? Jett AMPS 592

Status
Not open for further replies.
PJ Brown

PJ Brown

Member Since 2016
Hi Everyone,

I am not sure what to do about Jett's hi numbers. I lost my husband to cancer the day before Thanksgiving and have been really struggling with deep sadness and I know Jett is grieving too. You can see on the spreadsheet that the switch to 2.5 units twice per day resulted in more even #s for awhile, but now it's almost always "hi" AM and PM. Do I need to take him to the vet for more testing?

His appetite is very good. In fact, he seems to be wanting food all the time. Unfortunately, the vet put him on Royal Canin Glycobalance back in October and I was shocked at the carb % when I looked it up. It is higher than the Weruva canned he was previously eating. She also put him on RC Glyco dry food, which really disappointed me, but I've stopped the dry food this past week to see if that would bring the BG #s down and it hasn't :( Has anyone had success with the RC Glycobalance food? Any kitty in remission on this food?

Thanks for your help!!

Patti + Jett
 
Patti, I'm so sorry for your loss. I know hard it is to lose loved ones and at this time of year it's unbearable.

I would move to a low carb food. I also think you need to get some mid cycle tests at a minimum whenever possible as Jett could possibly be dropping and then bouncing if it's not the food causing these high numbers.

:bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
Hi Patti
I am very sorry for your loss. It must be very overwhelming for you both.

I think you have found the cause of the problem and that is high carb food. Did the Vet say why he choose that food? You are right to stop the kibble it is the worst thing for diabetic cats. Would you consider get some fancy feast for a week and see if that helps lower Jett's numbers?
 
Linda and Scooter & Jack said:
Hi Patti
I am very sorry for your loss. It must be very overwhelming for you both.

I think you have found the cause of the problem and that is high carb food. Did the Vet say why he choose that food? You are right to stop the kibble it is the worst thing for diabetic cats. Would you consider get some fancy feast for a week and see if that helps lower Jett's numbers?
Click to expand...
Thank you, Linda. The Royal Canin Glycobalance is prescription food for diabetic cats. I looked for Fancy Feast at PetSmart yesterday and there were so many flavors and I didn't find a "classic" label, which seemed to be what I remembered was low carb. What do you feed your kitty?

Thanks!
Patti
 
Yes, you want the pate style and classics. I used turkey and giblets, chicken and liver, chicken although that one contains fish. Take a look at the food charts on lisapierson.org or the newer tanyascrf. Helen doesn't list the carbs on all her foods. The ff gravy ones and slices are very high carb. I'd get a few cans to have on hand when he drops under 50.
 
downloadfile.jpg
Here is what you are looking for. I find visual most helpful. I am switching from this because it is too high in phosphorus from Gizmo due to his ckd.
 
I'm so sorry about your husband. I see you've gotten some good advice. I hope the switch to low carb food helps bring Jett's numbers down. Sending prayers.
 
Hi Patti - I think it's time to do a curve. Looking at Jett's numbers, I see one of two situations. (A) he's getting too much insulin, diving low mid cycle and bouncing. (B) His dose is too low for the food he's eating. How do we tell whether it's scenario A or B - we get some mid cycle tests. If you could sprinkle some tests from +4 to +7 in there or do a curve, and get the odd test before you go to bed, we'd be able to give you a much better answer as to what to do next with his dose.

For what it's worth, I agree you should eventually go back to the Weruva. I have yet to see a cat do better on the Gycobalance until they got rid of it and went to low carb food. However, do NOT go back to the Weruva until you can get more mid cycle tests. If he's overdosed now, then going to low carb food would be a real risk of hypo for him.
 
Any more current lab work? If not, it might be time for a full blood work up and a vetty check.

Tagging @Marje and Gracie to have a look at the T4 measurement from 07/2015 that is on the SS. It was the only thing that jumped out at me.

Yes, the BG numbers are way too high.

:bighug: Grief is a hard thing to work through, not only for us humans but for our fur baby's. Much love.

Wish you were closer, I would give you the case of FF I have so I could justify switching over immediately.
 
PJ Brown said:
Thank you, Linda. The Royal Canin Glycobalance is prescription food for diabetic cats. I looked for Fancy Feast at PetSmart yesterday and there were so many flavors and I didn't find a "classic" label, which seemed to be what I remembered was low carb. What do you feed your kitty?

Thanks!
Patti
Click to expand...
Patti I feed friskies pate because one of my sugar kitties wont eat fancy feast.
I really want you to think about what Wendy is telling you about a curve. It really is the best way to see what is going on for Jett.
Wendy has guided me in many curves and food changes and she helped me with my Scooter when he dived from HI to the 20's in one day when he came off kibble. You can check his SS below on my signature. He is over the bridge now but lived off the juice for quite a while until cancer got him.
 
Patti,
My heart goes out to you, truly. Losing a loved one is the hardest thing ever. Losing a loved one around the holidays makes it even harder. I just lost my mom on Dec. 3. Please accept my heartfelt condolences. I know there are no words that can make the grief easier to bear, but please accept this cyber :bighug: and know that people care.

I see you've already gotten some good advice here. If you need anything more, please ask.
 
Hi Patti.

I'm glad to see you post. I'm sorry you are going through so much sadness at this time of year. I can't imagine the pain of losing one's spouse, and you were dealing with that and Jett's FD diagnosis simultaneously. :bighug:

The list previously mentioned of foods is a good one. Here's the link. You want to feed something that is under 10% carbs. I don't know anyone that has had success feeding a "prescription" food for diabetic cats. Quite the opposite, in fact. I will never understand why vets insist on pushing them. I know they aren't all out for the money.

Get those extra tests in and post as often as you can, and we'll help you get Jett back into some better numbers. We're here for you!:bighug::bighug:
 
Thank you so much for helping me and Jett! I will get the FF cans tomorrow and do a curve. I wanted to update everyone that I just tested Jett and his BG +7 is 135 :nailbiting: so I guess I need to be testing in 30 minute intervals for the next few hours. Is that right?

Thanks!
Patti + Jett
 
Well, I was writing 'thank you' notes and missed the +8 test. +9 test was 162. I am wondering what # he should be at his PM shot in order to shoot the 2.5 units.

He was hungry, so I fed him Weruva canned. I am nervous about his pancreatitis episode in October. Does changing food trigger pancreatitis?

Thank you!
Patti + Jett
 
PJ Brown said:
what # he should be at his PM shot in order to shoot the 2.5 units.
Click to expand...
It depends on your comfort level and ability to monitor tonight. You have shot full dose into the mid 100's before. It'll be interesting to see where he ends up at PMPS.
PJ Brown said:
He was hungry, so I fed him Weruva canned. I am nervous about his pancreatitis episode in October. Does changing food trigger pancreatitis?
Click to expand...
Which Weruva are you feeding? I haven't seen food changes trigger pancreatitis. It seems that the causes of pancreatitis in cats aren't well known. Food allergies may play a role.
 
PJ Brown said:
Well, I was writing 'thank you' notes and missed the +8 test. +9 test was 162. I am wondering what # he should be at his PM shot in order to shoot the 2.5 units.

He was hungry, so I fed him Weruva canned. I am nervous about his pancreatitis episode in October. Does changing food trigger pancreatitis?

Thank you!
Patti + Jett
Click to expand...
I have two kitties with pancreatitis and Wendy is right it is not very well known. I feed them both watered down versions of friskies pate and they get famotidine once a day. If it is a bad situation usually my Vet will prescribe prednisone for a short period. Also b12 shots have helped as well. Food allergies are often the cause. I want to stress that neither of these kitties is diabetic.
 
Patti

My very deepest condolences in the loss of your husband. I cannot imagine a more devastating loss; many prayers for you at this difficult time.

I looked at Jett's labs. I am surprised your vet did not advise you to have him ret end in a few months as his liver values are elevated, his precision PL is up, and it appears he could have chronic kidney disease as his creatinine and BUN are elevated and his urine specific gravity is less than 1.030. His phosphorus is higher than it should be. I know it is in the normal range but that range includes kittens whose P levels are high due to developing bone. Jett's P level should be closer to 4.5 and no more than 5 if he does, in fact, have CKD. There are a few reasons why creatinine can be elevated and specific gravity low but unless he is a really big cat with a lot of muscle, it would surprise me if it is something other than CKD.

The elevated liver values could be linked to the elevated Precision PL which is an indicator of pancreatitis. The definitive test is specfPL which is run by IDEXX or Texas A&M University. IDEXX also does an SDMA test which will pretty definiteively tell you if he has CKD.

I think it is worth it to have his labs done again and ask your vet if he has an IDEXX account as the SDMA is included as part of a senior panel.

His thyroid is low but he's not hypothyroid on this test. It is unusual for a cat to be hypothyroid unless they have had radiation for hyperthyroidism and too much thyroid was destroyed. Often the thyroid can be affected by other concurrent diseases.

Please let me know if you have questions. :bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
Thank you! Marje, Linda and Wendy - The vet gave me a $3,000+ estimate for more tests. I couldn't decide on which ones I should do. I asked about acro and cushing's and she said "those are rare." Jett's PMPS test was 387, so I gave him 2.5 units and fed Weruva Fowl Ball canned. I also gave him 100 ml of subq fluids. I hope that helps him feel better.

Thank you!
Patti + Jett
 
PJ Brown said:
I asked about acro and cushing's and she said "those are rare."
Click to expand...
One in four diabetic cats has acromegaly. This is relatively new research in the last couple of years. Not all vets are up on this. Cushings is also more common than what people used to think, though less common than acromegaly. I am surprised on the quote for more tests, that's huge! I wonder what was included in that.
 
PJ Brown said:
Thank you! Marje, Linda and Wendy - The vet gave me a $3,000+ estimate for more tests. I couldn't decide on which ones I should do. I asked about acro and cushing's and she said "those are rare." Jett's PMPS test was 387, so I gave him 2.5 units and fed Weruva Fowl Ball canned. I also gave him 100 ml of subq fluids. I hope that helps him feel better.

Thank you!
Patti + Jett
Click to expand...
Wow.....what tests does she want to do for $3000? That is really high. The tests for acro and IAA aren't much, really. A senior blood panel should cost mid one hundred; an ultrasound between $200-$400.
 
PJ Brown said:
Thank you! Marje, Linda and Wendy - The vet gave me a $3,000+ estimate for more tests. I couldn't decide on which ones I should do. I asked about acro and cushing's and she said "those are rare." Jett's PMPS test was 387, so I gave him 2.5 units and fed Weruva Fowl Ball canned. I also gave him 100 ml of subq fluids. I hope that helps him feel better.

Thank you!
Patti + Jett
Click to expand...
Holy smokes that's expensive!
I also wonder what tests she wants to do. Start with the senior panel and then acro and IAA as suggested.
 
Sending hugs, its good to see you posting again! I've been wondering how you and Jett were doing:bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug:
The Fowl Ball is one Gussie liked from Weruva too..and it is truly Low carb..
Big hugs to you and scritches to Jett..:bighug::bighug:
 
Hi Everyone - I have been feeding Jett Weruva Fowl Ball last night and today and his +7 BG is 89 :nailbiting: Oh boy! I will test again in 30 minutes to see which direction it is going. I wish I had tested more earlier today, but I'm just in a fog of grief. Thanks for your help!

Patti + Jett
 
Re-tested just now and he is 63, so his #s are declining from 89 less than an hour ago. My questions: When do I apply honey/give high carb food?
Thanks!
Patti + Jett
 
Hi Patti. That 63 is safe, but I'd check again, as Madrona suggested, at +9.

Congrats on the reduction! So tonight you'll shoot 2.25. Great job getting those tests in. I am not surprised to see Jett go low. Some of us have been suspecting that this could be happening mid-cycle, and the high numbers at PS are the result of a bounce. Keep getting those extra tests in, and we'll get this figured out!

BTW, can you please take down the 911? You have eyes on your condo now, and the 911 means an emergency. I know it scared you, but it's really okay. :bighug:
 
Tricia Cinco(GA) & Harvey said:
Hi Patti. That 63 is safe, but I'd check again, as Madrona suggested, at +9.

Congrats on the reduction! So tonight you'll shoot 2.25. Great job getting those tests in. I am not surprised to see Jett go low. Some of us have been suspecting that this could be happening mid-cycle, and the high numbers at PS are the result of a bounce. Keep getting those extra tests in, and we'll get this figured out!
Click to expand...
Thank you for your help! +8 was 63, so no change from 30 minutes ago, which to me means that he isn't out of the woods for going lower. He is sleeping in a sunny window, so I can't really monitor for symptoms, so I will test again in 30 minutes. How do I shoot 2.25? Are your syringes in .25 increments?
 
BG +10 test was 166. I'm now worried about a normal reading at PMPS and not giving a shot. Does anyone give a small dose instead of zero? I had a vet suggest this to me to reduce the bouncing. Does anyone do this?
 
Wendy&Neko said:
A reduced dose will actually increase the bounce. But if you are worried about staying up and night and cannot monitor, it is OK to do.
Click to expand...
Thanks, Wendy. In the past, I have stayed up until I could see his #s increasing, so I guess my plan is NOT to give a shot if he is under 200 and test until I can see his #s increasing tonight. Is 200 the right number? I will post again with an update around 9:00Pm Central Time.
 
I think if you don't shoot you don't have to stay up and monitor, since the depot isn't likely to take him too low without an additional shot. As you get more data you can shoot at lower numbers, but as it is 200 may be a good number for you (I'll defer to Wendy's experience).
 
By the way, good catch on those lower numbers today, and getting Jett up to a safe level. You might want to keep track of how much of what food you fed. I added those notes to my Remarks on the SS, and it helped me figure out what food would work for handling lower numbers with Neko. And made seeing those lower numbers easier on me.
PJ Brown said:
Is 200 the right number?
Click to expand...
200 is the number we suggest to newbies, but you are not new any more. On this forum, we suggest people post for help and do not feed if they see a number below 150. However if 150 is out of your comfort zone or you cannot monitor, then decide what number you would feel OK about shooting.When you shoot lower numbers, the cycles are typically a lot flatter.
PJ Brown said:
No doubt he is waiting for his next test/shot. I wonder if he feels like he needs it.
Click to expand...
I remember when I first noticed Neko purring for her shot. It's wonderful when you realize they know you are helping them. Makes this all worth while. :)
 
Last edited:
PJ Brown said:
Thank you! I didn't get a test at +2 last night. Jett's AMPS is 592 this morning :(
Click to expand...

Sorry Jett was up again this morning. :bighug::bighug::bighug:

She may be bouncing from those lower numbers yesterday, but given that she dives quite dramatically, it might be a good idea if you are about to get a midcyle test, in fact if you can and you are about I would make that part of Jett's regular routine, just in case she is getting up to some midcycle shenanigans.

Just a note on house keeping to stop the threads getting too long,

do you think you could start a new thread/condo for Jett today, and link this thread in that first post, with her amps and any further tests you get in, you will get more visits that way as folk often don't go back to an old condo:):bighug:
 
Patti can't get on the forum right now and is posting on FDMB FB page.

"
I have had internet issues all day and cannot post on the FD message board. I need your help. Jett's PMPS is 197. Should I give him a shot? He gets 2.5 units twice a day. His AMPS was 592, +4 was 358, +6 was 273. If anyone can get on FDMB, you probably can find a recent post from yesterday from me and can see Jett's spreadsheet. Thanks for your help!"

I have asked her to hold off on food and retest in 1/2 hour and see where Jett is going. My thought is to either skip or give a partial dose depedning on where Jett's next reading is. Other suggestions would be appreciated.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/fel...=notif&notif_t=like&notif_id=1483586052382252



"
 
BUMP

Patti is waiting another hour to retest since Jett ate a bit of food after the first test. She can shoot the 2 hours late if the numbers warrant it but I can't be around for long after that, so if anyone can help out it would be appreciated. With Jett prone to doing some diving it would be best that Patti have some one available if she ends up shooting.
 
Thank you, Mary! I am back online now and will post his re-test in 10 minutes. I saw Gill's note just now about linking conversations to a new thread, but I do not know how to do this.

Patti + Jett
 
Wonderful!!! Glad to see that you were finally able to get on. You can start a new thread and use the "?" icon to get more eyes on this. Just post the information from your FB posts and ask for dosing advice.

Hope that made sense?
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top