying to get a prick in just before the first bite. I have the low numbers sticky printed out now.

I've also found a ball of poop outside his litter box twice so far (one on the floor and one on a chair). Never saw him do it though. I saw some people having problems with inappropriate pooping habits on here and I'm worried this will become a bigger problem soon.
 
You don't want to even hear any more horror stories about poor advice vets give...you're in the right place now.

We all had the same disbelief in the beginning! My vet said the same thing - he actually WARNED me not to seek advice from that inter-web! And when I went back with several print-outs from this site, he disregarded them completely! Second vet did the same thing...pointed out that these people here are not trained professionals...it was then that I realized they were protecting themselves...I mean what doctor is going to tell you to go seek out advice on the web???

But in this case, these folks here have more experience than all of the vets I've seen put together.

So, please do come over to the Lantus board and join us there - tons and tons of experienced people there - more eyes on you and KittyCat...more helpers, more opinions and suggestions - this isn't a science, but it sure has helped a whole lot of kitties get better!
 
If they were just little balls of poop it could be they just some how got stuck to his fur and dropped where they dropped . I woulndt get too upset.
Heres another Trouble story...lol... He tested at 300 one day and I administered 2U his usual dose. Came back here and posted what I had done. (mind you we didnt have spreadsheets back then) I got admonished and talked to very harshly that I probably OD'd my cat.
Well Trouble was fine he tested in the normal range hours later.

We ALL make mistakes or even bold ones. It happens... the difference is, beating yourself up over what was, or just digging in and going forward.
To me there IS only one direction to go. ;):coffee:
j
 
btw, go here: https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/ and scroll through all the groups until you get to
Lantus / Basaglar (glargine) and Levemir (detemir) - there are lots of kitties and beans there - so read as many condos as you can; look at their SS's - you'll see a variety of kitties who have been where you are now...super high...and many who are low...all over the place.

I found it so helpful to peruse other's condos and Spreadsheets. I could see how they were handling situations and numbers...and what they were feeding, when they were testing. It's all there! And we share it all with each other.:D

I'm in another forum now - Luci and I are in the Tresiba forum - stop by and say hi :) It's a lonely forum... LOL!:joyful:
 
Update from vet again since I did already ask her to go ahead and speak to the internist. Internist said keep at 0.5u over the weekend and if he is still hypoglycemic or not doing well, to go in to the internist at blue pearl hospital instead of primary vet. So obviously very conflicting opinions on their end that AREN'T MAKING ME FEEL GOOD AT ALL!!!
I'm going to test every 2 hrs today so I have some more data going forward. Will start a new thread on the Lantus form with his numbers since this will now be a dosing specific call for help.
 
Sue and Luci said:
btw, go here: https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/ and scroll through all the groups until you get to
Lantus / Basaglar (glargine) and Levemir (detemir) - there are lots of kitties and beans there - so read as many condos as you can; look at their SS's - you'll see a variety of kitties who have been where you are now...super high...and many who are low...all over the place.

I found it so helpful to peruse other's condos and Spreadsheets. I could see how they were handling situations and numbers...and what they were feeding, when they were testing. It's all there! And we share it all with each other.:D

I'm in another forum now - Luci and I are in the Tresiba forum - stop by and say hi :) It's a lonely forum... LOL!:joyful:
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great advice, thank you! and will do :)
 
Christina & Kitty Cat said:
It is just very strange for the glucose to be 400-500 one day after 1U and then hypoglycemic another day, so I was going to try to consult with an internist and get back to you."
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Not strange at all. Neko earned her first reduction (going under 50 as I followed TR) by starting the day at 430, and was back up in the 300's by 12 hours later. It is very common for newly diagnosed cats to drop and bounce. We can show you tons of spreadsheet of cats doing just that. It is one of many reasons we are advocates of home testing and getting tests at night.

I'm glad you shot the 0.75 units. Sorry, I wasn't on earlier. If it had been a normal day without thick forest fire smoke around (can you tell I'm tired of it!), I would have been out on the water exercising. My hours on here are odd.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
Not strange at all. Neko earned her first reduction (going under 50 as I followed TR) by starting the day at 430, and was back up in the 300's by 12 hours later. It is very common for newly diagnosed cats to drop and bounce. We can show you tons of spreadsheet of cats doing just that. It is one of many reasons we are advocates of home testing and getting tests at night.

I'm glad you shot the 0.75 units. Sorry, I wasn't on earlier. If it had been a normal day without thick forest fire smoke around (can you tell I'm tired of it!), I would have been out on the water exercising. My hours on here are odd.
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Thank you for giving the 0.75u advice. It felt right. Sorry you're dealing with forest fires :(( hope the air clears up soon.
About night tests, since he's due for a ondansetron at PM+2 for the next few days, I will get a reading at that time. But also know now that I do need to sleep to save up energy in the event of another hypo kind of night. Reading all the stickies now to be aware of all the scenarios we might encounter.
 
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