Kafka

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kafka

kafka

Member Since 2010
Hello,

Kafka
10 years old
20 lbs
wet Wellness diet
Lantus 1 unit 2 a day
Walgreens "super thin II 0.3 cc short needle syringe and 31 gauge"
his BG at the vet was 436


My 10 year old cat Kafka was diagnosed with diabetes a week ago.
He's 20 lbs and his diet was dry "light" Science (free feeding) and a daily afternoon snack of canned salmon.

The doctor recommended to start with changing his diet to a "real" low carb and Lantus (Glargine) insulin at 1 unit, twice a day for the next two weeks.

It took me until today (Monday) to start him on the insulin. I wanted to start on the weekend but the vet didn't called for the insulin until Saturday night and then on Sunday when I was ready for his first dosage I thought that 1 unit was such a small dosage!, and I was questioning if I had the right info; I could not call the vet since they are closed on Sunday so spend some time here until I figure things out by looking at your site and pictures of syringes. I realized that 1 until is was right, I am using the Walgreens "super thin II 0.3 cc short needle syringe and 31 gauge" - it seems almost like I am injecting nothing but I guess that's the right amount. (see, when we don't have experience, every single thing is a big question, I am committed to take care of Kafka and didn't wanted to do anything wrong)

Also, I was having a hard time to understand how the vet wanted me to:
1) change his diet
2) give him insulin
Without home testing or monitoring his sugar levels. I have read the Diabetes in Cats for Beginners article and besides being super overwhelm with information, I did understood that diet and insulin needed to happen soon.

He's a super nervous cat (at the vet he did number 1 and 2 out of stress)
The vet told me that the 2 insulin units a day for 2 weeks would be safe, that I should start testing in two weeks and re consider he's treatment, if needed. I am a bit skeptical not to start home testing but there are too many changes for him and he's just handling things ok. I want for him to take one step at a time and injecting him twice a day and several holes on his ears may not be the best thing to do right now. I thinking to wait to start home testing 2 weeks.

I changed his diet to a wet Wellness canned. According to the rules he should be eating 15-25 calories per lb. - I rounded the number to 20 and the can of Wellness chicken has 220 calories per can - so he should be eating 2 cans a day!!??

Questions:
-Is it ok for him to be taking the insulin and me not testing him daily and several times like most of you do?
-At changing his diet drastically from dry to wet (he's doing ok so far) is it 2 cans of Wellness a bit too much?
He loves to eat but he's not eating that much so far. Should I combined with "really low carb" dry food when I leave for work.
The vet told me to not think of his "ideal" weight yet but feed him according to his "real" weight.

My plan is to figure things out with his diet and before he's back at the vet, I will do "Blood Glucose Curve" here at home and have the doctor work with me on a plan. I think because of his stress level, he's results may not be accurate at the vet.

I know you would tell me to take a deep breath...I am - I am taking a few days home to make sure he's ok and responding well to the insulin, he's right here by my side.
I just need more simplified information. Anyone with questionable commitment to their pets may give up by being overwhelm with all the info out there and the so many contradictions.

In solidarity,

Marco
 
Hi Marco,
You sure have been doing your research, and yes, it's very overwhelming because there is so much to learn, but don't worry, we all started where you did. It takes time to learn and we understand that and will be willing to answer any questions, even if you think they are stupid. They aren't stupid questions, and we all asked them. :) I think your vet sounds really great. He is right that 1u twice a day is a good starting dose, and he's right about the food too. Glad to hear you've got Wellness food for him and for all you've been doing, I'm very proud. Kafka is a very loved kitty. :smile:

My biggest question and concern is that you are saying he's not eating that much. A diabetic cat should be eating you out of house and home. If he is not eating well, that leads me to believe something else is going on, such as possibly pancreatitis, hairball, constipation, or more seriously, ketoacidosis or hepatic lipidosis. Has he recently been diagnosed with any of these things? How long has he not had much of an appetite? Can you fill us in on how many ounces he is eating per day?

Food: if those cans are 5.5oz, yes, 2 cans a day is a reasonable start. Later, as Kafka becomes more regulated, you can feed 6-8oz a day. Right now he's gonna be very hungry so it's ok to start out a little high on the food. You can find terrific nutrition info at http://www.catinfo.org by Dr. Lisa Pierson, which will probably corroborate most of what your vet has told you already.

Now I want to talk to you about hometesting. There are some fears that people have about hometesting and I see you are concerned with holes in their ears. This does not happen. The lancing that you do is just a tiny pin-prick and heals so quickly you won't see it even minutes after doing the test. When you get the little drop of blood that you need, you use a tissue to firmly press his ear with and that stops the bleeding within seconds. Holding it for about 30 seconds clots the blood and it heals right up. Here's a great list of links, pictures and videos for you to see that will show you it's not cruel, and that it's very easy to do: http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=287

There are many members here who have cats who have suddenly not needed insulin once the food has been switched to wet from dry, and two of them are right here today. One is Dillan, the other is Paige. Had they not been testing, they would not have known their cats no longer needed such high doses, and would not have known their cats were almost diet controlled.. and that is why we seem so insistent about hometesting. My first diabetic, Spot was off the juice in 3 weeks after a nasty series of hypoglycemic events I did not know were happening until I started hometesting. My 3rd diabetic, Roxanne, was diet controlled within FOUR doses of insulin. You can imagine what would have happened if I'd kept shooting blindly. There are hundreds of these stories on this board, and while they seem like miracle stories, they are actually quite common.

Don't worry about learning everything right now, and don't berate yourself for not doing everything exactly right. We're here to provide information and help you learn to treat your own cat, and we'll be glad to help you along the way. Welcome!
 
Just want to say welcome, as Carolyn has given you great information. There's a lot to absorb at first, but you're in the right place to take care of Kafka. It gets easier, really. :-D
 
Welcome Marco and Kafka :YMHUG:

You have come to the best place to be if you have a diabetic cat. I just came from Webber's vets office to show her his spreadsheet and to tell her that after tomorrow he is officially OTJ (off the juice). She was amazed and said that if I had not been doing homestesting like I was I might have OD'd him on too much insulin had I listened to her suggestion to give 4Units every day.

A couple of things....Marco....you have already switched Kafka's food so that is one change done and good for you!! The other thing is you have began giving the insulin which is another change done and good for you!! The last key component that I strongly urge you on is home testing before the two weeks is up.

Many cats blood glucose levels run high at the vet because of stress. So it is ideal to do hometesting to get true idea of how the insulin is working. Have to started home testing at all? Do you have a glucometer?

My Webber was a champ when it came to testing. I did choose to use the pens that come with the glucometer instead of using the lancet free hand. The pens are much quicker than I could be at poking and he did not even feel it with the pen. Most of us rub a little neosporin on the ears after we test too, to help soothe the ear and perhaps prevent any bruising.

So my point is, you have already made the most necessary changes needed towards Kafka's health and he seems to be doing well from what you said. The home testing is really easy once you do it a few times. Believe me!! We have all been in your shoes. I used to get butterflies in my stomach every morning and night when it was time to test Webber. But he got to where he liked it because he knew he would get treats afterwards. :lol: Actually, my 3 other cats got the hang of testing time too because they too would get treats after Webber's tests.

We have a newbie here also who was scared to hometest. She had someone near her come to help the first couple of times and now she is a pro. I think it is Michelle and Scrabble?

I really encourage you to start home testing. It will help you see the progress and prevent your self from giving him too much insulin. I know every cat is different, but Webber was only on insulin for a month. In that time he dropped below 50 several times and that is how we decreased his dose to where he no longer needs it. I am not saying that this same thing will happen with Kafka, but if you wait 2 weeks before you test......
 
paige said:
Actually, my 3 other cats got the hang of testing time too because they too would get treats after Webber's tests.
Click to expand...

Your house too huh.. "breakfast", "supper", "cookies" and "Nova is it time for a test?" results in 3 cats coming out of the woodwork and forming a line.

Hometesting is very important.. then sooner you do it, and the more of it you do.. the more data you'll have.. and the greater chance you'll have of Kafka becoming regulated. That you not only took time off work to be with him but ended up here, it's obvious you care about him a lot. I know you want to give him the best chance at being healthy and happy as you can, hometesting is an important part of the equation.
 
Hi and welcome!

You have come to a great place. I have been here two moths today. Two months! It seems so much longer--like a second home. And in that time, I have gone from freaked-out clueless woman to cat-on-an-OTJ-trial woman! (OTJ means off the juice here, or off insulin.)

Testing: I am fortunate to live in a house of all pet lovers. My daughter is away at college, but my husband and adult son are here and at the beginning, it took (or so we thought) all three of us to test. We made such a production out of it, you would have thought it was a NASA-level event. After a couple of weeks of this Keystone Cops routine, and after I realized Basil was pretty okay with this as long as there was a small yummy forthcoming after the test, I suddenly decided to try it myself. Lo and behold, I did it! Okay, it took three tries but the only one upset was me, not Basil! I use the clicky pen, a sock with warm rice and that's it. Basil is fine with it. Purrs most of the time. If I can do it, anyone can!

So, the short of it is, please home test. You will be amazed at what you learn and it could save your cat's life because you will KNOW, not GUESS, how much insulin your kitty needs.

The second thing I wanted to mention is the food. I was not clear from your discussion, but are you considering using both wet and dry? Because dry is not a good idea, even very low card dry. I tried that for a while. It was like a miracle after I stopped. I just wish I'd done it sooner.

I hope we'll see you here each day, keeping us all up to date with Kafka's progress and telling us about just how great he is doing!
 
I just wanted to stop by and say, "Welcome!" Everyone has said everything I could have possibly wanted to say so I'm not going to be repetitious. What I will say is please continue to ask questions. Visit our condos and look at our spreadsheets and ask questions. We're a social group and we help each other learn. There is usually someone around 24/7 -- there are members from all over the world.

Welcome to Lantus Land. This is a truly wonderful community of people who are dedicated to their cats and really do want to help.
 
Thank you all for your support!
I got the message, will start home testing. Kakfa and I share our space with Lola, another cat so the testing it's on me. If I go to work all day, how do you recommend to test?. I will give him the insulin at 8am and 8pm. I typically leave the house at 9am and will be back before 8pm. How do I do this?
Do I have to test him at + 1 + 2 + 3 + 4 + 5 + 6 + 7 + 8 + 9 + 10 +11?

About his food. Maybe I didn't explain myself (there's a language barrier)...
Kafka has been eating Wellness since a few days ago. He is supposed to eat 2 cans a day. Yesterday, I noticed he didn't finished the 2 cans of food, during the day. Is not that he's not eating at all. I am also giving him salmon as snack.
The reason that I was thinking to add dry food to the mix is because if he does not eat the whole can in the morning and I leave it out when I go to work, I don't want Lola to get overweight too. How should I manage that?
I totally agree that wet food is the best option and my goal is to get them to get used to meals but I guess it is a matter of time and getting used to.

Thanks !

In Solidarity,

Marco
 
Hello Marco,

opps sorry - another long welcome! :lol:
welcome the to Lantus forum. Interesting name for your kitty - Kafka.

a lot of members here work during the day, and pretty much the only opportunities to test are in the evenings, weekends and days off.
So no - you don't have to test every hour - cuz of course, you can't! But there are some times that we suggest.

So you test, shoot and feed at 8am, and leave the house by 9am, which is a +1... to fill in the blanks, you can do what we call an "out the door test"...then you get home, an "in the door test"

Weekends and days off, you can add a few more, you don't have to do a full curve which is usually every two hours or a mini curve which is about every 3 hours, you do what you can, with what time you have available.

there will be a time thou - where a curve is recommended, most here plan ahead for that, so say for example, this saturday I am home I will be able to do a curve. This can be done in one cycle, the AM cycle, or both...AM and PM.

At the evening cycle, you can do a +3, which is the onset for Lantus, and a before bedtime check...when you start to hit the lower numbers you may be testing a bit more, this is where you can post for help, if you need it, or just update when you can - on how Kafka is doing.


Kafka has been eating Wellness since a few days ago. He is supposed to eat 2 cans a day. Yesterday, I noticed he didn't finished the 2 cans of food, during the day. Is not that he's not eating at all. I am also giving him salmon as snack.
The reason that I was thinking to add dry food to the mix is because if he does not eat the whole can in the morning and I leave it out when I go to work, I don't want Lola to get overweight too. How should I manage that?
I totally agree that wet food is the best option and my goal is to get them to get used to meals but I guess it is a matter of time and getting used to.
Click to expand...

Just diagnosed kitties often need a lot more food at the beginning...I too was going thru two cans of Wellness for my cat...this does gradually decrease, as well as other good physical changes like their coat will become softer and they will become more playful, lots of neat changes!

What does Lola eat? Just dry food?
If you are interested in food transitioning, Dr Lisa's Feline Nutrition link someone gave you up above, is a great learning tool. Many of us have gone thru this and not every kitty gets it in a week, some takes longer, but the important thing to remember is to take your time, especially for Kafka, who is on insulin.

One of the things I did not want, is two diabetic kitties, so both my cats were switched at the same time, they were easy, cuz they ate wet food along with the dry and loved the wet food anyway.

I see you're feeding Wellness,,,which flavours? You may want to alternate flavours, and if you're feeding fish flavours more than the others, this can take a bit of time to get them to eat other flavours...fish flavours are like kitty wet food crack :lol: Cats love fish flavours and get hooked on it and refuse to touch anything else. Also, feeding too much fish flavours isn't too good on their system.
Rotating flavours may be an option for you, it may take a while to entice, so a bit of patience is needed.

You may want to consider a timed feeder to use during the day and overnite, the PetSafe 5 compartment, holds wet food very well.

We're glad you found the board and the Lantus forum, and hope to see you posting often!
 
First I'd like to welcome you to Lantus Land Marco and Kafka, this forum is just as important for Kafka's Diabetes as the wet food diet change was. There are no words to describe what this forum will be able to do for you if you provide everyone with the data. Dillan was diagnosed with diabetes around a month ago, he was on a high carb dry food (Hill's CD) and then by the vets adivice we switched him to a low carb dry food (Hill's MD). Once I provided my information to LL (lantus land) they immediately insisted on the wet food so the slow switch began and Dillan's numbers started to drop (Wellness Wet Food). Its good to see that you have a good vet that has got you started on the right path. Dillan's vet was not even close to being as good as the one you are dealing with. So your vet being a good reference, using this forum for everyday communication and wet food

As everyone has already said above it is extremely important to start home testing as soon as possible. If we did not start when we did especially with the diet change Dillan had it is possible that we would have had one sick kitty. Dillan's numbers went from the 200s down to 60s over the weekend when we changed his diet, so this shows you the dramatic change BG numbers can take.

I understand your worries that you have with poking Kafka's ears I had the exact same worries but I think Dillan began to get more accustomed to it faster then I did. The one thing that this forum provides you with is alot of advice like how to home test, how to switch from dry food to wet food, how to get your kitty to eat when they are not eating, how to get through Hypo attacks etc and these are just to name a few. For Dillan's testing we set him up on the counter (where we feed him and also inject him with insulin) my GF holds on to Dillan we heat up a sock with rice in it and start to heat up his ear with it. Once his ear is somewhat warm I put Vaseline on his ear to help pool the blood and then I use a pen lancet to poke his ear. He doesn't even flinch during this so I don't even think he feels it happen, I think its more discomfort from his ear being held. Then I take the blood reading (sometimes at first it can be frustrating to get the correct sample size but keep on trying, stroke his ear towards the poke sometimes this can help get the blood drop bigger) Once the testing is done then we put Polysporine on his ear and give him a treat. The more you test the easier and more accustomed your kitty gets to testing. DIllan was easier to do tests on when we were testing every couple hours then now only being a couple times a day.

Everyone is giving excellent advice above. I know theres alot of information to take in but just slowly take it in. You have already done all of the important things to get Kafka started now just get the home testing started and start reading what you can and you are set. If you have any questions for me about my story just PM me and i'll be happy to help you if I can or direct you to someone who can.

Welcome Again Marco and Kafka :-D
 
Good news everyone Kafka was tested at home for the very first time tonight!!!
His sugar levels are 228 after 3 days of insulin and low carb diet!
It was a bit scary at the beginning because I could not get the pen to work well (I need to learn how to use that) and I ended up using the lancent alone and got his blood in the first attempt! I used a cotton ball and he did great!


I want to thank you all for your support and encouragement and all the well wishes!

I went for the first time ever in my life, to Walmart and got all the stuff that Dr. Lisa A. Pierson recommended.

I will continue testing him daily and this weekend I will try a curve.

Good night everyone!
Kafka, Lola and Marco
 
Congratulations, and nice number :-D
Some people (myself included), use the lancet "free-hand". Heck, most of the time Donovan barely wakes up when I do it. It's all very scary at first, but it soon becomes a part of your life. Speaking of which, gotta go grab a PM +3 :razz:
 
Congrats on your first home test!!

Now, if you visit the Tech Forum you will find information on how to set up a spreadsheet and link it to your signature so you can keep track of Kafka's BG numbers and everyone can take a look at Kafka's progress.
 
Awesome job!!!!

From what you described Kafka like at the vet.. it sounds like even his first test was significantly less stressful on him then that!!

If you want to fiddle with the pen some more.. muck about with it on yourself.. or you can just keep using the lancets, some people find that easier..

If you do decide to poke yourself.. here's a picture that shows where on your finger is a good place to poke... any finger will do (first random picture I found.. I'm sure there are better :) ).

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_SjLYBe_gzUQ/S ... s-test.jpg
 
Welcome to Lantus Land!! You have gotten all the info you need to begin AND already home tested--Hey you are one of us now :mrgreen:
There is much to learn, but you are already on your way!! You will see positive changes in your cat, and you will know that it is working--
But please remember, Look at the Whole Cat--Behavior, temperment, and the very important 5 P's--Preening, Playing, Peeing, Pooping,& Purring!
The numbers do so count, but so does the WCR, which is the Whole Cat Report. You can give this in a very short version in your daily post , so we can see how cat is doing overall..
Welcome to the sugar dance..and to our group.. :-D
 
Yay! Good work!

Soon, you;ll be on here advising other people on technique. I guarantee it!
 

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To all the folks who helped along the way...
Kafka is not longer diabetic and he's is just on a diet and super healthy...He does not need the insulin injections anymore and he's a happy cat!
I appreciate all the support on this year, he is really such a good cat and I am so happy he's healthy and well...
thanks!
Marco
 
I didnt see the date of the earlier messages so when I got to the end I thought "WOW that's a fast cat or he's joking!!"...then I went back and checked the dates :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

I'm glad Kafka is healthy and happy!
 
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