Kahoots (So Cal) Brand Grain Free Canned Pate Cat Food Experiences and/or Help with Carb %?

[hellolucy]

I recently stumbled across the Kahoots brand grain free canned cat food. It's pate which is the only kind Lucy likes. I have reached out to Kahoots and asked them for the as fed values, and they are still waiting for them from the manufacturer, but was wondering if anyone else already may already have the values or has any experiences with this cat food? I haven't been able to find a thing on it, but Kahoots only does business in Southern CA I believe. I've included the GA analysis numbers (I know these are not what should be used to determine the final carb standing) below in case anyone might be able to ballpark the carb % in the meantime just out of curiosity.

GRAIN FREE CHICKEN RECIPE SOFT PÂTÉ
CRUDE PROTEIN 10% (min)
CRUDE FAT 8% (min)
CRUDE FIBER 1% (max)
MOISTURE 78% (max)
CALORIES 1215 kcal/kg or 190 kcal/can (metabolizable energy)

INGREDIENTS
Chicken, Chicken Broth, Chicken Liver, Calcium Carbonate, Fenugreek Seeds, Potassium Chloride, Choline Chloride, Salt, Magnesium Proteinate, Taurine, Coconut Oil , Thiamine Mononitrate, Vitamin E Supplement, Niacin Supplement, Vitamin A Supplement, d-Calcium Pantothenate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Riboflavin Supplement, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Folic Acid, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Zinc Proteinate, Iron Proteinate, Copper Proteinate, Manganese Proteinate, Sodium Selenite, Organic Sunflower Oil, Ethylenediamine Dihydriodide

 

[Deb & Wink]

Ballparking the carb % using the Guaranteed Analysis gives me:
3% wet matter basis, 14 % dry matter carbs. A bit high for a diabetic cat.
We recommend 10% or less carbs, but good amounts of protein also.

Used this basic carb calculator. http://www.scheyderweb.com/cats/catfood.html
This one is the same. Just a "knockoff" or copy of the Scheyderweb calculator. http://fnae.org/carbcalorie.html

There is a more accurate cat food calculation here. Personally, I'll leave that up to you to do the calculation.
It's in this thread: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/calculating-calories-from-carbohydrates.204051/

Not all manufacturers do feeding trials to obtain "as fed values". That is only one way to show the FDA if a food meets the daily requirements for pets. It's not a legal requirement that pet food manufacturers complete feeding trials.

Plus, the pet food can labels can lag behind the actual ingredients in a food. Manufacturers change their pet food recipes. Forget what the FDA allows on that. 6 months, 1 year? But it happens. Something for you to be aware of.

Use what you get as a ballpark, and use your cats BG (blood glucose) level tests as an indication of how your cat does on a particular food. Some cats are very carb sensitive. Some less so. ECID. Every Cat is Different. Find what works for you and your cat.

 

[hellolucy]

Ballparking the carb % using the Guaranteed Analysis gives me:
3% wet matter basis, 14 % dry matter carbs. A bit high for a diabetic cat.
We recommend 10% or less carbs, but good amounts of protein also.

Used this basic carb calculator. http://www.scheyderweb.com/cats/catfood.html
This one is the same. Just a "knockoff" or copy of the Scheyderweb calculator. http://fnae.org/carbcalorie.html

There is a more accurate cat food calculation here. Personally, I'll leave that up to you to do the calculation.
It's in this thread: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/calculating-calories-from-carbohydrates.204051/

Thank you! I received the as fed-values from them and when I followed the calculation for the as-fed values on the post using the Chicken & Liver protein, fat, carbs, moisture, and ash, I am coming up with 38% calories from protein, 61% from fat, and 1% from carbs, so am wondering if I did it incorrectly.

 

[Deb & Wink]

Ok.
I only calculated the Chicken & Liver pate.
See my calculation steps below. I'll let you do the other flavors.

Step One: Protein, Fat, Carbs, Moisture, Ash and Fiber should equal 100.
Add all the percents together, protein 12.4 + fat 8.19 + fiber 0.02 + moisture 76.8 + ash 2.31 = 99.72

Step Two: Because most companies won’t list carbs when they give you the as-fed values, estimate it by subtracting the other ingredients listed above from 100.
(Estimate the % of carbs, since they did not provide that in the list of as fed values they gave you) Few companies do.
No carb percent given by the company so 100 - 99.72 (other percents) = 0.28% carbs.

Step Three: Determine the calories from each macronutrient.
(Then calculate the calories for each major food ingredient - protein - fat - carbs)
Protein 12.4% x 3.5 (3.5 calories per gram of protein) = 43.4 calories
Fat 8.9% x 8.5 (8.5 calories per gram of fat)= 69.615 calories
Carbs 0.28% x 3.5 (3.5 calories per gram of carbs)= 0.98 calories

Add the calories together for protein, fat and carbs to obtain total calories:
43.4 + 69.615 + 0.98 = 113.995 total calories

Step Four: Determine the % of each major food ingredient from total calories:
Protein 43.4/113.995 = 38.07 % protein
Fat 69.615 /113.995 = 61.11% fat
Carbs 0.98/113.995 = 0.85% carbs

So yes, around 1% carbs for that flavor.
Think you did it correctly.

Now you know why it takes so long for Dr. Lisa Pierson to get her catinfo food chart updated.
Imagine getting the as-fed values from the companies in the first place.

Then imagine doing that calculation for as-fed values for all the foods, from all the companies on the list.

p.s. I don't even remember what food this was for anymore. Had to go back to the top of this thread and find it again. Kahoots brand grain free canned cat food.

p.p.s Can't believe the complexity of the calculation or that I managed to do the calc.

 

[hellolucy]

Ok.

So yes, around 1% carbs for that flavor.
Think you did it correctly.

Now you know why it takes so long for Dr. Lisa Pierson to get her catinfo food chart updated.
Imagine getting the as-fed values from the companies in the first place.

Then imagine doing that calculation for as-fed values for all the foods, from all the companies on the list.

p.s. I don't even remember what food this was for anymore. Had to go back to the top of this thread and find it again. Kahoots brand grain free canned cat food.

p.p.s Can't believe the complexity of the calculation or that I managed to do the calc.

Woo hoo, you rock, thank you so much for double checking my math!! I created this spreadsheet that tries to recreate the calculation process. You enter the as-fed or DMB #s in the yellow cells, it will subtract those and give you the carb value, and it then it takes that and multiplies it by 3.5 for protein, 8.5 for fat, and 3.5 for carbs. Then calculates the % of calories for each, with the resulting carb %. If the carb % formula is 10 or over, it comes up as red. 10 or under, comes up as green. Anyway...if I set this sheet up correctly (I used it again on this Kahoots food and it came out to 1%), might make it easier to calculate moving forward!

Kahoots is great! It's a local Southern CA pet store that has tons of different types of food - huge section of frozen food as well. I was so excited to see they had their own pate as I feel like I've tried them all!

 

[Deb & Wink]

I would have done the spreadsheet calc setup myself, to recreate the manual calculations. If I had had the time.

Wondering if there is a way to share that spreadsheet.

Right now, it's view only and we can't enter any data on it to check the accuracy.
Would you be willing to make another copy, send it to me in a PM?

Without the restrictive permissions you have on the current version?

Then I could test a few more foods.