Just got home from the Vet

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Vinny's Mom

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Hello all,
We found out this past Wednesday that Vinny has Diabetes. He is a 5 year old male. 14lbs. I noticed the excessive urination over Christmas weekend andnew something was wrong. Our Vet has put Vinny on 2 shots a day of Lantus at 2.5 units each. We have switched both cats ( Sal is Vinny's brother) to Fancy Feast. I have purcased the keytone/Gluecose urine strips. My Vet wants me to get a home Gluecose monitor which I am not opposed to but I wanted to research prices as they want me to but the Alpha Trak monitor. The vet quoted me $225 for the starter kit. I have seen some online for $170 and up. After spending so much this week I am trying to be as conseritive with is as I can be. But being new to buying Pet suplies online I am not sure what websites are safe to order from. Also does anyone know if buying insulin at Walmart is cheaper then most drugstores? I spent $145 on his insulin and I am looking for any savings I can find. Thanks for all your help. We really appreciate it. :-D
 
Re: Newly Diagnosed Monitor Question

Hello & welcome! You don't need to buy the Alpha Trak from your vet, or for that matter you don't have to get the Alpha Trak at all. It is expensive & the strips are expensive also. You can go to your local Wal Mart & get the Relion meter, I have the Confirm but I think there is another one that may be smaller. The Confirm is only about 9.00 & you can get 100 strips for about 36.00. I don't know about getting Lantus from Wal Mart but I guess you know you would need a prescription. I just started using Lantus also & I mail ordered mine from Canada. If you go over to the Lantus forum I think there is a sticky at the top that gives the info on ordering. I got mine from Global Drugs Direct. I think I have heard some people say Costco also has a pretty good price.
 
Re: Newly Diagnosed Monitor Question

Welcome!

The ReliOn confirm is what I use and is used by many of us. No need to get a pricey meter with proprietary supplies you can't get until the vet is open!

That may be too high of a dose of Lantus to start him on. Please read the stickies and consider starting with a dose of 1 unit - safer to start lower and build up. Once the insulin is in, you can't get it out!!!

Also, what are you feeding him? I'll bet the vet had some prescription diet to sell you at $2 a can. Guess what? You can feed over the counter canned food which is less expensive and in many cases, better nutrition. Pop over to Binkys Page and check out the info. Why canned? Cat Info will tell you that dry food is high carbohydrate, and that cats don't drink enough water to compensate for the inadequate water content. Plus, the higher moisture content in canned food helps keep the kidneys working well.
 
Re: Newly Diagnosed Monitor Question

Poopy and I welcome you to the best place you could have found for you and your kitty! cat_pet_icon

Pop on by your nearest discount store (like Wal-mart) and they have a variety to choose from for much less, or you can order from here for the newbie kit that includes a meter.

Testing strips can also be found at a discount on Ebay. I wasn't much of a fan of Ebay before but found a couple of good deals (for half the price of the cheapest I could find in town). Be sure to watch for the expiration date and that they are unopened.
 
Re: Newly Diagnosed Monitor Question

Good morning and welcome to FDMB.

As the others have said, you do not need the Alpha Trak or any other "pet" glucose meter. You can use any brand of human glucose meter. It also does not matter if it is a name brand meter such as Freestyle, One Touch, etc. or a store brand such as the Walmart Relion meters. They are all equally accurate.

I have had a total of 4 diabetic cats, two of which I adopted knowing they were diabetic. For all of them I have used the Relion meters. If you choose to use one of these brand meters, I recommend either the Relion Confirm or Micro over the Ultima. They are all good meters and I have used all of them. The Confirm and Micro meters use less blood and are easier for newbies and that is why I suggest either one of these meters.
 
Re: Newly Diagnosed Monitor Question

Wanted to say welcome welcome welcome

You have found the best place to be ~ right here!

I received the newbie meter when we started out and learned that buying the relion and strips at walmart was very cost effective. Purchased it after I was financially able - shocked after original dx.....

Walmart also has the lancets and the ketone sticks that you will probably want to purchase. They have their brand of neosporin w/ pain ointment as well.
I think purchasing all of this at once was under 70.00

I saw that you switched to fancey feast for your babies.... Do you know if it is low carb?

Folks will probably advise you on the amount of insulin if you have switched as that might be too much insulin now. I would purchase that meter and home test as soon as you can if you have switched to a low carb foods already.

Please let us know what you decided and how you and Vinny boy are doing! ;-)
 
Re: Newly Diagnosed Monitor Question

As far as food goes, even certain varieties of the Wal-Mart brand ("Special Kitty") are better for diabetic kitties than the pricey prescription food...look for the low-carb varieties of Special Kitty from Janet & Binky's list referenced above. If you can get ahold of the 13oz cans of those varieties you can save even more money.

I have been using the Relion Micro from WalMart and just found out that it is actually a "branded" version of the Arkray GlucoCard 01. The strips for the Arkray are exactly the same as the strips you buy for the Relion meter (in fact the Relion strips have "Arkray" printed on them). The Arkray brand of strips are less expensive than the Relion ones from WalMart. I just ordered 200 of them (plus a free meter, solution, lancing device, lancets) for $65 from American Diabetes Wholesale online...plus I found a $5.00 off ADW coupon at www.retailmenot.

Avery & Turtle
 
Re: Newly Diagnosed Monitor Question

I use the Alpha Trak, but I buy the Freedom/Freestyle strips on-line for around $24 for 50 strips.

I have tried a few other meters but they required too much blood for a sample. I havent treid the Relion yet, but I trust the ladies here when they say its a good one to buy. I would probably try that one if you can get it at Walmart.
 
Re: Newly Diagnosed Monitor Question

i use a freedom freestyle lite meter & strips and buy them online as well. however, i picked that brand because it takes a tiny blood dot to sample and because if i'm in a bind i can buy them locally. we don't have a walmart here.

the fancy feast is good - we use that. stick with the classics only for regular feeding. chicken feast, turkey & giblets, beef feast, chicken & liver feast - those are all fine. the Binky's list that BJM gave you the link for has them under the older varieties. buy 2-3 cans of something high carb (anything with gravy in the name) or make sure you have karo syrup in case vinny's numbers go too low.

as far as your dose, yes, unless there is more to the story than you've said here, that's higher than we would want to start him. he is newly diagnosed, right? not coming from another insulin? and he wasn't hospitalized with diabetic ketoacidosis?

most cats start at 1unit twice a day, aiming for 12 hours apart. Lantus is a cumulative insulin and generally we hold the dose for 5 days when starting to allow it to begin to work. with 2.5 units i would want to get testing right away so we can see what's going on with Vinny. there is a weight-based calculation that i will see if i can find - i suspect it would put him at about 1.5units for a dose, but am not sure.

if you could pick up a meter and some test strips (and agree with others, the Alpha Trak has The Most Expensive Strips of any meter, i believe) and try testing him, that is the safest next step.

for later, good online places for supplies include http://www.Hocks.com and http://www.AmericanDiabetesWholesale.com. if you go to ADW, you can save 4% by signing up with http://www.mrrebates.com first. Register at mrrebates and then there's a place on that site to click to go to ADW - it adds up! and yes, ebay is fine - just watch for those things theresa mentioned. i buy most everything local except the strips - you can get them at about 1/2 price online.

you also want a lancet device or lancets if you think you want to do it without a device. i use a device. while you're shopping, pick up some neosporin ointment with pain relief. that will make it easier for you and vinny both!

in the meantime though, personally, i'd be anxious to see what that 2.5u is doing and would go buy a meter and strips locally. walmart relion confirm is a good inexpensive meter. steer away from any meters that have "true" in the name - those have been less accurate when tested by consumer reports.

keep checking in with questions and information. just keep on adding it here.
 
Re: Can't get enough blood!

I followed the video and i got blood but it is not enough for the monitor. I did it 3 times. with blood each time but just not enough for a reading. I feel so bad to keep continuing today.I think I will try again tomorrow. What are your thoughts?

Thanks
 
Re: Newly Diagnosed Monitor Question

mmm, just saw your post. i'd give vinny a treat, wait a little bit and try again. how many hours has it been since his last shot?


here's what i'd written before seeing your last post.
ok, the recommended starting dose of Lantus for a cat of 14lbs (= 6.4kg) is 1.6 units per shot. that's assuming 14lbs isn't overweight for vinny.

from Lantus/Levemir Tight Regulation Protocol

Using a weight based formula for determining a starting dose of Lantus or Levemir:
the formula is 0.25 unit per kg of the cat's ideal weight
if kitty is underweight, the formula frequently used is 0.25 unit per kg of kitty's actual weight
if the cat was previously on another insulin, the starting dose should be increased or decreased by taking prior data into consideration
Online Calculator for Converting Pounds to Kilograms
Click to expand...

i'd encourage you to drop his dose back to 1.5units tonight. post any test results you get and we'll give you a hand. just want to keep vinny safe!
 
Re: Can't get enough blood!

Hi, I'm also new & my cat was also diagnosed Weds. It's been a rollercoaster just since I brought home home yesterday but feeling much better about it today. And I have to tell you this board & that monitor truly saved my cats life last night! I now know how important it is to test. Anyways I had the same trouble not getting enough blood with the monitor so I had gotten a bigger needle from the vet. I originally had 30 gauge but she gave me a 26 to get a sample with. It now works every time as long as I rub the ear first to warm it up. My poor guy got stuck every 30mins for a few hours last night but it's what it took to save him so please don't feel bad about doing it. His life could depend on it at some point. My guy is fine despite all the poking we've done & he didn't even notice the shot this morning (was a relief for me since I'm a needle phobe). Unless he's low I would always give him a low carb treat as that's really the goal to keep down the BG. I had to use the old regular treats last night to bring my cats BG back up but I will have to get a low carb kind to keep as well. I think you can look them up on a petstore website. I've been giving cooked turkey till I get the other. GL to you & ask what you need, everyone here helps a ton!

Oh & on the testing I found blood came much easier the closer I got to the edge of the ear & towards the upper half. Hope that helps!
 
Re: Can't get enough blood!

Hi Vinny's Mom. :smile:

Don't get too discouraged when you're unable to get enough blood to test. Sometimes it takes a while to get the hang of it. My poor Poopy became a pin cushion before I got the hang of it (and I'm knocking on wood now so I don't jinx my current success! LOL) Just keep plugging away, and asking questions as needed. The folks here are super!

As far as treats, I feed low carb (freeze dried chicken) to Poopy. So, after a testing session, whether successful or not, low carb snacks for Poopy! :-D
 
Re: Can't get enough blood!

the ears will grow more capillaries as they are poked - and it is kinda discouraging at the beginning. i remember. i poked punkin a lot with no blood coming.

a few things that help.

a warm ear bleeds MUCH better than a cold ear. you can put warm water in a pill bottle, make a rice sock by putting 1/4 cup or so of uncooked rice in a clean cotton sock (tie a knot) or an old hankie and nuke it for a few seconds. warm is good, burning hot is not. try it on you first. relax and give a few minutes to warming the ear before you poke. massaging helps move the blood and warm it up.

are you using a lancet device or freehand poking? you can give a couple of pokes next to each other.

it helps to smear a slick (very small amount) of vaseline over the fur where you plan to poke. that keeps the blood from soaking into the hair and skin and it will bead up so you can test it.

if you bought neosporin ointment with pain relief, that works too, although i use a lot at the end of the day and wipe it off before any pokes. too much vaseline or the neosporin ointment will goo up your strip and waste it.

one ear will often bleed better than the other.

you want something hard behind the ear so the ear doesn't just give way when you poke. the pill bottle of warm water is good. even so, at the beginning sometimes doing everything right you just can't get blood. if i was desperate, i poked the vein. it's not the best idea and it's more likely to bruise, but it gets you that drop.

wherever you poke, if it bleeds, make sure and staunch the bleeding by applying pressure so it doesn't bruise.

someone suggested to me to use a "three strikes" plan - 3 pokes, give a treat and take a break.

i give boiled/baked plain chicken. fix a couple of chicken breasts, chop them up into very small pieces, freeze most of it and keep 1/4 cup or so out for treats. treats are tiny - like 1/2" cubes. you want most of their food to be from cat food because it's nutritionally complete for them. at the moment we have left-over christmas turkey that punkin is getting.

what time zone are you in?

i'm thinking you could take a break on the testing and try again starting at 6:30pm tonight. lay all of your stuff out for testing and relax. there's no hurry on it. i'm saying that because it helped me not to feel pressure! after you get a blood test tonight, as long as it's over 200 you could go ahead and give the shot - drop it to 1.5units though. if it's less than 200, would you post here and let us help you decide what's next?
 
Re: Can't get enough blood!

HAve you tried using his paw instead of his ear?

Meow wont let me near his ears, but happily lets me test his paws.
 
Re: Can't get enough blood!

I've been at it a month or so now, and my first few days, it took a few pokes to get enough blood. Now I get it almost every time on the ear that bleeds best, and usually on the other one. It will come with time and practice. I like to use a cotton ball behind the poke, because I can then take it and use it to put pressure on the hole, and it's perfectly ear-sized. I could NOT get blood with the pen, but I free-hand with just the lancet and it is SO much easier to control that way! I use 30-gauge lancets, but others use fatter ones-whatever works is fine!

For treats, I use freeze-dried chicken or shrimp. Mikey goes crazy with them both.
 
Re: Can't get enough blood!

So we tried to get a blood glucose reading but couldn't get enough blood. I think the 30 g that came with the monitor are to small for us newbie. So I teseted his urine. There was no signs of ketones but his glucose came in high at 2000 or more mg/dl. What should I do?

Thanks
 
Re: Can't get enough blood!

Vinny's Mom said:
regular treats or are there diabetic treats?
Click to expand...

Here is a list of diabetic-friendly treats: http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=9172 Many can be found at the pet store. Many of the big name popular commerical treats such as Friskies and Whisker Lickins are no-nos for diabetic cats because of the high carb and often sugary ingredients they contain.


Vinny's Mom said:
So we tried to get a blood glucose reading but couldn't get enough blood. I think the 30 g that came with the monitor are to small for us newbie. So I teseted his urine. There was no signs of ketones but his glucose came in high at 2000 or more mg/dl. What should I do?
Click to expand...

Urine glucose will often read higher because glucose build up in the urine over time until it is expelled hours later. A blood glucose test tells you exactly what the level is right at that every moment. I wouldn't worry too much about a high urine glucose reading. Great that the urine tested negative for ketones, though :smile:

Yes, 30 gauge is too thin for many newbie to get enough blood with. Try a lower gauge lancet. 28 guage is a good size. Not all lancet devices have 28 gauge lancets. Here is a lancet comparision chart for several different brands: http://www.walgreens.com/marketing/library/centers/diabetes/lancets.jsp You can freehand a lancet without the device. Many people here do that.

Did you try all the depth settings on the lancet device (if using)? It helps to press the lancet device firmly against the ear while you push the button that sets the lancet off.

Are you warming the ear really really really well? A "rice sock" heated in the microwave until really toasty warm works great. Have you tried the othe ear? Some cats only have one ear that will give blood. You can also do a paw pad if your cat will let you.
 
Re: Can't get enough blood!

squeem's right about the warm ear - truly warm makes an enormous difference. when you get a bit of blood, don't hurry to test it. massage the area around the poke and see if you can get more to come up before you touch it to the test strip. if you have to, you can scrape the blood you get off onto your fingernail and test it from there.

and honestly, if i were you, i'd poke the vein. you can see it, you can't hardly miss it, and i am a little anxious about that dose combined with the fact that vinny's been on it for 9 shots now if you started wednesday night. as i said, lantus builds up and we would've started him at 1.5u.

i don't want to add pressure to you, i just have seen people come on here with their first test and have it show low numbers. not trying to scare you, just being real that cats on insulin can go too low. safety is always our first concern. vinny might be totally ok, but just like if you were treating a diabetic child, you don't know without a test to tell you.

if you can't get a test, that's just the way it goes. with lantus, the typical signs of lower blood sugar are really wanting to eat - more so than usual. or sometimes they get kinda spacey, mentally checked out. if vinny's hungry let him eat what he wants. as much as he wants. many cats will feed themselves if they feel like they are getting low. if he shows mental signs get karo syrup onto his gums immediately and head for a vet. any kind of weird behavior sign might be connected - if he starts yowling and doesn't usually.

lantus has a curve and most cats will get lowest around 5-7 hrs after their shot, some as early as 3 hours. so watch vinny and make sure you leave food out for him tonight. until you are getting tests and can know for certain what his BG is, it's far better for him to eat too much than not have it available. canned food will stay fine for 12 hours - you can add some water to it (i add about 50% water to a can) and that will help it not dry up.

squeem's also right about the urine glucose testing - it shows effects hours later. i don't know how to interpret that number.

don't get too discouraged by not getting blood yet. every poke contributes to more capillaries growing. sometimes punkin will shake his ear before i've tested and my face will get spattered to the point i look like a crime scene! think of it as investing.
 
Re: Can't get enough blood!

Hi! I'm new too. Hobbs was diagnosed a couple of weeks ago and I just bought a meter on Friday to test. I got the ReliOn Micro. Tiny amount of blood needed but sometimes even that's difficult to get. I'm hoping like everyone else says that this gets easier! :)
 
Re: Can't get enough blood!

WE are wondering about Mr. Vinny?
Any updated news?
 

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Re: Can't get enough blood!

We ended up feeding him and giving him a shot. That was at 7pm. We will be leaving out food tonight encase he is not feeling well.
 
Re: Can't get enough blood!

Oh you were also asking about cost. I'm not sure what insulin your cat is on, Hobbs is on Lantus. At Walgreens with the Rx Saver's club, they charged me $116. It was $136 without. I called Costco the other day and they said it was $124 if you are not a member (and you do not need to be a member to use their pharmacy) and $118 if you are a member. I haven't called Walmart for a price yet. Also, these prices are in Omaha, Nebraska, no idea if it varies by location within the states. You can just call and say you'd like a price on a prescription and ask if they have time to do it. (I learned this way back in the day when I was young, broke, and my insurance didn't cover my birth control pills! LOL) For me, I was going to transfer my personal drugs to Walgreens anyway so paying for the Rx Saver Club was worth it for me. Your mileage may vary.
 
Re: Can't get enough blood!

Well we lowered Vinny's dose to 2 units per shot. I know everyone thinks it high but Vinny is running around and playing like he did before getting sick. As a mother it almost makes me cry how happy I am to see him feeling better. We have an appointment to have is bloodwork done tomorrow as we are still having trouble getting enough blood from him. Thanks to everyone for all your suggestions and support over the weekend. I feel like I have really found a place with caring people who want everyone to do well
 
We went to the vet as we were having trouble getting blood for his glucose test. His results were 167 at 8 hours past his shot. We go on thursday for a 6/12 teat and then they said we will schedue a test ( I cant remember the name ) for three weeks later. He also gained a little over 1/2 pound.
 
It isn't that 2 units per se is high, it is that starting with 2 units can be fatal if it is too high for the cat.

It is much easier to gradually add insulin as tests indicate it is needed.

It is much more difficult to manage a cat going into hypoglycemia if you can't test to determine what to do.
 
I use a Relion Micro with no issues. I use 28 gauge lancets (free hand) that I buy at Target because they have caps that can go over the needle when you are done. I bought a sharps container at Walmart for a few bucks. Had a harder time with the syringes, since I couoldn't find any with 1/2 unit markings. Cedric was only on lantus for a month, but I agree your starting does is too high. My vet was expereienced with FD and started Cedric on 1 unit twice a day (see spreadsheet below). I give Cedric 4 smaller meals per day, aprox. 6 oz in total. I use an autofeeder (Cat Mate C20 which has an ice pack) for during the day when I am at work (work 7 days per week). He does great! He used to eat canned & dry, but once I took the dry away, his numbers started being normal. He eats mostly Wellness Turkey, Chicken, Chicken & Herring and Turkey & Salmon, plus Friskies Mixed Grill and Special Kitty Mixed Grill (or something to that effect). It took some work, and thankfully I was able to bring him into the office for a couple of days to do a curve. Thanks to the gang on this board and all the info on the main site, we were able to get into remission PDQ. My vet is still scratching his head, as they thought it would take up to a year. I think I caught it pretty quick though.

Good luck!
 
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