Kitty 6/26 amps +4 pmps +3.25 +4.5

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kse

kse

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6/25

pmps 429 Shot 4.5


6/26

amps. 429 Shot 4.5
+4. 203


pmps. 494. Shot 4.7 (U40s? More than 4.5!)
+1.5. Fluids
+3.25. 297 dried chicken snack
+4.5. 254.

Okay, Kitty has the consistency part down-- same preshot for the last 2 cycles. Only problem is--- too high!!!

Still shooting out if the old vial. She gets fluids tonight-- that should help bring her down. I have increased to 4.5 and that probably still isn't enough.
 
Re: Kitty 6/26 amps +4

Ha! I went to bed early and for whatever reason woke up early!

I left the computer on last night and when I woke up and saw 43?? I really woke up!
 
Re: Kitty 6/26 amps +4

+4 203

I guess I will have to change her nick name from Cool Kitty to Consistent Kitty!
 
Re: Kitty 6/26 amps +4

It didn't seem like to me you went to bed early! Then it looked like you were responding in the middle of the night, which is a good thing! :lol: Yeah, I saw that also....I really hope she hasn't been giving insulin & he's ok!
 
Re: Kitty 6/26 amps +4

At lest she is consitent!
I have to ask though....why arent you using the new vile?
 
Re: Kitty 6/26 amps +4

Well, I am still getting decent movement on the old vial.

And, the first day after getting the new vial-- Kitty threw the curve ball of a 237 amps. Then, Kitty and I left yesterday morning to go away for the weekend and I decided not to travel with the new vial. It probably would have been ok-- but, just in case the temp. got off, I didn't want to risk damaging the new vial.

I don't want to use it tonight either, because she will get fluids---two unknown factors on one cycle. So, I probably
will start it Monday night,

Normally the new vials do make a positive difference on her bg.

And, last but not least --- I am very frugal!!!!
 
Re: Kitty 6/26 amps +4

Hope Cool Beach Kitty has a great day today!!!! We are jealous here! I'm only an hour from the beach, but ever since gas prices went up (and my funds went down) a while back, an hour seems SOOOOOOO far away! Maybe next weekend I should plan a trip....
 
Re: Kitty 6/26 amps +4

You take Kitty to the beach?!? I can only dream!

I got out the cat carrier yesterday evening and just sat it, with the door open, on the floor on the family room, and Alex stalked it for a while and then went back upstairs and stayed for the remainder of the evening. He typically sits with hubby while we watch TV, but the carrier, I suppose, was too intimidating.
 
Re: Kitty 6/26 amps +4

I used to leave the carriers out all the time with a cozy blanket in them, and after a while the cats started sleeping in them. It really worked great (til my alpha guy decided they needed marking :roll: )
 
Re: Kitty 6/26 amps +4

You know Kim, being consistent is not such a bad thing, for awhile. It gives you the time to collect data and when you are finally ready to be aggressive looking for her sweet spot, you will have all this great data! I think you are doing great! Nancy
 
Re: Kitty 6/26 amps +4 pmps

Well, so much for consistency! But, she is trying-- she just got the 2 and the 9 out of order.

pmps 492-- awful!

We drove up in the yard, unpacked the car and tested. Maybe a little stress-- but, not 492 points worth of stress. She did eat a little Grilled chicken off of my sandwich on the way home-- but, I wouldn't think that would effect her bg.

So, I sucked it up and shot 4.7. I have never shot that much, but I am getting kinda over these high preshots. She had to hit blue today-- she was 208 at +4. Do you think I am shooting a bounce or a true bg? She gets fluids tonight-- so she should come down a lot tonight.

I shot out if the old vial due to giving fluids tonight. Too many variables!

As much as I think I am gaining at times and then it is like the bottom falls out.

One more thing regarding traveling with cats-- Cool Kitty does not ride in the crate. She sleeps in the seat or the floorboard the entire trip (2:15 hours)! She really has earned her name of Cool Kitty!

Now--- HELP-- what would you do differently than I am doing to get Kitty's numbers down. No offense taken at any suggestions. And if you say increase units-- how much?!
 
Re: Kitty 6/26 amps +4 pmps

Ok, I'm finally going to say it, have you concidered having her tested for Acro? Maybe you should go over to the Acro board and read up on the signs of Acro. Does she snore? Does she have a big head or paws? It's just a thought but might be worth looking into or rule it out.
 
Re: Kitty 6/26 amps +4 pmps

THat is great that you can take her in the car for that long and she doesnt mind!
I am so jealous!

cant help with the dose though, sorry, too many variables for me to try to think...sorry
Hope she has a better night!
 
Re: Kitty 6/26 amps +4 pmps

Robin, I have read about acro a lot as her dose has continued to
Increase. I have looked for the symptoms in her-- but, haven't thought they fit. But, when you don't want something to be true-- you convince yourself of a lot of things.

I am going to read the "red flag" symptoms again and see if I am being realistic.

No, I really haven't considered testing her. But, maybe I should consider it.
 
Re: Kitty 6/26 amps +4 pmps

Some cats, Payne included, are just high dose cats and I would assume a high dose cat would be one of those cats that can easily DKA? I also went over acro but I didn't do the test because my vet feels she is just high dose and Payne doesn't have any of the acro stuff .... except the high insulin, she averages 12u a day.

I'm not saying she couldn't be, just saying Kitty might just need high doses of insulin .... and you can't beat yourself up over that.

I spent so much time searching for Payne's sweet spot, that I was missing what she needed, more insulin. I agree on your dose but I'm sure some is stress. Nancy
 
Re: Kitty 6/26 amps +4 pmps

Well, if you get the acro test done and she turns out to be acro, then you know that you can be more aggressive in increasing her dose.

Some kitties need a higher dose of insulin like Nancy says. Have you ever checked out my "numbers" page of my ss? If you want to compare your numbers with an acro kitty, do a search for Charliesmeow.
 
Re: Kitty 6/26 amps +4 pmps

I know, but as you are reaching 5 units I just thought I'd mention it as something to consider. Rule it in or out. If it is then you can increase with confidence.
 
Re: Kitty 6/26 amps +4 pmps

Okay, maybe I should get her tested for Acro. --- count it in or count it out.

I'm looking for the "red flag" symptoms in her..... I realize only a bloodtest can confirm or deny the diagnosis--BUT, if the physical symptoms were present...big head, big feet, enlarged tongue-- would these be pretty obvious. I am starring at her feet etc. trying to decide if they look big? I also know the physical symptoms are not always present.

She is only 9.4 lbs and weighed 10.2 before dx.of DM. She was 8.4 lbs. at dx. She has had no rapid weight gain.

Have you ever tried to talk yourself out if something?!!

I respect Robin's suggestion. Any other thoughts?
 
Re: Kitty 6/26 amps +4 pmps

Marcy's suggestion to research Charliesmeow is a good one. Claudia and Charlie were, in my experience our first Acro. There was alot of brainstorming, suggestions, questions, hand wringing, what ifs, etc.

Maybe you could get some info from her journey.
 
Re: Kitty 6/26 amps +4 pmps

I would keep at it with the dose. You are seeing good U-curves, and there were a few where you got a good drop. If you hit a point where the drops are too steep then you consider a longer-acting insulin. Since the nadirs are high though, there is oodles of room for a higher dose.

Other options are to shoot TID - that has worked really well for Wombat, but is difficult to manage from a scheduling & cost standpoint.

You could also try a different insulin if you wanted. That can be trading one set of problems for another, but you might find the protocol and wealth of advice on the Lantus board (not sure how the Lev board runs) helps you get the dose. They are pretty rigorous I think about the approach, we are more laid-back here, which can be a problem even if it is more comfy.

Or you can try adding a fast-acting insulin like R. Also comes with more testing though, and if you are struggling with feeling scared to shoot, I'm not sure that's a good solution for you.

I can tell you what I would do. I would go back to the dose where you got the drops that looked a hair steep and start there, and if the drops are still steep I would try to manage it with food. Then if the nadirs are still above 50 (which they surely will be), I would increase in 0.2 increments every 3rd day (work schedule permitting) until I was seeing the nadirs I want. Then if they are coming with steep drops I would reevaluate either shooting early, or switching insulins.

My guess is that if you can get her in better numbers she will be on a dose reduction path. We see it all the time that they get sort of "stuck" in higher #s and need more insulin to bring them down, but once in good #s, don't need as much insulin to sustain it. Just a guess though.
 
Re: Kitty 6/26 amps +4 pmps +3.25

+3.25. 297. 40 percent drop

Do you consider this steep or acceptable?


It normally takes longer than this for the fluids to have an impact.... "normally"-- whatever normal is!!!
 
Re: Kitty 6/26 amps +4 pmps +3.25

Normal is a setting on your washing machine.

40% at +3.25 is fine.

I'm going to go look back at your ss.
 
Re: Kitty 6/26 amps +4 pmps +3.25

I'm with you on the normal!!!!

I haven't updated the SS this weekend. But, it has followed the same trend as the previous entries.

Thanks for looking.
 
+4.5. 254. 50 percent drop


I am way to competitive for this challenge. Before I started testing regularly, I was kind of okay with what was happening---- whatever. But, not now.....I hate to lose or come in second. I need to realize I am doing all I can-- but, am I?
 
From what I've read, anything over about 100 points/hour (and you have to guess at when it's actually onset time) is too much. I have seen some say that the tolerance level is lower than that, but I don't know of any actual hard data on it. ECID would apply I guess - you can look back at early cycles and see if she bounced from a steep drop or not. Of course that doesn't necessarily mean it feels good even if they don't bounce. I wouldn't really worry about it too much really. The goal is to get the PSs lower and then the steepness is not an ongoing issue. I would pick a time like maybe +2 or +2.5 and give her a small meal each cycle to slow the drop just in case (rather than necessarily testing every cycle, though of course you can do that if it works for you!). Well actually I would just free-feed and let her control it herself. :-D

If you can stair step them down from the higher PSs that is nice, but it's hard to really control the #s (is that the understatement of the year? ohmygod_smile ), and if you are going to do that you need to stay with the dose as the PSs come down in order to continue the stairstepping. So on that theory you might stick with say 4.25 and not raise when you get a higher PS, but if you get better PSs you have to stay with the dose or they'll just get back high again. Then if you can gradually step it down to a 150 PS, then you lower the dose a hair b/c you don't want to stair step down any further, from there you want level PSs from shot to shot. Easier said than actually done. Bix certainly never got #s that worked that way, but some cats do.
 
If you're serious then I think you need to shoot through all the crappy numbers to the breakthrough. Read up on insulin resistance also. That is another thing to concider with Ms. Kitty.
 
Free feeding is not a problem, but I am afraid the civvies will eat all the food! So, I can't be assured any food would be available for her. The civvies pretty much snarf up all the food--- they were rescues and remember being hungry. They don't leave much!
 
I am serious-- I think I have proven that last few weeks.

So explain-- shoot through the crappy numbers. I increased tonight-- so just how do I shoot through the crappy numbers?

I have read about insulin resistance, cushings, hyper T and anything else that I could research that could possibly be contributing to the poor response. I have read for 4 months. And, here we are-- 4 months later--


Thanks for the help.
 
Kim, it is a very frustrating situation. You just have to keep putting one foot in front of the other. It is clear how committed you are to Ms cool Kitty. Me, I guess I would just have a tantrum every now and then and have thoughts of strangling her. You are clearly a person used to success, and at the moment, she is not allowing you that. but you are successful at keeping her alive, so she has a lot to be grateful for!
 
Kim ..... (((hugs))) Okay a quick recap .....
16 WEEKS since Dx. DKA
UTI
Extensive dental work
ONLY four months since diabetes Dx.

By now you've heard all of the platitudes ..... it's a marathon, not a sprint .... each cat is different, etc. and what do all of the sayings mean? it's not easy sometimes! sometimes we dance with them and no one is in step but we must dance anyhow!

I had three specialists tell me that Payne should be put down because there wasn't any way she could survive it all .... we fight for them, that's what our job as the bean is and you do it SO well for Kitty! don't doubt yourself, have a glass of wine and snuggle your girl and thank God she's still alive. Do you remember how scared you were in the beginning, you are not that same person because you can/have been doing this and doing it well!

Nancy and Payne
(who is alive and kicking still :) :thumbup
 
Nancy and Payne said:
I had three specialists tell me that Payne should be put down because there wasn't any way she could survive it all .... Nancy and Payne
(who is alive and kicking still :) :thumbup
Click to expand...

Good grief, I can't believe they told you that! Thank goodness you didn't listen!

kse said:
Free feeding is not a problem, but I am afraid the civvies will eat all the food! So, I can't be assured any food would be available for her. The civvies pretty much snarf up all the food--- they were rescues and remember being hungry. They don't leave much!
Click to expand...

Kim, how many civvies do you have? I worried about free feeding at first also but it has worked out fine. I think maybe once they are used to something always being available they are better about it. Have you read about how I freeze & leave some out all the time? You could just leave out extra frozen depending on how many civvies you have. Of course you do have a point about not being sure if Kitty is getting any. I never really know who eats what.

Where are you this morning? We need your happy self here with jokes to keep us smiling!

:YMHUG:
 
Yeah, my scarfer civvies settled down with free feeding. At first they porked out, but then once the excitement wore off, they lost weight and went back to only slightly chunky. :)

If it's any consolation, it took me a year to get Bix regulated. Ok that's probably not consolation :)
 
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