Just got told Tip has diabetes a few days ago

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Cindy & Pets

Cindy & Pets

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I'm so confused and worried. Some background on her:
She's an 11 year old, cute cat, black and white, but she's always kind of sleepy, calm, she's old. So she's slowed down a lot.

Anyways, her situation was that around her birthday, she was really skinny(Dec. 23rd), knowing that she's old and seems to have trouble with moving, and moves in pain when it's snowy, I thought it was just arthritis. But to ease my worry, I took her to the vet. She was 9lbs, compared to her 12lbs she was about 4-5 months ago. We struggled, she was on pred, but then we finally decided blood test was good, since the vet and I had exhausted all other options. We even put her on a mix of dry food and canned food(purina cat food, and I believe frisky's beef canned food). She got down to 7lbs 15oz.

Results were in. Turns out her bg was at 400. I thought I had all my questions taken care of while I was at the vet(I asked A LOT of questions), but I guess not. The insulin she's on is humulin(sp?).

Q1: Considering she was tired before all this happened, how can I tell when she's low? Since I was informed that it involves tired, if I've got it right)?

Q2: What kind of treats are best for diabetic cats?

Q3: When might I see weight gain?

Q4: Is it really okay to reuse needles so long as I take great care to not let them get dirty and only use them 3-4 times? As that's what I was told by the vet tech while I was learning how to give Tippy her insulin.

Thank you sooooo much in advance!
 
Sayania said:
I'm so confused and worried. Some background on her:
She's an 11 year old, cute cat, black and white, but she's always kind of sleepy, calm, she's old. So she's slowed down a lot.

Anyways, her situation was that around her birthday, she was really skinny(Dec. 23rd), knowing that she's old and seems to have trouble with moving, and moves in pain when it's snowy, I thought it was just arthritis. But to ease my worry, I took her to the vet. She was 9lbs, compared to her 12lbs she was about 4-5 months ago. We struggled, she was on pred, but then we finally decided blood test was good, since the vet and I had exhausted all other options. We even put her on a mix of dry food and canned food(purina cat food, and I believe frisky's beef canned food). She got down to 7lbs 15oz.

Results were in. Turns out her bg was at 400. I thought I had all my questions taken care of while I was at the vet(I asked A LOT of questions), but I guess not. The insulin she's on is humulin(sp?).

Q1: Considering she was tired before all this happened, how can I tell when she's low? Since I was informed that it involves tired, if I've got it right)?

Q2: What kind of treats are best for diabetic cats?

Q3: When might I see weight gain?

Q4: Is it really okay to reuse needles so long as I take great care to not let them get dirty and only use them 3-4 times? As that's what I was told by the vet tech while I was learning how to give Tippy her insulin.

Thank you sooooo much in advance!
Click to expand...

NO! never reuse needles. Never. Ever.

Where are you located?

The insulin Humulin is not a great one, and it's pretty harsh on the cat, plus does not last the full 12hours, but here's some info on that type.
Humulin Primer Info
What dose are you giving and what syringes are you using?
Speak to your vet about using Lantus or Levemir as they are much better insulins.

For food, you can remove the dry food as it's too high carb. Here are some food links for you.... look on Binky's for some wet foods with carbs under 10%
Binky’s Food Lists
Feeding Your Cat: Know The Basics of Feline Nutrition

For treats, I usually have freeze dried chicken or even steamed chicken or even raw chicken chunks. For other treats, you need to read the ingredients to be sure there are no sugars or syrups or any other sweeteners.

You will want to start home testing Tip's BG at home and before giving shots. With your testing at home, you will know when it's safe to give the shot and you will also be able to know if Tip is getting close to being off insulin.

I am sure that you will quickly see Tip improve as his BG numbers drop closer to normal. you will start to see your old Tip back.
 
Sayania said:
Q1: Considering she was tired before all this happened, how can I tell when she's low? Since I was informed that it involves tired, if I've got it right)?
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Real easy we teach you how to test her blood sugar at home..We all use just a regular human meter and test the edge of our cat's ear, just like a human diabetic test on their finger. In fact we test our cats before we give them their insulin so we know they are safe enough to give a shot too in the first place. I'm not going to kid you it's a little tricky at first to learn, but once you get it down it becomes like brushing your teeth..I can roll over test my one insulin dependent girl and go right back to sleep. :-D (I have 2 diabetics one in remission and off insulin and one that is still dependent on insulin). There are lots of tips and videos on how to home test here http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=287

Sayania said:
Q2: What kind of treats are best for diabetic cats?
Click to expand...

There is a bunch of them, mostly what you are looking for is stuff that is pure meat, personally I just boil up some chicken breasts without any spices and cut those into bite size pieces and store in a tuperware container in the fridge. But here is a list of low carb treats for diabetics. that can be purchased commercially. Others would be things like Cream Cheese, salad shrimp, tuna, hard cheese, and even raw chicken to name a few.

Sayania said:
Q3: When might I see weight gain?
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That is kind of an Every Cat Is Different (ECID) but usually once their bloodsugar starts coming down they start putting the weight back on. Right now she is literally starving to death because her body can't use the food she is eating properly...so let her eat all she wants. We will get back to the diet issue in a little bit. But basically insulin is a hormone that the body produces that allows the body to use the sugar that it breaks food down into for fuel, so without it or enough of it, she can't use what she is eating right.
Sayania said:
Q4: Is it really okay to reuse needles so long as I take great care to not let them get dirty and only use them 3-4 times?
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No! There is a coating on the needles that makes them slide into the skin easier that is gone after the first time you use them, and they become rougher and rougher the more you use the same needle. plus needles are dirt cheap, so there is really no reason to reuse a needle that is going to become painful to your girl. Walmart sells a box of their Relion U100 needles for 100 needles for $13...Now some brands are a little pricier but still better to use a new needle everytime than hurt your baby.

Okay now that I think I have answered all your questions. Let's get back to the issue of diet...you are going to want to ditch the dry food..it is way too high in carbs for a diabetic, it is sort of like giving Mountain Dew and Snickers to a human diabetic..tastes great but not good for them, in fact it really isn't good for any cat of any age. I have 13 cats (11 non-diabetics & 2 diabetics) they all eat what my diabetics eat, just good old fashioned Friskies Pate style canned food. But you need to find something she likes that is under 10% carbs and will eat, lots of folks here feed Friskies, 9-lives or Fancy Feast on the cheaper end of things or Wellness, Merrick or Evo on the higher end scale. But the great thing is you don't have to try to figure out the carb content for yourself, this is a chart that many of us use when picking out food for our Sugarcats http://binkyspage.tripod.com/canfood.html The carb precentages are in the third column from the left. :-D

Now for insulin...Unfortunately Humulin N is very old school for diabetic cats and doesn't work very well for them, it hits too hard and doesn't last long enough, so they drop low very quickly and then bounce right back up again way before their next shot...If you could convince your vet to switch Tip to either Lantus, Levermir (both are human insulins) or PZI it would be much better for Tip, as those are long lasting gentle insulins and are the 3 favorites here, especially Lantus which has a very high remissioon rate in the newly diagnoised.

Also 11 is no where close to old, we have several cats here that are celebrating the 16th, 17th, 18th and even 20th birthdays! :-D My own two are 13 and 12 and you couldn't tell them from my 2 year olds.

Oh yeah...Welcome to the FDMB family!! Just remember to breathe and ask all the questions that come to mind, and we will keep answering them.

Mel, Maxwell, Musette & The Fur Gang
 
Alright. I'll discuss that with my grandfather, as he's currently my back-up should I not be home(being a working college student, it makes things hard sometimes). It kind of seemed weird to me that it'd be okay to do that. But, just for extra information, why is it bad?

I'll talk to her about other insulins, I see the vet on friday to get her blood checked. In regards to the syringes....uhm....they're ultra comfort.

I'm located in Reynoldsburg, Ohio.

I'm not sure of what it's measurements are in(I'd have to check the needles), it's the 2nd mark on the syringe. It's a 1/2cc syringe max.

I'll look to lowering how much dry food she gets then. I know how sister sure isn't happy about being on a stricter feeding schedule, but she'll adjust(had Tip try can food and in a seperate bowl to make sure it wasn't just bullying since Christmas, the other one, is much bigger in size). I'm not sure how Christmas would handle being put on canned food. So I might just keep them out of each others bowls.

Would other meats work? Or is chicken the best one?

Alright. That's the one thing I'm really paranoid about, since I read a bunch of stuff here about it and I think it'd be really hard to tell since she's sleepy, etc. anyways.

I hope so. Especially with weight....I'm not proud with how the situation was handled(mostly by my own insecurity on if I was bothering the vet, or how long I should wait, or what).
 
Hi & welcome!

You are off to a great start...FDMB being the first.

Please don't wait until Friday to get her BG tested by the vet. You can do this at home with a meter. I use the Relion Confirm from Walmart. It was around $9, plus test strips 100 $36. Its important when you adminster insulin to check BG before shots & a couple of times through out. This way you will know how much insulin to give & don't send your friend into a hypo situation. Once you take away the dry food you might start seeing BG levels drop.

Who knows you might even be able to get your friend into remission with diet control.

I can't help you with insulin. I use ProZinc.

I won't reuse needles. It would be just like a human reusing needles...not good.

Please keep us updated.
Jenn & Baxter
 
Alright. I'll see if my grandpa can buy some since I'm short on cash(only $90, and got to save up for 2 $100 vet trips for my birds, yeah, 3 cats(one adopted us when his family tossed him out ): ), and 2 sisters. The outdoor one unfortunately can't come inside because the girls are so territorial).

Now....with the meter, how do those work? Does there have to be a different one? Like, my grandpa uses one, I'm not sure of the brand, but do they get set to that person? If so, then I think it should be easy to find one compatible with the strips he can buy anyways, right? Yeah....I was told by the vet that honey should be bought for emergency situations and before even calling, if I think she's going hypo, then rub a tiny bit of honey on her gums and then call to get her in, and if it's after hours, find the nearest 24/7 place.

I thought something was wrong with reusing needles....it just didn't seem right. But I wanted confirmation on it since I got the results wednesday, I learned how to give it to her yesterday, and was sent on my own today.

And will do. :)
 
You can use your Grandfather's meter until you get your own, if he doesn't mind. The only thing is that it will have both his numbers and her numbers in it. I will occassionally use Musette's meter for Maxwell and Maxwell's for Musette...heck I've even used their meters to check my own blood sugar even though I'm not diabetic.. :lol:

Mel, Maxwell, Musette & The Fur Gang
 
My meter is for humans. Many of the members here on the board use the one from Walmart.
Since your grandfather uses one then maybe you could share with him. Like I said you will always want to test before you give insulin.

For hypo situations you can use honey or Karo syrup. There are members on the board who have been through hypos all with the help from the board, they never needed to take there cat to the vet. This is where home testing is extremely important. As for testing is done every 15-30 minutes.
When you get a chance please read this:
viewtopic.php?f=28&t=15887

Also, take some time & visit this website. It will help you understand how important diet is, along with other great information.
www.catinfo.org.

Jenn & Baxter
 
Oh good. That'll give me time to make sure I have money for everything. :) I know the vet said we could, but it'd be up to us, they'd do the same thing we'd do at home, they still want to do weekly visits if I test at home or not. Just that it might be a bit difficult.

I'm especially glad I found out about the needles thing. I'll see if I have to get a prescription or not with the syringes(as my vet told me that they've had to occasionally give prescriptions because some stores has turned people down).

Oh. I do have 2 more questions though:

1. Normal for her to be hyper/kitten-like not long after her shot?

2. Does vein size have anything to do with stuff like this? Because I know when they did a blood test, they had to shave her in 2 different spots because they couldn't find a good enough vein(the vet commented that they were about as big as a kittens). Does being the 'runt' have anything to do with anything at all?
 
She is probably just feeling really good because her blood sugar is coming down right after her shot.. Once you get her bloodsugar down and stable she may act like a whole new cat! My 13 year old diabetic that is in remission and off insulin and diet controlled gives my kittens a run for their money when it comes to playing. :-D

Nope veins have nothing to do with it, you give the insulin under the skin and when you test you are using the capillaries not the vein in the ear..you just prick it enough to make it bleed a very little bit, exactly like your Grandfather does with his finger.

Mel, Maxwell, Musette & The Fur Gang
 
If your cat is sick then I could see you needing weekly visits. For FD & BG readings you don't need to do go weekly. You do what you think is best for your cat. It's going to cost you about $20 a reading from the vet. Plus, it won't be accurate. When a cat is stressed their BG will be higher. So it's better to do reading in their own home in comfort.

You can order needles online just make sure they are the same ones you have. Some will have different markings on them which is no big deal. You will need to use a conversation chart.
http://www.americandiabeteswholesale.co ... es_112.htm
I purchased my last box from SAMs club. I didn't have a problem getting them. They cost about $13 for 100.

I don't have answers to your 2 questions sorry. Hopefully, someone will log on soon & be able to answer them.
 
Humulin N is a U100 insulin it can't be used with a U40 syringe. PZI is a U40 insulin and can be used with a U100 insulin if you use a conversion chart. Lantus, Levermir and Humulin N are all U100 insulins. It is important that you only use them with U100 syringes.

Mel, Maxwell, Musette & The Fur Gang
 
Sayania said:
Oh good. That'll give me time to make sure I have money for everything. :) I know the vet said we could, but it'd be up to us, they'd do the same thing we'd do at home, they still want to do weekly visits if I test at home or not. Just that it might be a bit difficult.
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You don't have to take you kitty to the vet every week, you could just call in with your test results and see what they say.
I mean you don't need for them to test the kitty, because you're doing that at home, where your kitty is not all stressed out by being at the vets. A lot of kitties will have higher than normal blood glucose while at the vets because of the stress from just being there. You would also save money from not having those vet bills.

I'm especially glad I found out about the needles thing. I'll see if I have to get a prescription or not with the syringes(as my vet told me that they've had to occasionally give prescriptions because some stores has turned people down).

Oh. I do have 2 more questions though:

1. Normal for her to be hyper/kitten-like not long after her shot?

2. Does vein size have anything to do with stuff like this? Because I know when they did a blood test, they had to shave her in 2 different spots because they couldn't find a good enough vein(the vet commented that they were about as big as a kittens). Does being the 'runt' have anything to do with anything at all?
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1. You mean she's playing and frisky after her shot. That sounds like she is feeling better after getting her insulin.
2. I don't think vein size or being a runt has anything to do with diabetes.

Keep asking your questions, we're happy to help you to help your cat.
 
Sayania said:
Oh good. That'll give me time to make sure I have money for everything. :) I know the vet said we could, but it'd be up to us, they'd do the same thing we'd do at home, they still want to do weekly visits if I test at home or not. Just that it might be a bit difficult.

I'm especially glad I found out about the needles thing. I'll see if I have to get a prescription or not with the syringes(as my vet told me that they've had to occasionally give prescriptions because some stores has turned people down).

Oh. I do have 2 more questions though:

1. Normal for her to be hyper/kitten-like not long after her shot?

2. Does vein size have anything to do with stuff like this? Because I know when they did a blood test, they had to shave her in 2 different spots because they couldn't find a good enough vein(the vet commented that they were about as big as a kittens). Does being the 'runt' have anything to do with anything at all?
Click to expand...

The cheapest, most economical meter and strips would be the Relion. Pick up a Relion meter, some test strips and lancets for the meter, and also ask for a container of KETOSTIX from the pharmacist. You want to test her urine for Ketones as they can come on fast and you'll end up with a very sick kitty. I don't know why but it seems some cats are prone to ketones but not others, so best to test her and find out if she has any issues.
It's important to test before giving a shot because you may find she's too low for a shot. I know being a student, and having other animals and expenses, you may not be able to test as often as many others do on this site, but there are really only 3 tests that are most important and they are a test before each shot, and the 3rd test just before you go to bed. Once a week or so, it's a good idea to do a curve, testing every 2-3hrs on a 12 hr cycle, just to see how she's doing on the insulin and to see if you need to change the dose.

testing is quite easy and there are always people around here who can help you when just getting started.

if your cats are eating wet food sometimes now, why not just pick up the dry and see how they do..... it's better for their health, and it may get Tip right off insulin.

I don't know the brands or pricing of syringes in the US but look for a box of syringes that have 1/2 unit markings on them because dosing changes are done in small amounts. It sounds like you started at 2units and that may be a bit high. Increases are usually done in .25u or .5u amounts, so that's why you need syringes with the 1/2 unit lines. Ask the pharmacist maybe.
if you look at the syringes you have now, what's on the packaging? It likely says for single use only.

Pick up the scruff on Tip; you are shooting into that lifted scruff and under the skin. For the testing on the meter strips, you are just poking along the edge of the tip of Tip's ear, then sipping the drop of blood up the test strip you put in the meter. And don't worry in the start if you have trouble as Tip's ears 'learn' to bleed.

OK now getting to the weekly visits at the vet office.... ask the vet if they are free. If not, then say thx I'll be OK at home. Most people keep track of their BG test results on a google spreadsheet. You can set one up, put your numbers in it and then give a copy to your vet, but you certainly do NOT need to waste money on weekly visits! Nope!

The others here can help you out with what stores ask for rx to get syringes and stuff; in Canada, we don't need rx for syringes or insulins or other supplies.

Keep asking questions and people will keep giving you answers.
 
Yay! :D Hehe, hopefully! ^-^ I love it when I get to play with the cats and watch'em romp around. Especially when Tip and Christmas play together, like, gang-up on a toy mouse. XD

Alright. I'll go discuss everything you guys have taught me and come up with a plan and then discuss the bigger things(like insulin switch, best way to change Christmas' diet, and general bigger stuff that needs to be well planned out). Thankfully I have a good relationship with my vet and she's more than willing to be open to other ideas. :) When my previous vet retired, I was stuck with one who pretty much told me that everything I did was wrong and how she's right 100%. Just not how things should be.

Also, any way to help me get over my apparent issues with sticking Tippy with the needles? I know it has to be done, so I'm bearing with it, but I can't help but feel it might transfer to her some, because she's very impatient about it(though not acting stressed per say, just wants it over and done). Shoulda' seen this coming considering I have issues watching them get their shots and blood drawn.

@Jenn & Baxter:
Oh? Sams club? I was actually told that that would be the cheapest place for insulin in general around my area(though a little drive), so I might just be dealing with them to get everything. That'd be nice. I was quoted $10, but then again, I am a pretty frequent face there between my outdoor cat Frankie duking it out with strays(usually he sprains his leg, but recently got in to a pretty bad fight and needed antibiotic to deal with any infection that might crop up), and Tip recently getting so bad, I usually get a few discounts. ^.^;

And I'm so glad that everyone is so willing to help!

And....one more question and then I think I'll have exhausted all of them. I was also told on her blood test that she had slightly high calcium, but also that it could be related to diabetes, true? Or no? Because I was told the other option would be possible tumor, in which case, an ultrasound would be the next option to see.
 
Sayania said:
Q4: Is it really okay to reuse needles so long as I take great care to not let them get dirty and only use them 3-4 times? As that's what I was told by the vet tech while I was learning how to give Tippy her insulin.
Click to expand...

I know others have already answered this but I just had to say Eww :shock: I am a vet tech student and it is hard for me to even imagine what is going through someone's head when recommending to reuse needles. As soon as that needle goes through the skin, it is not clean. Just because you can't see the microbes doesn't mean they aren't there. And then, of course, there is much to say about the needles being both lubricated and sharp.

With time you will definitely get more comfortable with injections. It is important to project confidence so that your kitty doesn't pick up on your emotions. The needles are tiny and it is not hurting your kitty, but they are very good at pretending for their beans that they are being brutalized, so don't let Tip trick you, haha. Once you get a little practice you will be a pro in no time :mrgreen:

Best of luck treating your kitty!
 
Re sharing your Grandpa's meter - it may or may not be suitable. That depends on how much blood it needs to test. For a cat you really want a meter that needs 0.6ul or less - but don't buy a freestyle, it only requires 0.3 but it is not accurate.
 
I wanted to give an update on Tip. :)

She's started gaining weight little by little, so I guess that was her problem the whole time.

Also found out that the sam's club near me does not need prescriptions for syringes, just a membership and the family was planning on getting one anyways. However, my grandpa's meter is a freestyle, so it looks like I might as well get one while I'm there getting more syringes(down to 4, so it'll be very soon).

I've also got a list of questions for the vet, though I think I'll stick with the visits, but maybe less frequently, at least, until she's at an acceptable weight(7lbs 15oz is all skin and bones @_@ , but she's at 8lbs now), especially since they're only $10.

I'm also getting much better at giving her the shots! :D She's also becoming more patient with me. :P

I am sooooo thankful I found these forums.
 
This is great news to read your update.

I am glad you are getting the hang of the shots. When you start home testing it will get easier with time to.
How is the diet going? Remember to add some water to the canned food.
Please keep us updated.
Jenn & Baxter
cat_pet_icon
 
The diet is going alright. Her sister, Christmas, isn't taking well to it though. I've tried making the canned food look more appetizing(I've currently only got beef flavored, though next time I go to the store, I'll be getting different flavors for her) and is turning her nose up to it. ): She's the one that I've yet to completely ween off of dry food. But Tip is doing wonderfully on just the canned. No...I have not added water to the canned food. I didn't know you were supposed to. ^.^; I'll start doing that.

I hope so. Me too. Though she complained a bit this morning, all I could say was "Oh....I know it doesn't hurt. You've never complained in the past.", pet her, and then let her get going in her own time. She's also still getting weened off of the pred she was previously on. So hopefully that'll help. I did find out that my mom has an old meter that she isn't using. :) It's a....uh....shoot. It starts with a C. She even has some strips that I can use.

EDIT: Contour is the name of the meter.
 
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