Kitty 7/2 amps +3 +6 +8 pmps +3 +5 deep blue

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kse

kse

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7/1
445. Ugh....... Shot 4.5
+3. 268
+5.5. 187


7/2
Amps 424. Shot 4.5. (shot felt "weird"--not wet)
+3. 281. Had a snack LC FF
+6. 221
+8. 358. Very little duration

Pmps. 418. Shot a REALLY FAT 4.5 (maybe more U40s?)
+3. 236. 45 percent drop
+5. 146 65 percent drop






Good Morning All!

We are back in the red preshots-- but, we are getting movement. Hopefully, the preshots will come down-- I hate the Red preshots.

The shot felt a little "weird" this morning-- but, it wasn 't wet.
 
Re: Kitty 7/2 amps +3

Kitty sure does like being stubborn! I have no advice, of course. @-)
 
Re: Kitty 7/2 amps +3

Well--i shot more in the flank/front leg today and it just felt weird pushing in. I even wondered if I fur shot, but the +3 discounts that. It pushed in real easy-- maybe new skin, that I haven't been shooting. Just different feeling....
 
Re: Kitty 7/2 amps +3

I just noticed that...you have a +3 already???? Man you get up early!
 
Re: Kitty 7/2 amps +3

Yes---early, can't let the world Pass you by!

I am getting ready to cut the grass -- the neighbors will LOVE me!
 
Re: Kitty 7/2 amps +3

Yeah, I would be yelling at you! I've never been a morning person. Hey, go look at my thread...about drawing extra insulin & pushing it back in the vial.
 
Re: Kitty 7/2 amps +3

I think that if you find the loosest, thinest skin to inject into the insulin will absorb better.

I'm shooting Harley in the shoulder area too, there is a lot of loose skin there, also behind the arm. The needle does go in smoother I think because it isn't trying to go through a layer of fat.
 
Re: Kitty 7/2 amps +3

My neighbor across the street isn't a morning person, she will call and leave hate messages about how they are trying to sleep and we need to keep it down, at 9:30 am :shock:
 
Re: Kitty 7/2 amps +3

Rob & Harley said:
My neighbor across the street isn't a morning person, she will call and leave hate messages about how they are trying to sleep and we need to keep it down, at 9:30 am :shock:
Click to expand...

I can't believe she calls you! :lol: What the heck are you doing to make so much noise? :lol:
 
Re: Kitty 7/2 amps +3

Mowing the lawn, dog barking, riding dirt bikes with the kids, drinking coffee while talking, laughing.

One time I suggested that if they went and got jobs during the day maybe they wouldn't stay up all night drinking and our daily activities wouldn't bother them so much. :o She stopped calling and leaving me messages and started calling the police, dog catcher and city officials instead. They finally got tired of her too so now she doesn't call anyone (anti jinx).
 
Re: Kitty 7/2 amps +3

I have one looney a$$ neighbor too! No one would believe the stories!!!
 
Re: Kitty 7/2 amps +3

It will be interesting to see if she is a kitty who really reacts to lower numbers, or if she just really responded to a new vial. If the first, this bounce/training should clear at some point soon, hopefully.

I do like that you are getting very brave about being a little more aggressive with your dosing. I think we advice givers sometimes err on the side of caution. I know I tend to be too timid. I worry that it is not my cat and so want to be careful.

You go girl! Looking good. :-D
 
Re: Kitty 7/2 amps +3

kse said:
I have one looney a$$ neighbor too! No one would believe the stories!!!
Click to expand...


We'll have to swap stories sometime. No one at work believes me about her. One day I said to my son "I think she's crazy", he gave me a blank stare and said "Really? You just now thought that?" :lol: :lol:
 
Re: Kitty 7/2 amps +3

I have a neighbor who thinks one of our other neighbors stole her dog and had it's hair cut and dyed and now calls it their own. It's a completely different size and kind of dog, but she thinks it's her dog. ohmygod_smile
 
Re: Kitty 7/2 amps +3 +6

+6. 221. 48 percent drop

Since the dental she hasn't acted like she felt too good-- except when she was on the Bup.

She just lays around with her head on the floor-- except at feed time. I am going to give the methyl b12 a shot and see if she is having some nerve issues in her back legs. I am not sure what is going on-- bloodwork checks out ok. She came off of the ab early after the dental-- due to the reaction.

I also think the curve is a little shallow-- but, I don't want to create a big bounce. It does look like she is very consistent in her curves.

Thoughts?
 
Re: Kitty 7/2 amps +3 +6

I would give the new dose some time to settle in. You are getting a nice U curve, and not seeing any real new dose wonkyness.
 
Re: Kitty 7/2 amps +3 +6

I am the neighbor who likes to sleep in .... when you stay up to 1 or 2AM, sleeping in some is gold! But I don't yell at people or call agencies .... although I do have these little dolls with pins I do use sometimes! :twisted:

Kim, I don't like who laying with her head down ..... is she still in pain? Payne acts like that when she is hurting, have you ruled out pain?
 
Re: Kitty 7/2 amps +3 +6

No, I haven't ruled out pain.

In fact, I think it is pain--- just what kind?

Arthritis? Nerve? Bone graph area?

Ketones neg.
No UTI spymptoms

I don't know!

Is there anything generic I can give for pain?
 
Re: Kitty 7/2 amps +3 +6

Will they give you more Bupe to try & see if she does better with that? You have to be really careful what pain meds you give to cats, their livers process things differently than ours do, and I know some of them (i.e. human OTC ones) can be fatal.

Weird how she got a huge response that one cycle and already by shot two it was tamer. What's up with that? New vial can't be pooping out already? I think you are right that 1st cycle after the green night was probably liver training reaction, and then the cycle the next night was probably the dose too low. But now you are on 4.5 and it already looks like the dose may be too low?

My only thought is that her body is really getting ahead of the dose quickly, so after that night on the 4.2 it said "ha ha, I'm not letting THAT happen again", and now she is already ahead of 4.5 and will likely need more insulin to get back to the greens. That is super-liver-training I guess, her liver is just a sneaky one maybe! Just speculation.

Anyhow, I would hold any dose for 4 cycles before raising, and longer if the numbers are wonky or if you are seeing increasingly good results. If at 4 cycles (and good to get a nadir test on cycle 4), they are getting a nice U-curve but the numbers are still too high and there's no sign of the nadirs getting lower at that point, then I would bump up the dose. I think with her you may need to move a little quickly like that to stay ahead of her liver.
 
Re: Kitty 7/2 amps +3 +6

Has she been back to the vet for them to re-evaluate how she is healing after that bone graft? Will she let you open her mouth to check things out? How long has she been off of antibiotics? I am wondering if the bone graft isn't taking its own sweet time in healing and maybe a mild infection has set in since stopping the ab's.
 
Re: Kitty 7/2 amps +3 +6

I agree she is like Shaikha, she uses insulin like jet fuel! I would hold the dose through a few 3-4 cycles and call the vet if you can. (sure 4th. July week-end) Kim didn't you get pain meds. before? can you take a pic. of how she is? and post?

My morning people are home from farmers market, so a big breakfast with farm fresh eggs, yum ......
 
Re: Kitty 7/2 amps +3 +6 +8

+8 357

Duration stinks!!! That wasn't the first word I typed!
 
Re: Kitty 7/2 amps +3 +6 +8

I have looked at her mouth--- not red or inflamed.

I asked my vet if their could be an infection-- she said if so, it probably would not be in her blood yet-- and a test wouldn't show it???????

She is eating good and showing no sign of mouth pain.

She acts like it is her back legs---neuropathy???

Kelly--- did you send the MB12?
 
Re: Kitty 7/2 amps +3 +6 +8

Yes, a test should show an infection, geez.

Neuropathy or arthritus. If I remember you didn't start the dasequan because of potential side effects, maybe you should go straight to the Adequan injections. They have really helped Harley.
 
Re: Kitty 7/2 amps +3 +6 +8

She is grooming and acting okay right now.

I want to increase tonight if she is in the 400s-- heaven forbid if it is inthe 500s

Not even 9 hours and she is too high!

Maybe I could just buy 365 vials and use a new one each day......
 
Re: Kitty 7/2 amps +3 +6 +8

I asked the vet Wednesday about the Adequin injections---- she looked like a deer in headlights.


Maybe I will run her to the ER and get a blood test this afternoon.


I really think I might should take her to the vet school in Raleigh for evaluation.

Ugh.............
 
Re: Kitty 7/2 amps +3 +6 +8

Having her evaluated at the vet school might be a good idea. At least they will give her a good exam and they have probably heard of Adequan.
 
Re: Kitty 7/2 amps +3 +6 +8

I just called my illustrious vet....She has never used adequan on a cat--- she will have to research it! While she is looking that up on the vet webpage, she also is going to check on the Methyl B12 for me!!!

Vet..."No need to do a bloodtest, she is certain the problem is her absorption of the insulin--no infection!"

Vet ..."Quit testing so much-- quality of life issues!"

Vet...Lantus is an option....but, there could be issues there-- she didn't say what they would be....

Vet..."No to tid---A Lot of complications and risk......!!!!"

Looks like I am going to have to move to MN or California-- so I can get vet help! Not sure I could continue my work out there!

I really want to increase tonight--
 
Re: Kitty 7/2 amps +3 +6 +8

Pmps 418--

Trying to decide on dose-- I know y'all are the experts-- but, it is obvious to me she has the perfect little curve -- just not enough drop.

I want to increase -- but, y'all say no......thinking....

Are these high Preshots bounce/liver????? Is more worse?!
 
Re: Kitty 7/2 amps +3 +6 +8 pmps

Kitty really does have the perfect PZI curve-- nadir at +6... Just perfect-- bookend preshots... Just too high!

I shot a REALLY FAT 4.5. -- maybe more .. U40s-- hard to tell! But, less than 5!

Not enough.......
 
Re: Kitty 7/2 amps +3 +6 +8

kse said:
Vet ..."Quit testing so much-- quality of life issues!"

Looks like I am going to have to move to MN or California-- so I can get vet help! Not sure I could continue my work out there!
Click to expand...

What does she mean by that? She thinks you're worrying Kitty to death?

Yeah, I don't think you could find a job out there! :lol:
 
Re: Kitty 7/2 amps +3 +6 +8 pmps

Your vet sounds more psychic than book learned or maybe inexperienced and afraid to venture out of her comfort zone of knowledge.

I think that you should start eliminating everything that might be keeping her bg's high.

1) Infection
2) Dental bone graft
3) Arthritus pain

Anyone remember anything else to add to the list?

You can get the Methyl B-12 at a health food store or vitamin store or on the internet.

I forgot to add that I think you would be a good candidate for Lantus, it gives a much flatter curve, and you are around to test.
 
Re: Kitty 7/2 amps +3 +6 +8 pmps

I have the methy B12 on the way.

Lantus? I've been lurking around LL-- whew, not sure I'd last!

I'm not ready to give up on PZ-- my work schedule is getting ready to increase drastically... I won't be able to test as much. Hang with me and let's try to figure it out... Just not at Kitty's expense. But, I'm not ready to throw in the PZI cards yet.

I noticed on the lower doses, we got little drop, pretty flat-- but the preshots were lower. I think we are trading the blues for higher preshots. Not ideal-- but, i am crazy enough to think the PZ might work.

I think I will take her for an evaluation with a different vet Tuesday.
 
Re: Kitty 7/2 amps +3 +6 +8 pmps

I like the idea of taking her to the vet school, maybe some more modern thinking going on there. Maybe they will be willing to test her for everything on your list too.
 
Re: Kitty 7/2 amps +3 +6 +8 pmps

Vet school and testing probably a good idea--- I just need to prepare myself mentally for the possible answers.
 
Re: Kitty 7/2 amps +3 +6 +8 pmps

kse said:
I noticed on the lower doses, we got little drop, pretty flat-- but the preshots were lower. I think we are trading the blues for higher preshots.
Click to expand...

I think that's fairly common, I have seen that a lot both with PZI and with Vetsulin. I think some of it is liver training, which you would get on any insulin, but I think some of it comes from the steeper drops, it just can trigger some rebound. I know there were people on Vetsulin who got bounces whenever they shot enough insulin, and flatter yellows & such with lower doses, but not good enough numbers. Switched to Ls and did a lot better. And it definitely seems like a PZI theme for some cats, though perhaps not the extent of a problem as with Vetsulin.

Bix was lucky I guess b/c he got really good duration, so as I raised his dose his PSs came down, once I got to a dose that shot the cr*p out of the liver training factor. But a lot of cats you can never get there. Bix got shallow curves for the most part - if you are getting a deep drop, either to a good nadir, or from a high PS, you can't necessarily raise any further. If you *can* raise enough to improve the duration and get better PSs then it can work well - we have seen that sometimes it seems like with Kitty, but other times not.

What are your thoughts on giving TID a try? Does your schedule permit? It's hard work, but a number of people have found if they do that they get much better numbers, and/or after a few weeks can go back to BID. I don't think I would be up to it myself, but more power to anyone who is.
 
Re: Kitty 7/2 amps +3 +6 +8 pmps

Start making your list of questions and concerns so you don't leave anything out. Maybe you don't do this but I tend to forget things if I dont write them down.
 
Re: Kitty 7/2 amps +3 +6 +8 pmps

Another sane voice! thanks Joanna! try t.i.d. what do you have to lose?? BUT it would tell you what the problem is, even if you can't keep the schedule up!
 
Re: Kitty 7/2 amps +3 +6 +8 pmps

Well no one's ever accused me of being sane before... :lol: :lol: :lol: I stole the idea from someone else, so I can't take credit, but when Kim mentioned short duration and her vet thinking TID is risky, the :idea: went off!
 
Re: Kitty 7/2 amps +3 +6 +8 pmps

Problem is? Please explain-- I don't understand
 
Re: Kitty 7/2 amps +3 +6 +8 pmps

t.i.d. ......
Take the total amount of insulin Kitty is getting daily, let's say 8u .... divide that into three doses or 2.6u each dose. Start your first dose same time in AM then eight hours later give second dose of 2.6u and then eight hrs. later last dose 2.6u. So you have AM/Mid/PM shots ....

It really isn't complicated just time consuming but since you spend all that time worrying ..... ohmygod_smile
 
Re: Kitty 7/2 amps +3 +6 +8 pmps +3

+3. 236---45 percent

She definitely is reacting to the insulin..... I shot in the shoulder tonight and maybe a little more than 4.5. The drop is a little steeper tonight.... Good... Bad... We'll see!

Maybe I should take a friend's advice and quit testing tonight and go out!
 
Re: Kitty 7/2 amps +3 +6 +8 pmps +3

By "problem" I think Nancy meant why you aren't getting a better or more consistent response, or why on days like today she may get a drop, but doesn't keep it. TID would tell you if short duration is the issue. (Correct me Nancy if I got that wrong!)

Yes, go out and have FUN!!!!!!!!! I wouldn't be worried about low numbers from here. Data is great, but you can get data tomorrow!
 
Re: Kitty 7/2 amps +3 +6 +8 pmps +3

We can't let this consume our lives. We are doing the best we can for our kitties, but we have to do stuff for ourselves too. We've only been at this for a few months. We need to leave some energy for later on too.

I think you should go out!
 
Re: Kitty 7/2 amps +3 +6 +8 pmps +3

Me too! A little cafe by the bay, slight breeze on a sunny day, heaven! Everyone have a good evening!!
 
Re: Kitty 7/2 amps +3 +6 +8 pmps +3

With Rainbows and candles-- it does sound nice!

Where have you been Sue? I have gotten into this testing--took awhile didn't it? You tried to tell me-- I can be a little stubborn at times! Thanks for all your help!
 
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