Kaz PMPS 103 / Too low to shoot full dose?

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I believe that +6 is when the insulin really kicks in so I will be up till midnight tonight just to make sure. He usually only eats 0% carb food but I gave Kaz some 4% about 5 mins ago. I know that anything under 10% is considered low carb but I don't agree so i hate going over 5% and prefer to stay at zero.
Thats my boys +6 @ midnight, so I will be right there with you. I'm guessing we are in the same time zone. I fed a couple of tsps @+3 but won't feed again until +6 unless he drops under 50. I think him & my other non sugar boys new feeding schedule is taking Panzer lower, we are wanting that reduction though, just do it while momma can catch it! I feed fancy feast unfortunately, my sugar boy will not eat weruva unless it's mixed with FF but not by itself. My other boy gets weruva when he refuses FF, he likes it. Cats....:cat::cat:
 
Sadly they don't hand out free sensors in Massachusetts pretty much the only state that they don't. I like the button as it's easier at night but I did not realize the difference was this much. Bit worrying knowing this as next time I travel I will now be more worried than normal.
I've never used a sensor before so I know nothing about them. The vet I fired wanted me to try one out but I said no & started testing him. Sadly I knew nothing about this group until June or July of last year & I was blind shooting, luckily he was still on dry food or he might have hypoed. Hopefully I didn't ruin his chances of remission. I was blind shooting for a year & a half! Anywhere from 4-6 units...I'm lucky he's still here with me...my poor boy!
 
Thats my boys +6 @ midnight, so I will be right there with you. I'm guessing we are in the same time zone. I fed a couple of tsps @+3 but won't feed again until +6 unless he drops under 50. I think him & my other non sugar boys new feeding schedule is taking Panzer lower, we are wanting that reduction though, just do it while momma can catch it! I feed fancy feast unfortunately, my sugar boy will not eat weruva unless it's mixed with FF but not by itself. My other boy gets weruva when he refuses FF, he likes it. Cats....:cat::cat:
Try Tiki Cat all there food is 0% carbs. I manly feed the chicken flavors (chicken and egg, chicken and quail egg which are cans and then there are a few pouches with chicken and duck.) some of the fish Kaz will eat but he is very picky.
Kaz has been on Tiki along with his brother for at least 10 years it was just a fluke that it was 0% carb. I had done research and found this food was one of the best. I personally don't like fancy feast as it has meat by products in it and high ash content but I understand if it's the only food they will eat. Tiki is similar in price to Weruva. Weruva has a few 0% carbs too which Kaz seems to like he is not keen on high carb food and doesn't really like fish.

Guessing I'll be back in another hour or to as Kaz's number has gone down again although it should start to come up now. 59 is a good number if he had this everyday then no more insulin (I wish).
 
I've never used a sensor before so I know nothing about them. The vet I fired wanted me to try one out but I said no & started testing him. Sadly I knew nothing about this group until June or July of last year & I was blind shooting, luckily he was still on dry food or he might have hypoed. Hopefully I didn't ruin his chances of remission. I was blind shooting for a year & a half! Anywhere from 4-6 units...I'm lucky he's still here with me...my poor boy!
I got lucky. My family in the UK have German Shephards, We have had these dogs for over 50 years and when I came to the US and one of our dogs got sick I joined a forum so when Kaz got sick it was the first thing I did. I went to a general forum first and a member their told me on the same day I joined that this site existed so I got here very quickly. When the vet told me that he had diabetes and then explained the treatment it sounded like a guessing game and very dangerous. I researched it and found that cats treated this way tend to live very reduced life spans and that I needed to be more involved with treatment if I wanted a chance at remission. So bit more research and I ended up here. To be quite frank I am not sure if I would have been able to cope without this site as I was in tears nearly every night just trying to understand and do the best for Kaz. I also had a needle phobia where is I saw a needle I fainted so I was petrified. Without this site I don't think Kaz would be with me today I am so thankful to these wonderful people

Now I am going to try and have a cat nap for a couple hours.

Personally based on your chart I think your cat is a great candidate for remission I can only wish for numbers like this.
 
I’m going to go back thru all the old chat as this was not what I was initially told. I’ll try to get to this later today. This is a bit upsetting as what I have written down in my book is contradicting again.
 
I’m going to go back thru all the old chat as this was not what I was initially told. I’ll try to get to this later today. This is a bit upsetting as what I have written down in my book is contradicting again.
If you were following SLGS you would have reduced the dose at 90….were you thinking of that? I don’t think you ever followed SLGS though.
When you were using the alphatrak meter you would have reduced the dose when it dropped under 68.
Looking back through your SS I can only see where you only reduced the dose when it dropped under 50 using the human meter.
 
If you were following SLGS you would have reduced the dose at 90….were you thinking of that? I don’t think you ever followed SLGS though.
When you were using the alphatrak meter you would have reduced the dose when it dropped under 68.
Looking back through your SS I can only see where you only reduced the dose when it dropped under 50 using the human meter.

Definitely have it written down that if in green reduce shot unless you do an insulin reduction then stay at same dose.
 
Definitely have it written down that if in green reduce shot unless you do an insulin reduction then stay at same dose.
Not sure where you got that information Claire, but it’s not correct.

If following TR and are using a human meter you reduce the dose at 50 if the cat is in the first year after diagnoses.
If the cat was diagnosed longer than a year ago, you reduce the dose at 40.
If using a pet meter you reduce the dose at 68.

If following SLGS you reduce the dose at 90 (human meter) or 68 ( pet meter.
 
Probably not the best picture.

I placed my first order from Marks pharmacy today. Not sure its that much of a cost savings once you pay for the storage and ice but I think if I was to buy 5 pens at same time next time it would be cheaper.
Going to give Kaz a chance at the 2.75 as I already reduced him and he's doing really well and is happy and the numbers appear to be coming down again. I'm expecting a blue number at around 146ish at +3. If this is correct I think he will continue to come down.

If I don't see a steady decrease between now and Wednesday then I will go up again but I want to give him a chance as we already stepped down.

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I just looked at my last thread & it says reduction if he drops below 50 3xs reduction if he goes below 40 once, just wanted to clarify that.
Did somebody clarify this? It's because the rules for reduction are different for long-term diabetics -- diagnosed longer than one year ago -- although I think that by now (September 2022) that both of you Claire and Christina have long-term diabetics.
 

Effect of Prazosin on Recurrent Urethral Obstruction in Cats

Cassandra Gilday, DVM, North Carolina State University
Shelly Vaden, DVM, PhD, DACVIM, North Carolina State University

Urology & Nephrology
|
July 2022
Print/View PDF
In the literature
Conway DS, Rozanski EA, Wayne AS. Prazosin administration increases the rate of recurrent urethral obstruction in cats: 388 cases. J Am Vet Med Assoc. 2022;1-6. doi:10.2460/javma.21.10.0469

FROM THE PAGE …
Feline recurrent urethral obstruction (rUO) affects 11% to 58% of cats.1 Prazosin, an alpha-1–adrenoceptor antagonist, is commonly used to prevent rUO despite lack of supporting veterinary clinical studies.2,3 Prazosin has been recommended to reduce risk for recurrence because of its potential action as a urethral smooth muscle relaxant2; however, administration following urethral obstruction may cause increased patient stress from pill administration and adverse effects (eg, hypotension, lethargy, GI upset, ptyalism).

The objective of this study was to determine whether prazosin administration decreased the rate of feline rUO both prior to and within 14 days of discharge. Observational surveys were completed by clinicians who self-reported that they always or never prescribe prazosin. Development of rUO was compared in 302 (78%) cats administered and 86 (22%) cats not administered prazosin. There was no significant association between prazosin administration and risk for rUO prior to discharge; however, within 14 days following discharge, the cumulative rate of reobstruction was significantly higher in cats treated with prazosin (73 [24%]) compared with cats not treated with prazosin (11 [13%]).

Data from this study combined with data from selected prior prospective studies showed that cats given prazosin (24%) were more likely to develop rUO than cats not given prazosin (13%).2,3 The only significant associations identified with risk for rUO were subjective difficulty performing catheterization and perception of a gritty urethra during catheterization.

The cause of prazosin’s lack of efficacy is likely multifactorial. The distal 63% to 72% of the feline urethra is composed of striated muscle, which is not relaxed by alpha-1–adrenoceptor blockade.4 Most urethral obstructions occur in the distal urethra where prazosin has no pharmacologic effect. Evidence that urethral spasms contribute to rUO in cats is lacking; treatment with urethral muscle relaxants may thus be ineffective.


The results of this study suggest that routine use of prazosin for prevention of rUO should be discouraged.

… TO YOUR PATIENTS
Key pearls to put into practice:

1. Prazosin is ineffective at decreasing risk for rUO and may increase risk for recurrence.
2.
Prazosin may increase patient stress, increase treatment costs, and cause adverse effects.

3. Study results suggest prazosin should not routinely be administered to prevent rUO in cats.

References and Author Information



For global readers, a calculator to convert laboratory values, dosages, and other measurements to SI units can be found here.

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Hi Claire. I had a dickens of a time, but the above post is an article I was trying to share with you that I read today about Prazosin. I remembered that Kaz is on Prazosin, so I wanted to share. It's written for vets.
 
Hi Claire. I had a dickens of a time, but the above post is an article I was trying to share with you that I read today about Prazosin. I remembered that Kaz is on Prazosin, so I wanted to share. It's written for vets.

So Prazosin is an interesting medication that works in Kaz. My prior vet put Kaz on this and said he should just stay on it forever. Every time I tried to take him off he blocked and then we had to go to injectable medication. Luckily I knew the signs (lost Zak my last cat to this so was hyper sensitive to the disease).

When I left Village Vet and moved over to Dr Brum the first thing he wanted to do was get Kaz off the Prazosin as like the article he thought it did nothing. He learnt very quickly that this was not the case with Kaz and has also now said he should be kept on it for life,

However I am at a junction where I would like to try and ween him off again and my reasoning is that he's diabetic. Kaz's blockage issues are due to lack of liquids and yes I added a boat load to his food never made a difference but now as a diabetic cat he drinks a lot more so my brain says I could take him off.

I just haven't tried yet but I have been entertaining the thought of cutting him down to half a tablet a day which is what he always used to get.

So Kaz now has long term diabetes per your earlier email so I move to treating the disease not curing it if that's the case.
 
Oh and one last thing Mark's Pharmacy is not cheaper. I bought three pens (that was all the RX was for) and it ended up costing me $66 per pen (includes shipping to get it to me) but today I had to get a refill from Angel as I was worried I'd run out and that cost me $63 (three dollars cheaper).

I thought Marks in Canada was supposed to give you huge reductions but it was a bit disappointing.
 
By mentioning the long-term diabetic, I only meant that the rules for reductions are different than for cats diagnosed less than 12 months ago. I never meant that he had no chance of remission due to being a long-term diabetic.
 
So Prazosin is an interesting medication that works in Kaz. My prior vet put Kaz on this and said he should just stay on it forever. Every time I tried to take him off he blocked and then we had to go to injectable medication. Luckily I knew the signs (lost Zak my last cat to this so was hyper sensitive to the disease).

When I left Village Vet and moved over to Dr Brum the first thing he wanted to do was get Kaz off the Prazosin as like the article he thought it did nothing. He learnt very quickly that this was not the case with Kaz and has also now said he should be kept on it for life,

However I am at a junction where I would like to try and ween him off again and my reasoning is that he's diabetic. Kaz's blockage issues are due to lack of liquids and yes I added a boat load to his food never made a difference but now as a diabetic cat he drinks a lot more so my brain says I could take him off.

I just haven't tried yet but I have been entertaining the thought of cutting him down to half a tablet a day which is what he always used to get.

So Kaz now has long term diabetes per your earlier email so I move to treating the disease not curing it if that's the case.
Well, regarding prazosin, it’s interesting that it worked for Kaz. Every cat is different.
 
By mentioning the long-term diabetic, I only meant that the rules for reductions are different than for cats diagnosed less than 12 months ago. I never meant that he had no chance of remission due to being a long-term diabetic.
Kinda giving up hope which makes things extremely hard for me as I may be going to the UK very soon and not just Xmas visit. Hard to have him looked after and may become too expensive to manage.
 
Did somebody clarify this? It's because the rules for reduction are different for long-term diabetics -- diagnosed longer than one year ago -- although I think that by now (September 2022) that both of you Claire and Christina have long-term diabetics.
Hi Suzanne since Kaz was diagnosed 5/3/2022 how can he be a long term diabetic, it's not a year yet ? It even says it on her SS
@Suzanne & DarcyI can see that Christina's cat Panzer was DX 1-8-2020 so he's long term
 
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Kinda giving up hope which makes things extremely hard for me as I may be going to the UK very soon and not just Xmas visit. Hard to have him looked after and may become too expensive to manage.
You’re still pretty early in the feline diabetes dance/game so I hope you can hang on to your hope. Everyone comes into it with different life experiences, but for many, the first 6 months to a year can be overwhelming, confusing, daunting, exhausting, stressful, emotional …. and even more so if you have other complications going on in life. It can feel impossible at times, but you’re not alone. We’re here for you, will help where we can, share knowledge, and cheer you on.

If you need to make that overseas trip, maybe you can reconsider some options you ruled out before. I don’t know whether @Deborah & Muffy(GA) & Wendall would still consider pet sitting while you’re gone, but that type of arrangement (even if not perfect in your mind) might give you the break you need by allowing someone who “knows the ropes” and that you can trust to take over while you deal with whatever it is you need to focus on overseas.

You *are* making progress. Please give yourself credit for how far you’ve come (and add a chin scritch for Kaz because, well, cat).
 
You’re still pretty early in the feline diabetes dance/game so I hope you can hang on to your hope. Everyone comes into it with different life experiences, but for many, the first 6 months to a year can be overwhelming, confusing, daunting, exhausting, stressful, emotional …. and even more so if you have other complications going on in life. It can feel impossible at times, but you’re not alone. We’re here for you, will help where we can, share knowledge, and cheer you on.

If you need to make that overseas trip, maybe you can reconsider some options you ruled out before. I don’t know whether @Deborah & Muffy(GA) & Wendall would still consider pet sitting while you’re gone, but that type of arrangement (even if not perfect in your mind) might give you the break you need by allowing someone who “knows the ropes” and that you can trust to take over while you deal with whatever it is you need to focus on overseas.

You *are* making progress. Please give yourself credit for how far you’ve come (and add a chin scritch for Kaz because, well, cat).
If I do have to go this time its going to be much much longer. Hoping to find someone who will take both the cats I have already been asking around unfortunately no one will do the blood tests so its going to be an extremely risky trip and things will not be good for Kaz but I will have no choice but to roll the dice and pray for the best. If I have to go I have to go.
Trying not to think about it till its set in stone.
 
Pretty sure Kaz is in the green quite a bit over night on multiple occasions I just can not get up at 2 or 3 am to test him otherwise I'd be having an accident at work.
Doesn't seem to really matter anyway every time he goes into the green and is allowed a decrease it seems like a couple weeks later he has to go in the other direction times 2.

I had hoped for remission even if it was only for a year as it would have kept him safe while I dealt with life's issues but that does not seem to be the case so now I am in constant stress but that's part of life.
 
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