Hi, my name is A.J. My cat is named Pumpkin Pie.He is a neutered 14 yr.old going on 15 yrs this march.He was 20 lbs. He did go down to 15lbs at the time he was tested at the vet. The vet said that his sugar level was 462.YIKES!!! He did not have ketones,which I think is a good thing?? Still confused about all there is to know. The vet started him out on lantus 3 units 2 times a day.Question for ya,is that to high a dose?? I did immediately take him off of purnia indoor dry cat food. I'm feeding him bits of turkey or chicken mixed with 3 ounces of can cat food. He has been eating well. Since he has been on lantus he hasn't been drinking much water. I am hoping that it is because I add a few drop of water to his meal. The big problem is financial the vet bill is very high & they want us back on the 22nd for a curve plus I still need the blood montior and all that goes with that.I only have social security as income.I just try telling myself that's its normal to be overwhelmed and scared.I just pray that Pumpkin diabeties is from being on dry food diet all his life and that he can bouce back soon now that he is on high protein low carb meals.
Just Diagnosed
- Thread starter Joy.T
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Dyana
Member Since 2009
Hi A.J. and Pumpkin Pie (what a cute name) and Welcome 
I think 3 units is pretty high to start off with. We usually recommend starting out with 1 unit twice a day. We also recommend getting a human glucometer and home testing. When you home test your cat's blood sugar, you will know how he is doing, and whether his insulin needs to be adjusted. And also, you won't have to go to the vet for curves, as you will be doing the testing in a relaxed environment at home, rather than having the stress of the vet's office. The stress can raise BGs. There are lots of ways to save money, and we can help you with that. Changing A.J.'s food to all canned low carb will help a lot.
Read the stickys at the top of the page and ask as many questions as you need to. You will probably feel overwhelmed with all the info for awhile, as most people do, but keep posting and asking questions, and we will be here to help you and to support you and to encourage you. There is a wealth of knowledge and experience here and lots of people that want to help you and Pumpkin Pie.
I think 3 units is pretty high to start off with. We usually recommend starting out with 1 unit twice a day. We also recommend getting a human glucometer and home testing. When you home test your cat's blood sugar, you will know how he is doing, and whether his insulin needs to be adjusted. And also, you won't have to go to the vet for curves, as you will be doing the testing in a relaxed environment at home, rather than having the stress of the vet's office. The stress can raise BGs. There are lots of ways to save money, and we can help you with that. Changing A.J.'s food to all canned low carb will help a lot.
Read the stickys at the top of the page and ask as many questions as you need to. You will probably feel overwhelmed with all the info for awhile, as most people do, but keep posting and asking questions, and we will be here to help you and to support you and to encourage you. There is a wealth of knowledge and experience here and lots of people that want to help you and Pumpkin Pie.
Karrie and Maverick
Member Since 2010
Read the stickies - I had to read them like twenty times - not everything made sense for the first few weeks. I had to ask a lot of questions as we went along.
That is a really high dose, combined with the switch to Low Carb food. The switch to low carb food can have a huge impact lowering BG right off the bat so that makes that dose even higher relative to that.
With the help of this group, we are doing our own curves at home and our own testing at home. And when you do it at home you don't have the stress of vet skewing the blood glucose readings. They are often a lot higher at the vets office. We are saving a ton of money. Instead of paying the vet, we can use that money to buy test strips. If you are in the US... you can get ultra cheap Relion syringes - short needles and 1/2 markings from Walmart, Relion meters and cheap relion test strips that require tiny drops of blood.
It gets easier and soooo much less overwhelming after the first week. I promise!
The experts will give you advice on lowering the shot amount. And you can get a lot of advice on how to handle your vet, they just don't seem to understand diabetes and can be a bit snarky or defensive if you plan on doing home testing. Give this group a few weeks and you will see exactly what I mean - you will know more about diabetes than your vet.
There is a way of doing things in what they call Lantus Land You will get instructions on how to set up a google spreadsheet and link it to your signature and keep it updated and a profile, and how to do daily postings (your condo). Its a lot to take in but makes everything run so smoothly.
That is a really high dose, combined with the switch to Low Carb food. The switch to low carb food can have a huge impact lowering BG right off the bat so that makes that dose even higher relative to that.
With the help of this group, we are doing our own curves at home and our own testing at home. And when you do it at home you don't have the stress of vet skewing the blood glucose readings. They are often a lot higher at the vets office. We are saving a ton of money. Instead of paying the vet, we can use that money to buy test strips. If you are in the US... you can get ultra cheap Relion syringes - short needles and 1/2 markings from Walmart, Relion meters and cheap relion test strips that require tiny drops of blood.
It gets easier and soooo much less overwhelming after the first week. I promise!
The experts will give you advice on lowering the shot amount. And you can get a lot of advice on how to handle your vet, they just don't seem to understand diabetes and can be a bit snarky or defensive if you plan on doing home testing. Give this group a few weeks and you will see exactly what I mean - you will know more about diabetes than your vet.
There is a way of doing things in what they call Lantus Land
You will get instructions on how to set up a google spreadsheet and link it to your signature and keep it updated and a profile, and how to do daily postings (your condo). Its a lot to take in but makes everything run so smoothly.Hi Dyana, Thank you for your response. What a darling cat ( ur avatar). Yes Pumpkin Pie diet was the first thing I changed.He was and still is behaving like his normal self,I just notice the water bowl was always low & how much urine was in the box.I don't know why the vet put him on 6 units per day?? I thought perhaps because of his weight of 15 lbs? I have made a list of the supplies Pumpkin needs, its just that I spent $118.00 at walmart for one 10ml vival and one box of needles.Plus the vet bill isn't paid,which is $269.00 for the first visit and the vet wants us back on the 22nd for an all day drop off so they can do the curve. Pumpkin will be freaked out to the max. It is very overwhelming on a limited income. I have place quite a few of my stuff on various site to sell,but no buyers yet.....I just pray.
Janice & Johnny
Member Since 2010
Welcome A.J. and Pumpkin Pie (cute name)! Glad you found the board. Take a deep breath, you're in the best place to help your kitty. We all know how you're feeling. It's overwhelming at first and there's a learning curve, but we're all here to support you.
No ketones is exactly what you want to hear. When was Pumpkin Pie diagnosed? How long have you been doing the shots?
I would highly recommend that you start home testing as soon as possible. To know how much insulin he needs, you need to know what his bg numbers are. You can do curves yourself and they will be more accurate than the vet doing one. Numbers at the vet can be elevated due to anxiety, etc. We opted out of the curve the vet wanted to do. Home testing will save you a lot of money and allow you to monitor Pumpkin Pie a lot closer. There are some pretty affordable options for the meter and supplies. We use this one: http://www.relion.com/diabetes/blood-gl ... lion-micro - it's the Walmart brand meter. The meter is $9 and 50 testing strips are $20.
Three units is a higher starting point. Lantus likes consistency (shot every twelve hours) and when you start at a higher dose, you often find yourself skipping shots when his numbers are lower, etc. It's best to start low and go slow. One unit is the recommended starting point (the protocol is in one of the stickys at the top of the board; read through these...great info!) and then you see where Pumpkin Pie takes you. Johnny was diagnosed at 491 and our vet started him on two units. With the help of others here, home testing and following the protocol, it was clear that it was too high a dose. Other more experienced dosers will chime in I'm sure.
You've done great so far by removing the hard food. The wet food provides all the moisture they need. You should determine the carb content of the food you're feeding. Even wet food can have a high carb content (i.e, those labeled 'with gravy', etc). There is a chart called Janet and Binky's. I'll try and find the link for you. It's a breakdown of some different brands and the carb content. I think most people feed less than 10% carb. We've found Johnny is best at 2%. Every cat is different.
I'm sure I've missed some things, but hopefully others will be along to provide more detail. There are wonderful people on this board who have been helping people/kitties on this journey for years. At first, it's a bit of information overload, but you'll be surprised at how quickly you'll absorb things and it will become second nature. The best part is seeing your kitty feeling lots better!
No ketones is exactly what you want to hear. When was Pumpkin Pie diagnosed? How long have you been doing the shots?
I would highly recommend that you start home testing as soon as possible. To know how much insulin he needs, you need to know what his bg numbers are. You can do curves yourself and they will be more accurate than the vet doing one. Numbers at the vet can be elevated due to anxiety, etc. We opted out of the curve the vet wanted to do. Home testing will save you a lot of money and allow you to monitor Pumpkin Pie a lot closer. There are some pretty affordable options for the meter and supplies. We use this one: http://www.relion.com/diabetes/blood-gl ... lion-micro - it's the Walmart brand meter. The meter is $9 and 50 testing strips are $20.
Three units is a higher starting point. Lantus likes consistency (shot every twelve hours) and when you start at a higher dose, you often find yourself skipping shots when his numbers are lower, etc. It's best to start low and go slow. One unit is the recommended starting point (the protocol is in one of the stickys at the top of the board; read through these...great info!) and then you see where Pumpkin Pie takes you. Johnny was diagnosed at 491 and our vet started him on two units. With the help of others here, home testing and following the protocol, it was clear that it was too high a dose. Other more experienced dosers will chime in I'm sure.
You've done great so far by removing the hard food. The wet food provides all the moisture they need. You should determine the carb content of the food you're feeding. Even wet food can have a high carb content (i.e, those labeled 'with gravy', etc). There is a chart called Janet and Binky's. I'll try and find the link for you. It's a breakdown of some different brands and the carb content. I think most people feed less than 10% carb. We've found Johnny is best at 2%. Every cat is different.
I'm sure I've missed some things, but hopefully others will be along to provide more detail. There are wonderful people on this board who have been helping people/kitties on this journey for years. At first, it's a bit of information overload, but you'll be surprised at how quickly you'll absorb things and it will become second nature. The best part is seeing your kitty feeling lots better!
Welcome A.J.
Dyana and Karrie have provided you with good information. There is a formula for estimating the initial dose of Lantus. Is 15 lbs Pumpkin Pie's ideal weight? The formula is:
If you've not already introduced yourself on the Health Board, I'd encourage you to do so. Until you start home testing, we won't be able to offer you a great deal of input regarding dose. We are very numbers driven here. We can certainly offer you a lot of information -- they can over on Health as well.
You can also get a home testing kit. Here's the link for newbie kits. The least expensive meters and strips are the Relion brand at Walmart.
Dyana and Karrie have provided you with good information. There is a formula for estimating the initial dose of Lantus. Is 15 lbs Pumpkin Pie's ideal weight? The formula is:
initial dose = 0.25 x ideal weight in kilograms
If 15 lbs is close, your cat's starting dose would be 1.7u. If you've not already introduced yourself on the Health Board, I'd encourage you to do so. Until you start home testing, we won't be able to offer you a great deal of input regarding dose. We are very numbers driven here. We can certainly offer you a lot of information -- they can over on Health as well.
You can also get a home testing kit. Here's the link for newbie kits. The least expensive meters and strips are the Relion brand at Walmart.
Hi Karrie & Maverick,Thank You for your response. I spread sheet Hmm that would be great I've just been keeping a notebook.I really will get all pumpkin needs.Its just I thought it best to get the medicine and new food right away.So that blew any funds for this month and the vet wants payment soon too.Pumpkin seems to be lke his normal self. The excess drinking has stopped and he has been urinating less also. He does get so freaked out just going in his carry case,not to mention a car. The vets seems to think he was so good and cooperatived.YEAH RIGHT!!! He was scared stiffed
Hi Janice and Johnny. Thank You for your reply.Pumpkin was diagnosed on Tuesday 12-7.I started the injections on 12-8.Yes I see your point about the dose.I tought it was high myself than began to read up on dosing. Why the vet thought 3units twice a day I don't know. It been 4 days since i l've been doing the injections.I've been watching Pumpkin closely and he hasn't been showing any signs of hyper. He seems like his normal self. So I just keep watching. I understand how important the monitor is.It just a lack of funds.I would lower the dose,but without knowing where he is at (other than his drinking and urinating) I'm worried about hurting him.
Janice & Johnny
Member Since 2010
A.J. make sure you check out the link Sienne put in her post. The newbie kits are free!
AJ, once you start hometesting, you will probably be doing curves frequently. No need at all for you to go pay for the vet to do exactly what you're doing in the calm and comfort of your own home. They aren't doing anything different at the vet's than what you'd be doing. I learned that the hard way and wasted money because I was too scared to do it myself. Now it's easy not just for me, but for my cat too. There's a lot to learn here, so don't be worried if it's overwhelming at first. It gets better and easier.
Welcome to the site!
My first thought was whoa! dose too high! Most people generally start out with a dose of 1u BID and then go from there... either lower or higher. There's a good protocol that will help you know how and when to increase or decrease dose, but it's all based on your BG numbers.
Keeping track of your test numbers in the Google Docs spreadsheet makes it possible for others to help you along the way with decisions on dosing.
As for the expense of taking your cat to the vet and getting all stressed out, you AND the cat, and getting more broke, testing at home is way better, and way cheaper, for you and for the cat. The visit to the vet will cause stress that will end up giving much higher BG numbers and then the vet will tell you to give a dose that is too high. Best to test at home and adjust the dose using the protocol in the stickys at the top of the Lantus group page.
As for lowering the dose hurting him, it may be more harmful to give too much insulin because you can always give more insulin, but you can't take back too much.
Without knowing his BG numbers, it would be a good idea to pick up a container of Ketostix and test Pumpkin's for ketones. He may seem to be doing much better but his numbers could still be high and if he has ketones, you need to address that issue right away. Check at the pharmacy for the Ketostix; I don't think they are expensive but they are needed.
Any questions you have, please ask.
My first thought was whoa! dose too high! Most people generally start out with a dose of 1u BID and then go from there... either lower or higher. There's a good protocol that will help you know how and when to increase or decrease dose, but it's all based on your BG numbers.
Keeping track of your test numbers in the Google Docs spreadsheet makes it possible for others to help you along the way with decisions on dosing.
As for the expense of taking your cat to the vet and getting all stressed out, you AND the cat, and getting more broke, testing at home is way better, and way cheaper, for you and for the cat. The visit to the vet will cause stress that will end up giving much higher BG numbers and then the vet will tell you to give a dose that is too high. Best to test at home and adjust the dose using the protocol in the stickys at the top of the Lantus group page.
As for lowering the dose hurting him, it may be more harmful to give too much insulin because you can always give more insulin, but you can't take back too much.
Without knowing his BG numbers, it would be a good idea to pick up a container of Ketostix and test Pumpkin's for ketones. He may seem to be doing much better but his numbers could still be high and if he has ketones, you need to address that issue right away. Check at the pharmacy for the Ketostix; I don't think they are expensive but they are needed.
Any questions you have, please ask.
Perry and Sooty
Member Since 2010
I'd agree that 3.0u is too high for a starting dose. You could reduce it to 1 or 1.5 BID (BID = twice per day) this would be safer than staying at 3.0 when you don't know where his BG is going, esp. as yoou have already switched to better food.
Until you do have some BG data, please remember that too little insulin is (generally speaking, absent Ketones) a far safer option than too much insulin. Not that I'm suggesting Pumpkin Pie is, but cats can experience Hypo without showing it.
And Welcome to Lantus Land, you will be SO glad you found FDMB - you'll get ALL the support you need here (and more besides!)
Until you do have some BG data, please remember that too little insulin is (generally speaking, absent Ketones) a far safer option than too much insulin. Not that I'm suggesting Pumpkin Pie is, but cats can experience Hypo without showing it.
And Welcome to Lantus Land, you will be SO glad you found FDMB - you'll get ALL the support you need here (and more besides!)
Kathy&Powder
Member Since 2010
Welcome Joy and Pumpkin I/m so glad you found Lantus Land :smile: The people on this board are very helpful and won't steer you wrong. Ditto on the home testing. Do check the link Sienne gave you for a newbie kit. It will at least get you started. His not drinking as much is good it means his sugar isn't as high.
I also hope you will consider lowering your dose as suggested cause too much insulin is dangerous, Many kitties can get normal blood sugars just by switching to a low carb diet. I know you have nothing else to do and are not the least bit overwhelmed ;-) (I was in tears my first weekend cause all I had time to do was my cat) but here's a couple of links to help. http://www.tillydiabetes.net/en_6_protocol2.htm and for foods to get that are inexpensive but low carb http://www.felinediabetes.com/diabetic-cat-diets.htm it has info and the link to Binky's page. I have copied those pages and keep it in my car for when I am buying food. Good luck and post every day until you get your meter so we can see how things are going. Then we will look forward to hearing from you am and pm at least
I also hope you will consider lowering your dose as suggested cause too much insulin is dangerous, Many kitties can get normal blood sugars just by switching to a low carb diet. I know you have nothing else to do and are not the least bit overwhelmed ;-) (I was in tears my first weekend cause all I had time to do was my cat) but here's a couple of links to help. http://www.tillydiabetes.net/en_6_protocol2.htm and for foods to get that are inexpensive but low carb http://www.felinediabetes.com/diabetic-cat-diets.htm it has info and the link to Binky's page. I have copied those pages and keep it in my car for when I am buying food. Good luck and post every day until you get your meter so we can see how things are going. Then we will look forward to hearing from you am and pm at least
Perry and Sooty
Member Since 2010
Unless I missed it, did anyone post you a link on how to do your own blood testing at home? This is one quite good link: click here! and there are many others...
Don't be intimidated by this, Joy - it is a bit scary at first but it does NOT hurt your cat - honest! They get used to it far quicker than we do...! Try and associate it with a little treat (whether you get a successful test or not) and a time for lots of kind words and cuddles. Make it a positive experience in other words, not something to be feared. And if at first you don't succeed, don't worry - stop, relax, take a few dep breaths, leave it a few minutes and try again. Even the best of us sometimes need several pokes!
Anything troubling you - just ASK... OK? We have all been where you are and everyone here will UNDERSTAND.
Don't be intimidated by this, Joy - it is a bit scary at first but it does NOT hurt your cat - honest! They get used to it far quicker than we do...! Try and associate it with a little treat (whether you get a successful test or not) and a time for lots of kind words and cuddles. Make it a positive experience in other words, not something to be feared. And if at first you don't succeed, don't worry - stop, relax, take a few dep breaths, leave it a few minutes and try again. Even the best of us sometimes need several pokes!
Anything troubling you - just ASK... OK? We have all been where you are and everyone here will UNDERSTAND.
Ella & Rusty & Stu(GA)
Member Since 2010
Hi A.J. and welcome to you and Pumpkin Pie!
We have all been where you are now, and I just want to second what everyone has said. It all seems overwhelming at first, but it gets easier as you go along. And one of the best things is this support group. Please read (and re-read) the informational "Stickies" at the top of the Lantus Forum. You will learn which foods to feed, how to give tests, how to get good but inexpensive diabetic testing supplies. I use the Walmart "ReliOn Micro" meter: it costs $12.00 and the strips cost $20 for 50 strips. (Many meters seem to be inexpensive, but the test strips that they use are high in cost. The Walmart strips are just about the least expensive you can buy, and they work just fine.). I don't know what your vet would charge for doing a complete "curve" in his office, but I'm sure it's more than $32. (And if you do your own curves, or "mini" curves--a test every 3 hours--you will still have lots of strips left in your box of 50). (That said, I would suggest starting out with 2 boxes of strips: it's easy to mess up tests and use a lot of strips when first learning!)
We are looking forward to seeing you post here in Lantus Land after you get set up. Ask any questions you need. Someone will always be along to help you. And please start with a lower dose than your vet recommended. The proper (wet) food alone is already bringing down Pumpkin Pie's bg levels. It has been everyone's experience here that tests at the vets are often unreliable, and that most vets do not have much experience when it comes to managing Feline Diabetes. The collective experience on this FDMB is awesome!
Again, welcome!
Ella & Rusty
We have all been where you are now, and I just want to second what everyone has said. It all seems overwhelming at first, but it gets easier as you go along. And one of the best things is this support group. Please read (and re-read) the informational "Stickies" at the top of the Lantus Forum. You will learn which foods to feed, how to give tests, how to get good but inexpensive diabetic testing supplies. I use the Walmart "ReliOn Micro" meter: it costs $12.00 and the strips cost $20 for 50 strips. (Many meters seem to be inexpensive, but the test strips that they use are high in cost. The Walmart strips are just about the least expensive you can buy, and they work just fine.). I don't know what your vet would charge for doing a complete "curve" in his office, but I'm sure it's more than $32. (And if you do your own curves, or "mini" curves--a test every 3 hours--you will still have lots of strips left in your box of 50). (That said, I would suggest starting out with 2 boxes of strips: it's easy to mess up tests and use a lot of strips when first learning!)
We are looking forward to seeing you post here in Lantus Land after you get set up. Ask any questions you need. Someone will always be along to help you. And please start with a lower dose than your vet recommended. The proper (wet) food alone is already bringing down Pumpkin Pie's bg levels. It has been everyone's experience here that tests at the vets are often unreliable, and that most vets do not have much experience when it comes to managing Feline Diabetes. The collective experience on this FDMB is awesome!
Again, welcome!
Ella & Rusty
Thank You,everyone! Your insights and tips are greatly appreciated.Its been so hard for me and I'm not ashamed to say tears sessions have been on and off all weakend. I did lower the dose to 2units twice a day 5-10 mins after Pumpkin Pie finishes eating.It doesn't seem to cause any change.He has urinated 4 times today and it seems like a normal amount. Compared to 9 days ago when he urinated so much at each time it seemed like half the box was wet. 9 days ago he would drink his entire water bowl and ask for more. That when I knew something was wrong and 4 hours in the vets office they confirmed his blood sugar level was 462 and there was sugar in his urine but no ketones. The past few days (since Tuesday) he been urinating very close to normal and the water bowl isn't even half empty when I go to refresh it. But for me the good news happened this evening. I saw Pumpkin grooming his own belly again. YEAH!! He had stopped grooming a few weeks ago. I thought it was because of his age and that he was chubby 15lbs.A sign of hope for me. I am trying to raise funds to get the newbie meter kit. Its just the insulin and needles and can food blew any money reserves I had. Plus I still owe the vet bill. UGG.My next social security check doesn't come til jan 2011. So I have been really watching Pumpkin Pie like a hawk.I will get the meter and do the curve and spreadsheet,which I think is a great idea doing the spread sheet. I still need to do some more research on caned food ingredients.I plan to go to the library and print out the list. Til then I've been adding some additonal bits of turkey with the can food.
Karrie and Maverick
Member Since 2010
I think it only shows up in the sent box when a person opens your message, until then it stays in your outbox.
A
Anonymous
Joy I just realized you are person I just sent a kit to. Same state, same initial.
Barring weather and Christmas rush I suspect you'll get it before weeks end.
You'll have a reli-on with 50 strips and all the necessities you'll need to start testing.
I'm so glad to know who they're going to once I've sent them out!
You should do very well here.
Welcome aboard,
Lori and tomtom
Barring weather and Christmas rush I suspect you'll get it before weeks end.
You'll have a reli-on with 50 strips and all the necessities you'll need to start testing.
I'm so glad to know who they're going to once I've sent them out!
You should do very well here.
Welcome aboard,
Lori and tomtom
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