Ketchie-Clindamycin or Baytril??

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Jean and Charcoal

Jean and Charcoal

Member Since 2009
(There is a link below all about what Ketchie has been through with this dental surgery.)

Ketchie had a dental, with the highly infected tooth being removed on Friday, 12-7-12, and I have been trying to get the Clindacure (clindamycin) into her, but have had a terrible time getting it in her mouth.

Plus, afterwards, I hear her stomach churning horribly. I was wondering if any of you here have used that, or if any have ever used Baytril for after a dental?

This morning her nose is getting stuffed up again, and I am concerned that the infection could be back, since I have had such a hard time giving the Clindacure to her.

I will call my vet's office about this, but just wondered if anyone had any ideas about the antibiotics? Especially since the Clindamycin seems so hard on her stomach?

Thanks for any information on this. Also, should I just go ahead and let the vet give her the Convenia instead, even though it is very expensive, and also Ketchie has Chronic Renal Failure pretty bad?

She has not had a bowel movement since almost a week ago. Granted, she has not had much food in her, but that worries me too. Is that normal? She is peeing okay, a lot, and drinking a lot. But this stuffy sounding nose this morning, is worrisome. I do have a vaporizer going too.

Jean and Charcoal (GA)
 
No on the Convenia; its not worth the risk in a senior kitty, plus it wasn't intended for dental infections.

Give the antibiotic after eating, not before, to reduce nausea and vomiting. Compounding it with flavoring may help get it in, but clindamycin tastes awful (indirectly tasted it when wrestling to give it to my cats - uugghh!!)
OR
It is possible to get some antibiotics in a subcutaneous injection format (ex Baytril); this may work better without upsetting the stomach as much.

FortiFlora may help restore the normal bacteria in the gut and help her tummy out.
 
Thanks, Larry, I just gave a whole Baytril to Ketchie, but I don't know if she is going to make it through this surgery from last Friday.

Thanks, also to you, BJ, and you are definitely right about the Clindamycin tasting really gross! I tasted it myself, even though I am allergic to it, I had to, before giving it to Ketchie, but it is enough to gag a maggot! Tasted like 100 proof alcohol! (not that I drink, as I am allergic to liquor too)

I made a tentative appointment for tomorrow at 12 noon, to put Ketchie down. I can't let her go on suffering. She was doing pretty good Friday night and Saturday, then suddenly yesterday, she started getting stuffy in her right nostril, to the point where her breathing was labored through her nose.

It is killing me to see her like this, but she has at least reached a good old age of 17 years and 4 months and 10 days, since being born in my bathroom. Her mother, Gracie, was only 15 when she died, and her brother, Rudder, was one week short of 14. Her other brother, Schooner was only 15 and a half, and her twin sister, Sloopy, was one week shy of turning 16. So, Ketchie outlived the family. But, I won't watch her suffer with this congestion.

The trouble is, going into this dental, we did it fast, with no x-rays, and no blood work. But, I was okay with taking the risk, as well as my vet. We knew Ketchie was at the end of the line, but if she tried to clean up the infection in her mouth, and get that one horribly infected tooth out, it gave her at least almost two days of less pain.

Tomorrow is my daughter's birthday. It will be sad if I put Ketchie down tomorrow, but I am thinking now, only of releasing her from her pain.

I will post any new updates as they happen. Please pray for us.

Thanks!
Jean and Charcoal (GA)
 
Thanks, Jeanne.

Here are two pictures of Ketchie from last night.

Dec92012Ketchieaftersurgery001.jpg
Ketchie on Dec. 9, 2012

Dec92012Ketchieaftersurgery006.jpg
Ketchie on Dec. 9, 2012
 
Awwwwww Jean, I would be SO torn....Have you thought about trying lysine in her food? Ya never know... I mean she is SUCH a trooper...I dunno you ALWAYS do right by ALL your babies. I KNOW you will do right by Ketchie . She really doesnt look 17 by these pictures.

Sending prayers and love,
j.
 
Thanks, Jeanne.

I have tried Lysine paste, but at this point, she really seems like she is miserable.

It is just so hard to make these decisions, but I have made many before, and now I am faced with this decision again.

I will see what the vet says tomorrow, before the final curtain is drawn.

Thanks for your prayers,
Jean and Charcoal (GA) cat_pet_icon
 
Sterile, preservative free eye drops (ex Systane), applied to the eyes will drain down into the sinus passages and may help loosen congestion.

A warm, damp washcloth may be used to loosen any crusted materials, like having mom-cat groom kitten - comforting.
 
Thank you so much for the suggestions, BJ. I just was thinking about that myself, the warm cloth. On her second picture, her muzzle appears to look swollen some.

My poor Ketchie. I will try that in a couple minutes. Thanks again!

Jean and Charcoal (GA)
 
I like baytril. I've never had any adverse side effects in any of my cats. I put it in a pill pocket and put it in my kitty's mouth. I've always been lucky pilling my cats too. My cats would probably spit the liquid out.

Sandy
 
Thanks, Sandy. Ketchie has never had a problem with Baytril. I crush it up and put it in an empty capsule and usually get it into her that way with a squirt of water in the side of her mouth following the capsule. She won't do pill pockets. None of my cats ever liked them. Funny how some cats like them and others don't.

I tried the warm wash cloth and that went over like a lead balloon. :( Oh well...
 
Can your vet give her injectable penicillin shot? I think it lasts a few days. Maybe if your vet would do that you could just take her in every three days for a few injections. Just some thoughts running through my head. I'm sure someone can chime in a give some thoughts.

Sandy
 
I would have to ask my vet. I don't know if she would or not.

Ketchie has not eaten all day. Trying so many different things, but she is very weak in her hind legs still. I guess with a cat this old, it takes a lot longer to get the sedation out of their system.

But, just less than an hour ago, she followed the laser light, and played with a little toy hanging on a string, and that really surprised me.

Maybe I will just ask the vet to look in her mouth and see what she thinks. I hate to put her down if she still has a little spunk left in her. But, I have to get her to eat. I gave her Mirtazapine yesterday, but that doesn't seem to work well anymore. I will never use the Cyproheptadine, as that really messed up her balance.

Thanks for your suggestions, everyone! Especially for your prayers.
Jean and Charcoal (GA)
 
Maybe try prednisone. It stimulates appetite which she needs and it reduces swelling which she probably has from the extraction.

Playing is a good sign. It may help trigger appetite with the hunt, catch, kill, eat behavior cycle.

Can you use an oral syringe and make a cat food slurry to give her, a teaspoon at a time?
 
Thanks for the suggestions, BJ.

I am now taking Ketchie to the vet's. Will post whatever happens, when I get back later.

Please keep praying for her and me too. I am so nervous and sad. Today is my daughter's birthday. She is 41.

Jean and Charcoal (GA)
 
Prayers incoming for you both and a very happy birthday to your daughter.

Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang
 
Re: Ketchie Update 12-11-12

Thanks Dyana and Mel! :)

At noon, I took Ketchie over to the vet's.

Ketchie weighed 8.1 pounds, about the same as last week. Her temperature was 99.3 a little low. When the vet looked at her, she said her heart murmur was worse and also that she seems anemic. Her gums were pale. Of course that could be due to the blood loss and not being able to eat much for weeks. We discussed whether it seemed like it was time to put her down, but Ketchie ate a little this morning before I took her, and drank some water, and she seemed to be feeling a little better. She was pretty feisty at the vet’s. I had the vet give her the Baytril pill, and she fought pretty hard with her and I had to hold Ketchie’s arms cause she kept trying to knock the vet’s hand away. That is what she does to me. So, the next thing I did was put Ketchie on the floor to walk and show her that she is weak, but we came to the agreement that Ketchie just did not seem ready to let go yet. The vet said “Let’s give her this week and see how she does.” So, I brought a live Ketchie back home with me. And this evening she finally took a poop! YAY!!!! She had not gone in a week. She was not eating barely anything, so that was part of the reason, but I think the Baytril may be kicking in. Her nose does not see quite as stuffy this evening.

Thank you all so much for your caring, thoughts, and prayers. I really appreciate them. Maybe Ketchie will just be here this week, or maybe a little longer, but I thank God for my vet, and her wisdom and thoughts about the whole matter. The vet was also sad today, because they lost their house cat from the vet's office last night, due to kidney cancer. He was a beautiful orange and white boy named Simba. I felt so sad, because I had just seen him last week and he was only 13 I believe the vet said.

I will post updates, if and when they happen about Ketchie. I may post a few newer pictures later also.

I know my daughter will be happy that I did not choose to put Ketchie down today on her birthday.

Take care everyone!
Jean and Charcoal (GA) cat_pet_icon
 
Purr'n and praying for both of you.
Anemia results in the blood being thinner. This frequently results in a heart murmur sounding worse.
 
Woohoo!!!! Ketchie is still alive and kicking!!! I'm so glad that at least you have another week with her, and really praying that you still have her around for a very long time.

Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang
 
I'm so pleased I looked in to see if there was an update on Ketchie, and having followed the thread down, to find some brighter news at the end!!

Woo hoo! Looks like Ketchie is rallying and will get through this! For an oldish girl, she is a tough cookie - who looks like she wants to be around a while yet.

God bless you Jean, for your great care of Ketchie and all your kitties, and I pray you can have some peace and relief from all the stress of the last few days.
 
I too pray that you can and Ketchie have peace and relief from all the stress of the last few days.
You are a phenomenal mom, Jean.
:YMHUG:
 
She may need help staying warm since she is underweight and anemic. Maybe circle up some towels or blankets to make nest for her to curl up in.
 
Thanks so much, everyone!

Also, thanks, Larry for that info about anemia and the heart murmur.

Yes, I am keeping her room warm and she likes to sleep part of the time in the carrier. I am going to check her now.

Hope we can get a better night's sleep tonight!

To Allie, I hope if you read this, that you know I am praying for your getting your tooth out Thursday, which I suppose is your time tomorrow? Keep us posted.

Take care everyone!

Hugs,
Jean and Charcoal (GA) ~O)
 
I am so happy that you and the vet saw some hope for Ketchie - having a cat fight to take a pill usually means (IMO) that the kitty still has the will to live!!

Again Trouble went down hill for way too long (my vet's partners couldn't believe there was something wrong with his mouth and blamed his kidneys). But after a round of prednisolone and the antibiotics he started eating and gaining weight!!

I sincerely pray that Ketchie is on the road to recovery!!

Happy Birthday to your daughter!!

And YEA Ketchie!!!!!!

Alix
 
Thanks Alix!

Tentative appointment for Ketchie for tomorrow at 11:20 am with a different vet.

This will most likely be the end.

My heart is heavy, but I need to do what is best for Ketchie, not for me to want to keep her hanging on. She is so stuffed up tonight, and has not eaten all day, even with the Mirtazapine.

Thank you all. Keep the thoughts and prayers coming, please.

Jean and Charcoal (GA) :cry:
 
I'm so sorry Jean that Ketchie is not doing well. It is so hard to know when to let them go. I've had a few tenative appointments with my civie Vandow over the last two years. Some how he bounces back and lets me know it's not time. I just never want it to get to a point where my kitty is suffering. You'll know in your heart what to do tomorrow. I do know how heavy your heart is right know.

Hugs to you and Ketchie
Sandy
 
((Jean)) I know you know that when they are stuffed up and can't smell they don't really want to eat. Can you force feed her a little? Try taking her into the bathroom and run the shower very hot to give her steam. That may help. Is she walking better since her bowel movement? I remember reading that it can cause weakness in their rear. Only you know what is right for Ketchie...I hope you have more time with her.
 
Thanks so much, Sandy. To see Ketchie go downhill so fast today, has been really heartbreaking. But, she is really old, and she has been through so much, since the days when she was just a young cat. Of course, that doesn't make it any easier by saying that, but I have been blessed to have her for 17 years, 4 months, and 12 days thus far.

There has to be something really wrong going on inside of her. Perhaps this cancer she has growing in this tumor on her back, has been wreaking havoc inside of her lungs or sinuses, etc.

I just looked back at all her records I keep, and I write down everything, and she has been battling this nasal congestion since the beginning of February this year. Sometimes it helps to step back and look at the beginning of how this all came about.

Tomorrow, I will post whatever happens.

Thanks again,
Jean and Charcoal (GA) cat_pet_icon
 
Hi Jill,

I have tried to force feed Kethcie off and on, and she will have nothing to do with it. I will just play it by ear, until tomorrow.

I have a vaporizer going to put humidity into the house.

Thanks,
Jean and Charcoal (GA)
 
I'm so sorry to read that Ketchie is not doing well.

I can only imagine how bad you feel, dreading tomorrow. Will check in on my "tomorrow" (it's 5 to midnight, Thursday night/Friday here), and see how Ketchie is and how you get on at the vet.
If you have to take the hard decision............ just know that you have all our thoughts and prayers.

Just too much worry and sadness for you, these past few months :sad: :sad:




P.S. Tooth out. No problems, thank God. Just a few stitches.
 
Oh, Allie, I am so glad you got your tooth out. Hope it was not too painful or 'noisy'.

God bless you! Thanks for your support.

Hugs,
Jean and Charcoal (GA) ~O)
 
I shall be praying for both you and Ketchie. Regardless of the outcome, you have always done what is best for your kitties.
Dana
 
I have not read this entire thread but anytime I see Clindamycin mentioned I must warn everybody to never use clindamycin **tablets** due to the possibility of severe, sometimes life-threatening, strictures.

This is discussed on my Pilling Cats webpage.

I also want to mention, but maybe it was mentioned above, that a lot of people forget about using Clavamox tablets crushed and put in canned food or Pill Pockets can be used for clavamox tablets. Yes, I know some cats won't eat pill pockets, but many cats will.

Also keep in mind that some cats that won't eat pill pockets will eat them if you rolled them in crushed temptations treats, forti Flora, or Parmesan cheese.

When using pill pockets, remember to never use a whole one. They are too large to swallow intact and the cat will end up biting down on them. Only use one fifth - one quarter of a pill pocket wrapped around the pill. Use the other four pieces as chasers, fed one at a time.

Another comment: many times it is forgotten that certain antibiotics are good for certain types of bacteria. It isn't a matter of just picking any old antibiotic. It is important to match the antibiotic with the bacterial population we are trying to kill. Typically speaking, Baytril is not the best drug to be using for oral bacteria and neither is Convenia.

If anyone ever considers using Convenia in their cat, please review my webpage on this subject before administering that drug.
 
Thanks for posting Dr. Lisa,

The vet put Ketchie on Clindacure liquid, and I could NOT get that into her. It tastes like poison. So, I went back to the Baytril, as that has seemed to help her the best. I have always had trouble with Ketchie with Clavamox.

What do you think of the use of Mirtazapine as an appetite stimulant? We tried the Cyproheptadine, but it knocked Ketchie for a loop. She fell off my bathroom counter, and she lost her balance really badly.

http://www.drugs.com/imprints/m-515-8997.html
These were the Mirtazapine that worked the best for Ketchie to stimulate her appetite.

http://www.1800petmeds.com/Mirtazapine-prod11320.html
These are what the vets are using now, and do NOT work at all! I gave her a quarter this afternoon, and she has only eaten a few little pieces of Hardee's chicken breast. I am going to try to offer her some more now.

I posted above about Mirtazapine, because now the thing is I am trying to get her to eat. But, also, if she stays stuffy, that is the big problem also.

I think it is mostly that she is now allergic to something in my house, only God knows what, and with her having end stage renal disease, and going on 18 years old, she may not make it past Saturday to try the Mirtazapine that I have had my pharmacist order tonight.

Thanks for any and all suggestions. Ketchie is 17 and 4.5 months old.

Jean and Charcoal (GA)
 
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