Lydia & Sid & Jake(GA)
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Any suggestions as to why he might read so high in the mornings?
Jake AMPS 399 - suggestions?
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Roni and Moonie
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This is the "dawn phenomena" where the bg rises in the morning--Not to worry. It is something we all experience..
Maybe Sienne can give you the technical reasons..Hope Jake goes down!
Maybe Sienne can give you the technical reasons..Hope Jake goes down!
Lol Roni!!
The body goes through natural rhythms. In the morning, as a means of preparing the body for the activities of the day, there is a release of certain naturally occurring hormones, including cortisol. Cortisol is a steroid, one of the effects of which is to raise BG levels. It's one of the reasons that AMPS is often the last number to come down.
You can read more about the dawn phenomenon in the link.
The body goes through natural rhythms. In the morning, as a means of preparing the body for the activities of the day, there is a release of certain naturally occurring hormones, including cortisol. Cortisol is a steroid, one of the effects of which is to raise BG levels. It's one of the reasons that AMPS is often the last number to come down.
You can read more about the dawn phenomenon in the link.
Larry and Kitties
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Interesting that the referenced site says not ever body experiences it and that more research is required on this for animal.
My Bailey (but not my other three on Lantus) experiences a similar high AM PS. After a couple of years of this I find that I can reduce the higher AM PS by giving a slightly higher PM dose. IN my case it is a0.5 units higher.
My Bailey (but not my other three on Lantus) experiences a similar high AM PS. After a couple of years of this I find that I can reduce the higher AM PS by giving a slightly higher PM dose. IN my case it is a0.5 units higher.
Lydia & Sid & Jake(GA)
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Wow, how interesting. I had never heard of this before but it makes sense.
Should I ever so slightly increase the PM dose? Maybe .25 to start.
If this makes any sense - I 've been giving his 1.5 dose where the plunger rests at the very top of the 1.5 line. I could move the plunger a bit to where it rests on the bottom of the 1.5 line for the PM dose and see how he does with that.
Should I ever so slightly increase the PM dose? Maybe .25 to start.
If this makes any sense - I 've been giving his 1.5 dose where the plunger rests at the very top of the 1.5 line. I could move the plunger a bit to where it rests on the bottom of the 1.5 line for the PM dose and see how he does with that.
Larry - could you attach your SS so we could see exactly what you're talking about and how it effects numbers?
Lydia: do NOT increase your PM dose. There are other explanations beyond dawn phenomenon that can explain a higher AM number. I was simply replying to Roni's request for more info. In Jake's case, you need more PM data in order to have greater insight into AM numbers. In fact, you need more spot checks overall to have a better understanding of Jake's numbers. Lantus dosing relies on mid-cycle data. For example, your AMPS on 4/25 may have been the result of low numbers the previous evening. It is entirely possible that Jake had a number in the low blues or greens since many cats have lower numbers in the PM cycle. The same could have easily been true for last night. Without the data there is no way to know this nor is there a safe way to make decisions about dosing. Please do not raise your dose until you can get more spot checks.
In addition, feeding the A/D may be raising numbers. There are a lot of variables in play here. The best way to sort out why the numbers look the way they do is to get more data.
Lydia: do NOT increase your PM dose. There are other explanations beyond dawn phenomenon that can explain a higher AM number. I was simply replying to Roni's request for more info. In Jake's case, you need more PM data in order to have greater insight into AM numbers. In fact, you need more spot checks overall to have a better understanding of Jake's numbers. Lantus dosing relies on mid-cycle data. For example, your AMPS on 4/25 may have been the result of low numbers the previous evening. It is entirely possible that Jake had a number in the low blues or greens since many cats have lower numbers in the PM cycle. The same could have easily been true for last night. Without the data there is no way to know this nor is there a safe way to make decisions about dosing. Please do not raise your dose until you can get more spot checks.
In addition, feeding the A/D may be raising numbers. There are a lot of variables in play here. The best way to sort out why the numbers look the way they do is to get more data.
Lydia & Sid & Jake(GA)
Very Active Member
You are right. I won't increase until I get more spot checks in. I have stopped feeding the A/D by the way. I believe that may have affected the readings.
I am currently only feeding him the Newman's Own turkey flavor and some homemade chicken that I cook for him. His treats are freeze dried chicken. I feed my other cats Friskies Turkey&Giblets or Mixed Grill and it is very hard to keep Jake from having a couple nibbles on their food.
This last weekend I was not able to do more spot checks because of fundraising activities for my cat rescue projects and then I work 11 hrs every day so it is impossible during the work week. BUT, this weekend on Saturday May 1, I am going to try to get a check every 2-3 hours between the AMPS and PMPS.
I am currently only feeding him the Newman's Own turkey flavor and some homemade chicken that I cook for him. His treats are freeze dried chicken. I feed my other cats Friskies Turkey&Giblets or Mixed Grill and it is very hard to keep Jake from having a couple nibbles on their food.
This last weekend I was not able to do more spot checks because of fundraising activities for my cat rescue projects and then I work 11 hrs every day so it is impossible during the work week. BUT, this weekend on Saturday May 1, I am going to try to get a check every 2-3 hours between the AMPS and PMPS.
Here are a couple of thoughts...
Depending on how much time there is between when you get up and Jake's AMPS, if you can get a +11, along with an AMPS, that is another piece of information that can be very important especially since you are gone for a long period of time. It sounds like you get home right before shot time. If you're home earlier, get an "in the door" test. Otherwise, I would get in as many PM checks as you can.
Is there a reason you don't want Jake to have the Friskies? Those 2 varieties are 7 and 8% carb, respectively. The Newman's Own may be lower in carbs, but the Friskies is by no means bad. Since you've said you want to get Jake to eat, the Friskies is fine unless he's highly carb sensitive.
Depending on how much time there is between when you get up and Jake's AMPS, if you can get a +11, along with an AMPS, that is another piece of information that can be very important especially since you are gone for a long period of time. It sounds like you get home right before shot time. If you're home earlier, get an "in the door" test. Otherwise, I would get in as many PM checks as you can.
Is there a reason you don't want Jake to have the Friskies? Those 2 varieties are 7 and 8% carb, respectively. The Newman's Own may be lower in carbs, but the Friskies is by no means bad. Since you've said you want to get Jake to eat, the Friskies is fine unless he's highly carb sensitive.
D and Noisy
Very Active Member
Hi Larry, On several occasions you have posted about differing your AM/PM shots and something else out of the norm from what we do in LL, I wish I could remember what it was, maybe someone else can. I did not immediately discount your opinion -- I wanted to see numbers that backed up what you were saying but have had no luck finding any. If you have your numbers somewhere I would like to see them.
Hi Lydia, Overall, in looking at SS, I see a kitty who should follow the usual path we take here. Don't mess with switching AM/PM doses.
I'm not going to attach any sure reason, not enough data for that, but there are several possibilities -- be back later with an illustration of them.
Hi Lydia, Overall, in looking at SS, I see a kitty who should follow the usual path we take here. Don't mess with switching AM/PM doses.
I'm not going to attach any sure reason, not enough data for that, but there are several possibilities -- be back later with an illustration of them.
Lydia & Sid & Jake(GA)
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I suppose Jake could have the Friskies too. There is really no reason I feed him the N.O. other than the fact the texture is creamier and seemed easier to syringe feed.
I'm glad to know the Friskies isn't bad for him because I know he nibbles on the other cats' food occasionally. I know those two flavors are good based on the food chart so I'm glad all my cats like those flavors the best.
You are right about the timing. I walk in the door at about 6 pm and the first thing I do is feed all the cats and check Jake's level and syringe feed him. Sunday (yesterday) I was able to get a +11 that was 200 and then the PMPS was 204. Tonight I could do a spot check every couple of hours.
I'm glad to know the Friskies isn't bad for him because I know he nibbles on the other cats' food occasionally. I know those two flavors are good based on the food chart so I'm glad all my cats like those flavors the best.
You are right about the timing. I walk in the door at about 6 pm and the first thing I do is feed all the cats and check Jake's level and syringe feed him. Sunday (yesterday) I was able to get a +11 that was 200 and then the PMPS was 204. Tonight I could do a spot check every couple of hours.
D and Noisy
Very Active Member
I hope this diagram makes a lil' sense :roll: I didn't have the time to do it quite right.
The nth of it is, I can see, where the squiggly green lines are, where he "could" have dropped low causing the higher numbers that followed. The best way to know for sure is to test.
The liver will release counter regulatory hormones (sugar) in cases where a cat drops fast or visits lower numbers that he is not used to. We affectionately call this Liver Training School (LTS). The liver will learn to not react so quickly after he gets used to lower numbers. And then food can be a part of this too.
The nth of it is, I can see, where the squiggly green lines are, where he "could" have dropped low causing the higher numbers that followed. The best way to know for sure is to test.
The liver will release counter regulatory hormones (sugar) in cases where a cat drops fast or visits lower numbers that he is not used to. We affectionately call this Liver Training School (LTS). The liver will learn to not react so quickly after he gets used to lower numbers. And then food can be a part of this too.
Lydia & Sid & Jake(GA)
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Thank you for the diagrams! I will do more evening testing this week to get a clearer idea of his levels.
CD and BigMac
Very Active Member
OMG, I love the liver training school diagrams, hahaha!! What a great visual! LMAO!
Best of luck with Jake, I hope he shows some really pretty numbers soon.
Best of luck with Jake, I hope he shows some really pretty numbers soon.
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