jose's numbers

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jose and tracy

jose and tracy

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Good Morning
it took me half a dozen pokes, but jose is @ 199 @ 8:30 am. i will retest @ 9:30. how much of a climb should i see to indicate she needs a shot? i didn't not get another read on her last night. what is my plan for the rest of the day - with a shot and without? thanks again. i usually work saturdays, but think i will/can stay home today.

carl, i hope you enjoyed your ribeye & i assume that yeuling(?) is beer, & denise, i think you said you were going to have some suds or vino, i had a vodka tonic with a splash of yellow rockstar. jose stuck with the usual water.
 
You can test in 20 minutes if you haven't feed in the last hour or so. If over 200 and climbing, I would only give 1/2 unit. If she ate, I would wait at least 1.5 hours after eating to test again.

Under 200 after a full night of no insulin indicates she had way too much insulin on board. 1/2 unit may not be enough but you can always raise next shot. Better too high for a day than too low for a moment.

We are big fans of beans getting treats along with cats- liquid or otherwise!
 
Chocolate works too (for the human, not the cat).

Try to test about 6 hours after the shot. This is the nadir, or lowest point in the cycke. Most cats hit it at +6 but it can be earlier or later. This gives us some idea how low Jose goes in between shots. We usually reccomend a minium of 3 tests a day-before each shot, to make sure it's safe, and at lwast once somewhere in the middle of the cycle. For those of us who work, that may involve setting an alarm and getting up in the middle..of the night for a quick poke, but it's worth it to know our baby is safe.
 
jose was at 208 at 9:20. she is eating and i will give her one unit. & test in six hours. i can't believe i had two successful pokes this morning.
 
She's not climbing very fast which is good. I'm glad you are going with .5u and are able to be home with her today to check on her.

Today would be a good day to test at +3, +6 & +9. That will tell us how well the .5u does for her.
 
i'm confused again - i thought too much insulin caused the numbers to drop & that is why she dropped to below 50 yesterday.

also, i put a ketone stick in her urine & it was normal.
 
Glad you got a ketone test.

Too much insulin does cause a drop in overall numbers. Too little can cause a rise in overall numbers. Ideal is a nice shootable preshot, then a slow curve down into lower but safe numbers and a slow rise back up to a shootable preshot.

That's what we want. It will take some tests/data to figure out how to get there.

Does that make sense?
 
12:20 & she is at 215.

i am working on the spreadsheet, but admit to being technologically challenged, so it is slow going.
 
So the 12:20 is about 3 hours after the 9:30 shot, right? You can put that number in the +3 box. This morning you waited past the amps to shoot - the notes off to the side explain it fine.

She is "surfing" or staying in the same range of numbers for a few hours. (Meters have a variance of +/-20% so your 199 and 208 are basically the same number.) This is fine. We might expect a lower number at some point near nadir, but with her wild ride yesterday and the large dose lasting so long, anything could happen today. It is all just data and at some point, it will help us figure things out.
 
carl, i hope you enjoyed your ribeye & i assume that yeuling(?) is beer?
Click to expand...

The ribeye was absolutely perfect (I am a master steak griller!) seasoned just right and medium rare. Yum! And yes, that's my favorite beer and is made by America's oldest brewery, made in Pottsville PA since 1829! (which is weird because I'd never heard of it until I tried it about 3 years ago). YumYum!

These numbers you are seeing are really good today. Good job getting the tests! with the lower dose you shouldn't have to worry about numbers that get scary low like yesterday.

Carl
 
i only have three test strips left and can't get to town until tomorrow. i am thinking her tonights pmps and the morning amps are the most critical, so do i skip the six hour or nine hour today?

sorry, things here have been compounded because her sister went out yesterday @ noon and hasn't come back. she hasn't spent a night out in ten years. so i don't want to leave just in case she shows up.

carl, i love still bloody steak - some people have called me disgusting. we sell tenderloin @ our store that can be cut with a fork - SO GOOD!

re: jose's diet. she had a can of fancy feast this morning - it lasted a few hours. but i shouldn't give her more until the pm shot, correct?
 
Tracy,
They can eat at any time of day except for the two hours leading up to shot time. You want the shot time BG check to not be influenced by the food she has eaten recently. You can feed and test at any other time of the day, but it is important to make a note of when she eats on your spreadsheet in the "comments" section to the right.
The reason for that is, say you fed her at +5 and then tested her at +6. The number that you got at +6 might be a little higher because she had just eaten. If we look over to the comments and see "fed 1/2 can at +5", we'd say, "okay that makes sense, she's a little higher cuz she just ate." It would make the number make sense to us.

On the test strips. If you only have 3, then yes, you want to put two aside for her test at shot time tonight and tomorrow morning. That only leaves you with one spare.
This is sort of a Murphy's Law thing.... If I tell you "well, maybe just put it aside just in case either of the PS tests is wacky or the strip might not work quite right", then of course that won't happen and you'll just have saved it and not needed it. If I tell you, well, "go ahead and check her at +9," then you'll wake up tomorrow with one strip and it won't work right! :lol:

It depends on if you're a gambler. :smile: Probably the best thing to do is not test at +6 or +9, although I would love for you to be able to get the data. Why not save it, skip those tests, and check her at the nighttime shot time. That way, if her number is right on the line of "do I shoot or not" that gives you a spare strip to use in case you have to test her again a few minutes later to see if the number is rising or not.

Everybody agree with that?
And hoping to hear good news soon on Jose's sister...
Carl
 
Yes, I would save the strips for preshot numbers.

Unregulated diabetics can be literally starving as their bodies are not processing the food well. It won't hurt to feed her a little extra. And having food on board will help her pancreas. Lots of people here free feed - just divide the food into several meals. You can freeze it and let it thaw as they graze. Just put it up 2 hours before you plan to test.

Our Oliver was a 16 pound Maine Coon when diagnosed eating 2.5 - 3 cans of FF daily. But the time he was regulated, he was down to 13 pounds and 2 cans. Our civie Russian Blue eats 2 cans of day. Depends on activity level, ideal weight etc. There is a formula floating around. Someone can probably find it for you.

I am sorry to hear about your sister. Hope everything is well.
 
I love finding things!

Tracy, there are other complicated formulas about how much to feed. But here's a really simple one that I have used to control Bob's weight. Once upon a time, he was 22 lbs. On a small frame he was waaaay too fat. This time last year he weighed 18. When he was diagnosed with diabetes in May, he was 13 pounds.....looked about right, except really sick looking. I didn't really worry about the weight loss, because he was porky pig looking. But he just looked like he was dying.....turns out he was. But it was the peeing buckets thing and severe dehydration that finally made me take him in to the vet.
That was the day I found out that cats could get diabetes. I had no clue before then. He was so bad off, a few days later he went to the ER and spent three days having his life saved. He was DKA, (diabetic ketoacidosis), and if I hadn't rushed him in that day, he most likely would have died. Today, he weighs 14 1/2 lbs, is no longer on insulin, and is the healthiest he has been in years. So that is Bob's tale.
Back to weight. The formula I used was 20 calories per pound of ideal body weight per day. That's it. The thing you need to figure out is what is Jose's ideal body weight. What do you or your vet think it would be best for him to weigh?
Once you know that it's easy.
With Bob, I was trying for 14 ibs. So, 14 x 20 = 280 calories. If I want him to gain a bit, I gave him a few more calories a day. If I wanted him to lose a bit, I fed him a little less. I used 250 a day to take it off, and 300 per day to put in on.

Of course, you can't be exactly exact with this. But it is a guideline to use and experiment with. Like Sue said, some of the equation is how active Jose is. If she's really active, she'd need a few more calories. If not, a few less.

If you look at the food charts in my signature, on the far right column it shows you how many calories are in a can of whatever food it is. Most of the FF classics run 70-100 calories per can. I used to grab cans, write the number of cals on the can lid, and then make "daily stacks" of cans that would total the number of calories I was aiming for.
Oh, FYI, Bob isn't a big fan of the whole "diet" thing. He'd eat a thousand cals a day if I let him!

Hope that helps!

Carl
 
Carl & Sue, thanks for the diet tips. once i get the diabetes that is my next goal, she currently weighs nearly 23lb! fat.fat.fat. that is why one of her nicknames is country. unfortunately, i will have to work tomorrow, so won't be able to do the 6 & 9 readings. i am off monday, though & will do it then. & also off wednesday. did i read earlier that someone would set their alarm & do the readings after the pms?

bob's story sounds similar to jose's. i had moved all of the food downstairs - i was a believer in multiple stations - so jose HAD to go downstairs to eat. she got down to 14lb. boy, i was proud! until i realized that her LB appeared to be full of cement. so when she ballooned back up, i just wrote it off to diabetes.
 
Yes, tests at night are good data. Some people set an alarm for 6 hours after the pm shot, get up and test and go back to sleep.

The problem will be that we are trying to get you on a good dose. That is easiest to do with at least preshot and some mid cycle numbers. Anything you can get will help.
 
thanks for everyone's patience today. yesterday i thought rowdy(jose's sister) would come back so was able to concentrate more on jose. i don't think rowdy is coming back so today has been mostly looking for her.

do i use the same rule of thumb tonight as this morning - 200 & .5u? & in the morning, since i will have two test strips left, do i space them as this morning & shoot if rising above 200? still .5u.

after she is regulated, will i be able to test & immediately shoot?

thanks again, this is an amazing forum.
 
Tracy,
tonight, yes, same plan. If over 200, .5u, if under, then no shot.
tomorrow morning, the same thing.

We wanted you to save the last strip in case either you had a "bad" one tonight or in the morning, so you could test again.

You don't have to use the last one to see if she is rising or not.

If at either time you get like a 190 or something close to 200, then you could wait 30 minutes and test her again using that spare strip, to see if in that time she came up above 200, then you could give her the shot. If something like that ever happens, you don't feed her during that waiting period. Once you get the 200, you can feed and give her the shot.

In the future, this will be easier. We are trying to make sure that come tomorrow morning, you have at least one test strip left until you can buy some more.

And don't give up on Rowdy. There is a woman on the board who was missing a kitty for almost a year. One day, he just came home. Hoping that Rowdy does the same thing, but a lot sooner than that!

Carl
 
Carl, thanks again for the handholding. if you knew how i keep backup of EVERYTHING you would know how disappointed i am that i ran out of strips. i never run out of ANYTHING. little OCD. not to worry, i am not a hoarder.

we are pretty sure rowdy has been lost to a local owl. two of our outdoor kitties have disappeared in the past several weeks as well. we thougt rowdy would be okay out in the day light and she is near 14lb. we are totally distraught. thanks for the positive words, though.
 
there will be no blood tonight. she will be having NONE of that, thank you. so i'm thinking give her .5u anyway,since she has been getting so much more in a twenty-four hour period?

is there such a thing as a cat that is a bad bleeder? sort of like people who have a hard time because there veins are hard to find?

& yes, i did waste a test strip. the blood looked good, but to no avail. i did put a little bit of vaseline on her ear & still lost it.
 
If the ear isn't bleeding it may be that the lancet is too small (25-27 gauge makes a nice hole) or the ear isn't warm enough. (you really need to get it VERY warm)
 
rice sock was used & the lancets are 26. i don't understand why i have such good luck with some pokes and bad luck with others. she has now gone into one of her hidey-holes. i can give her a shot in there, but not get a blood draw. jose is a very sweet girl - when she is getting what she wants. she is very aggressive and vicious when pushed. the vet won't touch her w/out anesthetic. sounds extreme, but she can be very scary.
 
ROWDY...get your fuzzy butt home, your family's worried. 3 years ago, Spike (civvie) was gone for 4 days but came strolling back in mid-afternoon on Thanksgiving day. He'd been trapped somewhere and evidently had taken a while to get out. He had several shallow cuts and was missing all the whiskers on one side and VERY hungry but other than that, he was OK. Don't give up!

Hugs,
 
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