Jocko doing the honeymoon dance once more

Discussion in 'Honeymooners / OTJ' started by Steve & Jock, Feb 12, 2010.

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  1. Steve & Jock

    Steve & Jock Member

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    Dec 29, 2009
    Yes, he's doing it again!

    (Jock has been on honeymoon once before, for a full month before he got fatty liver, and has approached it several times before.) Jock's been diabetic for 5 years and missed his original chances at remission probably because I did such a poor job with him originally before I found the FDMB.

    He's able to hold his blood sugar down (below 140) on his own now for about 24 hours, and it seems to be lengthening. He's getting the smallest dose I can give, equal to the zero-line on the syringe, of Levemir.

    I don't know if you guys all think this way or not, but my current philosophy on helping him is different from what I usually see here.

    Since his pancreas heals best when unstressed, I'm not trying to see how long he'll go without insulin. Quite the opposite. I'm trying to keep his blood sugar down under 130 all day and all night, even if he might be able to do it on his own.

    So this evening at +23 I tested him before dinner, saw 6.1 (=110). At (+24) I tested him again and got 6.1 again, which I took as evidence that his pancreas was working to clear that food spike.

    Rather than leaving him on his own to drift higher overnight, I just gave him another droplet (zero line) to help his pancreas out for the rest of the night. He's doing most of it himself, and this dose should not be enough to do him any harm, just helps out a bit.

    I will keep giving him droplets as long as he drifts above 100 on an empty stomach, even if he doesn't strictly need them, because I believe that will help him heal faster until he can take it on his own.

    Once he can stay below 100 on his own (which he did just fine on his last honeymoon), I'll quit the insulin droplets.

    Meanwhile he has a new sweater which he's very fond of, and he's very cuddly.

    Go Jocko!
     
  2. Michele and Peeps

    Michele and Peeps Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    Good luck to you and Jock!!!

    I'm glad that you are confident in what you are doing enough to be able to go your way. It seems to be that it is in Jock's best interests, with his history.

    I agree entirely with getting him to below 100's. My own Peeps has been hovering around 100 for a few weeks, but I also go against the grain - and not only free feed her, but free feed her dry foods. This is with doing a diet change about 2 weeks ago.

    Keep us updated please! This is looking like very good news :)
     
  3. Venita

    Venita Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    Congratulations Steve and Jock!! I like your approach, and because it feels good to you, go with it!!
     
  4. harryzmom

    harryzmom Member

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  5. Steve & Jock

    Steve & Jock Member

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    Dec 29, 2009
    Good idea, harryzmom, started adding Taurine to the food, thanks.

    Also re-read Kirsten's page, wow she''s good.

    And Jock's number at pre-shot is sliding a bit higher so he's up to a quarter-unit now, but still just once a day.
     
  6. harryzmom

    harryzmom Member

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    Another thought might be to use teeny weeny tiny doses of InsulinR as needed to directly address the spikes as you are using such small amts of the basal insulin. This way you're not getting high numbers / stress, but still giving the pancreas time to rise to the occasion. I've been dosing this way for about a month now and Harry is dropping consistently (after 2.5 years and multiple mistakes on my part -- over-trusting vet, overdosing, bad lantus). Can't imagine what it was like before life revolved around shots -- but am looking forward to it!

    I usually go to Kirsten's site first with questions -- German board really the forerunner in so many areas
     
  7. Alice and Tabby

    Alice and Tabby Member

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    Steve that's fantastic. You guys have worked long and hard.
     
  8. Carol & Yoshi

    Carol & Yoshi Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    Steve, you and Jock rock! Smart man ;-)
     
  9. Steve & Jock

    Steve & Jock Member

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    Dec 29, 2009
    Thanks for all the encouragement! Since I posted this, Jock has been up and down, but mostly well-behaved, on a small shot SID (every 24 hours). Small shot has varied between 0.1 and 0.25 units week-to-week.

    Latest news is that yesterday he was at 5.8 (106) at shot time (+24) and got 0.1 units.

    Today he was at 3.4 (61) at +24 shot time, and got no shot at all!

    So counting days starts today! I expect he'll still need a boost from time to time but he seems to want to go it alone today so there he goes!
     
  10. Steve & Jock

    Steve & Jock Member

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    Dec 29, 2009
    +36 8.7 (157) 0.1 units Levemir
     
  11. harryzmom

    harryzmom Member

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    157 doesn't seem that high under the circumstances ... maybe give him more time to adjust. ... or stretch out the 24 hrs between regularly... ?
     
  12. Steve & Jock

    Steve & Jock Member

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    Dec 29, 2009
    At the moment I don't shoot under 130, but over that he gets a little help, which lasts him 24-36 hours. When I used to give him more slack while he was getting close to honeymoon, he'd slip out of regulation.

    As he gets closer to remission, his range gets closer and closer to normal 'cat' blood sugar. 157 isn't all that high for a diabetic but it's way high for a normal cat, and once he gets over about 130 he's unable to bring it back down on his own (so far). So he needs a little help by then.

    I like your idea of using "R" for those little helper bits but I don't think I could do it with Jock even if I had it. His reaction to "N" is to be very sensitive to it, more than to his Levemir, and I can't shoot less than 0.1 units. The amount of "N" (or likely R) I'd have to give him to bring him down from 157 would be too small to measure.

    Cheers,
    Steve
     
  13. harryzmom

    harryzmom Member

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    "R" would probably not be appropriate in this situation, you know your kitty's reactions better than anyone, and we all have our ways of measuring -- every kitty's different: i got my kitties' mom off the insulin at the last by drawing Lantus into the syringe then pushing it all out -- what was left in the needle we called a "drop". When we stopped altogether her numbers fluctuated, going up to about 180, but we held out and within a coupla days she was done. For Jocko, with such low doses, you know he's feeling fine and he's healing. So as far as he's concerned he's doing great. It would just be nice to have him all the way off --

    Such fun, Dianne
     
  14. Steve & Jock

    Steve & Jock Member

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    Yeah, exactly, Dianne! Thanks for the good wishes!

    I am sure if Jock didn't have such a horribly scarred pancreas (and probably liver) he'd be off it by now entirely. He obviously is making as much of his own insulin as he can, and there's nothing stopping him from healing. He is just low on beta cells.

    It's my fault, I'm sure, from the 8 months it took me to get smart after his first diagnosis plus the month or two it took me to 'get it' after I found the FDMB, I am sure we did a lot of damage to the poor guy's pancreas. He has been through DKA, hypo, and fatty liver, remission and relapse, and he's now nearly 14 and probably just not young enough to bounce all the way back. But he's game to try!

    Steve
     
  15. harryzmom

    harryzmom Member

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    I too missed that golden opportunity and have a scarred and battered kitty ;) -- thankfully the word is getting out about the dangers of dry food etc. and even vets are somewhat getting their act together. So many 'if only's' --

    "Beta Cells Unite"

    Dianne
     
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