Josie 4/3 - 4/5

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Holly and Josie

Holly and Josie

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Not complaining, just unsure of what to do!

AMPS - 148 (waited and tested hourly). Finally, 3 hours later she was at 172. Gave .25 units. We were nervous about shooting into such a low number (particularly one that wasn't really rising much), so we tested often.

+1.5 - 238
+5 - 265
+6.5 - 200
+10.5 - 124

Wow, it actually looks like she might be responding to a reduced dose. Previously, reduced doses have not worked for her. If we gave her .4 or .5, she would have unshootable pre-shots. If we have her .2 or .3., she would appear to "run out" of insulin and have awful (400+) pre-shots. Well, it looks like this time a reduced dose may have worked. However... it still looks like she may have an unshootable pre-shot. Despite the small dose! Unless she makes a big jump in the next 1.5 hours, it seems like that might happen.

So the question is... if she gets up to 150+ should we give her .25? Would that be safe? Last night we did, BUT that was 3 hours after the insulin had worn off. Today it would be an hour, at most, because my husband has to leave for work. I'm a little worried that the insulin might hit her too soon.

Secondly, how do people feel about shooting on an "as needed basis"? Is that OK to do? We seem to be getting to the point where we just cannot give her insulin every 12 hours. I was told to reduce the dose, and at first I thought if only the shot wouldn't wear off that might work. But it still seems her numbers aren't really shootable. We kinda shot as needed this weekend and she was getting shots every 14-18 hours or so. It made me nervous, knowing she wasn't on insulin at all for hours at at time. I'm really not sure if that's OK. Believe me, I would rather shoot every 12 hours, but I'm not sure I have a choice!
 
Re: Josie 4/03

+11 - 104

We were going to feed and test in 1.5 hours, but I decided we should get one more test in. Just in case she shot up all of a sudden. Now, that that's only 20% difference, so she may not be dropping, but it doesn't look like she's rising, either.
 
Re: Josie 4/03

Are you using U-40 needles?
What about using U-100 needles & the converting chart. It would allow you to dose for example... .2, .3, .4 instead of .25 or .50 as they might be to much & making longer cycles. The smaller doses might be better & able to hold a more consistent 12/12. It also might prevent the skyrocket.

The smaller doses also would be better for more lower BG. It would give the pancreas that added little help to recover.

Her numbers are looking really good! :-D
 
Re: Josie 4/03

Jenn & Baxter said:
Are you using U-40 needles?
What about using U-100 needles & the converting chart. It would allow you to dose for example... .2, .3, .4 instead of .25 or .50 as they might be to much & making longer cycles. The smaller doses might be better & able to hold a more consistent 12/12. It also might prevent the skyrocket.

The smaller doses also would be better for more lower BG. It would give the pancreas that added little help to recover.

Her numbers are looking really good! :-D
Click to expand...

Yep! We used the U100's last night. So just a smidge over .5 on the U100's, would be about .25. Looks like we could have just gone with .2.
 
Re: Josie 4/3 - reduced dose, still unshootable #'s

Well, she definitely fell after normal nadir. I would actually get a test and feed then retest in an hour and see where she's at. You got a rise on that dose at points where she should have gone lower if there had been a curve, so I think where you are now is because the food wore off and Mr. P is in town. I don't think that small of a dose is going to hurt her.
 
Re: Josie 4/3 - reduced dose, still unshootable #'s

The feeding at 104 will be interesting, since her BG is in the normal range Mr P might kick in for you I hope. If you don't already, I would break her meals into 2-3 smaller meals while trying this, better not to dump a ton of food on her P at once...just give it a little and see if it can handle it. I feed many more small meals now OTJ than I did on insulin so as to keep the P working all day, but not working too hard.

Shooting as needed is fine, your cat does not need to have injected insulin in it's system if it is running in non-diabetic numbers during that time. If BG is low after the insulin has worn off it means the body is converting glucose into energy on it's own, so no need for the shot. Going OTJ means shooting as needed, seems like most skip shots and get off schedule in the last push toward remission. If you feed her and she holds her BG or drops, then she is creating insulin at this point and you will only need to inject as needed to correct her BG if her P tires out.

*BTW, insulin is going to be completely out of her system at +12 so there shouldn't be any worry about shooting a 150 +12 vs 150 +15

fingers crossed
 
Re: Josie 4/3 - reduced dose, still unshootable #'s

Catannc said:
Well, she definitely fell after normal nadir. I would actually get a test and feed then retest in an hour and see where she's at. You got a rise on that dose at points where she should have gone lower if there had been a curve, so I think where you are now is because the food wore off and Mr. P is in town. I don't think that small of a dose is going to hurt her.
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Yeah, she keeps dropping after what you would think would be the normal nadir. That happens a lot. I used to be able to say that +6 was her lowest point, but not now. Sometimes her lowest point is +11! I'm guessing that's Mr. P? Actually, it seems like Mr. P does more for her in terms of dropping than the insulin sometimes. That's what Carl was saying he thinks is happening on one of my posts a few days ago, and I think he's right.
 
Re: Josie 4/3 - reduced dose, still unshootable #'s

Yes, I don't think today is as much from the insulin shot as it is from Mr. P. You didn't get the onset drop you would expect on Prozinc, she stayed higher for the first few hours than she was PS then gradually came down. For that reason I don't find myself too concerned about the very small doses of insulin, I think most times it's more of the P working than your shots. Again about the food, when this happens and you want to see how Mr. P is playing try about 1 tbsp of her normal food and test an hour later.
 
Re: Josie 4/3 - reduced dose, still unshootable #'s

Catannc said:
The feeding at 104 will be interesting, since her BG is in the normal range Mr P might kick in for you I hope. If you don't already, I would break her meals into 2-3 smaller meals while trying this, better not to dump a ton of food on her P at once...just give it a little and see if it can handle it. I feed many more small meals now OTJ than I did on insulin so as to keep the P working all day, but not working too hard.

Shooting as needed is fine, your cat does not need to have injected insulin in it's system if it is running in non-diabetic numbers during that time. If BG is low after the insulin has worn off it means the body is converting glucose into energy on it's own, so no need for the shot. Going OTJ means shooting as needed, seems like most skip shots and get off schedule in the last push toward remission. If you feed her and she holds her BG or drops, then she is creating insulin at this point and you will only need to inject as needed to correct her BG if her P tires out.

*BTW, insulin is going to be completely out of her system at +12 so there shouldn't be any worry about shooting a 150 +12 vs 150 +15

fingers crossed
Click to expand...

This is really helpful info!

I have started feeding her slightly smaller meals, but I think I need to go even smaller. I had my husband feed her about 2/3 of a meal at 104. I probably should have just gone with 1/3. I think I will start feeding smaller meals from now on. How many meals per day do you feed Kitten?

Glad to know that other people skip shots, too. I have read a lot of spreadsheets and it seemed like the doses got smaller and smaller but I was thinking most people stuck with the 12/12 schedule. I couldn't figure out what I was doing wrong!

How long did you generally wait to test after your kitty ate? I had heard you should wait 1.5-2 hours because you don't want to factor in the food spike, but maybe that's too long?
 
Re: Josie 4/3 - reduced dose, still unshootable #'s

She now gets 3.5 oz daily. DH feeds .5 oz at 6:30am, I feed her .5oz around 8:30am and then leave 1 oz at 10am as I am leaving for work. She does not finish this meal all at once, only eats about half so she has another meal at some point when I'm gone. When one of us gets home, typically between 4:30 and 6:30 she gets 1 oz and again only eats about half and gets another meal out of it. Then around 10 pm she gets her final .5oz.


The 12/12 is the optimal schedule for most cats who NEED insulin all the time, but if kitty doesn't always need it you go to shooting as needed. Because we all have lives, it means sometimes you can't shoot when it's convenient to you or sometimes you may not be home when she finally becomes shootable...but that's okay, you hit them when you can. If you end up getting another cycle where you go NS it would be interesting to note how much and when you fed her and keep testing so that you know what her BG does with a set feeding on NS. Then you could say, "well she went up 80 points at +2 then came back down to around PS at +6.5 and continued to drop". You could then compare it to a cycle on a low dose of insulin, like today and tease out how much you think the insulin actually contributed to that cycle. My guess is you'd find it was really similar to a NS cycle (today) and that the insulin didn't do much.

Our NS and fed cycles looked like this: (AMBG is used instead of AMPS if you are going NS) You can test at +1 from food.

AMBG +14 161 fed, +15 113, +16 57
AMBG +12.25 135 fed, +13 123, +14 97, +15 78
 
Re: Josie 4/3 - reduced dose, still unshootable #'s

Oh, and NS you are looking for the food spike because that is what you DON'T want to see. If at +1 your numbers are holding within variance or down it means Mr. P is there, if at +1 you get a big food spike then he is not helping out. You only see a food spike in diabetics because onset of insulin has not yet occured , so the cat has no way to convert glucose, and the food is being converted to glucose and staying at that point. In a cat with some pancreatic function NS that food would be converted into glucose and then the P would see that and release insulin to bring BG down, so you'd want to see no food spike or a drop after feeding. Make sense?
 
Re: Josie 4/3 - reduced dose, still unshootable #'s

Catannc said:
She now gets 3.5 oz daily. DH feeds .5 oz at 6:30am, I feed her .5oz around 8:30am and then leave 1 oz at 10am as I am leaving for work. She does not finish this meal all at once, only eats about half so she has another meal at some point when I'm gone. When one of us gets home, typically between 4:30 and 6:30 she gets 1 oz and again only eats about half and gets another meal out of it. Then around 10 pm she gets her final .5oz.


The 12/12 is the optimal schedule for most cats who NEED insulin all the time, but if kitty doesn't always need it you go to shooting as needed. Because we all have lives, it means sometimes you can't shoot when it's convenient to you or sometimes you may not be home when she finally becomes shootable...but that's okay, you hit them when you can. If you end up getting another cycle where you go NS it would be interesting to note how much and when you fed her and keep testing so that you know what her BG does with a set feeding on NS. Then you could say, "well she went up 80 points at +2 then came back down to around PS at +6.5 and continued to drop". You could then compare it to a cycle on a low dose of insulin, like today and tease out how much you think the insulin actually contributed to that cycle. My guess is you'd find it was really similar to a NS cycle (today) and that the insulin didn't do much.

Our NS and fed cycles looked like this: (AMBG is used instead of AMPS if you are going NS) You can test at +1 from food.

AMBG +14 161 fed, +15 113, +16 57
AMBG +12.25 135 fed, +13 123, +14 97, +15 78
Click to expand...

Kitten eats right about the same amount that Josie eats. I think I will start a feeding schedule similar to yours. I think I am feeding too much at once, which is why you see the spike up from +2- +5. I have started feeding slightly smaller meals and I think that has evened things out, but she still eats the majority of her food right before her shot. That's probably not a great idea when they are on so little insulin.

I have never gone a whole cycle without a shot. 6 hours is the most. Usually, she is high enough by then that she definitely needs a shot. On Saturday, she went 6 hours without insulin and she was at 300. It's these sort of readings that make me doubt that she could be on her way to remission, but then again, I fed a big meal at about +4, so maybe the big meal was just too much for Mr. P to handle.
 
Re: Josie 4/3 - reduced dose, still unshootable #'s

Catannc said:
Oh, and NS you are looking for the food spike because that is what you DON'T want to see. If at +1 your numbers are holding within variance or down it means Mr. P is there, if at +1 you get a big food spike then he is not helping out. You only see a food spike in diabetics because onset of insulin has not yet occured , so the cat has no way to convert glucose, and the food is being converted to glucose and staying at that point. In a cat with some pancreatic function NS that food would be converted into glucose and then the P would see that and release insulin to bring BG down, so you'd want to see no food spike or a drop after feeding. Make sense?
Click to expand...

That does make sense! I can see why you could test earlier with cats who are getting really low doses. You aren't really looking for the actual number (because you are most likely going to shoot a the lowest dose anyway) but you are just looking for movement.
 
Re: Josie 4/3 - reduced dose, still unshootable #'s

So about 1.5 hours after feeding, Josie is at 109. I would consider that holding!
 
Re: Josie 4/3 - reduced dose, still unshootable #'s

The longer cycles on small doses are a good sign, Mr. P may still have some healing to do but hopefully the cycles will continue to lengthen over the next couple of weeks. If you are still running too low to shoot at a +14 test in the future, I would try feeding and see what happens. It seems that without giving food BG tends to continue to rise slowly in these borderline cats cause Mr. P doesn't quite have things figured out. The food seems to make him go "oh yeah, need to make more insulin!". If it doesn't work, then you can still shoot a small dose like you have been, and if it does work you know you're on your way to a crazy couple of weeks.
 
Re: Josie 4/3 - reduced dose, still unshootable #'s

Well hell yeah, that is holding! Just saying about that, you girls are getting ready for a big ride! And that was with 2/3 of her feeding, so that's major! Let's see a drop in an hour!

*you need to edit your title, this deserves a "MR. P IS HERE!!!!!!"
 
Re: Josie 4/3 - reduced dose, still unshootable #'s

Catannc said:
The longer cycles on small doses are a good sign, Mr. P may still have some healing to do but hopefully the cycles will continue to lengthen over the next couple of weeks. If you are still running too low to shoot at a +14 test in the future, I would try feeding and see what happens. It seems that without giving food BG tends to continue to rise slowly in these borderline cats cause Mr. P doesn't quite have things figured out. The food seems to make him go "oh yeah, need to make more insulin!". If it doesn't work, then you can still shoot a small dose like you have been, and if it does work you know you're on your way to a crazy couple of weeks.
Click to expand...

Interesting, OK, we are actually right at +14. You think we should feed her a small amount now?
 
Re: Josie 4/3 - reduced dose, still unshootable #'s

No, I would wait and get another test at least, thinking give it to her 5 hours after her 104 test would be good and go to 1/3 feeding next time. Was just speaking for a "next time" scenario when you are waiting to shoot her, and she's not getting a shot for a few! My guess is you're gonna get close to amps before she might need a shot tonight....if then.
 
Re: Josie 4/3 - reduced dose, still unshootable #'s

Catannc said:
Well hell yeah, that is holding! Just saying about that, you girls are getting ready for a big ride! And that was with 2/3 of her feeding, so that's major! Let's see a drop in an hour!

*you need to edit your title, this deserves a "MR. P IS HERE!!!!!!"
Click to expand...

Oh, I hope so!

Ha, I'm too superstitious to change my title!
 
Re: Josie 4/3 - reduced dose, still unshootable #'s

Catannc said:
No, I would wait and get another test at least, thinking give it to her 5 hours after her 104 test would be good and go to 1/3 feeding next time. Was just speaking for a "next time" scenario when you are waiting to shoot her, and she's not getting a shot for a few! My guess is you're gonna get close to amps before she might need a shot tonight....if then.
Click to expand...

That's kind of what I was thinking initially. After you told me about the smaller meals my thought was (and what I told my husband) was that let's let this food clear her system first before we feed more. So I was thinking 4-5 hours after her last meal.

That would be completely amazing if she skipped an entire cycle or close. That's never happened.

Do you think I should shoot right at 150? (If I manage to catch it there.) 170 is the lowest we've ever shot. However, on these small doses she doesn't seem to go too low, that I know of. She goes long, but 104 is the lowest she was all day as far as I know.
 
Re: Josie 4/3 - reduced dose, still unshootable #'s

If you get a 150 I think you are completely safe to shoot again, you do have the option of repeating the food test and seeing if Mr. P kicks back in instead. If she doesn't drop again then you can still shoot that dose since you know she was 150 before the food. If she is higher at some point, say 200 without a feeding then I would just shoot her without doing the food test. Food should be clear in 4 hours, so yes 4-5 hours would be perfect to feed again.

Remember, non-diabetic cats can run very low BG. I have caught Kitten as low as 31 after being fed, she tends to be in the 60's while fasting and drops with the food. Also, without insulin in the system there is no BG that is too low, she can not hypo without having a shot, so very very low numbers are not a concern right now. No Karo, no high carb food, just her normal food and you can leave the house or sleep without worry. If you do end up having to give a shot and it's a small one it gets a little tricky because you do have insulin on board. At the same point, you know she wasn't bouncing today and that the insulin didn't really do anything for her as she was still above her PS at +6.5. For that reason I say that even if she in the future drops low on that same dose that you are looking at Mr. P having done that and if she is acting normal to just support low numbers with her regular food and monitor her carefully, but not freak out and dump Karo into her.

*Can you update or republish your ss? Last data I see is 3/28
 
Re: Josie 4/3 - reduced dose, still unshootable #'s

Holly and Josie said:
Catannc said:
Oh, and NS you are looking for the food spike because that is what you DON'T want to see. If at +1 your numbers are holding within variance or down it means Mr. P is there, if at +1 you get a big food spike then he is not helping out. You only see a food spike in diabetics because onset of insulin has not yet occured , so the cat has no way to convert glucose, and the food is being converted to glucose and staying at that point. In a cat with some pancreatic function NS that food would be converted into glucose and then the P would see that and release insulin to bring BG down, so you'd want to see no food spike or a drop after feeding. Make sense?
Click to expand...

That does make sense! I can see why you could test earlier with cats who are getting really low doses. You aren't really looking for the actual number (because you are most likely going to shoot a the lowest dose anyway) but you are just looking for movement.
Click to expand...

Well, kind of...what you are speaking of is if she rose after feeding and then you had to give a shot. Then yes, you know she is rising and you are shooting based on the test you did before food. What I'm getting at is what is happening now. You fed her, she was 104 and likely not going to be shootable in the timeframe your schedule allowed for tonight, so that actually was the best thing to do. Now 1.5 hours after that meal she is 109 and you know you will not be shooting her. What I'm saying is that a test 1 hr post food will let you know if you are even going to shoot her, and you're hoping that you won't....you're hoping that you're headed for a lot more NS cycles. So testing earlier is not really because she's a low dose cat, it's because you want to catch the time period where there should be a food spike if it were to occur, confirm that there was no food spike, and confirm that you have some P function and therefore no need to shoot. We're both talking about the same thing, but for different purposes
 
Re: Josie 4/3 - reduced dose, still unshootable #'s

Catannc said:
If you get a 150 I think you are completely safe to shoot again, you do have the option of repeating the food test and seeing if Mr. P kicks back in instead. If she doesn't drop again then you can still shoot that dose since you know she was 150 before the food. If she is higher at some point, say 200 without a feeding then I would just shoot her without doing the food test. Food should be clear in 4 hours, so yes 4-5 hours would be perfect to feed again.

Remember, non-diabetic cats can run very low BG. I have caught Kitten as low as 31 after being fed, she tends to be in the 60's while fasting and drops with the food. Also, without insulin in the system there is no BG that is too low, she can not hypo without having a shot, so very very low numbers are not a concern right now. No Karo, no high carb food, just her normal food and you can leave the house or sleep without worry. If you do end up having to give a shot and it's a small one it gets a little tricky because you do have insulin on board. At the same point, you know she wasn't bouncing today and that the insulin didn't really do anything for her as she was still above her PS at +6.5. For that reason I say that even if she in the future drops low on that same dose that you are looking at Mr. P having done that and if she is acting normal to just support low numbers with her regular food and monitor her carefully, but not freak out and dump Karo into her.

*Can you update or republish your ss? Last data I see is 3/28
Click to expand...

I think I will try feeding first if I catch her at 150. It may not work, but it's worth trying!

Oh yes, I definitely know they can run low. I'm might be shocked to see a 31 not on insulin, but I wouldn't give Karo or anything crazy like that. It's been awhile since I've used Karo to treat low numbers. Lately, when it seems she's dropping too fast I have just given medium carb food which seems to work out well. And on Saturday she was running in 60's from +7 - +11 and I just supported that with low carb food. Since she was stable and not dropping, I wasn't worried. (Although I did test quite a bit!)
 
Re: Josie 4/3 - reduced dose, still unshootable #'s

Catannc said:
Holly and Josie said:
Catannc said:
Oh, and NS you are looking for the food spike because that is what you DON'T want to see. If at +1 your numbers are holding within variance or down it means Mr. P is there, if at +1 you get a big food spike then he is not helping out. You only see a food spike in diabetics because onset of insulin has not yet occured , so the cat has no way to convert glucose, and the food is being converted to glucose and staying at that point. In a cat with some pancreatic function NS that food would be converted into glucose and then the P would see that and release insulin to bring BG down, so you'd want to see no food spike or a drop after feeding. Make sense?
Click to expand...

That does make sense! I can see why you could test earlier with cats who are getting really low doses. You aren't really looking for the actual number (because you are most likely going to shoot a the lowest dose anyway) but you are just looking for movement.
Click to expand...

Well, kind of...what you are speaking of is if she rose after feeding and then you had to give a shot. Then yes, you know she is rising and you are shooting based on the test you did before food. What I'm getting at is what is happening now. You fed her, she was 104 and likely not going to be shootable in the timeframe your schedule allowed for tonight, so that actually was the best thing to do. Now 1.5 hours after that meal she is 109 and you know you will not be shooting her. What I'm saying is that a test 1 hr post food will let you know if you are even going to shoot her, and you're hoping that you won't....you're hoping that you're headed for a lot more NS cycles. So testing earlier is not really because she's a low dose cat, it's because you want to catch the time period where there should be a food spike if it were to occur, confirm that there was no food spike, and confirm that you have some P function and therefore no need to shoot. We're both talking about the same thing, but for different purposes
Click to expand...

I see what you're saying!
 
Re: Josie 4/3 - reduced dose, still unshootable #'s

Any more numbers? Hope she pulled it off!
 
Re: Josie 4/3 - reduced dose, still unshootable #'s

She's at +19 and 144. Since 144 is almost 150, I'd consider shooting, however, 4 hours ago she was at 142 and then dropped back down to 114 two hours later. So I am going to need proof that she really is going up before we give her another shot. Plus, we gave her a bit of food (not much, only half an ounce and she left some on the plate) and she only went from 136 to 144. So that's basically holding, I think.

I am pretty amazed by this, though. The longest she's ever gone without a shot is 6 hours and at that point she has always been at least 300. I sure hope I am able to catch her before she goes up to quickly. I am testing quite a bit, so hopefully I will.
 
Re: Josie 4/3 - reduced dose, still unshootable #'s

Once she gets high enough to shoot I would up the dose to .35 or at least .3 if you're not comfortable with that since the .25 didn't drop her or hold her this am. She rose with food on .25 and didn't come down until after typical nadir once the food had cleared, so that wasn't enough insulin. If you can get her green you probably will be seeing more P action and be one step closer. Mr P seems pretty good at holding right now, he just can't get much of a drop on his own so it's gonna take a push....
 
Re: Josie 4/3 - hangin' out with Mr. P

Haha, I'm sure I am going to jinx myself and Josie, but I went ahead and changed the title! As much as I want to believe this will be a regular thing, who knows if that's true or not so may as well celebrate it while it's here! Plus, the unshootable pre-shot title is sort of irrelevant now since it's obviously Mr. P working, not the insulin.
 
Re: Josie 4/3 - reduced dose, still unshootable #'s

Catannc said:
Try some more food and see what happens. If you do shoot I would up the dose to .35 since the .25 didn't drop her or hold her this am. She rose with food on .25 and didn't come down until after typical nadir once the food had cleared, so that wasn't enough insulin. If you can get her green you probably will be seeing more P action and be one step closer. Looking good for you though!
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I fed her a little less than 2 hours ago, so you think it's OK to feed again? I won't be overtaxing Mr. P? And then test in an hour?
 
Re: Josie 4/3 - hangin' out with Mr. P

You've got some great numbers goin on - hope to see them continue. What a great ride!
 
Re: Josie 4/3 - reduced dose, still unshootable #'s

Catannc said:
Once she gets high enough to shoot I would up the dose to .35 or at least .3 if you're not comfortable with that since the .25 didn't drop her or hold her this am. She rose with food on .25 and didn't come down until after typical nadir once the food had cleared, so that wasn't enough insulin. If you can get her green you probably will be seeing more P action and be one step closer. Mr P seems pretty good at holding right now, he just can't get much of a drop on his own so it's gonna take a push....
Click to expand...

Oh, and also, you think .35 would be pretty safe even if she's only at 150? It seems that it would be, since you're right, she rose for the first half of the cycle, but well, I'm still a bit of a scaredy cat about shooting into low numbers.
 
Re: Josie 4/3 - hangin' out with Mr. P

Celebrate everything you can, because you never know!

Can we get today onto your ss with the feedings marked? So much easier to read what happened there, sounds like she's been fed again and only jumped 8 points and test was how long after food?
 
Re: Josie 4/3 - reduced dose, still unshootable #'s

Catannc said:
Once she gets high enough to shoot I would up the dose to .35 or at least .3 if you're not comfortable with that since the .25 didn't drop her or hold her this am. She rose with food on .25 and didn't come down until after typical nadir once the food had cleared, so that wasn't enough insulin. If you can get her green you probably will be seeing more P action and be one step closer. Mr P seems pretty good at holding right now, he just can't get much of a drop on his own so it's gonna take a push....
Click to expand...

Oh, and also, you think .35 would be pretty safe even if she's only at 150? It seems that it would be, since you're right, she rose for the first half of the cycle, but well, I'm still a bit of a scaredy cat about shooting into low numbers.
 
Re: Josie 4/3 - hangin' out with Mr. P

If we have a rising number then yes, .25 did nothing today, and I believe we had been talking about nothing below .4 really doing much for you lately. You were thinking .4 was too much because she ran too long on it, but I think you can safely call those long cycles with late drops Mr. P after today's activity. I think if she doesn't drop further tonight then you won't be able to confirm a true rising number until 175 and i feel that it will be fine especially at that number. I know many err on the side of caution, but sometimes you just have to go for it, watch and test, because you never know how often you will be in this position. I also do not think this is a truly aggressive dose.

You feed as you think necessary, I just missed that you had fed since earlier.
 
Re: Josie 4/3 - hangin' out with Mr. P

Catannc said:
Celebrate everything you can, because you never know!

Can we get today onto your ss with the feedings marked? So much easier to read what happened there, sounds like she's been fed again and only jumped 8 points and test was how long after food?
Click to expand...

Crap, my husband needs to use the laptop so I have to leave for a bit.

But yes. She was at 136, fed half an ounce, and then tested about an hour and fifteen minutes later and she was at 144.

Be back as soon as I can!
 
Re: Josie 4/3 - hangin' out with Mr. P

Try to keep Mr.P as long as you can. He is one tricky little guy. He is sly & will sneak in & out of your house. Make your house plush, cook some food for him or something. Do anything to keep him there!

Great numbers for that beautiful orange cat! Her face is so cute! ;-)
 
Re: Josie 4/3 - hangin' out with Mr. P

Jenn & Baxter said:
Try to keep Mr.P as long as you can. He is one tricky little guy. He is sly & will sneak in & out of your house. Make your house plush, cook some food for him or something. Do anything to keep him there!

Great numbers for that beautiful orange cat! Her face is so cute! ;-)
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Thank you! Yes, he is VERY sneaky. He's in one minute and out the next! Josie is very plush, so hopefully he will be comfortable! LOL!

Thanks for the compliments on her, we think she is adorable!
 
Re: Josie 4/3 - hangin' out with Mr. P

And..... gone! Apparently Josie wasn't comfy enough. 179 at +20. Gave around .3 or .35. (Kinda hard to tell.)
 
Re: Josie 4/3 - no longer hangin' out with Mr. P - 179 at +2

That's going to happen, you figure the insulin never really hit her today, so she ran 20 hours on her own and was below 150 for probably 8 hours or so. The P is still healing and figuring out what to do, so it's gonna poop out after a bit but GREAT job at catching that rise early. If the dose ends up not being enough next time you can go a bit more toward .4 but here's hoping you get a low amps!
 
Re: Josie 4/3 - no longer hangin' out with Mr. P - 179 at +2

Catannc said:
That's going to happen, you figure the insulin never really hit her today, so she ran 20 hours on her own and was below 150 for probably 8 hours or so. The P is still healing and figuring out what to do, so it's gonna poop out after a bit but GREAT job at catching that rise early. If the dose ends up not being enough next time you can go a bit more toward .4 but here's hoping you get a low amps!
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Oh, I knew it wouldn't last. I was hoping, but it just didn't seem likely at this point. But yeah, she did go at least 8 hours under 150. And almost all of that was after the insulin had worn off (+11-+19). So that's definitely something to be excited about!
 
Re: Josie 4/3

Catannc said:
How were the AMPS?
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I was just about to start a new post on this. NOT good. As you know last night at +20, She was at 179 we gave around .3/.35. Well, I tested at +2 and she was at 307! And it basically continued to rise all night. AMPS was 377.

I am frustrated, but I guess her pancreas was just tired? And when her pancreas isn't working, that dose is just not enough. I feel bad that she basically spent an entire cycle in the 300's, but I don't know what I could have done differently.

In hindsight, I wish I had just waited for it to rise further and shot a full dose. But since a reduced dose worked the night before (and gave her the great Mr. P action) I thought it might work again. Guess not.

Maybe I fed too much? I fed about half an ounce when we gave the shot and half an ounce an hour later. I think I am in the habit of feeding WITH the shot and I think I need to remember that with these tiny doses I probably shouldn't do that.

It's just confusing/frustrating when I see signs that she is improving, that her pancreas works, but then she spends a cycle in high numbers.
 
Re: Josie 4/3

Well, it was a good try. I wouldn't think it was a bounce but you never know.useful information for next time, buy I think you're right and that most of your cycles you're getting help from Mr P and of he doesn't help you pancake cause the dose isn't high enough on it's own.
 
Re: Josie 4/3

Catannc said:
Well, it was a good try. I wouldn't think it was a bounce but you never know.useful information for next time, buy I think you're right and that most of your cycles you're getting help from Mr P and of he doesn't help you pancake cause the dose isn't high enough on it's own.
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I'm wondering if I should increase the dose. I hate feeling like I am underdosing her. And I hate seeing the 300's. But it's scary because if Mr. P does decide to kick in then she can very easily get too low. I'm just not sure what to do. I feel like she has really good cycles and really bad cycles with very little in between.
 
Re: Josie 4/3

I'm wondering about shooting a bit aggressively since you know the cycles you see are augmented by p action? My thinking if that you get a cat low enough and the p kicks in and keeps them lower and longer, but your lowest cycles are still blues. Nadir is always late and p influenced,I think that if you get lower with insulin and the p kicks on you are still not likely to hypo a why would the p release enough insulin to hurt the cat. Hindsight now, but I think you could have given a half unit last night and if you get another cycle that runs like yesterdays and have to shoot the same situation again I would try that and monitor.
 
Re: Josie 4/3 & 4/4

Sorry about typos, I am on my phone.

I would like to look at your last week of cycles on your ss whenever you can update it, I think we can do some work on your doses and get this moving, especially since you seem to be able to adjust schedule to shoot a needed
 
Re: Josie 4/3

Catannc said:
I'm wondering about shooting a bit aggressively since you know the cycles you see are augmented by p action? My thinking if that you get a cat low enough and the p kicks in and keeps them lower and longer, but your lowest cycles are still blues. Nadir is always late and p influenced,I think that if you get lower with insulin and the p kicks on you are still not likely to hypo a why would the p release enough insulin to hurt the cat. Hindsight now, but I think you could have given a half unit last night and if you get another cycle that runs like yesterdays and have to shoot the same situation again I would try that and monitor.
Click to expand...

That's exactly what I was thinking. My thoughts are this: when she is at 300/350 that is where she is and she's probably not getting much higher. But when she's at 180 and rising, she is headed up to 300 and fast. So my new thinking is why not dose the same? Within 2 hours, when the insulin hits, her numbers will be the exact same in both scenarios. It's taken me several bad cycles to realize this.
 
Re: Josie 4/3 & 4/4

Catannc said:
Sorry about typos, I am on my phone.

I would like to look at your last week of cycles on your ss whenever you can update it, I think we can do some work on your doses and get this moving, especially since you seem to be able to adjust schedule to shoot a needed
Click to expand...

OK, thanks! I will get that updated tonight!
 
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