just some questions

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storm

storm

Member Since 2017
Insulin has been ordered from Canada, Lantus, just waiting for it to get here. He is currently getting free choice YA Zero Mature Health (reordered and also ordered YA Zero Cat Food as my other cats are not really liking the Mature formula) plus 2 cans FF Classics 3 times a day or 1 can Friskies Classic pates/9 Lives Meaty Pates 3 times a day. ( waiting for nutritional information from Manufacturer on Walmart brand Special Kitty Pate and Everpet Pate (sold at Dollar General) as both are made by same JM Smuckers that makes 9 lives, have a feeling they both have same nutritional info as 9 lives pates but they are just labeled different for the different suppliers)

Cinnamon was prescribed 1 unit twice a day .. now if this amount works for him and he doesn't need an increase in units.

Approx. how long can I expect a 100 unit vial to last me before I have to reorder another? I am thinking about 50 days, would this be correct? (vet told me 3-4 months but this doesn't sound correct to me) If 50 days is correct, I would reorder on the 40th day to make sure it arrives before the current vial is used up.

Once he is on the insulin, with a human meter ( Relion Prime) what numbers should I be looking for to know its safe to give him a shot? my biggest fear/concern is him testing with a number that is ok to shoot but coming home from work to find his numbers went too low, I read the meter information document but was a bit confused as to how to read the numbers to know if its X number or higher, it is safe to shoot and if its Y number or less, not to shoot.

I have been home testing every few days, after meals, since he isn't on insulin yet, I have saved a copy of the spreadsheet to my Google Doc folder, should I wait until he is on insulin to start entering in his numbers or should I start entering his pre-insulin numbers now?
Should I test him before and then again after he eats to compare what those numbers are?

Once he is on Insulin, I know to do a AM/PM BG test before feeding him and before giving him a shot, once I have given him a shot, how long should I wait until I can feed him breakfast/dinner?
 
(Forgive me... I am on my phone, so I cant give links or smoothly do quotes. There arw also a ton of typos. )

For your questions on numbers to shoot... over in the Lantus Insulin Support group, there are forum "stickies" that go over a lot of information. There are 2 protocols we use so review those and see if one of them sounds good. For when you first start, there are guides for preshots. Typically, until you have history, its noted to not shoot under 200.

The spreadsheet... yes, definitely enter what you have collected so far. Everything is useful.

For food, you can feed right at shot time. Most Lantus kitties do good with multiple meals during the day. There are a few autofeeders people use. The only time line to adhere to is: no food 2 hours before preshot test. You want to make sure that number is not food influenced.

I see youre in NH! Where? I am in Nashua (for the next few weeks for now.)

Ill tag some Lantus subject matter experts... @Bobbie And Bubba @Doodles & Karen @carfurby @Tricia Cinco(GA) & Harvey
 
I am in Milton ( stones throw from Lebanon, ME) in Stafford County

for food he has 24/7 access to the YA with wet for breakfast, dinner and before my bedtime .. an auto feeder wouldn't work as there are 6 other cats in the house and one of those is a bully. i live alone so no way to say take up the YA before i would do a PM test as i would end up testing and shooting more than 12 hours from his AM shot if i had to do that when i get home from work.

i will pop over to the Lantus group and read up more on things there .. thank you for the help
 
Greetings and welcome! I think it is great you are already testing. This is great practice without the pressure of timing and dosing insulin. One thing to read up on will be how to handle and dose insulin. If you purchased a vial, it is likely 100 units / ml which would be 1000 units in the 10 ml vial. Assuming that is the case and Cinnamon does well with 2 units / day it will last a very long time. It will say it will expire within 28 days, but you will see details in the stickies regarding it lasting several months if handled properly.

The spreadsheet will really help you with data. The next most important thing is consistency - consistency in timing (every 12 hours) and consistency of dose. You have asked about timing for food and shots. You will see the mantra "test, feed, shoot" often. This is recommended to confirm you have a safe test number (not influenced by food) and that your cat will eat. With confirmation he is eating you can shoot.

Good luck getting your spreadsheet organized - you can leave the AM/PM dose blank until you begin insulin - then that column should indicate the dose given. It would be great to update your signature with link to spreadsheet and indication you are using Relion meter. Planning and organization can really help - you are well on your way!
 
Thanks .. i planned to update my siggy once i was all set to go with the spread sheet .. i just wasnt sure if i should be inputting the pre-insulin data since he isnt on insulin yet
 
Thanks Cass for calling me a Lantus expert but the other gals you tagged are much more knowledgeable than I but, I can answers some of Storm's questions.



storm said:
Approx. how long can I expect a 100 unit vial to last me before I have to reorder another?
Click to expand...
In a 100 unit vial or solostar pen, you would take the amount of units a day that you are giving to Cinnamon, which is 1 unit twice /day or 2 units/day into the 100 and the amount of days that it would last would be 50 days. So, you had that figured out correctly. The pens are in my opinion better than the glass vials as you can literally get every last drop out of them because of the vacuum in the pen whereas the bottles are hard to extract the last little bit from them.

Cass was right about not shooting anything under 200 until you get enough data to know how Cinnamon is going to react to the insulin. After you have enough data you will lower that number. The Spread Sheet will help you to see the patterns and trends of his cycles. The instructions are here for How to create our spreadsheet . If you click on any of our signatures you will see SS and if you click on that you are able to see our kitties SS and this helps up to be able to help you with dosing questions.

Here is an explanation on how to interpret the SS:

AMPS is the AM Pre-shot test (always test before shooting to make sure they're high enough to give insulin)...then the U column is for "Units" (how much you gave)

The +1, +2, +3, etc are for how many hours since shooting...so +2 is 2 hours after the AM shot, +9 is 9 hour after, etc.....Since we're all over the world here, saying "he was at 148 at 8pm" doesn't tell us anything...we need to know how long since his last shot

At the end of a 12 hour cycle, it's PMPS time! (PM Pre-shot) and the whole thing starts over.

The most important tests to get are always the preshot tests so you know if it is safe to shoot the insulin. And another great test to get is the +2 test because if it is the same number or lower than the pre shot test it indicates that the cycle could be active and more monitoring is required. Also around +5-7 which is typically the nadir or the lowest point in the cycle. Also, a before you go to bed in the PM cycle as a lot of kitties go lower at night time.

The routine we use in each cycle is Test, Feed and Shoot (T/F/S) and all this takes place in about 5-7 minutes unless you have one of those particular eaters. Not Bubba. He sucks down his meal faster than I can clean up the counter from feeding all the animals. :rolleyes:

It looks like you have done your reading to know that a low carb wet food is the best for our Sugar Cats. Hopefully the nutritional information you have requested will come soon. Since you are feeding some Young Again dry, you will need to follow the Start Low Go Slow method of dosing since dry food is metabolized slower than wet food and since the Tight Regulation (TR) is an aggressive protocol for safety reasons you should follow SLGS. The stickie for that method is Here With SLGS you won't be shooting anything under 90 but as mentioned above you will not shoot anything under 200 until you have some data on Cinnamon.

I hope I answered your questions and so glad you found this forum as there are such incredibly kind and helpful peeps here not to mention a lot of experience and knowledge. Keep asking questions as that is how we all learned. And Welcome!
 
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Thank you Bobbie

yes the SLGS method is what would work for me and seems that is the way my vet is having me start ( she originally wanted him on just all wet food but she agreed to see how he does on the YA since there is no way to offer him a freshly opened can of wet while I'm at work unless I keep him isolated from the other cats so they cant get it before he does ( 1 bdrm Apt not layed out in design very well as you have to go into the bathroom to get to bedroom lol) .. the TR I dont think would work for me .. Cinnamon is not a big fan of eating the frozen wet food as I was going that route when he was first diagnosed since my works days can be long ones .. I tried freezing chunks of canned and leaving them out on small plates in different areas when I left for work as well as putting wet food in my smoothie mixer with a small amount of water or low sodium chicken broth then freezing in ice trays then putting those out in different spots .. the first day or 2 he ate the frozen wet but after that i would come home and find he was crazed with hunger and the frozen stuff defrosted and untouched so I figured I would get some YA so he had something to eat during the day and wouldn't be so starved when I returned home from work.

I purchased the Relion meter on 4/21 and only have a few readings since I'm only testing every few days .. the first 1 is high 500+ ( he wasnt happy about having his ear poked) and was taken at 3pm on 4/21, how would I enter that on the spreadsheet? are the boxes color coded automatically when I enter in the number or do I have to do that manually? I also want to add a note across all columns indicating the current numbers are before he was on insulin .. I have seen some other members that have done something similar for various changes to their kitty's spreadsheets, how would I do that? .. I'm not familiar with working with spreadsheets .. I know I can drag text in 1 box across all columns and have the text fill in each box but was looking for 1 continuous line of text and didn't want to just keep adding the text to the remarks area.
 
Yes, eating is good and if he isn't eating the defrosted wet food while you are gone that could be problematic while he is on insulin and you are not home all day. So the YA dry could be your best friend. I do give Bubba and my civvie cat, Forrest 1 tbsp. a day at their 2 AM feeding as I don't want to be bothered handling raw food ( that is what they both currently eat) at 2 AM :rolleyes:

To answer your question about the SS, when you enter a number, it automatically fills in the appropriate color for that number. If you should put any verbiage into the cell, ie, what food you fed, then you will have to fill the cell manually. Highlight the cell and go to the tool bar at the top and look for the paint can that is tipped over ( about 3/4 of the way across the tool bar from the left.) Click on that and it will drop down a color chart. Click on the appropriate color for the test result and it will fill the cell in.

To differentiate that the test you are entering now are before Lantus, choose a color and take it across the row horizontally and then type into the colored cells BEFORE LANTUS WAS STARTED. Then after Lantus is started , do the same. There might be a better more efficient way to do this but, I am not real tech saavy and had to get help setting up my SS :( Actually, I admit it, I am a tech mo-mo :rolleyes:

Lots of us use automatic feeders that we program to open up at certain times of the day. You could put frozen wet into the compartment to thaw out later. I would do the frozen wet in the first part of the day and use the YA for later in the day so you don't have to worry about spoilage.

I do realize that it is very hard when you are in a multiple cat/ animal home and that you work every day so , all you can do is your best. With you boy losing so much weight, it is crucial that he eats and if it is some dry then it has to be that way. The good news is that the YA is protein dense and low carb. Make sure you add about 1 tbsp. of water to his wet food and stir since the dry isn't the best way to go as cats don't drink enough water as it is.

From the calculations that I have done 1 tbsp. of YA = about 49 calories.
 
well I know he still drinks a lot of water .. not as much as he was when he was first diagnosed but when I refill the bowl every morning, there is a good 1-2 inches missing from it .. my dogs have a bucket for their water which the other 6 cats also drink out of .. Cinnamon doesn't as it requires him to jump over the swing gate that keeps the dogs from snacking from the litter boxes. .. I am hoping once he is on insulin .. he will actually start peeing in the litter boxes more than once a day .. I have 3 in my bedroom, 3 in my walk in closet and 2 in my bathroom and he will only use 1 box in the closet but as soon as he pees in it once .. he wont pee in it again and instead pees in different spots in my bedroom .. I have plastic down on the hardwood floor with pee pads on that but under area rugs and under the big thick bath towels I have on spots the area rugs don't cover. I dont know if he could have been pre diabetic all his life and that's why he peed on floors or in closets instead of the litter box when I took him with me when I moved or if his life living outside, going where ever he could, just became an ingrained habit, when inside he never had or has an issue pooping in the litter box .. its just peeing in it.
 
storm said:
I also want to add a note across all columns indicating the current numbers are before he was on insulin .. I have seen some other members that have done something similar for various changes to their kitty's spreadsheets, how would I do that? ..
Click to expand...

To add an extra line you click on the number of the row where you want the line inserted that will select all the row then you right click on the mouse and a drop down menu will appear, there you select "add a line above" and it will insert a line.

For a text to go across all the columns you write the text on the cell of first column, hit enter, then go back to the cell and from there select all the columns, you can do that either with your mouse or by pressing the shift key and moving the cursor with the arrows of your keyboard while pressing the shift key when you have all the cells that you want your text to be across selected you go to the top menu and select the icon that says "combine cells" or "merge cells ", that will place the text across all the selected columns (hope this makes sense)
 
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ok another question
when my insulin arrives .. my vet will call in the script for the syringes to the local pharmacy .. in my area we have Walmart, CVS, Walgreens and Rite Aid .. which one would be the cheapest and approx what would the cost be?
 
well the vet asked me which pharmacy did i want to get the syringes from as they would call in the script to them for me .. maybe my state requires a script? we have a big opioid issue here
 
Bobbie And Bubba said:
Thanks Cass for calling me a Lantus expert but the other gals you tagged are much more knowledgeable than I but, I can answers some of Storm's questions.

In a 100 unit vial or solostar pen, you would take the amount of units a day that you are giving to Cinnamon, which is 1 unit twice /day or 2 units/day into the 100 and the amount of days that it would last would be 50 days. So, you had that figured out correctly. The pens are in my opinion better than the glass vials as you can literally get every last drop out of them because of the vacuum in the pen whereas the bottles are hard to extract the last little bit from them.
Click to expand...
@Bobbie And Bubba
the vial of Lantus is 10ml (100 units per ml) if i am reading the description correctly .. so still only last me 50 days or will it last longer .. trying to set up a reorder reminder on my tablet and cell and want to make sure its set up to go off 2 weeks before i run out .. i can edit it if his dosage increases to remind me sooner but just want to get it in there now before i forget
 
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storm said:
well the vet asked me which pharmacy did i want to get the syringes from as they would call in the script to them for me .. maybe my state requires a script? we have a big opioid issue here
Click to expand...
Some places told me they'd only take the prescription if it was sent directly to them (Walmart), but oddly Walgreens took my paper script.
 
no paper script .. they prefer to call which ever pharmacy you want to use for scripts
 
storm said:
no paper script .. they prefer to call which ever pharmacy you want to use for scripts
Click to expand...
Also, once you get your first box, check out ADW Diabetes supply. They have awesome deals and the stuff ships fast. They too need a script, but they just have you call them with your vet's info and they will request it on your behalf.
 
I figured it incorrectly in my first post to you. I was going by a pen of insulin.
storm said:
@Bobbie And Bubba
the vial of Lantus is 10ml (100 units per ml) if i am reading the description correctly .. so still only last me 50 days or will it last longer .. trying to set up a reorder reminder on my tablet and cell and want to make sure its set up to go off 2 weeks before i run out .. i can edit it if his dosage increases to remind me sooner but just want to get it in there now before i forget
Click to expand...
I think I gave you bum scoop before, a 10ml vial would have 1000 units in it and if Cinnamon's dose stayed at 2 units a day ( but it will probably change) but for the sake of figuring now, that would last 500 days or 16 1/2 months. That is longer than the vial will last expiration wise. Now if his dose goes up then it wouldn't last as long as 16 months. That is another one of the reasons a lot of us use the Solo Star Pens. They are 3ML and they will last expiration wise refrigerated up to 6 months even though the manufacturer says 28 days. The 28 days is assuming that it is not refrigerated but in a woman's handbag or a man's shirt pocket of brief case.
 
Carol in Chicago said:
Greetings and welcome! I think it is great you are already testing. This is great practice without the pressure of timing and dosing insulin. One thing to read up on will be how to handle and dose insulin. If you purchased a vial, it is likely 100 units / ml which would be 1000 units in the 10 ml vial. Assuming that is the case and Cinnamon does well with 2 units / day it will last a very long time. It will say it will expire within 28 days, but you will see details in the stickies regarding it lasting several months if handled properly.

The spreadsheet will really help you with data. The next most important thing is consistency - consistency in timing (every 12 hours) and consistency of dose. You have asked about timing for food and shots. You will see the mantra "test, feed, shoot" often. This is recommended to confirm you have a safe test number (not influenced by food) and that your cat will eat. With confirmation he is eating you can shoot.

Good luck getting your spreadsheet organized - you can leave the AM/PM dose blank until you begin insulin - then that column should indicate the dose given. It would be great to update your signature with link to spreadsheet and indication you are using Relion meter. Planning and organization can really help - you are well on your way!
Click to expand...
Carol! I'm in Chicago too!
 
Bobbie And Bubba said:
I figured it incorrectly in my first post to you. I was going by a pen of insulin.

I think I gave you bum scoop before, a 10ml vial would have 1000 units in it and if Cinnamon's dose stayed at 2 units a day ( but it will probably change) but for the sake of figuring now, that would last 500 days or 16 1/2 months. That is longer than the vial will last expiration wise. Now if his dose goes up then it wouldn't last as long as 16 months. That is another one of the reasons a lot of us use the Solo Star Pens. They are 3ML and they will last expiration wise refrigerated up to 6 months even though the manufacturer says 28 days. The 28 days is assuming that it is not refrigerated but in a woman's handbag or a man's shirt pocket of brief case.
Click to expand...

LOL thats fine .. my vet told me same thing about using it past expiration date, that she has had clients who used 1 vial for 6 months and then started a brand new one at the 6 month mark if i can get 4-6 months use from 1 vial that would be great .. i already copy, pasted into notepad as well as printed out the signs of what to look for if the insulin is no good or gets contaminated .. my fridge is awesome with keeping stuff at the perfect fridge temp .. i have had milk that still smelled, looked and tasted good ( according to my 21 yr old who popped over for a visit) 3 weeks after the expiration date on the milk jug so hopefully that works in my favor with the insulin .. i will set a reminder to check quantity and quality on the first friday of every month so if its not looking so good or seems to be losing its stength/not working properly or close to 6 months or less then 1/2 full i can reorder at that time
a friend who is diabetic told me to get electrical tape and gauze then wrap the bottle in it so in case its accidentally dropped, it gives it a little better protection against breakage, i have a roll of vet wrap i can use instead since its a self adhesive bandage
 
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