Ketchie- UPDATE 1-23-13 Convenia or Baytril?

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Jean and Charcoal

Jean and Charcoal

Member Since 2009
Hi Folks,

Ketchie had an abscessed tooth pulled plus another one on Dec. 7, 2012. She still has not healed totally in that area. She has CRF, probably near the end stage, and she is 17 and a half years old (she will be the end of this month).

She is not eating, except bits and pieces of her wet food, and even a little bit of dry, and I am giving her fluids each day, about 50 mls sub-q.

I took her to the vet's yesterday, almost thinking I would be putting her down, and the vet said she looked good, color was good but the area where the abscess was has still not totally healed. I stopped giving her abs (Baytril) two weeks ago, due to the other vet there seeing her, and she thought I was only giving them for her runny nose. But, now I regret I stopped the abs, but think I should start them up again. Any suggestions? She did seem to be doing better on the Baytril. I am really afraid of the Convenia shot, especially since Ketchie is so terribly skinny now.

Yesterday the regular vet, who did the surgery, wanted me to let her give Ketchie a shot of Convenia, but I said no. Ketchie is down to just under 7 pounds, where her ideal weight over a year ago, was about 12 or 13 pounds. She is a large cat.

I know Ketchie seems that she gets nauseated and I just gave her a quarter of a Mirtazapine for the appetite stimulant, in hopes it might kick in her hunger for food. But I wondered if anyone here knows if you can give Pepcid A/C within the same couple of hours of having given the Mirtazapine? I can only give her Mirt. every 3 days. The vet yesterday mentioned trying her on the Pepcid A/C to see if that helps. I asked her about a shot of Cerenia, but she said that only lasts for one day. She doesn't carry the pills (Cerenia). So, we didn't give her the Cerenia.

This is very frustrating, and I have no support from my family about how I am dealing with Ketchie at this end stage of her life, only that they think I should just PTS.

I have never had this much sadness over trying to do the right thing for one of my cats. I managed to put five of my cats down in 2009 in less then six months, and then I just lost May-Belle, my 11 year old Tuxedo last November 5, 2012 suddenly, due to cancer. I have not even been able to grieve properly for May-Belle, with all of this going on with Ketchie. I reached my hand down last night by the sofa, where May-Belle used to sit and talk to me, and I was so sad that she is now gone. She used to butt her little head into my hand, and say "Meow". It was always so loving the way she did it.
cat_pet_icon

Please say a prayer for me and Ketchie, that I will be able to do the right thing. Or at least the best thing for her. She also has that large (over 2 inches) tumor on the back of her spine, on the outside, that is most likely Fibrosarcoma. It doesn't seem to bother her, and it still moves around in her skin. But, now with her so skinny, it feels so terrible.

Thanks for listening.
Jean and Charcoal (GA) cat_pet_icon
 
Dr. Lisa doesn't recommend using convenia - see her site on it. Besides it is intended for skin issues not teeth issues. Clindamycin is what is usually used for teeth.

www.catinfo.org

Why wouldn't the vet give the cerenia shot - at a minimum it would have given some relief - and if she doesn't carry cerenia, she can write or send in a scrip to an online pharmacy that does carry it - such as 1800petmeds.com and I received a coupon for $8 savings - use coupon code - gift8 - just a thought that may help.
 
Jean,

You can give Ketchie Pepcid along with the Mirtazapine. I use to give it to Lilly my diabetic in a shot form and she was taking Mirtazapine, I am so sorry to hear about Ketchie and do hope she gets to feeling better. The Pepcid should help with the upset stomach, I give it to my 15 year old Arthur every day.
You know you can always find good people here for support if you need it.

Terri
 
Sending prayers. At this point I would be inclined to give her whatever she wants to eat but here are some suggestions below (you likely have sen before though) that might entice her to eat to keep her strength up. Also I dont know if you have tried giving her coconut oil to keep her weight up (cold pressed organic virgin start 1ml twice a day - go to 5ml if no diarrhea)

I would discuss the range of antibiotics with the vet to see if you can attack that abscess.

And I am so sorry for your recent losses :sad:

Wendy

Cheryl & Winnie wrote:
Enticing a Cat to Eat

Here are some things you can do do entice your cat to eat:

-sometimes in order to get a cat to eat you even have to resort to dry it is more important that they eat. there are a couple low carb / grain free brands -- EVO and wellness core.

-making a buffet to give him choices
- heating food

sprinkle food with :
FortiFlora -- a probiotic you can get at vets or online. is very smelly and cats love the taste of it.
parmesean cheese
smashed crumbles of dry food
bonito/tuna flakes (Can be found at Asian markets or sometimes in the Asian food section of a large grocery store.)
halo chicken treats (freeze dried chicken) -- crumble into dust over food -- my Wolfie loves this stuff.
pour a little water from tuna in water over food (I use low sodium/no sodium added as other kinds in water has veg. broth in it and I assume that means onions, which are toxic to cats and it shouldn't contain soy -- check labels)
powdered oregano. yep sounds weird . but some cats like it and it will entice them to eat.

other ideas of foods to offer your kitty to stim appy:
trader joe tuna for cats
baby food -- beechnut or Gerber Stage 2 -- you want a baby food that is only a protein + broth (although the Gerber contains cornstarch). It should have no onions or other additives. some babyfoods have onions . please read labels if you can't find beechnut.
kentucky fried chicken
deli turkey /chicken
plain cooked ( boiled or baked ) chicken breast
canned chicken for people (watch the label that their are no onions)
chicken broth -- low sodium

If enticements don't work, you should consider:
-assist feeding ( syringe or make little meatballs and place in mouth)
-and/or talking to your vet about appetite stimulents ( mirtazapine or cyproheptidine)
Click to expand...
 
Thanks, everyone!

I am going to try to give her the Pepcid A/C now, and then if she eats anything, I will give her the Baytril.

She has done well on the Baytril, and never seemed to get sick from it, even if she had not eaten much. Clindamycin was more harsh on her stomach.

I have tried so many different things to get her to eat, but if she totally stops eating, then I know it will be time to let her go. :(

Thanks everyone for your prayers and all the ideas!

Jean and Charcoal (GA)
 
I would definitely start to give Pepcid AC the 10mg strength - 1/4 tab BID.
The daily max for cats is 5mg.

My Shadoe did quite a bit better once she was getting pepcid twice a day; I found she would go to cat grass first thing in the morn to calm her nausea, and she was able to eat better after getting her pepcid. I'd give her the pepcid piece as soon as I got up and within an hour, she seemed more interested in eating.

After months of giving her pepcid, I went to a new vet about her frequent pancreatitis issues. He had me start to give her cyano B12 weekly shots at home and I did not need to give her the pepcid anymore. The B12 seemed to calm down the inflammation she had and also her upset stomach in the mornings.

ETA: definitely no to the Convenia. if the Baytril does not cause problems, then why not start another round on it?
 
The pepcid is fine to give with the mirtazapine. I'm not sure the convenia is the right antibiotic to give for dental issues. My Boo got it but it was for skin issues. He actually got it from a dermatologist. Brie my diabetic got it over the summer before we knew he had a kidney infection. At the time my vet thought something was going on since his WBCs were elevated. Both did fine on the convenia. I think vets are using convenia more often now. I believe they are using it more than for just skin issues now. I would like to see what exact bacteria it covers. I like baytril since my cats don't get GI side effects from it.
 
trauboo - please read dr. lisa's piece regarding convenia and the risks involved.

http://www.catinfo.org/?link=convenia

for a cat like Ketchie, I wouldn't recommend a 14 day ab shot that if something goes wrong or needs to be adjusted, can't. You can't undo the shot once it is given. at least with oral ab, it has a shorter lifespan in the body and can be adjusted as the days go by.

just my 2 cents.....
 
Thanks again for the advice. I am giving Ketchie Baytril again. I had a few here, so I looked up the amount to give to her, since she is much thinner, and the amount is about 3/4 of a pill once a day. The vet's instructions are 1/2 of a pill once a day. I picked up the Baytril today.

I asked the vet tech what the cost of Convenia is, and she said it would be 59 dollars. That is really high, isn't it? My gf took her cat to her vet's two days ago, and the vet gave him a shot of Convenia because he had several toenails growing into his pads. He is almost 18 years old. My friend said she could never get a pill or any medicine into this cat of hers. She said her vet charged 19 dollars for the shot. That is a really big difference.

Not that I had any ideas of giving Ketchie the Convenia, but I was curious about the cost.

Jean and Charcoal (GA)
 
I think my regular vet charges atleast 60. When my Boo got it from the dermatologist a few years back I think I paid 65 or 85. It is expensive. One of the reasons it is so expensive is that once the convenia is reconstituted it must be used within a certain time frame and it is a multidose vial. So if a vet reconstitutes it and only uses it on one patient they end up eating the cost of the product. I have read a lot of different opinions on convenia and I respect what others have to say. I would never tell anyone what to do. My personal experience has been uneventful with convenia.

Sandy
 
We had a similar situation with antibiotics and it was before I had found this site. The vet gave a shot of convenia after we tried clavamox tablets twice a day and kitty kept vomitting. After the shot of convenia we had a kitty that still vomitted two hours after eating and I was very worried. Then the vet told me that it likely was continued side effects from anesthesia and clavamox. She prescribed cerenia 1/4 of tablet 1 hour before eating and this really helped. And our kitty is much better now. I did a lot of research online about convenia and can understand why you were so worried, I was too! But it seemed to work with the cerenia and he began eating and keeping food down. I know it probably varies based on where you live/ vet but the convenia shot was $38 and 4 days worth of cerenia was $12.00. I'm sorry it has been so hard, thoughts and prayers are being sent your way!
 
Thank you Sandy, Jeanne, and Sammysmom!

So far, Ketchie is hanging in there. The Pepcid A/C seems to be helping, and also, the Baytril seems to be working well. She seems to get a better appetite when she is on the Baytril. Plus, I am giving her the Buprenex each day if she needs it. Plus fluids. Today I gave her a dose of B-12, by adding it to her fluids.

She is picking off and on all day at her food, so that is better than she had been all last week. I just hope she can make it to warmer weather. She is a real fighter.

Have a good weekend, everyone!
Jean and Charcoal (GA)
 
Hi Jean
I'm glad Ketchie is feeling better. I know the kitty roller coaster all to well. I'm always glad when my Vandow has a good day. One day at a time and many deep breaths. You are such a good Mom.

Prayers for you and Ketchie
Sandy
 
Thank you, Jen. Yes, Ketchie is still hanging in there! She is one heck of a fighter. She still fights me when I give her the Pepcid A/C or the Baytril. I put anything I give her into empty capsules, but she even hates that.

She is still picking at her food, but seems to be doing okay, otherwise, although she is sure thin now. I know her time is near, but then again, I have said that before, and she just seems like she does not want to leave yet.
 
Have you tried Pill Pockets? Small tablets (ex Clavamox) use just half of a Pill Pocket to cover them. If I recall correctly, Baytril is large, so cut it into halves or quarters, then wrap with enough Pill Pocket to cover it.
 
I have tried pill pockets in the past. No go.

Ketchie is on the Baytril, and I can just slip a half into a clear capsule. So, far, she seems a little better being back on the Baytril, but we had a rough day today. I am praying for the best, but preparing for the worst with my sweet Ketchie.

Thanks for prayers for both Ketchie and me. We are both very tired.
 
Thank you, Sandy, and Wendy!

Spending as much time as possible with Ketchie. She still gets up and is moving around, but not jumping anymore. We are just taking one day at a time.

Thanks to you all for any thoughts, or prayers at this sad time as she seems to linger on, and sometimes I just think she doesn't want to leave me, as we have been so very close.

I have a friend in Florida, who is a member of this site, who is going through the same thing with her Misty girl, who is about the same age or close to it, of Ketchie's. I believe she may be 16. Ketchie is 17 and a half. Myrtle lost her 18 year old cat, Arielle, on November 4, 2012, and the very next day I lost my May-Belle, who was 11 with cancer. Now both Myrtle and myself are talking to each other, trying to bolster up our spirits, because we are going through the same thing now, so soon after our losses in November, and both of our cats are torties. We are both doing sub-q fluids, and trying to keep our sweet furbabies, as comfortable as possible. They are both still eating and drinking some, but both have Chronic Renal Failure, and other medical problems. It is really hard to know when to make the 'ultimate' decision.

Please pray for my friend, Myrtle and her sweet Misty, also.

Thanks so much!
Jean and Charcoal (GA)
 
I have not yet had to make the decision for my kitties but I do have a very elderly rabbit..

She has cataracts and is blind, has arthritis and moves very slow. Has an ear infection that won't go away no matter what meds we try. Recently it has moved into her nose and she breathes like she has a cold sometimes. She is on daily painkillers. She moves slow and doesn't groom herself well any more.

However she seems happy enough, eats her food with gusto, hunts around her playpen area for her treats.. And as long as she seems to get some enjoyment from life and isn't in pain, we will continue.. But I know she has limited time.
 
Hi Wendy,

Sorry to hear your rabbit is not real well, but like you said, if she is eating with gusto, and still playing, it seems hard to pts at this point.

Wishing you well, and thanks for writing about her. She sounds really sweet. How old is she? I don't know much about rabbits or their ages.

Take care!
Jean and Charcoal (GA)
 
I was told when I got her (from the humane society as an adult) that dwarf rabbits live 5-7 years. They thought she was at least one years old at that point. Her 12th !! birthday is this week.. so pretty old.. DH says she kinda looks like a zombie now.. matted fur and clouded eyes.. lol. She is happy enough though.
 
Hi Jean
I know how hard it is. In the past it has been pretty obvious when it was time. My Vandow is different. A few weeks ago he was doing very poorly. He lost one pound in two weeks. I had three tenative appointments to put him to sleep. He turned it around and now he is doing ok. For over two years we have been dealing with chronic pancreatitis and it has been a challenging. There has been many times that I thought this was it. A few weeks back it was especially bad. A true kitty roller coaster. I know people say that you will know but in Vandow's case I just don't know. One day at a time. Continuing prayers for you and Ketchie and prayers for Myrtle and Misty.
 
To Wendy, WOW, that is pretty old for a rabbit I suppose! As long as she is happy!

To Sandy,

Your Vandow sounds like Ketchie. I think the vet's office people and the vets were starting to get tired of me coming over thinking it was time, and then Ketchie would spring back some. You are right, just one day at a time is the best we can do.

Thanks for your prayers for us, and also for Myrtle and Misty.

Prayers for you and Vandow too!
 
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