? Jett PMPS 197

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PJ Brown

Member Since 2016
I didn't have Internet all day today, so I couldn't update Jett's spreadsheet. Luckily, I was able to access Facebook and post for help there. Thank you, Mary Ann, for your quick responses and great observations!

Because of the downward trend in the BG tests today, I didn't know what to do with a BG of 197 and have re-tested at +1 and Jett's BG is 343. He did sneak a bit of Weruva canned by licking up his brother's leftovers that was pretty watered down. I will test again in one hour to see if I need to give a shot this evening. I hate that he is going to be "hi" again in the morning without a shot tonight.

Thanks for your help! What a roller coaster! Post from yesterday: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/jett-amps-592.170617/#post-1862018

Patti + Jett
 
Patti's post from FB:

I have had internet issues all day and cannot post on the FD message board. I need your help. Jett's PMPS is 197. Should I give him a shot? He gets 2.5 units twice a day. His AMPS was 592, +4 was 358, +6 was 273. If anyone can get on FDMB, you probably can find a recent post from yesterday from me and can see Jett's spreadsheet. Thanks for your help!

In case Patti can't update the spreadsheet the summary for today is:

AMPS 592
+4 358
+6 273
PMBG 197
+13 343 (some food influence)
+14 to come
 
Thank you, Mary Ann. Jett's spreadsheet is updated now. I hope you can see it. I will post a new test in 20 minutes.
 
I'm not sure why you wouldn't shoot with a pmps of 343. I don't know the whole story, apparently, but there's nothing I can see that would be a reason to skip his shot. The longer you wait, the higher he's going to go.

By the way, this is +13 rather than +1 - you always count hours from the last shot.
 
I'm not sure why you wouldn't shoot with a pmps of 343. I don't know the whole story, apparently, but there's nothing I can see that would be a reason to skip his shot. The longer you wait, the higher he's going to go.

By the way, this is +13 rather than +1 - you always count hours from the last shot.


The PMBG was 197 which was the lowest number of the cycle. Since Patti didn't know if the number was still dropping, it was advised to retest, but Jett had eaten something since the PMBG. I had suggested waiting the full 2 hours to get a non food influenced number. Patti says she can adjust the shot times for tomorrow with no problem.


ETA At the point I made the suggestion Patti could not get on FDMB and the conversation was being done on FB and I did not want to advise a shot with no one around to help in case Jett decided to dive since I can't stay on much longer. She has since managed to get back on the forum.
 
He's so high now I don't think it matters if some of it is food or not. Was it a full meal? If you feel better waiting 2 hours, and it doesn't matter for your schedule, then go for it! I'm just thinking you don't "HAVE" to wait that long because even at 197 he was probably high enough, and you can see now that he's not dropping.

But your comfort zone matters, Patti, so if it helps you to wait, then that's cool.

There's a great post on "Shooting a dropping number" that might be helpful to read, even if one isn't following the Tight Reg guidelines, it helps to understand "how it works" when one shoots a dropping number. This is listed in the "Where Can I Find?" thread.
Tight Regulation Protocol: Myths Debunked (&Bouncing)
..........Post #6 Shooting a dropping number
..........Post #17 Increasing the dose during a bounce
..........Post #37 Combining elements of Start Low Go Slow & Tight Regulation Protocol


These are the guidelines specific to those following Start Low Go Slow:How to handle a lower than normal preshot number:

In the beginning we suggest following the guidelines in the FDMB's FAQ Q4.4:
Q4.4. My cat's pre-shot level was way below the usual value. Should I give the injection?
A4.4. There's no hard and fast rule, but if you don't have data on how your cat responds to insulin, here are some general guidelines.
  • Below 150 mg/dl (8.3 mmol/L), don't give insulin.
  • Between 150 and 200 (8.3-11.1 mmol/L), you have three options: a.) give nothing; b.) give a token dose (10-25% of the usual dose); c.) feed as usual, test in a couple of hours, and make a decision based on that value.
  • Above 200 (11.1 mmol/L) but below the cat's normal pre-shot value, a reduced dose might be wise.
  • In all cases, if you are reducing or eliminating insulin, it's wise to check for ketones in the urine.
  • Above the normal pre-shot value, give the usual dose, but if the pre-shot value is consistently elevated, it's a good idea to schedule a full glucose curve to see whether a change in dose or insulin is appropriate. In most cases, the target "peak" value should not be below 100 mg/dl (5.6 mmol/L), and for some cats it might be higher.
Keep in mind these are general guidelines, and they should be personalized to your own cat's response to insulin. If your experience is that your cat does not became hypoglycemic with a dose which is close to her usual, then personal experience should be your guide.

With experience, you may find that lowering these thresholds may work well for your cat. When you have reached that stage, the following guidelines are suggested for Lantus and Levemir users following the Start Low Go Slow approach:

If the preshot number is far below usual preshot numbers:
  • Do you need to stay on schedule? Then skip the shot.
  • Do you have some flexibility with your schedule? Then stalling to wait for the number to rise might be a good option. Don't feed, retest after 30-60 minutes, and decide if the number is shootable.
  • Repeat until the cat either reaches a number at which you are comfortable shooting, or enough time has passed that skipping the shot is necessary.
If the preshot number is near usual preshot numbers:
  • Look at your data to see what numbers you have shot in the past and decide what would be a safe, shootable number for your cat. Don't feed. Stall until kitty reaches the preshot number you've decided on and then shoot.
We usually don't suggest or recommend shooting a preshot number less than 90 mg/dL when following the SLGS Method. Remember that with SLGS, your goal is to achieve flat numbers that are greater than 90, so there is no need to push a cat into numbers lower than that.
 
He's so high now I don't think it matters if some of it is food or not. Was it a full meal? If you feel better waiting 2 hours, and it doesn't matter for your schedule, then go for it! I'm just thinking you don't "HAVE" to wait that long because even at 197 he was probably high enough, and you can see now that he's not dropping.

But your comfort zone matters, Patti, so if it helps you to wait, then that's cool.

There's a great post on "Shooting a dropping number" that might be helpful to read, even if one isn't following the Tight Reg guidelines, it helps to understand "how it works" when one shoots a dropping number. This is listed in the "Where Can I Find?" thread.
Tight Regulation Protocol: Myths Debunked (&Bouncing)
..........Post #6 Shooting a dropping number
..........Post #17 Increasing the dose during a bounce
..........Post #37 Combining elements of Start Low Go Slow & Tight Regulation Protocol​
These are the guidelines specific to those following Start Low Go Slow:How to handle a lower than normal preshot number:
Thank you, Julie!!!! This information is so helpful, and I had no idea how to handle the 197, since I thought it was borderline.

Patti + Jett
 
Good luck with the cycle Patti. As Julie said with the much higher reading at +13 you could have shot. I have seen my two zoom up after food so I was being perhaps overly cautious. I apologize for keeping you the extra hour before shooting. :bighug:
 
Most of the time when the insulin is wearing off and a cat's blood sugar is starting to climb, it will zoom up fast. It will take a couple of hours for the insulin from the new shot to begin to work (onset) and during that time the blood sugar is likely still going up.

No apology needed, Mary Ann! You're erring on the side of caution with someone else's cat - that's a good thing! @Tuxedo Mom
 
Good luck with the cycle Patti. As Julie said with the much higher reading at +13 you could have shot. I have seen my two zoom up after food so I was being perhaps overly cautious. I apologize for keeping you the extra hour before shooting. :bighug:
Mary Ann - I am so thankful for you helping me tonight. I will always stay up an extra hour if it means peace of mind in doing the right thing for Jett. The "hi" #s on his spreadsheet scare me, so I don't want to do anything to make him worse. I am so grateful for your help and quick observations with his situation and #s!
 
Hi Patti.

I'm glad you were able to get some help on FB when you couldn't access FDMB. Maryann is very experienced and always very generous with her time and expertise.

When you have a chance, can you please make a small change on your SS? Since you didn't shoot until you got the 473, that becomes your PMPS. You can put all three of those readings (197, 343 and 473) in the PMPS cell if you stack it. To do that, I would do the following: click on the PMPS cell with the 197 and add "@+12". Then put a space and type "343@+13", another space and type "473 @+14" Then, with the cell highlighted, click on the icon up in the taskbar that looks like two vertical lines and an arrow pointing right (it's above the N column). You will see a box with three choices. You want to click on the one in the middle, that looks like a U-turn arrow. That will wrap the text so that it all fits in the cell. You can look at Harvey's SS to see some cells that are wrapped and how they look. I use extra spaces when I need to get thing on separate lines. If you have trouble with it, let me know and I can walk you through it.

Great job getting some midcycle tests in today. That's really important data to have.
 
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